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Death Penalty.
tailgater Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
The death penalty in Massachusetts has been forbidden since 1982 or so.

But now Eric Holder has announced that the feds will push (or at least allow) the death penalty to be used on the marathon bomber if he's found guilty.

Nobody questions the legality of this.
But the talk circuits have been inconsistent at best.

Do anti-capital punishment liberals accept this from the Obama administration?
Should they embrace it?
Or do they stick to their values and rail against it?

DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,566
Rolling Stone will be outraged..... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
ooohh!!!

Is this one of those threads where everyone gets to talk about how much they'd kill this guy if they were in charge?

I'll go first! I'll kill him the most deadest!!!
ZRX1200 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
And yet they aren't seeking the DP for Nadaal Hasaan.....

Brown uslims are more equal than caucasion ones to the DIC (dictator in chief).

Also why would the feds be so gung ho to off this guy? Hmmm......tinfoil hats may be more right than many think on this one.
ZRX1200 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
Victor I fully believe that what you're saying is EXACTLY why the administration announced this.
DrafterX Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,566
They'll prolly trade him for Snowden.... Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
Russians WARNED us about these two specifically.

They ran the exact senario the day before.

Video and photographs showed many guys with backpacks, sunglasses and earpieces that day.

Then the door to door searches with no warrants.




Whole thing smelled.
tailgater Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
ZRX1200 wrote:
Russians WARNED us about these two specifically.

They ran the exact senario the day before.

Video and photographs showed many guys with backpacks, sunglasses and earpieces that day.

Then the door to door searches with no warrants.




Whole thing smelled.


I asked about the hypocrisy of Massachusetts liberals.
I didn't ask for proof that mentally numb conspiracy theorists still post on cigar forums.
horse

victor809 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Hey Z...

You know, that tinfoil hat you're wearing is seriously out of date. Makes you look fat too.

I can sell you this brand new, designer tinfoil hat for the low, low price of only $499.

See, you look much better in it. Makes you look 200lbs lighter than the other one, and 30 years younger. You almost look like Danny DeVito's older, shorter, heavier twin brother. Or wheel's younger, taller twin... one or the other...

So, whaddya say?
ZRX1200 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
Can I make installment payments O.A.C?
victor809 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
ZRX1200 wrote:
Can I make installment payments O.A.C?


No.

The NSA has already informed us of your creditworthiness.
ZRX1200 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
TG yeah it just crazy talk.

Why are they so eager here then (the FEDS not MA)?
tailgater Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
ZRX1200 wrote:
TG yeah it just crazy talk.

Why are they so eager here then (the FEDS not MA)?


Eager?
The kid's been in prison since May.
They're keeping him in solitary so he won't get shanked.
I saw the stats and despite the feds being "death penalty friendly" , there's been like only 3 deaths in 800 cases where it was permitted. Hardly a good odd.

Don't over think things.
I've seen the conspiracy sites, and they're embarrassingly sophomoric.
victor809 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Eager?
The kid's been in prison since May.
They're keeping him in solitary so he won't get shanked.
I saw the stats and despite the feds being "death penalty friendly" , there's been like only 3 deaths in 800 cases where it was permitted. Hardly a good odd.

Don't over think things.
I've seen the conspiracy sites, and they're embarrassingly sophomoric.


TG is clearly part of the conspiracy. Nothing he says can be trusted.
ZRX1200 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,630
Oh I had him pegged a long time ago.
Gene363 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,850

Put him, his mother and all his idiot fans on a desert island. To his credit, Sh|t bag number two took out Sh|t bag umber one.
rfenst Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,379
ZRX1200 wrote:
Oh I had him pegged a long time ago.


You pegged him?
tailgater Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
ZRX1200 wrote:
Oh I pegged him a long time ago.

Blushing
frankj1 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
tailgater wrote:
I asked about the hypocrisy of Massachusetts liberals.
I didn't ask for proof that mentally numb conspiracy theorists still post on cigar forums.
horse


I am probably in the minority for a change, but I've always had a problem seeing this issue as a political party line item. I see it more as an individual's philosophy based on factors such as but not limited to religious beliefs, fear of allowing the gov't the ultimate power, fear of killing by mistake, etc. Just has a different feel to it than welfare programs, international relationships, taxes, et al. Hey, that's just me.

We have conservatives here that are against state authorized murder, some cite one or more of the above for their rationale.

If the op is hellbent on establishing that libs are girly men without the testicular fortitude to pull the switch, then I am in the wrong thread. However, I did not infer that from the op at first.

TG, I do agree with you that the conspiracy advocates are missing the truth of what transpired...in this case.

Edit: I forgot to answer the original question. I am a resident Masshole, and I am not happy with the Feds attempts.

Interesting position articles in today's Boston Globe. The anti death penalty position was written by the son of a newsworthy murder victim by terrorists. he said it did not bring peace nor closure to his family. They realized they wanted something else. Good read.
cacman Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
I am not a proponent of long death penalty sentences. Instead I would rather see a 9mm to the back of the head. Simple, cost effective, and done quickly without year after year of appeals. I don't want my tax dollars providing advanced education, healthcare including sex change operations, or food.
tailgater Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
I am probably in the minority for a change, but I've always had a problem seeing this issue as a political party line item. I see it more as an individual's philosophy based on factors such as but not limited to religious beliefs, fear of allowing the gov't the ultimate power, fear of killing by mistake, etc. Just has a different feel to it than welfare programs, international relationships, taxes, et al. Hey, that's just me.

We have conservatives here that are against state authorized murder, some cite one or more of the above for their rationale.

If the op is hellbent on establishing that libs are girly men without the testicular fortitude to pull the switch, then I am in the wrong thread. However, I did not infer that from the op at first.
.


It's not about the fortitude at all. If I have painted a picture as liberals being namby pansies, it is unrelated to the topic at hand and is a truth that stands on its own merit. Angel

But it is generally true that conservatives favor capital punishment, while liberals lean towards the bleeding heart approach.
Truth be told, I'd prefer to see this **** put into the general prison population for the rest of his life, which would likely be just a few months before he was shanked for the killing of the kid.

But living in our bluest of blue states, it is comical to watch the politicos try to justify their outright ban on the death penalty while embracing the federal decision to allow it. It's a rare opportunity to witness hypocrisy so obvious that you can feel their conflict.
THAT is the intended focus of this thread.

frankj1 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
tailgater wrote:
It's not about the fortitude at all. If I have painted a picture as liberals being namby pansies, it is unrelated to the topic at hand and is a truth that stands on its own merit. Angel

But it is generally true that conservatives favor capital punishment, while liberals lean towards the bleeding heart approach.
Truth be told, I'd prefer to see this **** put into the general prison population for the rest of his life, which would likely be just a few months before he was shanked for the killing of the kid.

But living in our bluest of blue states, it is comical to watch the politicos try to justify their outright ban on the death penalty while embracing the federal decision to allow it. It's a rare opportunity to witness hypocrisy so obvious that you can feel their conflict.
THAT is the intended focus of this thread.


I get ya...and I smiled too.
frankj1 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
cacman wrote:
I am not a proponent of long death penalty sentences. Instead I would rather see a 9mm to the back of the head. Simple, cost effective, and done quickly without year after year of appeals. I don't want my tax dollars providing advanced education, healthcare including sex change operations, or food.

plenty of opportunity to live in countries that agree with that type of swift, powerful, totalitarian government style judicial system.

You'd only have to be careful not to exercise freedom of speech there, or right to assemble,or several other rights that you would no longer have. Your security would be enhanced, however. Not a deal I'd make.

I sometimes feel and say stuff like you posted, but I make sure I don't make decisions until I regain control of my emotions, and then I pray a fair trial yields the correct verdict.
PorknBeans Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 07-23-2013
Posts: 357
if they wanted him dead he would already be dead
this is just a nother watch the squirrel moment
frankj1 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
PorknBeans wrote:
if they wanted him dead he would already be dead
this is just a nother watch the squirrel moment

he's gonna be dead, he deserves to be dead...just don't want my fingerprints on it.
fiddler898 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
The five possible outcomes (some call them goals) of sentencing are restitution, rehabilitation, deterrence, restoration & incapacitation. The only goal that is met by capital punishment is incapacitation. That said, it's my uneducated guess that Holder's seeking the Death Penalty is a strategy to get the accused to strike a bargain where he gives up everything he knows. Trouble is, the brains (if you want to call it that) behind the attack is dead, which makes my guess even less educated.
wheelrite Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 11-01-2006
Posts: 50,119
The death penalty is wrong,,,,



wheel,
stogiemonger Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2009
Posts: 4,185
If the feds wanted to have authority over this trial, or the sentencing, they should be trying it themselves in a military court, as a war crime.
jetblasted Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Seems like the Feds did an over-ride with the DC Sniper, too . . . They didn't let him sit on death row for 20 years, either . . .
rfenst Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,379
stogiemonger wrote:
If the feds wanted to have authority over this trial, or the sentencing, they should be trying it themselves in a military court, as a war crime.



Federl court is appropriate.
Gene363 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,850
tailgater wrote:
It's not about the fortitude at all. If I have painted a picture as liberals being namby pansies, it is unrelated to the topic at hand and is a truth that stands on its own merit. Angel

But it is generally true that conservatives favor capital punishment, while liberals lean towards the bleeding heart approach.
Truth be told, I'd prefer to see this **** put into the general prison population for the rest of his life, which would likely be just a few months before he was shanked for the killing of the kid.

But living in our bluest of blue states, it is comical to watch the politicos try to justify their outright ban on the death penalty while embracing the federal decision to allow it. It's a rare opportunity to witness hypocrisy so obvious that you can feel their conflict.
THAT is the intended focus of this thread.



This pretty well sums it up. One thing about any shortcuts in trials, especially those leading to the death penalty, you never know who is going to be elected and use them on the 'wrong' people. To wit, look at the unbridled liberal hate for conservatives, e.g., Palin, Rush and Coulter. Just to be fair, we could use a few less patchouli oil stinking ocu'tards, though I would not be in favor of killing them, a real job would be punishment enough.

As for sh|t bag number two, there isn't enough bad we could visit on him to make up for his evil. Ban his image and lock him in a cell to listen to recordings of the injured until the end of his miserable life.
drywalldog Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2007
Posts: 5,536
So are you pissed off because the dems wanna drop the hammer on this dude, or because its against Mass. Law? Or because you didn't getto say it first?
drywalldog Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2007
Posts: 5,536
Getto that's funny.
drywalldog Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2007
Posts: 5,536
Unbridled liberal hate for conseratives, that's priceless.
Gene363 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,850
drywalldog wrote:
So are you pissed off because the dems wanna drop the hammer on this dude, or because its against Mass. Law? Or because you didn't getto say it first?


Not 'pissed' at all, just highlighting the hypocrisy.

drywalldog wrote:
Unbridled liberal hate for conseratives, that's priceless.


Well at least you acknowledge the hate.
drywalldog Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2007
Posts: 5,536
No hate for Obama, Clinton, Pelosi, Reid, Gore, or any others. Hell ,, most here would pull the trigger to off all the above if they knew they wouldn't get caught.
Gene363 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,850
drywalldog wrote:
No hate for Obama, Clinton, Pelosi, Reid, Gore, or any others. Hell ,, most here would pull the trigger to off all the above if they knew they wouldn't get caught.


Freud had a name for this: Psychological Projection, thoughts, motivations, desires, and feelings that cannot be accepted as one's own are dealt with by being placed in the outside world and attributed to someone else.
drywalldog Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2007
Posts: 5,536
That kinda works for your second comment on line 35. Nice of you to point that out.
Gene363 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,850
drywalldog wrote:
That kinda works for your second comment on line 35. Nice of you to point that out.


No it does not, go back and read post number 16.
jetblasted Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
This reminds me of driving to work back in the late 80's listening to Paul Harvey.

He told the story of a child rapist that was put to death for the crime after sitting on death row for over 20 years, the countless appeals, the extremely high costs attributed to this man's heinous crime.

Paul Harvey then switched gears, telling the story of a man in Iran who sodomized 3 boys the same week as the broadcast, and then threw them off a cliff to their deaths. One survived, and crawled his way back into town to tell what had happened. The town folk went and found the man that same day, took him to the same cliff, and threw him off the cliff to his death.

Good, Day !!
frankj1 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
so we are up to 2 votes to be more like Iran...unless I missed someone.
Gene363 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,850
frankj1 wrote:
so we are up to 2 votes to be more like Iran...unless I missed someone.


What happens in a small village in Iran stays in Iran.
jetblasted Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Or, we could go back to hanging on the courthouse steps, and that would be just fine with me . . .
Buckwheat Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Just force them to watch this Super Bowl!
frankj1 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
Gene363 wrote:
What happens in a small village in Iran stays in Iran.

sure hope you are right, bro!
tailgater Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
drywalldog wrote:
So are you pissed off because the dems wanna drop the hammer on this dude, or because its against Mass. Law? Or because you didn't getto say it first?


Man, haven't heard from angry liberal dude in a while.

Here's the short version:
Massachusetts democrats are against the death penalty.
Until they're for it.

News at 11.


cacman Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
jetblasted wrote:
Or, we could go back to hanging on the courthouse steps, and that would be just fine with me . . .

Cable Pay-per-View.
victor809 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Man, haven't heard from angry liberal dude in a while.

Here's the short version:
Massachusetts democrats are against the death penalty.
Until they're for it.

News at 11.




I dunno Tail. Isn't that kind of self evident?

I mean... if you're against something, odds are you'll remain against it. Until you're for it. Then you'll be for that thing. You'll probably remain for that thing until you decide to be against it again....

I guess I don't see how people changing their mind is surprising.

tailgater Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
I dunno Tail. Isn't that kind of self evident?

I mean... if you're against something, odds are you'll remain against it. Until you're for it. Then you'll be for that thing. You'll probably remain for that thing until you decide to be against it again....

I guess I don't see how people changing their mind is surprising.



A. You OK? Late night? Lack of sleep?
B. If you feel the need to take this literally, then you're missing the point. The Dems here aren't any more in favor of the DP today then they were last year. They just are willing to let a more prominent democrat (Holder/Obama) place a ruling without nary a blink or peep.
Call it hypocrisy (I do), call it lack of character (I do), call it lack of conviction for their beliefs (I do).

You get the gist.



frankj1 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,231
tailgater wrote:
A. You OK? Late night? Lack of sleep?
B. If you feel the need to take this literally, then you're missing the point. The Dems here aren't any more in favor of the DP today then they were last year. They just are willing to let a more prominent democrat (Holder/Obama) place a ruling without nary a blink or peep.
Call it hypocrisy (I do), call it lack of character (I do), call it lack of conviction for their beliefs (I do).

You get the gist.




or call it close to home. As Big Papi said "this is our bleeping city!" Sort of like when people say no atheists in a fox hole...no one knows until they are in a fox hole.

I'm still against it though.
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