America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 10 years ago by Brewha. 152 replies replies.
4 Pages<1234>
Here Are 5 God-Given Rights That Democrats Want To Take Away From You
tailgater Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
sd72 wrote:
The coke, as it were, was negotiated in your contract. What's being taken away is the staff at the store to unlock the doors, turn on the light, stock the cooler with coke, and reorder when needed.

Dues provide local unions the staff that works there.

You no longer have to pay dues, where's the coke come from. ??


You don't believe this.

You think the unions are useful. That's fine. I happen to disagree.
But don't use lies and myths and propaganda to state your case.




sd72 Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Did you read post 49. That's Forbes. So I'm lying, Forbes is lying, local news is lying, my unions lying, but your right.

Gotcha.
tailgater Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
sd72 wrote:
By definition, right-to-work laws grant workers the freedom to reject union membership dues, even if they join a union and enjoy all its benefits. /


I'd like to see that definition.
Because the law you previously linked doesn't define it like this.

The law clearly states that a worker can not be forced to join a union nor to pay the dues nor to pay equal amounts elsewhere in lieu of dues. The worker can not be discriminated against for not joining.
This does not mean they would enjoy benefits that are paid for out of the union dues.
But they would get the benefits that the employer provides.





tailgater Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
sd72 wrote:
Did you read post 49. That's Forbes. So I'm lying, Forbes is lying, local news is lying, my unions lying, but your right.

Gotcha.


Instead of me reading link after link, why don't you cut and paste the part that says non-union workers get union funded benefits.
Because your first link is the actual law itself, and it doesn't state this.

teedubbya Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Imma not gonna provide the federal law but it is a fact with fed workers
tailgater Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Nothing would surprise me with the federal interpretations.

The fear here (for the unions) is that the federal policy is used in court to set the precedent.

Or is it president?

What do I know? I pronounce union with a soft U, like the vegetable.
sd72 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
There are no benefits from dues. They're paid for in a lump sump hourly rate, to the union. If you're a member you get all of the benefits. The union pays the healthcare fund, and the pension fund. The employer only provides the hourly rate, which is why most owners are also members, to get the healthcare, and pension plans.

The employer provides no benefits, he pays the hourly rate, which then get divided between benefits and paycheck by the union.

They are not separate.
sd72 Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Post 54.

Anyone can join the union, get every benefit and not pay dues. I already pasted it. A,B, & C from the pervious post.
That's what that says.
tailgater Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
sd72 wrote:
Post 54.

Anyone can join the union, get every benefit and not pay dues. I already pasted it. A,B, & C from the pervious post.
That's what that says.


Then this is where we'll agree to disagree.
It does not say anything about getting benefits, directly or otherwise.
teedubbya Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Lol

tailgater Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
sd72 wrote:
There are no benefits from dues. They're paid for in a lump sump hourly rate, to the union. If you're a member you get all of the benefits. The union pays the healthcare fund, and the pension fund. The employer only provides the hourly rate, which is why most owners are also members, to get the healthcare, and pension plans.

The employer provides no benefits, he pays the hourly rate, which then get divided between benefits and paycheck by the union.

They are not separate.


Let's assume this is true.
Are you suggesting that the non-union worker will get healthcare and pensions without contributing?



sd72 Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
The contribution is part of the base wage package. So, no. Lets say I make $60 an hour, and its divided up 31 to my check, 19 to pension, 10 to health.

Employer pays 60 to the union. They're done.

Union divides, and puts Monies where they go, to each persons individual accounts. Manages the health fund(self insured), invests the pension money's under ERISA mandated laws. Pays health claims on and on and on.

So of you join the union, you get the 60$ an hour. Which includes pay, health, pension.

Just don't have to pay dues to get it.
HockeyDad Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
teedubbya wrote:

have no clue about MI nor do most in here



Actually SD72 posted a link to the actual law. Pay attention.
teedubbya Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'm so confused
bloody spaniard Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
teedubbya wrote:
I'm so confused

'Cause you're trying to stir the pot in an affable, non-biased, and uninformed way.
Everybody has a purpose on this board. Embrace it.
HockeyDad Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
The ACLJ frequently receives questions regarding an employee’s First Amendment rights and their obligations to a labor union. As a general rule, no employee, whether in the private or public sector, can legally be required to join a union and pay full union dues. Yet, in many states, an employee can be forced to pay certain union dues or be fired.

Public Employees

Federal law guarantees employees of the federal government, including postal service employees, the right to refrain from union membership. 5 U.S.C. § 7102 (federal employees generally); 39 U.S.C. § 1209(c) (postal employees). A public employee who opts out of union membership is still covered by the collective bargaining agreements negotiated between the employer and the union. Thus, a public employee still reaps the benefits of the collective bargaining agreement (e.g., wages, vacations, pensions, health insurance) despite not joining the union. A public employee who is not a member of the union may not, however, be able to participate in union elections, meetings, votes, or other union activities. Unions may not discipline nonmember public employees.

Nonmember Public Employee Rights Regarding Union Dues for Political Activity

The Supreme Court in Abood v. Detroit Board of Education, 431 U.S. 209 (1977), held that public employees that elect not to join a union can only be required to pay a fee (i.e. “agency fee” or “fair share fee”). The agency fee equals the employee’s share of what the union can prove is related to collective bargaining, contract administration, and grievance adjustment. The agency fee “must (1) be ‘germane’ to collective bargaining activity; (2) be justified by the government’s vital policy interest in labor peace and avoiding ‘free riders’; and (3) not significantly add to the burdening of free speech that is inherent in the allowance of an agency or union shop.” Lehnert v. Ferris Faculty Ass’n, 500 U.S. 507, 520 (1991). Activities that generally will not meet this test are political or ideological activities; lobbying not related to the collective bargaining agreement; public relations; illegal strikes; and “members only” benefits. See, e.g., Locke v. Karass, 555 U.S. 207 (2009); Lehnert v. Ferris Faculty Ass’n, 500 U.S. 507 (1991); Ellis v. BRAC, 466 U.S. 435 (1984); Abood, 431 U.S. 209; Pirlott v. NLRB, 522 F.3d 423 (D.C. Cir. 2008).

Generally, public union members do not have a right to prevent the use of their dues for political activities with which they disagree. Therefore, in order to prevent the political use of union dues, an employee may need to resign from the union. The Supreme Court has held that, when one elects not to join a union or resigns, the union must provide certain procedural safeguards, including: (1) an agency fee audit; (2) an opportunity to challenge the fee before an impartial decisionmaker; and (3) the right to escrow a challenged fee. Chi. Teachers Union v. Hudson, 475 U.S. 292, 310 (1986).

“Right to Work” States: State Employees’ Rights Regarding Union Membership

State or local government employees’ rights depend on the state for which the employee works. If the employee is a member of a “Right to Work” state, the employee has the right to refrain from union membership and cannot be required to pay any union fees unless the employee voluntarily joins the union. To date, twenty-two states and one territory have passed Right to Work legislation. These include Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Guam, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, and Wyoming. However, public employees in states that do not have “Right to Work” laws may be required to pay union dues, but cannot be required to pay any more than the agency fee as discussed above.

Private Employees

Nonmember Private Sector Rights Regarding Union Dues for Political Activity

Private employees, with the exception of those in the airline and railroad industries, see below, are covered by the National Labor Relations Act (the Act). 29 U.S.C. §§ 151–169. Under the Act, union members can resign their membership at any time for any purpose. Pattern Makers v. NLRB, 473 U.S. 95 (1985). Like public employees, private sector employees cannot be required to pay more than the agency fee.Commc’n Workers v. Beck, 487 U.S. 735 (1988). The Supreme Court has held that private sector employees who elect not to join a union but who are required to pay union dues as a condition of employment have a right under the Act to object and obtain a reduction of the compulsory union dues for those expenses used for purposes other than collective bargaining, contract administration, and grievance adjustment. Id.

The National Labor Relations Board (NLRB), which enforces the Act, has ruled that the Act does not require private unions to provide the same safeguards as public unions. Instead, the act requires unions to: (1) inform employees of the right to be nonmembers; (2) inform employees that nonmembers have the right to reduced fees; (3) provide sufficient information for employees to make an informed membership decision; (4) disclose procedures for filing objections; and (5) if employees object, inform them of the reduction percentage, the calculation basis, and the right to challenge these figures. Cal. Saw and Knife Works, 320 N.L.R.B. 224 (1995), aff’d 133 F.3d 1012 (7th Cir. 1998).

The Rights of Railway or Airline Employees

Private railway and airline employees are covered by the Railway Labor Act (RLA). 45 U.S.C. §§ 151-188. They are not protected by state “Right to Work” laws. See Railway Employees’ Dep’t v. Hanson, 351 U.S. 225 (1956). However, they cannot be forced to join a union unless the collective bargaining agreement contains a provision that requires union membership or dues as a requirement of employment. Regardless, railway and airline unions cannot compel nonmember employees to contribute dues toward a political cause. See Ellis v. BRAC, 466 U.S. 435 (1984). Nonmembers may object to their dues being used for anything other than those expenses directly related to bargaining and administrative costs. Int’l Ass’n of Machinists v. Street, 367 U.S. 740, 774-75 (1961).

Resigning Union Membership and Objecting to Dues for Political Activities

All union members, regardless of whether they work for a private employer or the government, have the right to resign their union membership. Abood, 431 U.S. 209 (public); Pattern Makers, 473 U.S. 95 (private). To resign from membership, the employee should send the union a written letter stating his/her intent to resign effective immediately and should object to any compulsory dues being used for political activities. It is important to note that automatic payroll deductions for union dues may not cease immediately upon objection. In some instances, the resignation may not be effective until the end of a certain time period authorized in the union agreement. Employees should check with their employer for when they may resign from automatic payroll deductions.

Nonmember employees retain employee benefits negotiated as part of their collective bargaining agreement (e.g., wages, vacations, pensions, health insurance), and unions are still required to fairly represent nonmembers in all collective bargaining matters. See, Vaca v. Sipes, 386 U.S. 171, 177 (1967); Ford Motor Co. v. Huffman, 345 U.S. 330, 337 (1953). However, by resigning membership or never joining the union, nonmember employees may not be able to participate in union elections, meetings, votes, or other union activities. Additionally, nonmembers are not subject to union rules and discipline.

Religious Objection and Redirecting Union Fees to Charity

Federal law, under Title VII, protects nearly all employees from religious discrimination. 42 U.S.C. § 2000e et seq (covering federal, state, and municipal employees, employees of private employers with fifteen or more employees, and employees who are members of a union with fifteen or more members). An employer or union covered by Title VII must reasonably accommodate an employee’s religious beliefs unless doing so would create an “undue hardship.” Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has interpreted “undue hardship” to mean even a minimal cost to the employer or union, or if the accommodation compromises workplace safety, decreases efficiency, infringes on other employees’ rights, or requires other employees to do more than their share of potentially hazardous or burdensome work. See TWA v. Hardison, 432 U.S. 63 (1977). Considering this low standard, employees should work diligently with their employer or union to find a solution that is the least inconvenient or costly to the employer or union.

However, “[w]hen an employee’s religious practices do not permit compliance with [paying dues to a union], the labor organization should accommodate the employee by not requiring the employee to join the organization and by permitting him or her to donate a sum equivalent to dues to a charitable organization.” 29 C.F.R. 1605.2(d)(2). Frequently, the collective bargaining agreement provides a list of acceptable charities from which religious objectors may choose. Although an employee may request that his/her dues go to a charity outside this list, ultimately, if the union has provided the employee a reasonable accommodation, the union is not obligated to allow the employee to donate to the charity of his/her choice. See Ansonia Board of Education v. Philbrook, 479 U.S. 60, 69 & n.6 (1986). If the union and employer do not, however, offer to accommodate an employee’s religious beliefs, the employee may file a charge with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission within 180 days of the discrimination.
sd72 Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
It's ok. Said my peace, feel I have every fact covered. If this was a matlock episode, it be case closed.

Back to cigars.
HockeyDad Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
sd72 wrote:
There are no benefits from dues. They're paid for in a lump sump hourly rate, to the union. If you're a member you get all of the benefits. The union pays the healthcare fund, and the pension fund. The employer only provides the hourly rate, which is why most owners are also members, to get the healthcare, and pension plans.

The employer provides no benefits, he pays the hourly rate, which then get divided between benefits and paycheck by the union.

They are not separate.




The "benefit" the non-union members get from a union is the union and the employer have a collective bargaining agreement that covers all employees, union or not.

The union is getting money for the employer to provide benefits for everyone under the collective bargaining agreement. You seem to be under the impression that the employer will only pay the hourly money for the union employees but the union will have to provide the benefits to everyone. This is where you are incorrect.
HockeyDad Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
teedubbya wrote:
Imma not gonna provide the federal law but it is a fact with fed workers



The only benefit is collective bargaining. People are hearing "benefit" and thinking free healthcare.
HockeyDad Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
sd72 wrote:
The contribution is part of the base wage package. So, no. Lets say I make $60 an hour, and its divided up 31 to my check, 19 to pension, 10 to health.

Employer pays 60 to the union. They're done.

Union divides, and puts Monies where they go, to each persons individual accounts. Manages the health fund(self insured), invests the pension money's under ERISA mandated laws. Pays health claims on and on and on.

So of you join the union, you get the 60$ an hour. Which includes pay, health, pension.

Just don't have to pay dues to get it.



You also get the same $60 an hour if you don't join the union.

So what are the dues for again?
HockeyDad Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
sd72 wrote:
It's ok. Said my peace, feel I have every fact covered. If this was a matlock episode, it be case closed.

Back to cigars.



Your apology is accepted. I'm glad we were able to help you with your confusion.

(By the way, my son is a voluntary union member in a RTW state.)
sd72 Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Dues are for the hall, business agents, PACs. The staff that runs the union.

And stuff.

Ok. I'm back out. Thanks for accepting my apology.
Buckwheat Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
sd72 wrote:
It's ok. Said my peace, feel I have every fact covered. If this was a matlock episode, it be case closed.

Back to cigars.


Now you're talking Chit. WTF are you trying to do? Talking cigars here is the first step in getting kicked to the curb.

I was going to put the "Sarcasm Alert" smiley after this but even that would be sarcastic.
Abrignac Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,358
If all unions did was negotiate fair collective bargaining agreements, I'm sure there would be much less debate about the whole issue.
HockeyDad Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
sd72 wrote:
Dues are for the hall, business agents, PACs. The staff that runs the union.

And stuff.

Ok. I'm back out. Thanks for accepting my apology.



I want to join your union and get free pension and health benefits. How do I do that?
HockeyDad Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
Abrignac wrote:
If all unions did was negotiate fair collective bargaining agreements, I'm sure there would be much less debate about the whole issue.



The REAL corruption is in running the healthcare and pension funds. The employer just dumps money in and then the union staff get to have some fun.
sd72 Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
You join the union at the hall. On mound road. Bring $320 and your in. $18 to start. Free everything else in 90 days. 3 years, boom, your a journeyman. If your lucky, you'll become a foreman, then a superintendent. Retire with 7200 a month, and a fund that offsets section 415, and SS. So you only keep making more.

Ok, ill be honest, dues pay for the thugs we use to beat up people. Mostly womens, who don't sew fast enough. Oh wait, well, keep it between us. Ok?
teedubbya Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And representation in grievance appeals etc. as well as other employee disputes. it's not as simple as a quick read.
Abrignac Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,358
HockeyDad wrote:
The REAL corruption is in running the healthcare and pension funds. The employer just dumps money in and then the union staff get to have some fun.



Whoa nelly!

There is enough thievery to go around. It's not just the union staff screwing up healthcare.
HockeyDad Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
sd72 wrote:
You join the union at the hall. On mound road. Bring $320 and your in. $18 to start. Free everything else in 90 days. 3 years, boom, your a journeyman. If your lucky, you'll become a foreman, then a superintendent. Retire with 7200 a month, and a fund that offsets section 415, and SS. So you only keep making more.

Ok, ill be honest, dues pay for the thugs we use to beat up people. Mostly womens, who don't sew fast enough. Oh wait, well, keep it between us. Ok?



Don't I also have to like work or something to get the health and pension benefits? There has to be a catch.
HockeyDad Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
sd72 wrote:
Retire with 7200 a month, and a fund that offsets section 415, and SS. So you only keep making more.



Do you think it is ever really gonna pay that out?! Do you have enough youngsters coming into the union to pay it?
bloody spaniard Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Damn, this thread reads like good fiction.Gonz
jackconrad Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
The Plumbers and Pipefitters Union fund recently issued a letter of extinction on their pension plan stating that they were now on the of endangered accounts list which means that a large portion the money that was there to retire on wasn't actually there anymore..
HockeyDad Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
If I were in a union I would pay very close attention to the pension funding level. The union has to release that information. The union pension is not a guarantee.
sd72 Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
No. I expect the union to die shortly after RTW goes into effect.

Then ill be moving to Texas, and telling them how we did it up north.
HockeyDad Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
sd72 wrote:
No. I expect the union to die shortly after RTW goes into effect.

Then ill be moving to Texas, and telling them how we did it up north.



If then union dies after RTW, it deserved to die. It didn't provide enough of a service to its members to be worth the fees and only existed through force.

The union should be explaining its value to the membership instead of crying about losing its monopoly. Tell me why I should want to pay those dues.

...No you won't move to Texas. Union guys are too lazy to do something drastic and the Texicans won't listen to you. I think Texas is RTW.



sd72 Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Yup, you're right too.

Between you and tailgater, I don't even need to think for myself anymore.
sd72 Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
There should be a "ask hockey gator" help forum.
HockeyDad Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
sd72 wrote:
Yup, you're right too.

Between you and tailgater, I don't even need to think for myself anymore.



You already had that covered when you joined the union! They will do the thinking for you.
HockeyDad Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
Instead of crying doomsday, play the role of the union for a moment. I'm a new worker.

You want what....$320 per quarter year for dues. What service do you provide that is worth that fee. It was easy when you could just strong-arm me to pay. You never had to answer what you provide for the fee but in a RTW situation, the union is a service provider.

I know why you need me to join. Pension fund ponzis, healthcare fund ponzis, salaries for union staff, PACs, funds for recruiting other companies to unionize, etc.....

What are you going to do for me for the fee?
teedubbya Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
let you vote for officers and put you in the pool for the AFGE lunch box give away...

if you don't join you will still benefit from those that did and we are required to represent you in any personell action etc....


^ that is why I didn't join (ok I wouldn't have anyway)
HockeyDad Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
I prolly wouldn't have joined that one either unless I was after one of those officer positions and graft.
victor809 Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
HockeyDad wrote:
I prolly wouldn't have joined that one either unless I was after one of those officer positions and graft.


You expect us to believe you wouldn't be after the graft?
sd72 Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
320 initiation. 20 a month dues.

Honestly, I've been to the union one time. To sign up. I don't know the names of the players, who's who, and what not. I've only worked for one company until 2 weeks ago.
That being said, the best option in michigan is unions for what I do. Hourly pay, health care, retirement(until recent funding requirements put it in the red) far surpass what several companies my friends own would pay, doing the same thing.
We're not all like the UAW of 20 years ago, telling the big 3 you'll pay us more, even if it kills you.
Unions will be broken, but by the government and media, on behalf of their friends in big business, not by the clowns in the hall who can only do what they're mandated to do by gov regulations and oversight.
HockeyDad Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
victor809 wrote:
You expect us to believe you wouldn't be after the graft?



I prolly would go after the graft! Plus I could order TW around.
teedubbya Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
HockeyDad wrote:
I prolly would go after the graft! Plus I could order TW around.


You can order me around now if you like being the globalist tycoon that you are....

but since I'm not in the union you would have less luck in that position
HockeyDad Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
sd72 wrote:
320 initiation. 20 a month dues.

Honestly, I've been to the union one time. To sign up. I don't know the names of the players, who's who, and what not. I've only worked for one company until 2 weeks ago.
That being said, the best option in michigan is unions for what I do. Hourly pay, health care, retirement(until recent funding requirements put it in the red) far surpass what several companies my friends own would pay, doing the same thing.
We're not all like the UAW of 20 years ago, telling the big 3 you'll pay us more, even if it kills you.
Unions will be broken, but by the government and media, on behalf of their friends in big business, not by the clowns in the hall who can only do what they're mandated to do by gov regulations and oversight.



You're still not making the case as to why I should join and you admit you have an underfunded pension.
HockeyDad Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
teedubbya wrote:
You can order me around now if you like being the globalist tycoon that you are....

but since I'm not in the union you would have less luck in that position



fix me a sammich
sd72 Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Twice the money. Completion offers no benefits.

Most pensions are underfunded, they changed the funding requirement. You have to have a new hires entire projected pension in investment and cash the day you hire him. Based on actuarial estimates. You cannot have a surplus of money. Investments are mandated to where, and how much can be invested in any one type of investment. You can't be underfunded.

So basically, if you hire someone into the union, about a million dollars needs to appear from thin air.

Does your business require that??
HockeyDad Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
sd72 wrote:
Twice the money. Completion offers no benefits.




I thought the whole argument was that I could get the union benefit without joining. I'll take the "twice the money" but not pay dues. What is the problem with that from my perspective?
Users browsing this topic
Guest
4 Pages<1234>