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How's the Government closure affecting YOU?
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zitotczito Offline
#51 Posted: Wed, Oct 2 2013, 10:06 PM EST
Joined: 08-21-2006
Posts: 6,441
JGKAMIN wrote:
I'm right there with you. Forced into work with no promise of being paid for worked performed once this fiasco is resolved. All sick leave cancelled and all vacation time cancelled as well. A co-worker that just had surgery to remove large cancerous lumps from his head was called and told his sick leave was cancelled and he needs to return to work.


Same boat here, but I am classified as exempted (PC language) and therefore I am also working with no promise of getting paid. Would be interesting to see what happens if the budget gets passed and they say "Hey thanks suckers for working but no retroactive pay for you."
Bur Offline
#52 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 1:07 AM EST
Joined: 07-31-2012
Posts: 5,638
(On the PX) they usually are the same price or a little bit cheaper here unless the item is a "loss leader" in the stores-of course that is cheaper but you drive all over town cherry-picking the one item at each store. The other two reasons I like buying large purchases there is no sales tax, which is usurious in Kalifornia on top of our income tax. The other benefit is the profits go back into base recreation facilities instead of shareholders.
HockeyDad Offline
#53 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 4:50 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
With this whole essential versus non-essential, forloughs from sequestration, and now retroactive pay issues you would think Federal employees would be quiting their jobs in large quantities.

Even under the Obama Cone of Protection, there are still a few speed bumps. This too shall pass and the milk and honey will return.
zitotczito Offline
#54 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 5:04 AM EST
Joined: 08-21-2006
Posts: 6,441
HockeyDad wrote:
With this whole essential versus non-essential, forloughs from sequestration, and now retroactive pay issues you would think Federal employees would be quiting their jobs in large quantities.

Even under the Obama Cone of Protection, there are still a few speed bumps. This too shall pass and the milk and honey will return.


Sorry we can't quit or retire right now, no one to send the application to.
HockeyDad Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 5:04 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
bloody spaniard wrote:
But forgive me for taking the diminutive Reich's perceived socialist point of view, but wouldn't raising taxes on the corporate & rich allow for more resources for the middle class & poor which they would in turn spend vs. hiding in overseas accounts & ventures? Trickle down theory has been largely discredited by many including it's author David Stockman.

Another interesting aside is that Kalifornia which until recently had a huge deficit, decided to make spending cuts AND increase taxes under Brown's governorship. They now supposedly have a nice surplus.


Who said anything about Trickle Down?! Trickle Up is also widely discredited.

Raising taxes on corporations mean job will be destroyed. Through cost cutting or prices increased. Raising taxes on the rich means they buy muni bonds taxfree.

California is a wonderful but they still can't keep their residents from evacuating eastward. If it weren't for Mexicans, its population would be shrinking.

Cut taxes for everyone and increase govt borrowing is what I suggest.
HockeyDad Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 5:06 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
zitotczito wrote:
Sorry we can't quit or retire right now, no one to send the application to.


Anyone can quit right now. Nobody will.
HockeyDad Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 5:20 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
If a private sector company did what government has done this year, it would rapidly lose its employees, customers, and suppliers and be in bankruptcy.

The Federal govt is the largest employer, purchaser, and hirer of subcontractors in the country and can treat everyone like bitches. They won't lose a single employee, supplier, or subcontractor over this. We'll wait patiently at the trough.
bloody spaniard Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 10:23 AM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
HockeyDad wrote:
Who said anything about Trickle Down?! Trickle Up is also widely discredited.

Raising taxes on corporations mean job will be destroyed. Through cost cutting or prices increased. Raising taxes on the rich means they buy muni bonds taxfree.

California is a wonderful but they still can't keep their residents from evacuating eastward. If it weren't for Mexicans, its population would be shrinking.

Cut taxes for everyone and increase govt borrowing is what I suggest.



So California went from deficit to surplus in a relatively short time due to spending cuts only? Raising taxes on the wealthy and on corporations didn't help?
Are you also part of the crowd that doesn't believe in a minimum wage? I remember paying my employees a livable wage well above the minimum wage and it didn't hurt me. Sometimes you have to unclench your fists and let a few dollars escape your grasp for other than your own trinkets.
DrafterX Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 10:28 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
bloody spaniard wrote:
So California went from deficit to surplus in a relatively short time due to spending cuts only? Raising taxes on the wealthy and on corporations didn't help?



was prolly all the money Pelosi raked in from the gubment... Mellow
DrMaddVibe Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 10:45 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
Day 3 of IDGAF...the suspense is building...I hope it lasts!
HockeyDad Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 11:10 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
bloody spaniard wrote:
So California went from deficit to surplus in a relatively short time due to spending cuts only? Raising taxes on the wealthy and on corporations didn't help?
Are you also part of the crowd that doesn't believe in a minimum wage? I remember paying my employees a livable wage well above the minimum wage and it didn't hurt me. Sometimes you have to unclench your fists and let a few dollars escape your grasp for other than your own trinkets.



California got its "surplus" by underfunding the K-12 teachers pension by a few billion. The state and various govermental agencies are sitting on in the area of one trillion in debt and unfunded pensions and the tax structure is heavily dependent on taxing the wealthy.

The Great California Exodus is still ongoing.

A minimum wage is fine. I minimum wage of $15 is fine. I just recognize that it comes at a cost.

When you paid your employees a livable wage well above the minimum wage and it didn't hurt you, it that because you passed it on through price increases to some other sucker or you took a pay cut that you could afford? How white is that horse you're riding?!

The desire to punish the wealthy or to achieve some sort of payback from them is unhealthy.
bloody spaniard Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 12:15 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
HockeyDad wrote:
California got its "surplus" by underfunding the K-12 teachers pension by a few billion. The state and various govermental agencies are sitting on in the area of one trillion in debt and unfunded pensions and the tax structure is heavily dependent on taxing the wealthy.
The Great California Exodus is still ongoing.
A minimum wage is fine. I minimum wage of $15 is fine. I just recognize that it comes at a cost.

When you paid your employees a livable wage well above the minimum wage and it didn't hurt you, it that because you passed it on through price increases to some other sucker or you took a pay cut that you could afford? How white is that horse you're riding?!

The desire to punish the wealthy or to achieve some sort of payback from them is unhealthy.



Before you pay a salary you assess the bottom line. The "sacrifice" is mutual. One has to determine worth of employee as it applies to earning revenues. A good employee will be worth their salary and allow one to earn more than enough to sustain their salary. If not, then they get less or are laid off. One doesn't have to pass on "higher prices" to unsuspecting "suckers". In addition to one's own moral compass, the open market takes care of that. Unfortunately the latter doesn't exist as much anymore. Thus, folks are getting laid off in droves. My contractors (not employees) make less than half of what they used to make a decade ago. The small business community is going backwards.

Thanks for the explanation on the pension cutback. I don't read much anymore. Not interested in getting depressed or angry.
And to think that I used to subscribe to Punch (political) magazine and Psychology Today when I was about 14. Back then, I cared to understand the human condition here and on the international stage. I thought that I (and millions of others) mattered. Now, not so much.
HockeyDad Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 12:38 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
bloody spaniard wrote:
Before you pay a salary you assess the bottom line. The "sacrifice" is mutual. One has to determine worth of employee as it applies to earning revenues. A good employee will be worth their salary and allow one to earn more than enough to sustain their salary. If not, then they get less or are laid off. One doesn't have to pass on "higher prices" to unsuspecting "suckers". In addition to one's own moral compass, the open market takes care of that. Unfortunately the latter doesn't exist as much anymore. Thus, folks are getting laid off in droves. My contractors (not employees) make less than half of what they used to make a decade ago. The small business community is going backwards.



Now you're moving the playing fields a bit and now it sounds not quite so noble and more just like a businessman.

You made it sound like they were worth minimum wage and you were paying them more than that out of greatness. If you assessed the bottom line (costs and prices) and the prevailing wage for their position was $50K and you paid them $50K, you don't get no white horse status!

If they were worth minimum wage and you paid them $50K, then I would be impressed.

My moral compass demands that you double the wages of all your employees and contractors immediately.
DrafterX Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 12:44 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Laugh
HockeyDad Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 12:48 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
bloody spaniard wrote:
My contractors (not employees) make less than half of what they used to make a decade ago. The small business community is going backwards.



If they were smart they would have got government jobs at least 5 years ago.
bloody spaniard Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 12:50 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
^ Me too! Too late now.

HockeyDad wrote:
Now you're moving the playing fields a bit and now it sounds not quite so noble and more just like a businessman.
You made it sound like they were worth minimum wage and you were paying them more than that out of greatness. If you assessed the bottom line (costs and prices) and the prevailing wage for their position was $50K and you paid them $50K, you don't get no white horse status!
If they were worth minimum wage and you paid them $50K, then I would be impressed.

My moral compass demands that you double the wages of all your employees and contractors immediately.


LOL! You think I'm going to hire deadbeats like Drafter who post all day just cause he's handsome and knows clever parlor tricks?
HockeyDad Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 12:54 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
bloody spaniard wrote:
^ Me too! Too late now.



LOL! You think I'm going to hire deadbeats like Drafter who post all day just cause he's handsome and knows clever parlor tricks?




Unclench your fists and let a few dollars escape your grasp for other than your own trinkets.

And now, the matador shall dance with the blind shoemaker!
DrafterX Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 12:56 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
poor deadbeat Drafter... Sad
HockeyDad Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 12:59 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
Throw it up, throw it up
Watch it all fall out
Pour it up, pour it up
That's how we ball out
Throw it up, throw it up
Watch it all fall out
Pour it up, pour it up
That's how we ball out

Strip clubs and dollar bills
I still got more money
Patron shots can I get a refill?
I still got more money
Strippers goin' up and down that pole
And I still got more money
Four o'clock and we ain't going home
Cause I still got more money
Money make the world go round
I still got more money
Bands make your girl go down
I still got more money
Lot more where that came from
I still got more money
The look in yo eyes I know you want some
I still got more money

Ohhhh
All I see is signs
All I see is dollar signs
Ohhhh
Money on my mind
Money, money on my mind

Throw it, throw it up
Watch it fall off from the sky
Throw it up, throw it up
Watch it all fall out
Pour it up, pour it up
That's how we ball out
Throw it up, throw it up
Watch it all fall out
Pour it up, pour it up
That's how we ball out
That's how we ball out
That's how we ball out
That's how we ball out

Valet cost a hundred bills
I still got more money
Gold all up in my grill
I still got more money
Who cares how you haters feel
And I still got more money
Call Jay up and close a deal
I still got more money
My fragrance on and they love my smell
I still got more money
So who cares about what I spend
I still got more money
My pocket's deep, and they never end
I still got more money
I'm going dumb with all my friends
I still got more money

Ohhhh
All I see is signs
All I see is dollar signs
Ohhhh
Money on my mind
Money, money on my mind

Throw it, throw it up
Watch it fall off from the sky
Throw it up, throw it up
Watch it all fall out
Pour it up, pour it up
That's how we ball out
Throw it up, throw it up
Watch it all fall out
Pour it up, pour it up
That's how we ball out
That's how we ball out
That's how we ball out
That's how we ball out
DrafterX Offline
#70 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 1:03 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Mellow
DrMaddVibe Offline
#71 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 1:10 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
Better wear a cup!
bloody spaniard Offline
#72 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 1:25 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
DrafterX wrote:
poor deadbeat Drafter... Sad

Just busting your chops. Relax.
I know that your work output triples as you post. Mellow
Think
That kinda happened to Peter in The Office.
DrafterX Offline
#73 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 1:29 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
I get everything done on time... no piles of work on my desk.. I do feel under-challenged these days and have hit brick walls with stuff I've tried to do that would make us more efficient..... after a lot of thought my resume is out there now.. change may be coming soon... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#74 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 1:38 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
change may be coming soon... Mellow


finally getting the operation huh? Growing the teets just wasn't fulfilling?
DrafterX Offline
#75 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 1:41 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
teedubbya wrote:
finally getting the operation huh? Growing the teets just wasn't fulfilling?



that will depend on if Obamacare will cover it... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#76 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 1:41 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
that will depend on if Obamacare will cover it... Mellow


if not we'll take up a collection for you
bs_kwaj Offline
#77 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 1:42 PM EST
Joined: 02-13-2006
Posts: 5,214
Most of our AFN TV stations are down! Normally we have about... uh... 6 or 8 channels and now we are down to only uh... 2 or 3...

I don't watch much TV.

But think of the children!!

Beer
jpotts Offline
#78 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 4:46 PM EST
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
teedubbya wrote:
My son is active military and claims the PX is more expensive than anywhere else especially for electronics etc. That seems weird to me. Is that true? Sorry just reread you are a contractor. Nevermind.



And why, pray tell, do you think stuff is more expensive at the PX? Seriously.
jpotts Offline
#79 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 4:49 PM EST
Joined: 06-14-2006
Posts: 28,811
A government closure has very little effect on me.

I don't need much from the federal government. The only time I have any contact with them is around tax time.

Oh, except those "national standards" that I'm finding out as it relates to my son's Econ class. You know, the one where the curriculum states to give kids a CIA fact sheet and the Communist Manifesto, and have them figure out which is better: communism or capitalism?

And no, I'm not even remotely kidding about this...
DrMaddVibe Offline
#80 Posted: Thu, Oct 3 2013, 4:51 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
bs_kwaj wrote:
But think of the children!!




Don't have to anymore...abortion is covered under Obamacare!whip
Homebrew Offline
#81 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 1:02 PM EST
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
With the government shut down, there are no FDA inspectors, for food production. I have seen a dramatic decrease, in the rejected chicken going to rendering plants, which leads to a decrease in work for those who haul them to the rendering plant. I'll let Ya'll figure out what else that means.

Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)Beer
JGKAMIN Offline
#82 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 1:17 PM EST
Joined: 05-08-2011
Posts: 1,405
zitotczito wrote:
Same boat here, but I am classified as exempted (PC language) and therefore I am also working with no promise of getting paid. Would be interesting to see what happens if the budget gets passed and they say "Hey thanks suckers for working but no retroactive pay for you."

The good news is we will all get paid once this is over...the bad news is we will all get paid once this is over. So why on earth are we working for nothing more than those enjoying the vacation? I'm going into work every morning and not getting a thing extra than those sitting on the couch. Costs me $20/day just in gas to get into work, vacation days all cancelled, not able to call in sick, big family vacation trip in peril, yet those just merely furloughed can do as they please and will get paid the same, seems fair enough. Brick wall
Abrignac Offline
#83 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 2:26 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
JGKAMIN wrote:
The good news is we will all get paid once this is over...the bad news is we will all get paid once this is over. So why on earth are we working for nothing more than those enjoying the vacation? I'm going into work every morning and not getting a thing extra than those sitting on the couch. Costs me $20/day just in gas to get into work, vacation days all cancelled, not able to call in sick, big family vacation trip in peril, yet those just merely furloughed can do as they please and will get paid the same, seems fair enough. Brick wall



I'm thinking I'm going to sound like a ******, but I assure I don't mean to come across that way. In the military we had a saying, "Pick your rate, pick your fate." I'm sure there are others besides yourself who may be wishing they chose different career paths. Lord knows hind sight has been 20/20 for me. But, at the end of the day, it is what it is.
teedubbya Offline
#84 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 2:48 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
2 post up.

Wtf? Because you should work for your pay and just because someone else "gets something" doesn't mean your situation changes. You may not be in one, but this sums up the problem of unions. It smacks of their lowest common denominator mindset.

I'm working without pay and my wife is furloughed. It is driving her nuts and she wants to work. I don't look at her and say she is lucky to get a vacation because I see it is hurting her psych or ego, and I expect to work for my money. It's not welfare.

We may or may not get paid at this point but that attitude feeds certain stereotypes.

I'm hoping your post wasn't serious.
teedubbya Offline
#85 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 3:37 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And the thing you get that they don't is comfort in knowing at some point you will get paid. You just need to stall things long enough. At this minute they can hope for that but it's not absolute. Hopefully it will be soon.
teedubbya Offline
#86 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 3:51 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
By soon I mean I hope things open up and they go retroactive. I don't think they should do anything preemptive in the house, senate, or wh.
DrafterX Offline
#87 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 4:01 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
who are you talking to..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#88 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 4:02 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Louie Dog
DrafterX Offline
#89 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 4:03 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
good ole Louie-dog... Laugh
teedubbya Offline
#90 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 4:06 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yea. He always listens except when he doesn't.
DrafterX Offline
#91 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 4:07 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
have you taught him any Spanish..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#92 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 4:09 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
No he mostly just sings/howls

He does understand gee and haw though.
DrafterX Offline
#93 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 4:12 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
I met a couple German Shepherds in Puerto Rico that understood Spanish... I was impressed... Mellow
JGKAMIN Offline
#94 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 9:00 PM EST
Joined: 05-08-2011
Posts: 1,405
teedubbya wrote:
And the thing you get that they don't is comfort in knowing at some point you will get paid. You just need to stall things long enough. At this minute they can hope for that but it's not absolute. Hopefully it will be soon.
You will all get paid, it's guaranteed. Tell me anyone anywhere that would rather go into work over sleeping in all day and still getting paid, you can't be serious. Why have the shutdown when you plan to pay the workers anyway? Get everyone back to work and get some production. Talk about furthering a stereotype.
teedubbya Offline
#95 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 9:13 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'd rather work for my money. I don't want a hand out.

My wife actually told me she hopes she doesn't get paid because it's just more ammo to fling at fed employees. She meant it too.

I told her that's nonsense and to grab the money lol.
DrafterX Offline
#96 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 9:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Show Me da Money..!! Mad
teedubbya Offline
#97 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 9:42 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Honestly I'm glad I'm working and feel sorry for her because I know she wants to. Then again we both put in hours off the books too.
8trackdisco Offline
#98 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 9:57 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,090
I'm enjoying it.

Another step toward Total all out misery.

The sooner the civil war gets here, the sooner it will be over.

DrafterX Offline
#99 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 10:03 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560

They took the whole Indian nation
Locked us on this reservation
Though I wear a shirt and tie
I'm still part redman deep inside

Cherokee people, Cherokee tribe
So proud to live, so proud to die

But maybe someday when they learn
Cherokee nation will return, will return, will return, will return,
will return..... Whistle Whistle
Abrignac Offline
#100 Posted: Sat, Oct 5 2013, 11:24 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,327
DrafterX wrote:
They took the whole Indian nation
Locked us on this reservation
Though I wear a shirt and tie
I'm still part redman deep inside

Cherokee people, Cherokee tribe
So proud to live, so proud to die

But maybe someday when they learn
Cherokee nation will return, will return, will return, will return,
will return..... Whistle Whistle



You're not getting buttcheek tattoos I hope.
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