America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 10 years ago by Brewha. 152 replies replies.
4 Pages<1234>
Here Are 5 God-Given Rights That Democrats Want To Take Away From You
Quilp Offline
#101 Posted:
Joined: 07-19-2013
Posts: 262
The argument was that RTW is a good thing

Which its not.
Burner02 Offline
#102 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
It is really a misunderstanding, O'Blamer wants to give us more rights.































Sarcasm
jackconrad Offline
#103 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
sd72 wrote:
Twice the money. Completion offers no benefits.

Most pensions are underfunded, they changed the funding requirement. You have to have a new hires entire projected pension in investment and cash the day you hire him. Based on actuarial estimates. You cannot have a surplus of money. Investments are mandated to where, and how much can be invested in any one type of investment. You can't be underfunded.

So basically, if you hire someone into the union, about a million dollars needs to appear from thin air.

Does your business require that??


Not he Plumbers and Pipefitters because they bill for the workers services take out their share for benefits and retirement and give the difference to the workers. They only promise to have what they collected for the Union Members. Amazigally over 20 % has to be missing for a letter of extinction to be demanded by the Government. Where did it go ? They only pay whatever the account balance(Money Collected plus earnings)is.

From what i see they are only another form of employment agency..

sd72 Offline
#104 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Where ya been bud?
HockeyDad Offline
#105 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
sd72 wrote:
Twice the money. Completion offers no benefits.

Most pensions are underfunded, they changed the funding requirement. You have to have a new hires entire projected pension in investment and cash the day you hire him. Based on actuarial estimates. You cannot have a surplus of money. Investments are mandated to where, and how much can be invested in any one type of investment. You can't be underfunded.

So basically, if you hire someone into the union, about a million dollars needs to appear from thin air.

Does your business require that??



So if I pay $320 to join your union, the union will need to immediately fund $1 mill USD in my name? Sounds good. I'm retiring the next day and collecting it.

(The way it actually works is you need to be at $1 mill USD when I retire in 30 years but at $0 the day I started. You're supposed to have funded what you would currently owe if I retired that day. That is how businesses with defined benefits pensions also work.)
tailgater Offline
#106 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
sd72 wrote:
There should be a "ask hockey gator" help forum.


How can I tell you what to think when you can't even show me where the law supports your claim?
I keep looking for the word "benefits" in that law. Is it hidden? Like a word jumble?
Oh, I just LOVE games!



HockeyDad Offline
#107 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
Quilp wrote:
The argument was that RTW is a good thing

Which its not.



Except that it is a good thing. You just hate workers having freedom.
tailgater Offline
#108 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Quilp wrote:
The argument was that RTW is a good thing

Which its not.


Not for the unions it isn't.
Although most RTW states still have strong unions who learned how to adapt and become a desirable service.
HockeyDad Offline
#109 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
tailgater wrote:
Not for the unions it isn't.
Although most RTW states still have strong unions who learned how to adapt and become a desirable service.



That is exactly the point I'm making. HockeySon is a member of a union in a RTW state. That particular union can make its case as to why it provides value for its membership dues.

It sounds like SD72's union can't or at least he can't and the union will fail as soon as RTW goes into affect because all its members are going to flee now that they cannot be extorted and forced to join.
sd72 Offline
#110 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Workers won't have freedoms. They'll have less money. RTW studies show a boost in job numbers, but a decrease in yearly average income. How's that you say? People make dramatically less.
tailgater Offline
#111 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
sd72 wrote:

We're not all like the UAW of 20 years ago, telling the big 3 you'll pay us more, even if it kills you.


Tell that to Hostess.



tailgater Offline
#112 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
So a law that allows unions to exist, but makes them optional for the employee, is a bad thing?

sd72 Offline
#113 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Only states that that have big federally funded incomes, like a fort Belvior, or ship building for the government, that require prevailing wage on the main job providing sites, have been less affected.
HockeyDad Offline
#114 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
sd72 wrote:
Workers won't have freedoms. They'll have less money. RTW studies show a boost in job numbers, but a decrease in yearly average income. How's that you say? People make dramatically less.



They will have the freedom not to join your crappy union that is going to fold because all your members quit because you can't bully them anymore.

So you say RTW causes an increase of jobs but lower average income........Sound like you want to keep the unemployed out of work so there is more money for you. Does that make you a greedy ****?...against income redistribution? I thought those were Republican characteristics!
sd72 Offline
#115 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
If right to work is good thing, why are airlines, and police excluded?
victor809 Offline
#116 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Not to point out the obvious, and distract you all from this boring discussion on unions (yes, I said it, unions bore me...) but I'm more curious about the title. What makes these rights "god given"? and doesn't it depend on the "god" in question? The entire premise of the post is wrong. You guys are just arguing over the details.
HockeyDad Offline
#117 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
sd72 wrote:
If right to work is good thing, why are airlines, and police excluded?



Airlines are covered by Federal law. That trumps your puny state RTW law. I wonder how things have gone for airline unions lately now that Golden Goose Airlines filed bankruptcy.

I don't think police are excluded in my state. They may have different graft needs in your state.
HockeyDad Offline
#118 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
victor809 wrote:
Not to point out the obvious, and distract you all from this boring discussion on unions (yes, I said it, unions bore me...) but I'm more curious about the title. What makes these rights "god given"? and doesn't it depend on the "god" in question? The entire premise of the post is wrong. You guys are just arguing over the details.



'Cause God gave them to us. You're welcome.
victor809 Offline
#119 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
HockeyDad wrote:
'Cause God gave them to us. You're welcome.


Which one? Last I heard there were a few...
HockeyDad Offline
#120 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
victor809 wrote:
Which one? Last I heard there were a few...



Seriously? How many God-given right have you received from Allah?
wheelrite Offline
#121 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
victor809 wrote:
Not to point out the obvious, and distract you all from this boring discussion on unions (yes, I said it, unions bore me...) but I'm more curious about the title. What makes these rights "god given"? and doesn't it depend on the "god" in question? The entire premise of the post is wrong. You guys are just arguing over the details.


Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness...


and beer..Beer

wheel,
victor809 Offline
#122 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
HockeyDad wrote:
Seriously? How many God-given right have you received from Allah?


Well that was kind of the point. I think he had a different list of "god-given rights"...
I suspect Buddha has another list altogether....
teedubbya Offline
#123 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
There is no one Buddha.
Abrignac Offline
#124 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,358
victor809 wrote:
Not to point out the obvious, and distract you all from this boring discussion on unions (yes, I said it, unions bore me...) but I'm more curious about the title. What makes these rights "god given"? and doesn't it depend on the "god" in question? The entire premise of the post is wrong. You guys are just arguing over the details.



Sssssh, can't let facts stand in the way of a good debate.
victor809 Offline
#125 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
There is no one Buddha.


Well hell... then there's gonna be tons of lists of rights.
Billman Offline
#126 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2013
Posts: 82
Sarcasm 'publicans good! Demo-cats bad! ARGH!!!!!
dpnewell Offline
#127 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2009
Posts: 7,491
Billman wrote:
Sarcasm 'publicans good! Demo-cats bad! ARGH!!!!!


No, they're both bad. Haven't you been paying attention?
HockeyDad Offline
#128 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,192
Republicans and Democrats both suck. The differences are minor.
Abrignac Offline
#129 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,358
HockeyDad wrote:
Republicans and Democrats both suck. The differences are minor.



I didn't realize there was a difference. I guess I should pay closer attention.
Billman Offline
#130 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2013
Posts: 82
LOL sorry can't afford to pay attention, all my $$ goes
"Up in smoke".....I voted kinky
jpotts Offline
#131 Posted:
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
victor809 wrote:
Not to point out the obvious, and distract you all from this boring discussion on unions (yes, I said it, unions bore me...) but I'm more curious about the title. What makes these rights "god given"? and doesn't it depend on the "god" in question? The entire premise of the post is wrong. You guys are just arguing over the details.


Besides the fact that you live in a country whose founding document says that you have inalienable rights given to you by your Creator?


I mean...uh...Victor? Did they not teach you that in middle school, high school, or college?
jpotts Offline
#132 Posted:
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
victor809 wrote:
Not to point out the obvious, and distract you all from this boring discussion on unions (yes, I said it, unions bore me...) but I'm more curious about the title. What makes these rights "god given"? and doesn't it depend on the "god" in question? The entire premise of the post is wrong. You guys are just arguing over the details.


Besides the fact that you live in a country whose founding document says that you have inalienable rights given to you by your Creator?


I mean...uh...Victor? Did they not teach you that in middle school, high school, or college?
jpotts Offline
#133 Posted:
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
Ok, since I am a certified Michigander – being that I have lived in the state all of my life, and worked here – I think I’m pretty qualified to comment on Right to Work.

Michigan has ALWAYS been a union state. You could not work in the auto factories on the line without being in a union, whether you wanted to be in one or not. That gave the unions unmitigated authority to take a portion of your salary for their dues whether you wanted their benefits or not.

You could not opt-out. Period. It was forced on you.

I know people who worked in the construction trades, and chose not to work in the union. The union would come in, destroy their equipment, and then the union lawyers would come in and sue them for back union dues. The union provided ZERO benefits for this, nor did they provide compensation for back benefits they did not provide, yet they were able to – via the courts – take someone’s hard-earned money.

The latest outrage came when the unions – in conjunction with the Granholm administration – forcibly unionized daycare workers (as if they didn’t make enough money already). They sent out a ballot asking if people wanted to be unionized, and people assumed that if you did not respond, then it was a vote to unionize. So, in the blink of an eye, people who never wanted to be unionized, did not ask to join a union, became union members with the stroke of a pen. Dues were extracted accordingly whether they liked it or not.

In 2010, Michigan basically went almost solid red, and voted in Republicans overwhelmingly (which is strange seeing that it went for Idi Amin Jr.). The result was twofold: the State of Michigan was no longer required to extract union dues from the paychecks of public sector employees, and RTW legislation was introduced and passed. I also believe a proposal was placed on the ballot that rolled-back the forced unionization thing. It passed by a HIGH margin of votes, if I recall correctly. I’d have to look it up.

Basically, Right to Work says you don’t have to join a union. The Union is responsible for collecting your dues (which removes the state government from that responsibility). If they provide benefits without collecting your dues, that’s the problem of the union. Period. A lot of this came about because unions were claiming that they were responsible for bringing about things like health benefits being offered by employers, the 40-hour work week, and all sorts of nonsense.

So now, in Michigan, unions actually have to compete. They don’t have their built-in, state-protected monopoly.

The fact is that unions in this state are thugs. They were given a free hand to basically bilk millions of dollars out of the auto companies by de-facto extortion via strikes to get all sorts of benefits that paid auto workers salaries and benefits that exceeded their work capacity. They also engage in several less-than-respectable practices that force the auto companies to pay more per worker, skirting heart of the contracts they sighed. I know this because the people who ran these plants often worked on the other side of the cubes I was working at in these places. I heard the discussions. It was very enlightening.

And when union membership declined, and companies were not hiring the number of union people that they used to, the unions did the honorable thing: kicked the people with lower seniority to the curb, so that the people with the most seniority (and highest wages) could keep their cushy little jobs. That’s the unions for you: looking out for the “little guy.”

Under Granholm and her union conspirators Michigan saw an exodus of manufacturing from the state. Some went overseas or to Mexico. Much of it went to states that did not require unionized labor for their factory workers. Other large auto-related businesses – Toyota and Honda to be exact – placed factories in places like Indiana, which was a Right To Work state at the time.

The only decent chunk of business that came into the state was the stuff I do: technology work. It is a very anti-union mindset – mainly because the people doing the work are mostly independent contractors and don’t want to be sharing their hard-earned money with a bunch of thick-brow, socialist knuckle-draggers - and it is kinda thriving. It isn’t what it was like under Engler, but it is much better than what it was under Granholm.

Now this is not representative of all unions in Michigan. Some of the trade unions are fairly decent. They have apprentice programs, they train their people, and some actually police their ranks. The rest of them, however, dragged the rest of them down into the hole they are in today.

My wife did a lot of voulenteer work at the schools, and had a lot of discussions with the teachers in the school district (all of the public school teachers in Michigan are unionized). It was kinda funny listening to her tell me what she’d hear from them when they were having funding problems (the district was running at a deficit). These teachers – many of whom made $80,000 or better and had gold-plated benefits packages – had no concept of the fact that they might have to make less because of shortfalls in district funding. Then my wife would explain to them what it’s like in the private sector, and they’d almost visibly turn white. They’d also quickly drop the subject.

Again, another union of whom most of the people were decent educators and fine people, yet they would do NOTHING to remove the bad elements from their ranks. And it’s like it never connected with them that they we taking a hit because those bad elements were drawing as much salary and benefits as a good worker in their ranks. In the private sector, that gets sorted out REAL quick.

So, what SD72 is giving you is absent context and historical perspective.

(That’s me saying that it is mindless propaganda.)
bloody spaniard Offline
#134 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
LOLOL! Good to see you back in form, jpotts!

I'm sure TW RAM WHACKS OFF will be thrilled to RAM WHACKS OFF see you as well!Beer
jpotts Offline
#135 Posted:
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
bloody spaniard wrote:
LOLOL! Good to see you back in form, jpotts!

I'm sure TW RAM WHACKS OFF will be thrilled to RAM WHACKS OFF see you as well!Beer



LOL.
wheelrite Offline
#136 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
I know where Jimmy Hoffa is....
victor809 Offline
#137 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
jpotts wrote:
Besides the fact that you live in a country whose founding document says that you have inalienable rights given to you by your Creator?


I mean...uh...Victor? Did they not teach you that in middle school, high school, or college?



Seeing as the "inalienable rights" given by "our Creator" in the declaration of independence number 3, I don't think that's gonna match up very well with the "5 god given rights" that the poster seems to think exist. But heck, maybe he is talking about vishna's rights or something... extra arms gives them extra rgihts, right?
JadeRose Offline
#138 Posted:
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
bloody spaniard wrote:
Who doesn't love your special brand of unique zaniness, Jack?
That's why you weren't on anybody's list. Don't be hurt. You're on EVERYONE'S secret list. (cough cough)


Well...now wait a minute here, Blood. Jack and I have had a few battles. They even got pretty heated at times.
JadeRose Offline
#139 Posted:
Joined: 05-15-2008
Posts: 19,525
jpotts wrote:
Ok, I am a certified dip$hit and I apologize.





This is what I read. I accept.
wheelrite Offline
#140 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
JadeRose wrote:
Well.. Jack and I have had a few battles. They even got pretty heated at times but we ALWAYS have queer butt sex afterwards.



Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
jackconrad Offline
#141 Posted:
Joined: 06-09-2003
Posts: 67,461
Little Jade is such a nice widdle Cocomoann..

But really i love da guy..
Bones33 Offline
#142 Posted:
Joined: 08-08-2013
Posts: 238
victor809 wrote:
Not to point out the obvious, and distract you all from this boring discussion on unions (yes, I said it, unions bore me...) but I'm more curious about the title. What makes these rights "god given"? and doesn't it depend on the "god" in question? The entire premise of the post is wrong. You guys are just arguing over the details.



Are you retarded or just indoctrinated with liberal nonsense. Very easy to stand for nothing and point fingers than to stand for something and defend it.
wheelrite Offline
#143 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
jackconrad wrote:
Little Jade is such a nice widdle Cocomoann..

But really i love da guy..



Beer
victor809 Offline
#144 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Bones33 wrote:
Are you retarded or just indoctrinated with liberal nonsense. Very easy to stand for nothing and point fingers than to stand for something and defend it.


Ummm... this is how you choose to introduce yourself? Quite some manners you've learned.
Anyway, you're calling me indoctrinated and retarded (sorry OR) yet you haven't actually said what you disagree with. Do you disagree with the fact that unions bore me? (because I can assure you that they do)....

You've been here all of 24 hours. Sit down and relax. You aren't going to get very far with random claims of retardation.
sd72 Offline
#145 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Um, did jpotts cite "some people on the other side of a cubicle talking" as his source for the downfall of the UAW? And you rally behind him like he's the pied piper?

It is nice to see him back though.
sd72 Offline
#146 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
And I'd like the thread title changed to "uniongate" please. Thank you.
Abrignac Offline
#147 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,358
victor809 wrote:

You've been here all of 24 hours. Sit down and relax. You aren't going to get very far with random claims of retardation.



Listen to Victor, he's correct. It's much better to directly call someone a retard than to make indirect insinuations.
jpotts Offline
#148 Posted:
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
victor809 wrote:
Seeing as the "inalienable rights" given by "our Creator" in the declaration of independence number 3, I don't think that's gonna match up very well with the "5 god given rights" that the poster seems to think exist. But heck, maybe he is talking about vishna's rights or something... extra arms gives them extra rgihts, right?


I'm hoping you're being sarcastic, otherwise you sound dense.

The other documents relegate any aforementioned rights not specified to the states and individuals. Again, this is middle school civics stuff.

I'd like to think that a person with an advanced degree would take the time to remember something so simple.

Usually when the communists take over, the first thing they do is target the educated and the intellectuals, and send them to pig farms. So if I were you, I'd read up on something about animal husbandry. Because if this is the type of thinking that is prevalent in the circles of the "educated," you're gonna need to know how things work "down on the farm"...
teedubbya Offline
#149 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Educated folk are bad.
jpotts Offline
#150 Posted:
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
teedubbya wrote:
Educated folk are bad.


So very, very true.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
4 Pages<1234>