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Last post 11 years ago by Brewha. 294 replies replies.
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Wasn't Even A Couple Hours After the Sandy Hook Shooting...
dpnewell Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
..before the gun grabbers and anti-self defense freaks where using this horrid tragedy to further their political agenda. Protests in front of the White House, jumping on TV to promulgate their agenda. Even the President eluded to gun control in his "condolence" speech. Whores and bast-ards, every last one of them. How about some respect and sympathy for the victims and their families, and time for them to morn, before using dead children for your personal political gain? You have no idea what contempt I feel for these leaches.
HockeyDad Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
I guess it can be looked at both ways....

The children were martyrs in the cause that will eventually lead to banning and eliminating of firearms in the USA.

The children were martyrs in the defense of 2nd amendment rights.
jimbud Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 12-18-2009
Posts: 3,998
The reporters continue to describe how bravely the principal acted in running toward the sound of gunfire to try to help. I agree she was brave, but it is too bad she wasn't carrying as she ran to help. Connecticut is in for a lot of changes.... The current president of the New Haven Bar Association was arrested in the days after the Colorado movie shooting when he attended a movie and patrons noticed he was carrying. Totally trumped up charges about failing to obey officers when they arrived. Charges were finally dropped last week. http://www.ctpost.com/news/article/Charges-dropped-against-lawyer-who-brought-gun-to-4087230.php
Brewha Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,207
dpnewell wrote:
..before the gun grabbers and anti-self defense freaks where using this horrid tragedy to further their political agenda. Protests in front of the White House, jumping on TV to promulgate their agenda. Even the President eluded to gun control in his "condolence" speech. Whores and bast-ards, every last one of them. How about some respect and sympathy for the victims and their families, and time for them to morn, before using dead children for your personal political gain? You have no idea what contempt I feel for these leaches.


You? Contempt? What a shock.

Twenty dead children and your angry because people want to keep guns with thirty rounds magazines that fire six round a second out of the hands of nut jobs?

Dude, you're twisted.

DrafterX Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
Brewha wrote:
that fire six round a second
ram27bat




pretty sure this guy didn't have anything capable of that..... automatic weapons can be had but licenses are expensive and you prolly get put on a list or somethin... Mellow
deadeyedick Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 03-13-2003
Posts: 17,177
Brewha wrote:
You? Contempt? What a shock.

Twenty dead children and your angry because people want to keep guns with thirty rounds magazines that fire six round a second out of the hands of nut jobs?

Dude, you're twisted.



Agree completely with the OP. Ban 30 round clips and the next depraved bastid will just reload 6 round clips. Whats twisted is thinking this can be stopped by keeping guns out of the hands of responsible people.

DED
DrafterX Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
true... true...

before we go writing and passing more laws we should look at how many laws he broke.... once this guy made up his mind to do this the only thing that could have stopped him was an armed guard at the school... more laws won't help... Mellow
Brewha Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,207
deadeyedick wrote:
Agree completely with the OP. Ban 30 round clips and the next depraved bastid will just reload 6 round clips. Whats twisted is thinking this can be stopped by keeping guns out of the hands of responsible people.

DED

Well I guess those kids died protecting your right as a responsible person to own semi-automatic weapons.


Btw, lots of countrys stop these things from happening. And I would call them responsible people, more than us.
dpnewell Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
Brewha wrote:
You? Contempt? What a shock.

Twenty dead children and your angry because people want to keep guns with thirty rounds magazines that fire six round a second out of the hands of nut jobs?

Dude, you're twisted.



Talking about twisting things out of context and jumping to conclusions.... Oh, that's right, you're Liberal. I really shouldn't expect any less.

Never said this didn't need debating, but THIS is not the time. Give the poor families time to grieve before you use their children's blood for your political agenda.
victor809 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
While I think the original post is whiny and a bit of an exaggeration of reality, Brew, you're just as guilty of that.

Everyone gets to say "IF ONLY!" here....

Anti gun people are screaming "if only guns were outlawed, the criminal would only have stabbed one child!!!" (not sure how the anti-gun movement can call that a moral victory, sacrificing one child so 20 are saved? Only a victory if you're going be sheer body counts).
Gun people are screaming "If only every principal were armed!!! So many fewer would have been killed!!!" (again, not sure how that's really a victory, but even then, you have to add to that total any additional gun accidents that may happen at schools)...

The reality is that either fake situation is an unknown and BOTH sides are simply making **** up to suit their own purposes. The REALITY is that if you make it difficult to kill people (either by restricting access to guns, or by making sure armed principles are everywhere) then those interested in killing people will adapt. No guns? Hell, block all the windows and doors and torch the building killing 100 kids. All the principles are armed? Hell, block all the windows and doors and gas the entire school, killing 300 kids and 20 admins. Schools too tough to get to because all the principles are armed? Put some spike strips in front of a bus and board it after it runs off the road, kill all the kids one by one as you go down the aisle.

So before any of you pro-gun or anti-gun idiots decide to make up some retarded situation where your specific cause saves the day, realize that this PARTICULAR situation may not occur in your fantasy land, but millions of other situations, some better, some much much worse, will occur. You simply don't know if making it too difficult to go on a shooting rampage won't simply inspire a potential mass-murderer to get more creative and much more deadly.
Brewha Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,207
dpnewell wrote:
Talking about twisting things out of context and jumping to conclusions.... Oh, that's right, you're Liberal. I really shouldn't expect any less.

Never said this didn't need debating, but THIS is not the time. Give the poor families time to grieve before you use their children's blood for your political agenda.

Guess I should have read your post through a straw, the conservative way.

I was put out by the shameless exploitation and profiteering of the network having a hour long special so we could all immerse ourselves in the details. But vultures gotta eat too.

When I see this kind of thing I want it stopped - now. We need better laws, and it is the correct response. Al'a Brady Bill.
Brewha Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,207
victor809 wrote:
While I think the original post is whiny and a bit of an exaggeration of reality, Brew, you're just as guilty of that.

You are just jealous of my eloquent and succinct writing style.
But I am glad that you stopped to voice your agreement with my points.
BlueDude Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 01-26-2012
Posts: 1,308
Sick individuals will always find a method to carry out their madness.

This was an act of pure evil . . . there is no way to legislate that.
Brewha Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,207
BlueDude wrote:
Sick individuals will always find a method to carry out their madness.

This was an act of pure evil . . . there is no way to legislate that.

So why regulate any weapon?

Responsible people should have access to grenades. Good for killing boars and fire ants . . . .
HockeyDad Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
Brewha wrote:
We need better laws, and it is the correct response. Al'a Brady Bill.



I'm gonna go out on a limb here but, I'm pretty sure the shooter broke a bunch of laws already.
HockeyDad Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,213
Brewha wrote:
So why regulate any weapon?

Responsible people should have access to grenades. Good for killing boars and fire ants . . . .



A grenade hit on a boar would prolly just piss it off.
DadZilla3 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
Anybody know yet what motivated this lunatic to go on the rampage?
fishinguitarman Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,154
Brewha wrote:
You? Contempt? What a shock.

Twenty dead children and your angry because people want to keep guns with thirty rounds magazines that fire six round a second out of the hands of nut jobs?

Dude, you're twisted.






You just made his point....and he's right...
Mrs.Tank Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 02-15-2005
Posts: 10,047
I understand that the shooter tried to buy a gun several days ago and was rejected. He then used his mother's guns. So I guess if someone wants to go on a shooting rampage, they'll get a gun any way they can. Gun control worked. He was not sold a gun. He chose an alternative source.
dpnewell Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
victor809 wrote:
While I think the original post is whiny and a bit of an exaggeration of reality, Brew, you're just as guilty of that.

Everyone gets to say "IF ONLY!" here....

Anti gun people are screaming "if only guns were outlawed, the criminal would only have stabbed one child!!!" (not sure how the anti-gun movement can call that a moral victory, sacrificing one child so 20 are saved? Only a victory if you're going be sheer body counts).
Gun people are screaming "If only every principal were armed!!! So many fewer would have been killed!!!" (again, not sure how that's really a victory, but even then, you have to add to that total any additional gun accidents that may happen at schools)...

The reality is that either fake situation is an unknown and BOTH sides are simply making **** up to suit their own purposes. The REALITY is that if you make it difficult to kill people (either by restricting access to guns, or by making sure armed principles are everywhere) then those interested in killing people will adapt. No guns? Hell, block all the windows and doors and torch the building killing 100 kids. All the principles are armed? Hell, block all the windows and doors and gas the entire school, killing 300 kids and 20 admins. Schools too tough to get to because all the principles are armed? Put some spike strips in front of a bus and board it after it runs off the road, kill all the kids one by one as you go down the aisle.

So before any of you pro-gun or anti-gun idiots decide to make up some retarded situation where your specific cause saves the day, realize that this PARTICULAR situation may not occur in your fantasy land, but millions of other situations, some better, some much much worse, will occur. You simply don't know if making it too difficult to go on a shooting rampage won't simply inspire a potential mass-murderer to get more creative and much more deadly.


Oh my gosh, Victor, I agree 100% with your post. No, it’s not possible, is it? I think I need to go grab a full body cigar and some Scotch as I contemplate the ramifications of this strange phenomenon.


Side note. Folks need to do a search on “mass school killings with edged weapons”. Proof that a determined lunatic can murder many innocents with nothing but a knife, and it’s happened more times then folks think.

Still shaking my head at what kind of evil could perpetrate such heinous acts.
tailgater Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I pray for the families affected by this heinous crime.

victor809 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I'm scared too dpnwell.... I'm scared too.

Hold me....
dpnewell Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
DadZilla3 wrote:
Anybody know yet what motivated this lunatic to go on the rampage?


His mother is dead, he is dead, and his brother claims to not have spoken with him for 2 years. Unless there is a social media posting we don't yet know about, or some kind of journal, anything the "experts" come up with will be pure speculation.
dpnewell Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
victor809 wrote:
I'm scared too dpnwell.... I'm scared too.

Hold me....


Sorry dude, but I just clipped a Dark Antano, poured a couple fingers of Scotch (neat of course), and am heading out to the smoke room to reflect. There may be someone on the General Forum with a hot tub that will be willing to hold you. Look for something like "Old Man Soup".
Mrs.Tank Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 02-15-2005
Posts: 10,047
One of the articles mentioned an altercation at the school on Thursday (the day before) by the shooter and several of the victims. They mentioned that one of the people shot might be able to shed light on what this is about once they have recovered a bit.

Abrignac Online
#26 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,391
This is a senseless and tragic act which has caused much pain for many. Unfortunately, it will also be a political talking point used by those on both sides.
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,601
We should outlaw meth and heroin too.... Mellow
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
BlueDude

i have no realistic idea how to stop these mass killings.

but i can't remember a mass killing where a bow and arrow was used, or a knife, or a baseball bat, always a gun is involved
dubleuhb Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 03-20-2011
Posts: 11,350
Always ? McViegh didn't need a gun. The dude in Cali that used his car to run into a crowd of people, no gun there.

Besides this was not the point dpnewell was eluding to. It was the shamelessness of those trying to use a horrific tragedy to advance their cause.
dubleuhb Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 03-20-2011
Posts: 11,350
http://news.yahoo.com/knife-wielding-man-injures-22-children-china-064458804.html
dpnewell Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
RICKAMAVEN wrote:
BlueDude

i have no realistic idea how to stop these mass killings.

but i can't remember a mass killing where a bow and arrow was used, or a knife, or a baseball bat, always a gun is involved



Rick,
Here’s a short excerpt from an article written for the law enforcement community. Of course this article is from 2 years ago, so the numbers could be even higher.

Quote:
Of knife single mass murderers that are known to us, (11 at present), two in the USA, one in Germany, most have been in Asia, and most have targeted children in schools. Similar to the copycat active killer murders by firearms, the frightening factor with mass murder by edged weapons is that 25% of these occurred in a two-month period between March and May 2010, (China). Of the 11 mass murders by a single person using a knife known to us, there were 46 murdered, and 139 wounded. The average mass murder/attempt knife incident resulted in 16 casualties. In 92% of the cases, the specific weapon of choice was a knife. The remaining 8% was by a single actor with a meat cleaver who caused 9 murders and 12 wounded.


http://www.spartancops.com/edged-weapon-mass-murder/




I wonder why you haven’t heard of knife mass murders? Could it be that the MSM mentions these in passing, instead of providing 24 hours a day coverage for weeks on end, as they don’t advance their agenda?

Face it Rick. Just the fact that you, and many others have never heard of these mass knife killings, and believe that "always a gun is involved" proves that what you think about some issues has been manipulated and carefully molded by the media. I wonder what other “facts” that you hold to be true, and propagate on these boards, have been “programed” into you without your knowledge?
pdxstogieman Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
dpnewell wrote:
..before the gun grabbers and anti-self defense freaks where using this horrid tragedy to further their political agenda. Protests in front of the White House, jumping on TV to promulgate their agenda. Even the President eluded to gun control in his "condolence" speech. Whores and bast-ards, every last one of them. How about some respect and sympathy for the victims and their families, and time for them to morn, before using dead children for your personal political gain? You have no idea what contempt I feel for these leaches.



Why don't you just STFU and lay off using this as an opportunity for your own goddam agenda
pdxstogieman Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 10-04-2007
Posts: 5,219
Brewha wrote:
You? Contempt? What a shock.

Twenty dead children and your angry because people want to keep guns with thirty rounds magazines that fire six round a second out of the hands of nut jobs?

Dude, you're twisted.



Amen. +1000 on that
dpnewell Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
pdxstogieman wrote:

Why don't you just STFU and lay off using this as an opportunity for your own goddam agenda

Amen. +1000 on that


My agenda, eh? I never stated any agenda in the OP, yet both you and Brewha both jumped to your own conclusions and assumptions.

BTW, Brewha's response and your "+1000 agreement" prove my original point, even though you're too blind and biased to see it.
frankj1 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,290
HockeyDad wrote:
I guess it can be looked at both ways....

The children were martyrs in the cause that will eventually lead to banning and eliminating of firearms in the USA.

The children were martyrs in the defense of 2nd amendment rights.

sadly enough, the truest post yet.
frankj1 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,290
dpnewell wrote:
Sorry dude, but I just clipped a Dark Antano, poured a couple fingers of Scotch (neat of course), and am heading out to the smoke room to reflect. There may be someone on the General Forum with a hot tub that will be willing to hold you. Look for something like "Old Man Soup".

sorry, wrong place to look. all 3 old guys are straight.
rfenst Online
#37 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,473
When does the proper time to begin discussing the slaughter; and then gun control v. Second Amendment begin?
DadZilla3 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
RICKAMAVEN wrote:
i have no realistic idea how to stop these mass killings.

We might try cutting down on the 'safe' prescription drugs we're dosing kids with and maybe try some one-on-one and family counseling instead.

I don't know if prescription drugs were a factor in this latest tragedy but for example, both the Columbine shooters and the Batman theater shooter had been prescribed psychoactive drugs well before their mass killing sprees.

Drugs, prescription or otherwise, don't cure severe psychological problems. They only temporarily mask them.
Abrignac Online
#39 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,391
rfenst wrote:
When does the proper time to begin discussing the slaughter, gun control v. Second Amendment begin?



May be out on a limb here, but I'm thinking never.

More than a few gun owners haven't forgotten the pivotal role privately owned firearms played in the founding of our country. Seems that the pros feel as strong about preserving their 2nd amendment rights as the anti's feel about chipping them away.

I could be wrong.....
schusler Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 09-21-2010
Posts: 3,531
RICKAMAVEN wrote:

BlueDude

i have no realistic idea how to stop these mass killings.

but i can't remember a mass killing where a bow and arrow was used, or a knife, or a baseball bat, always a gun is involved


dpnewell wrote:
Rick,
Here’s a short excerpt from an article written for the law enforcement community. Of course this article is from 2 years ago, so the numbers could be even higher.




Quote:
Of knife single mass murderers that are known to us, (11 at present), two in the USA, one in Germany, most have been in Asia, and most have targeted children in schools. Similar to the copycat active killer murders by firearms, the frightening factor with mass murder by edged weapons is that 25% of these occurred in a two-month period between March and May 2010, (China). Of the 11 mass murders by a single person using a knife known to us, there were 46 murdered, and 139 wounded. The average mass murder/attempt knife incident resulted in 16 casualties. In 92% of the cases, the specific weapon of choice was a knife. The remaining 8% was by a single actor with a meat cleaver who caused 9 murders and 12 wounded.


http://www.spartancops.com/edged-weapon-mass-murder/




I wonder why you haven’t heard of knife mass murders? Could it be that the MSM mentions these in passing, instead of providing 24 hours a day coverage for weeks on end, as they don’t advance their agenda?

Face it Rick. Just the fact that you, and many others have never heard of these mass knife killings, and believe that "always a gun is involved" proves that what you think about some issues has been manipulated and carefully molded by the media. I wonder what other “facts” that you hold to be true, and propagate on these boards, have been “programed” into you without your knowledge?
rfenst Online
#41 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,473
DadZilla3 wrote:
We might try cutting down on the 'safe' prescription drugs we're dosing kids with and maybe try some one-on-one and family counseling instead.

I don't know if prescription drugs were a factor in this latest tragedy but for example, both the Columbine shooters and the Batman theater shooter had been prescribed psychoactive drugs well before their mass killing sprees.

Drugs, prescription or otherwise, don't cure severe psychological problems. They only temporarily mask them.


Geez, I though we might stop putting pickle-relish on hot dogs.
DadZilla3 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
rfenst wrote:
Geez, I though we might stop putting pickle-relish on hot dogs.

Good to see you take the issue so seriously.
frankj1 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,290
DadZilla3 wrote:
We might try cutting down on the 'safe' prescription drugs we're dosing kids with and maybe try some one-on-one and family counseling instead.

I don't know if prescription drugs were a factor in this latest tragedy but for example, both the Columbine shooters and the Batman theater shooter had been prescribed psychoactive drugs well before their mass killing sprees.

Drugs, prescription or otherwise, don't cure severe psychological problems. They only temporarily mask them.

I am reading frustration in your post, I may make it worse by pointing out a few things that I believe, but I hope not. The following may be incorrect, but here's how I see it.

First, there are no known "cures" for many of these illnesses, often the severity is not apparent until late teens/early adulthood. Note the surprise of many, not all, who know the attacker.

These kids are quietly and secretly way beyond responding to a little family counseling, quite possibly there are chemical and inherited causes for their illnesses. Combinations of chemical and behavioral therapies may be the best bet currently even though optimally they may only treat symptoms, as you point out Yet that may be enough to have saved countless lives to date.

Families fight for years with their school systems once they become aware that their child is "different", many are bullied, the humility of never fitting in and the pain of being ostracized manifests itself differently in individuals over the years. but for the rare handful of those like this kid, the final eruption is beyond merely tragic.

There are no more publicly funded "state mental hospitals", well possibly a few are left, they were dreadful places of horror. And it seems that funding to help people/families dealing with these mental problems is lower on the list of importance than studying cow burps, and I'm not being funny.

We may in fact be fortunate that the vast majority of families with (usually) male children fitting this profile are dosing them with these drugs. Schools are spending huge chunks of their budgets (much to the annoyance of most here) providing specialists and assitance for children that are mandated (but not funded) to be mainstreamed. Our old teachers bear no resmblance to today's.

These feeble efforts may be why this sickening type of event is a rarity when so many potential mass murderers live in every community. The cost to properly treat children and young adults at danger of going off is beyond the wherewithall of 98.2% of American families. And almost everyone would vote against tax payer funded help. mental patients are released at alarming rates daily, but it is not a priority of society, and I am not lecturing but I am saddened.

These instances are not at all like angry gang related violence that may be rooted in social and economic factors. These acts are done for the most part by isolated or partially isolated individuals. I'm not attacking you at all, but must ask...what would you have them do, other than discontinue the drugs?



CelticBomber Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
dpnewell wrote:
..before the gun grabbers and anti-self defense freaks where using this horrid tragedy to further their political agenda. Protests in front of the White House, jumping on TV to promulgate their agenda. Even the President eluded to gun control in his "condolence" speech. Whores and bast-ards, every last one of them. How about some respect and sympathy for the victims and their families, and time for them to morn, before using dead children for your personal political gain? You have no idea what contempt I feel for these leaches.



The President didn't make one comment about guns AT ALL in his condolence speech. Not sure where you get that from. I just watched the speech twice just to see if I could find one thing he said that even hinted at gun control.

"We're going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this regardless of the politics." is the only thing he said about this tragedy where he wasn't offering prayers or any help the Federal Government could provide to the people directly affected by this in some way.
engletl Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 12-26-2000
Posts: 26,493
victor809 wrote:
While I think the original post is whiny and a bit of an exaggeration of reality, Brew, you're just as guilty of that.

Everyone gets to say "IF ONLY!" here....

Anti gun people are screaming "if only guns were outlawed, the criminal would only have stabbed one child!!!" (not sure how the anti-gun movement can call that a moral victory, sacrificing one child so 20 are saved? Only a victory if you're going be sheer body counts).
Gun people are screaming "If only every principal were armed!!! So many fewer would have been killed!!!" (again, not sure how that's really a victory, but even then, you have to add to that total any additional gun accidents that may happen at schools)...

The reality is that either fake situation is an unknown and BOTH sides are simply making **** up to suit their own purposes. The REALITY is that if you make it difficult to kill people (either by restricting access to guns, or by making sure armed principles are everywhere) then those interested in killing people will adapt. No guns? Hell, block all the windows and doors and torch the building killing 100 kids. All the principles are armed? Hell, block all the windows and doors and gas the entire school, killing 300 kids and 20 admins. Schools too tough to get to because all the principles are armed? Put some spike strips in front of a bus and board it after it runs off the road, kill all the kids one by one as you go down the aisle.

So before any of you pro-gun or anti-gun idiots decide to make up some retarded situation where your specific cause saves the day, realize that this PARTICULAR situation may not occur in your fantasy land, but millions of other situations, some better, some much much worse, will occur. You simply don't know if making it too difficult to go on a shooting rampage won't simply inspire a potential mass-murderer to get more creative and much more deadly.

Well said for a change victor.

Applause with a hint of Sarcasm

there is no perfect answer to how this could have been avoided and reactionary banning of this and that will do nothing to stop a "criminal" from getting the "tools" they need to carry out whatever plot they have dreamed up.

I for one am a gun owner and realize the responsibilities that come with my choice, hence the fact that I have a gun vault and take my kids to the range so they can understand the responsibilities that come with firearm ownership.
CelticBomber Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
victor809 wrote:
While I think the original post is whiny and a bit of an exaggeration of reality, Brew, you're just as guilty of that.

Everyone gets to say "IF ONLY!" here....

Anti gun people are screaming "if only guns were outlawed, the criminal would only have stabbed one child!!!" (not sure how the anti-gun movement can call that a moral victory, sacrificing one child so 20 are saved? Only a victory if you're going be sheer body counts).
Gun people are screaming "If only every principal were armed!!! So many fewer would have been killed!!!" (again, not sure how that's really a victory, but even then, you have to add to that total any additional gun accidents that may happen at schools)...

The reality is that either fake situation is an unknown and BOTH sides are simply making **** up to suit their own purposes. The REALITY is that if you make it difficult to kill people (either by restricting access to guns, or by making sure armed principles are everywhere) then those interested in killing people will adapt. No guns? Hell, block all the windows and doors and torch the building killing 100 kids. All the principles are armed? Hell, block all the windows and doors and gas the entire school, killing 300 kids and 20 admins. Schools too tough to get to because all the principles are armed? Put some spike strips in front of a bus and board it after it runs off the road, kill all the kids one by one as you go down the aisle.

So before any of you pro-gun or anti-gun idiots decide to make up some retarded situation where your specific cause saves the day, realize that this PARTICULAR situation may not occur in your fantasy land, but millions of other situations, some better, some much much worse, will occur. You simply don't know if making it too difficult to go on a shooting rampage won't simply inspire a potential mass-murderer to get more creative and much more deadly.


OMG someone was reasonable.. you don't belong here posting in the politics forum!
frankj1 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,290
engletl wrote:
Well said for a change victor.

Applause with a hint of Sarcasm

there is no perfect answer to how this could have been avoided and reactionary banning of this and that will do nothing to stop a "criminal" from getting the "tools" they need to carry out whatever plot they have dreamed up.

I for one am a gun owner and realize the responsibilities that come with my choice, hence the fact that I have a gun vault and take my kids to the range so they can understand the responsibilities that come with firearm ownership.

and you are blessed that your children are not afflicted with whatever causes these stomach wrenching hideous tragedies. I'm also blessed that way.
CelticBomber Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
BTW DP Both sides started with the rhetoric immediately. Fox, MSNBC, CNN all of them. Liberal and Conservative news outlets are no different from each other. But, your comment that the President eluded to gun control during his condolences speech smells a bit like the exact thing you say you're angry about, a conservative guy who doesn't like our democratic President, accusing him of politicking during a time when we should all be mourning.

No laws are going to stop these monsters once they make up their minds. You can read news from around the world of people doing horrible things with guns, knives, acid, explosives, sticks with nails in them and just plain old brute physical force. The only way to make any real change is through education, and getting people with mental health issue's the help they need. If my tax dollars are spent helping someone with mental health issue's I'm okay with that, regardless if they have insurance or not. Fighting about if it's legal to own a 30 round clip is a waste of time. Taking guns away from responsible legal owners is also a waste of time. They aren't the one's usually committing these crimes. Most legislation restricting gun ownership just makes the gun runners richer. I hate when something horrible like this happens and for weeks both sides do nothing but argue about guns etc when what they should all really be arguing about in my opinion is how we perceive and treat people with mental health issue's. How we ignore the problem and hope it will somehow go away. We let crazy people decide whether or not they will take their medications! That's insane! We're never going to be able to stop all the horrible things in the world that happen every day but Holy Christ lets at least start arguing about the right things instead of just spinning our wheels.
DadZilla3 Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
frankj1 wrote:
These instances are not at all like angry gang related violence that may be rooted in social and economic factors. These acts are done for the most part by isolated or partially isolated individuals. I'm not attacking you at all, but must ask...what would you have them do, other than discontinue the drugs?


I wish I knew. I do know that drugs aren't a cure for mental problems. Regarding the recurring furor over guns when things like this happen, people have snapped and done violence to their fellow man for a long time now and firearms make it infinitely easier than knives and baseball bats. I do have some questions...first, from what I've read about the kid who did the murders, it was obvious that he had some serious problems...how did he get such easy access to the firearms in his home? The guns weren't his. People, if you own a gun you have the responsibility to keep them secured. Buy a gun safe.

Second, why is government funding to get treatment for people with mental issues so seemingly unimportant compared to the billions of dollars we spend on what seems by comparison, trivial issues? I can understand the anger some folks have about the role that firearms play in horrible tragedies like this. But firearms aren't the root cause of tragedies like this. People with severe mental issues are the root cause. If government wants to 'do something', how about we get people like the kid who did these murders some effective intervention programs?

Quote:
There are no more publicly funded "state mental hospitals", well possibly a few are left, they were dreadful places of horror. And it seems that funding to help people/families dealing with these mental problems is lower on the list of importance than studying cow burps, and I'm not being funny.

Unfortunately yes, funding for mental health rarely if ever finds its way into political campaign speeches. But buzz words like gun control get everyone's attention. A tragedy piled upon more tragedy.

Abrignac Online
#50 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,391
Nothing short of a total ban on private gun ownership and a fail safe accounting of government owned firearms would have prevented this person from shooting all these people. That's not to say though he may have some other way to effect the same end result, that being mass murder. Perhaps he would have done as Timothy McVeigh and parked a fertilizer bomb next to the school and detonated it while the children were at recess or perhaps at dismissal. A quick google search turns up many instances of people driving vehicles into crowds. There are many other actions he could have taken that would have yielded the same results. Should we ban vehicles?

I challenge anyone who supports further restriction of gun ownership to put forth a definitive plan that demonstrates beyond any doubt whatsoever that said restrictions would have prevented this person from taking 20 lives at one time. As tragic as this incident is and though I wish it were not so, if someone wants to commit mass murder they are going to find a way.

We as a society have for the most part let ourselves be governed by kneejerks. Instead of a pragmatic approach to "issuses," our leaders put a finger up into the air, determine the direction of the wind and go from there. Bloomberg certainly wasted no time, neither did Obama though he was much more subtle.
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