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The Anti-Science movement
DrafterX Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,628
I have an enormous schwanzstucker... Mellow
DrMaddVibe Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,675
DrafterX wrote:
I have an enormous schwanzstucker... Mellow



Ok, that's just teasing Vic.
victor809 Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
^ just sit quietly and breathe deep.

I'm sure there's some chance the cyanide vial won't open.
HockeyDad Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,243
DrafterX wrote:
I have an enormous schwanzstucker... Mellow



Bastian Schweinsteiger is a good midfielder.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,675
HockeyDad wrote:
Bastian Schweinsteiger is a good midfielder.



That's prolly giving Vic a boner!
tailgater Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Is that some Georgetown rubby code?


No, that would be the foreskin rule...
tailgater Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=antiscience-beliefs-jeopardize-us-democracy

A long read, I only expect a couple of you to actually have the capability to read past the first page.

I'm sure some of you will just post something stupid after reading the title.

Either way, an interesting article, goes into the history of the current anti-science movement as well as what the author considers to be a few factors in it's current rise. Additionally, it discusses the impact that an inability to identify "fact" has on policy and democracy.


Apart from insulting the masses before they even have an opportunity to digest the article, what is your point here?
I breezed through it and found some accurate information along with some fluff that has little to do with the subject matter.
His writing style is not easy to enjoy. He jumps from subject to subject. This works fine for a page or two, but 5 1/2" pages of this makes you want to stop reading. Of course, this could be the fact that it's barely interesting at all, and most of it is obvious while only some of it is important.

If I missed this let me know, but I found it ironic that I saw no mention of Obama ending funding to NASA.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,675
tailgater wrote:
If I missed this let me know, but I found it ironic that I saw no mention of Obama ending funding to NASA.



The Muslim Brotherhood is not pleased!horse
victor809 Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Apart from insulting the masses before they even have an opportunity to digest the article, what is your point here?
I breezed through it and found some accurate information along with some fluff that has little to do with the subject matter.
His writing style is not easy to enjoy. He jumps from subject to subject. This works fine for a page or two, but 5 1/2" pages of this makes you want to stop reading. Of course, this could be the fact that it's barely interesting at all, and most of it is obvious while only some of it is important.

If I missed this let me know, but I found it ironic that I saw no mention of Obama ending funding to NASA.


The part I found interesting is what I identified.

I thought the roots of the anti-science movement were interesting, the fact that the Dems started the damn ball rolling, as well as the different factors the author tried to identify as causing resurgence (although uncited, so they're more anecdotal than anything). I was not actually trying to make a stance, just thought it would be an interesting read for some individuals. Others, I expected wouldn't read it and would just make some inane comments in big colored font.

I'm not surprised that NASA didn't come up, because there hasn't really been any controversy over it (there should be, but not in a science/antiscience manner). Obama defunded it, and that IS an issue in my mind. No one wanted it defunded because it was a hotbutton issue though, we're just apparently too poor for a rocket. :(

The other thing that's interesting is the "retirement" so to speak of any individuals with an actual science understanding from political life. This is a real problem in my mind and likely will continue to have a negative impact on our nation. This ties directly in to the issue the author peripherally addressed regarding the philosophy of "every viewpoint is equally valid".

Ah well, if you didn't enjoy it there isn't much I can do about it. At least you read the whole thing. :)
tailgater Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
The part I found interesting is what I identified.

I thought the roots of the anti-science movement were interesting, the fact that the Dems started the damn ball rolling, as well as the different factors the author tried to identify as causing resurgence (although uncited, so they're more anecdotal than anything). I was not actually trying to make a stance, just thought it would be an interesting read for some individuals. Others, I expected wouldn't read it and would just make some inane comments in big colored font.

I'm not surprised that NASA didn't come up, because there hasn't really been any controversy over it (there should be, but not in a science/antiscience manner). Obama defunded it, and that IS an issue in my mind. No one wanted it defunded because it was a hotbutton issue though, we're just apparently too poor for a rocket. :(

The other thing that's interesting is the "retirement" so to speak of any individuals with an actual science understanding from political life. This is a real problem in my mind and likely will continue to have a negative impact on our nation. This ties directly in to the issue the author peripherally addressed regarding the philosophy of "every viewpoint is equally valid".

Ah well, if you didn't enjoy it there isn't much I can do about it. At least you read the whole thing. :)


Truth be told, I think Congress should be forced to master basic math before they even consider worrying about science.

victor809 Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Truth be told, I think Congress should be forced to master basic math before they even consider worrying about science.



Don't disagree, but it goes beyond just congress. The reporters, the general public, every idiot with a blog....

There is a lack of critical thinking capability, and this leads to a demonization of concepts which require critical thinking.
victor809 Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
A case in point:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/23/world/europe/italy-quake-scientists-guilty/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

I remember reading about the trial a few days ago. Italian scientists were found guilty of manslaughter, because their predictions found it unlikely that a major earthquake would hit.

What boggles my mind here is that the statement "Unlikely" doesn't mean impossible. And the earthquake actually occurring does NOT mean that it wasn't still unlikely. If a person wins the lottery, it doesn't mean that the chances weren't still low. Just means that despite the low odds of occurrence, it still did in fact occur.

Anyway... farking idiots everywhere.
tailgater Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Don't disagree, but it goes beyond just congress. The reporters, the general public, every idiot with a blog....

There is a lack of critical thinking capability, and this leads to a demonization of concepts which require critical thinking.



There is some truth in your comments, but for every "demonization" of a concept there are those who over-react and jump to firm conclusions too readily.

We all know your favorite topic (apart from how gorgeous your rugby friends tell you you are) is Climate Change a.k.a. Global Warming.
You read scientific studies that show man-made influence and you extrapolate that we should therefore respond in full force immediately. I suggest that man's impact is tempered by the fact that our influence affects a relatively small percentage of greenhouse gas, and therefore the world would be best served by taking a long term approach that could help, rather than hinder, our economy.

There is a wide chasm between the likes of Rush Limbaugh and the policies of this administration. And the truth lies in the middle.

Some light reading.
http://www.justfacts.com/globalwarming.asp

victor809 Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
There is some truth in your comments, but for every "demonization" of a concept there are those who over-react and jump to firm conclusions too readily.

this also counts as a lack of critical thinking.


Quote:

We all know your favorite topic (apart from how gorgeous your rugby friends tell you you are) is Climate Change a.k.a. Global Warming.
You read scientific studies that show man-made influence and you extrapolate that we should therefore respond in full force immediately. I suggest that man's impact is tempered by the fact that our influence affects a relatively small percentage of greenhouse gas, and therefore the world would be best served by taking a long term approach that could help, rather than hinder, our economy.

There is a wide chasm between the likes of Rush Limbaugh and the policies of this administration. And the truth lies in the middle.

Some light reading.
http://www.justfacts.com/globalwarming.asp



While I like talking about climate change, I don't think we need to do anything. I've said over and over again that I don't actually support any response to our impact on the planet. I don't care. I find it funny, but I'm not lying when I say I don't care if the planet doesn't make it past another 50 years. I don't care what policy people actually choose, as long as they are honest with themselves about why they're doing it (and a semi-decent understanding of why they are doing it).

tailgater Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Don't care if the world lives past 50 years?
Then you are indeed an enigma.
How can one be so interested in science, and fight tooth and nail about the merits of anthropogenic global warming, yet have no worries on the long term outcome?

I don't buy it.
You can't have passion for your convictions while maintaining apathy on the results.

Unless you're engaged in some kind of bizarre experiment on these forums.
In which case, may I suggest choosing TW as your subject. Now THERE'S an enigma.

victor809 Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Don't care if the world lives past 50 years?
Then you are indeed an enigma.
How can one be so interested in science, and fight tooth and nail about the merits of anthropogenic global warming, yet have no worries on the long term outcome?

I don't buy it.
You can't have passion for your convictions while maintaining apathy on the results.

Unless you're engaged in some kind of bizarre experiment on these forums.
In which case, may I suggest choosing TW as your subject. Now THERE'S an enigma.



I have never supported an environmental policy.

I'll fight over the merits of the science, because I find the decision making process some people use to be insultingly stupid. The scientific fact is ALWAYS important, whether it has a direct impact on you or not.

I have said again and again that I don't personally care about the health and well-being of the planet past my life. I don't have children, I don't want children and I don't care about children. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop believing the scientific studies behind climate change. It doesn't change actual facts.

If someone managed to prove the existence of your god tomorrow, it wouldn't personally impact me (not a christian, not interested in being a christian even if the christian god exists), but if someone started saying they didn't believe in the existence of god because it was a tax scheme by the church I'd argue with them.

I get pissed off when people decide not to believe science, simply because it makes their life less convenient. Be honest, say "hey, yeah... scienctific studies are suggesting that what I'm doing is going to have a long term negative impact on the environment. But... well, my kids an **** and it's more effort for me to stop doing it than the marginal benefit he'll receive weighted by the value I associate with him.... so I'm not going to stop."
DrafterX Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,628
Think
so you're gonna sit back and judge others for ignoring things you've decided ignore...... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
Think
so you're gonna sit back and judge others for ignoring things you've decided ignore...... Mellow

Brick wall Brick wall
While the outcomes may be the same, "ignoring" and "being willfully ignorant" are two separate actions. One is a valid value judgement which can be made and re-evaluated based on updated information. The other is just being stupid for stupid's sake. Are you telling me you are unable to tell the difference?
tailgater Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
I have never supported an environmental policy.

I'll fight over the merits of the science, because I find the decision making process some people use to be insultingly stupid. The scientific fact is ALWAYS important, whether it has a direct impact on you or not.



And yet you smoke.

BuckyB93 Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,257
I don't believe in the existence of god because it's a tax scheme by the church but maybe this is a topic for a different thread.
victor809 Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
And yet you smoke.



Knowingly. I understand the actual risk I undertake to myself (moderate) and to the people around me (minimal, but I don't like them anyway). I have weighted that against the value and made a conscious decision to smoke. I don't simply say "anti-smoking studies are bs!" (although the second-hand studies are bs... meta-studies performed using non statistically significant numbers of individuals in conditions well beyond that of an average second-hand smoke exposure).
DrafterX Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,628
victor809 wrote:
Brick wall Brick wall
While the outcomes may be the same, "ignoring" and "being willfully ignorant" are two separate actions. One is a valid value judgement which can be made and re-evaluated based on updated information. The other is just being stupid for stupid's sake. Are you telling me you are unable to tell the difference?



I think I understand.... you don't give a sh^t but it's ok.. if we decide not to give a sh^t we're idiots.... Think
victor809 Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
I think I understand.... you don't give a sh^t but it's ok.. if we decide not to give a sh^t we're idiots.... Think


There's that willful ignorance again. It's almost like you purposely don't want to understand the words as they're typed on the screen. Huh.... where have I seen that before...
DrafterX Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,628
just giving you a little chit..... Laugh
BuckyB93 Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,257
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-twUCEfzrDk
tailgater Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Knowingly. I understand the actual risk I undertake to myself (moderate) and to the people around me (minimal, but I don't like them anyway). I have weighted that against the value and made a conscious decision to smoke. I don't simply say "anti-smoking studies are bs!" (although the second-hand studies are bs... meta-studies performed using non statistically significant numbers of individuals in conditions well beyond that of an average second-hand smoke exposure).


I have found that most of the serious "doubters" don't dismiss man made climate change altogether. They may underestimate the impact, but so too have many over-estimated the concern. You too quickly assume to know how and why people say the things they do.
Some are dumb. Others are apathetic. And many would label your supposed learned viewpoint and your contradicting apathy regarding legislation as being insanely naive or even ignorant.

Me? Outside an invigorating debate, if I were to care enough about the immediate issue then I'd probably be apathetic as well...
(insert ironic smiley here)
HockeyDad Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,243
victor809 wrote:
I have never supported an environmental policy.

I'll fight over the merits of the science, because I find the decision making process some people use to be insultingly stupid. The scientific fact is ALWAYS important, whether it has a direct impact on you or not.

I have said again and again that I don't personally care about the health and well-being of the planet past my life. I don't have children, I don't want children and I don't care about children. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop believing the scientific studies behind climate change. It doesn't change actual facts.

If someone managed to prove the existence of your god tomorrow, it wouldn't personally impact me (not a christian, not interested in being a christian even if the christian god exists), but if someone started saying they didn't believe in the existence of god because it was a tax scheme by the church I'd argue with them.

I get pissed off when people decide not to believe science, simply because it makes their life less convenient. Be honest, say "hey, yeah... scienctific studies are suggesting that what I'm doing is going to have a long term negative impact on the environment. But... well, my kids an **** and it's more effort for me to stop doing it than the marginal benefit he'll receive weighted by the value I associate with him.... so I'm not going to stop."




Settle down, Poindexter!
bloody spaniard Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
HockeyDad wrote:
Settle down, Poindexter!



LOL!!

I love it when Victor, Bucky, and Jtokash(sp?) adjourn to their special secret public club & talk dirty in a language only understandable to them.

Sarcasm
BuckyB93 Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,257
It comes with the Platnium membership.
tailgater Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
BuckyB93 wrote:
It comes with the Platnium member.

Scared
BuckyB93 Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,257
It's a Noble member having a Vickers Hardness of about 80 ksi in pure form.
ZRX1200 Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,700
Maybe if so much of the "science" wasn't a fraud you'd have more people agreeing with you Victor.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,675
ZRX1200 wrote:
Maybe if so much of the "science" wasn't a fraud you'd have more people agreeing with you Victor.



Thanks Capt. Obvious.Frying pan
bloody spaniard Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
BuckyB93 wrote:
It comes with the Platnium membership.



Think

Uhhhhhm, mebbee but nooooooooo that's not it... more like Big Bang Theory Club (live geek action heroes need apply - wimmins optional)Cool


BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Frying pan
Brewha Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,228
Tisk, tisk, Victor.

I was interested in your post up until your lengthy argument with the local idiot. Really, how can I take you seriously when you fall for his prattle? Sorry, but page one of the thread goes to DMV. Who is the greater fool, the fool or he who would argue with him?
DrafterX Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,628
Think Think
tailgater Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:


Who is the greater fool, the fool or he who would argue with him?


Oh yeah???
bloody spaniard Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
I swear I read that in a fortune cookie once.
teedubbya Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
unrelated but hey blood.... drafter just admitted to enjoying prostate exams in the cujo thread. he is such a fungi
DrafterX Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,628
I did not.... you sick basssard..!! Mad
teedubbya Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
I did not.... you sick basssard..!! Mad


teedubbya
you really enjoy a good fingerwave don't you?

DrafterX it makes me feel superior and stuff.....

teedubbya how do you get the insurance company to pay for it so frequently?

DrafterX
HMMM smiley icon

teedubbya

This is what you agreed to liking and making you feel superior and stuff

The finger wave
There are several tests that are routinely carried out to assess prostate health, but the most common and notorious is the digital rectal exam or DRE and every fifty year old man is advised to have one at least once a year.
The “digital” in "digital rectal exam" doesn’t refer to the fancy computer equipment your doctor will be using, but to the fact that s/he will palpate the prostate with one of his or her digits (most likely his or her index finger) to check for size, symmetry (a healthy prostate consists of two equal halves, separated by a narrow groove), lumps, firmness (which should be similar to that of the tip of your nose) and texture.
Here’s what happens during a typical DRE:
• You’ll be asked to stand with your feet apart and bend forward so that your arms or elbows rest on a desk or examination couch. Alternatively, the exam may be conducted while you’re lying on your side with your knees bent towards the chest.
• The doctor will wear a surgical rubber glove with a heavily lubricated finger and will warn you when s/he is about to insert it into your rectum. Expect to feel a little pressure, but only mild discomfort.
• The finger will be inserted at a downward angle as if pointing to your bellybutton and the doctor will give your sphincter a few second to relax.
• The doctor will move his/her finger in a circular motion while gently feeling the prostate.
• The doctor will probably tell you when s/he is about to retract the finger and use a tissue to wipe the lubricant off your anus and buttocks.
• Expect the whole procedure to take about a minute or less.
Have a look at this video clip in which Doctor Gerald Chodak takes you through what you can expect during a prostate exam:

video clip excluded because this is a family site

DrafterX My doctor puts on such good mood music I can't refuse. It is sort of barbaric yet exciting at the same time
DrafterX Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,628
Not talking Not talking no way man.... it didn't go down like that...... Not talking
teedubbya Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
ZRX1200 Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,700
^ teedubbya that is a carbon copy of your "hot letter" submission..........
victor809 Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Brewha wrote:
Tisk, tisk, Victor.

I was interested in your post up until your lengthy argument with the local idiot. Really, how can I take you seriously when you fall for his prattle? Sorry, but page one of the thread goes to DMV. Who is the greater fool, the fool or he who would argue with him?


Meh, I considered it a very zen experience, to argue with an idiot without actually reading a word he typed. If it actually looked like an argument then I must have done it right. :)
ZRX1200 Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,700
Haha.......sorry that was for #91
bloody spaniard Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
d'oh!

I don't know, Drafter. TW got the posts plus I heard things. It doesn't look good. Next time, don't ask don't tell.
Got a good lawyer?

Looks like we lost another one to the other team, TW.Sad
DrafterX Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,628
How the hell was I suppose to know what a fingerwave was..?? At least it wasn't some gay-homo thing..... Mellow

Think Think
bloody spaniard Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
DrafterX wrote:
How the hell was I suppose to know what a fingerwave was..?? At least it wasn't some gay-homo thing..... Mellow
Think Think



Next time play dumb or simply don't post until after you google...
teedubbya Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
www.snopes.com//drafterisaprostatewhore

we got the cbid link and snopes....

just let it go drafter. we don't judge
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