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Last post 9 years ago by ZRX1200. 113 replies replies.
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Obama administration proposes to slash carbon emissions from power plants by 30% by 2030
gryphonms Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 04-14-2013
Posts: 1,983
Even though I believe global warming exists I find this very draconian in nature. This will virtually eliminate the coal mining industry and the estimated cost is 50 billion per year to move to alternative fuels and power sources. Also any changes need to happen on a global scale to have a real impact.
ZRX1200 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Global warming exists, as does cooling. THE TEMPS ALWAYS CHANGE.


This is obviously a "Shovel Ready Jobs Program " for the coal states. They can sign up for prevailing wage jobs burying their ability to sustain themselfs and begin suckling the Federal teat some more.

Soft communism needs despair.
ZRX1200 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
PING LE HOCKEY DAD! !!!


A man ahead of his time, lets try the pitchfork/torches biz again buddy
gryphonms Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 04-14-2013
Posts: 1,983
? Z you lost me with the pitchfork/torches. Since I am sometimes slow to follow would you please explain. Thank you.
Brewha Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
ZRX1200 wrote:
Global warming exists, as does cooling. THE TEMPS ALWAYS CHANGE.


This is obviously a "Shovel Ready Jobs Program " for the coal states. They can sign up for prevailing wage jobs burying their ability to sustain themselfs and begin suckling the Federal teat some more.

Soft communism needs despair.

Z, the shift in the climate from man made greenhouse gasses is real. And really bad. And at hand.

You should try watching last Sundays episode of Cosmos.
Gene363 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,844

Translation: Cripple US power production

Result: Further enslave the US, debt slaves, not citizens.
HockeyDad Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,164
ZRX1200 wrote:
PING LE HOCKEY DAD! !!!


A man ahead of his time, lets try the pitchfork/torches biz again buddy



I lost faith in the American people the last time I tried to sell torches and pitchforks and all the people did was sit on the couch and watch American Idol and MMA.
stogiemonger Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2009
Posts: 4,185
This will be a real job killer in many states, will positively result in further dependence on foreign oil, and will make no considerable difference to the global climate, whatsoever.
TMCTLT Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
stogiemonger wrote:
This will be a real job killer in many states, will positively result in further dependence on foreign oil, and will make no considerable difference to the global climate, whatsoever.



Hey Brewha......^^^^^THIS

BuckyB93 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,227
Bah! Don't buy into the Chicken Little cries. Oh wait...

Mount Tom Power Plant Closing In October
By The Associated Press June 3, 2014

HOLYOKE, Mass. — The company that owns the coal-fired Mount Tom Power Station announced Monday it will officially close in October after three years of off-and-on operation, and the future of its 28 workers is unclear.

A spokeswoman for GDF SUEZ Energy North America, Carol Churchill, told The Republican of Springfield the decision to close its only coal-burning plant in New England is economic. She said the company is exploring another use for the facility, including solar power.

“We are trying to determine what we are going to do with the facility and determine what needs to be done as part of that,” she said. She said the company will work with the state Department of Environmental Protection, the federal Environmental Protection Agency and the city of Holyoke among other agencies on closing the plant and deciding on a new use for the property.

She said workers will be encouraged to apply for any vacancies at its other plants. The company has several hydroelectric facilities in New England and other plants around the country.

Brian Kenney, business manager and financial secretary for the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, International 455, which represents the workers, said their contract expiring in October has a severance package.

“These employees are life-long career people and those jobs are cradle-to-grave jobs and they will be tough to replace,” he said.

He said he hopes the many workers close to retirement can somehow still qualify for retirement benefits. It’s hoped some can be kept on to help with the closing.

Kenney said the only vacancies the union is aware of now are at plants in Texas.



I fully expect to see more stories like this along with increases in my electric bill. Thank you Washington DC.
DrafterX Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
President Obama is imposing cutbacks on greenhouse gas emissions.

"As president, and as a parent, I refuse to condemn our children to a planet that's beyond fixing," Obama said.

Part of the plan is to give states and local governments latitude on how to reduce pollution, encouraging solar and wind power instead of forcing power plants to close.

Mike Enzi, a Republican senator from Wyoming, says the move will cut coal and the 800,000 jobs that go along with it. "If it succeeds in death by regulation, we'll all be paying a lot more money for electricity, if we can get it," Enzi says. The U.S. chamber of commerce estimates it will cost the economy $50 billion a year, but some say those claims are exaggerated. "This is something we can't put off and the president deserves huge credit for making this his legacy," says David Doniger of the Natural Resources Defense Council.

Here in Oklahoma, PSO customers should expect their bills to go up at least 11% starting in 2016. The company anticipates the rate hikes because of the changes to the way we get energy. "We're hopeful that there will not be additional costs now associated with CO2," says Stan Whiteford with PSO.

The EPA rules cover more than 600 pages of material, so experts are combing through the technical information.

Film at 11..... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
they tooker jobs
victor809 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Is an increased electric bill really a big deal? I mean... we pay 25$ a month. Even if it doubled, it's still less than dinner.

As long as we aren't seeing rolling blackouts or any disruption in service, I'm not sure a powerplant closing is necessarily a crisis. The guys who lost their jobs can all move to seattle where they just passed a $15 minimum wage. They can flip burgers for $15/hr!

teedubbya Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
$25 a month? that's cheap. My bill is in the hundreds and talking to frirends in Puerto Rico theirs surpasses their rent.
ZRX1200 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
This time of year my bill runs about $100/month
HockeyDad Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,164
victor809 wrote:
Is an increased electric bill really a big deal? I mean... we pay 25$ a month.



Do you live in a closet?
BuckyB93 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,227
Wow $25 per month! Where do you live? In a van down by the river?

Before any rate increases mine runs about $100/month (electric stove, fridge, hot water, clothes washer & dryer, standard household stuff). In the summer it will go up depending on air conditioner usage.

Vic, if you don't care about somebody copping money out of your pocket each month and not getting anything extra in return, I'll send you my address and you can mail me a check each month. Shoot, I'll even pay for the stamp.
teedubbya Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I heard the price of stamps are going up 30%
BuckyB93 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,227
I was just looking at my electric bill last night and noticed some fine print. If I pay by mail, they charge me $6.00 processing fee but I can get it waived if I pay on-line.

WTF is up with that?
teedubbya Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Just have victor pay it
victor809 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
If your utilities are too expensive, maybe you should live in a smaller place?

No ac... Central heat for the building (I keep it off, SF is warm)....

I guess my point is the same one I give the people whining minimum wage needs to be raised. If things are too expensive for you, get another job. ;)
teedubbya Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I took it back because it was an awful idea
DrafterX Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
teedubbya wrote:
I took it back because it was an awful idea




I don't think he can have kids... somethin about a pony punch or donkey punch.. somethin like that... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Or they should just abort their kids or something...
teedubbya Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
I don't think he can have kids... somethin about a pony punch or donkey punch.. somethin like that... Mellow


I think it was a donkey punch
DrafterX Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
ya prolly... cause that's what I heard too.... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
poor donkey. I heard vic isn't allowed in mexico anymore
victor809 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
poor donkey. I heard vic isn't allowed in mexico anymore


On the upside, the donkey keeps my place warmer.
HockeyDad Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,164
victor809 wrote:
I guess my point is the same one I give the people whining minimum wage needs to be raised. If things are too expensive for you, get another job. ;)


On the minimum wage debate, you were against the government mandating a cost increase. Here you are in favor of the government mandating a cost increase.
teedubbya Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
victor809 wrote:
On the upside, the donkey keeps my place warmer.


you must be able to get a large portion of your body in to that donkey
cacman Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
BuckyB93 wrote:
I was just looking at my electric bill last night and noticed some fine print. If I pay by mail, they charge me $6.00 processing fee but I can get it waived if I pay on-line.

WTF is up with that?

Watch out for that "Online Processing Fee".
victor809 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Not a mandated cost increase. Mandated quality. I'm against arbitrary costs on labor regardless of quality or output. I'm okay with mandated lower emissions (as pollution is a shared cost across society) even if it increases cost.
BuckyB93 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,227
Now that just doesn't make sense.

Mandated cost increase - bad.
Mandate something arbitrary that leads to cost increase - good.
victor809 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
If there was a significant societal cost to low quality burgers, then there's a justification.

There are a number of profitable activities which have costs which are not incurred directly by the producer (pollution is the most text book). If you don't either restrict or tax those costs a producer will maximize them to maximize profit.
DrafterX Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
I wonder if it's still free to kill bald eagles with a windmill.... Think Think
victor809 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
I wonder if it's still free to kill bald eagles with a windmill.... Think Think


Depends on if you classify bald eagles as a resource.
DrafterX Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
victor809 wrote:
Depends on if you classify bald eagles as a resource.



well... I heard the first lady does... Think
BuckyB93 Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,227
So you’re telling me there is well documented and accepted cause and effect between carbon emissions from US power plants and asthma, global warming (or whatever it’s called now) and the other stuff the politicos are saying?

C’mon Victor, I wouldn’t think you would actually fall for this stuff.

“Obama later made a similar case in a conference call with the American Lung Association, noting that power plant pollution contributes to asthma and other diseases suffered by American kids, especially black and Latino youngsters.”

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/02/politics/epa-carbon-emissions/
teedubbya Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Sriracha has finally made peace with the California town where it makes much of its super popular chili sauce. For several months, Irwindale residents and lawmakers were claiming that the Huy Fong Foods factory was creating peppery fumes, that were giving neighbors headaches, irritating their eyes, and hurting their throats. Now, local legislators are dismissing a proposed bill the would have declared the factory a public nuisance and shut it down.

Mayor Mark Breceda and city council members unanimously voted to dismiss the bill, "We have to keep employment in Irwindale. We have to expand. It's good for Irwindale. It's good for California," Breceda said.

The Sriracha factory is working to make sure it doesn't bother residents anymore. They have upgraded their air filtration system, which means less fumes, which means fewer watery eyes and sneezes.

During the stand off between the town and Huy Fong Foods, the hot sauce maker received bids from two dozen other towns to move their factory there. It looks like other places would have happily dealt with the fumes for the extra jobs. The factory employees 70 full-time employees and 200 seasonal workers, producing 20 million bottles of hot sauce a year. Employees were concerned that the politicians would interfere with Sriracha's future in the town, affecting their livelihoods.
DrafterX Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
Tabasco is making it in Texas now anyway... they may as well close shop... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
tobasco sucks compared to Sriracha
DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
Haven't tried it..

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2014/05/27/tabasco-quietly-releases-their-own-sriracha-hot-sauce/

Mellow
victor809 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Buck... Who cares about asthma and all that stuff?

Im just talking externalized costs. If you don't think there are any, then buy a home next to a smog spewing power plant at normal market rate....

A lot of business activities have costs which the business doesn't have to pay. Whether they're environmental, property values, infrastructure related.... A smart business will externalize as many costs as they can to maximize profit. Since it's completely appropriate for a business to try to maximize the cost to the public, vs their own cost, it's smart for the public to maintain a limit on the externalization of these costs.
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
didn't know that. I wonder if their plant belches fumes into the eyes of people and stuff.
DrafterX Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
victor809 wrote:
Buck... Who cares about asthma and all that stuff?

Im just talking externalized costs. If you don't think there are any, then buy a home next to a smog spewing power plant at normal market rate....

A lot of business activities have costs which the business doesn't have to pay. Whether they're environmental, property values, infrastructure related.... A smart business will externalize as many costs as they can to maximize profit. Since it's completely appropriate for a business to try to maximize the cost to the public, vs their own cost, it's smart for the public to maintain a limit on the externalization of these costs.



to a point.... then the business shuts down and moves away and the people are screwed... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Yes. But if the business is screwing everyone in the state, are the people in a county justified in keeping it just to maintain their jobs?
DrafterX Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
teedubbya wrote:
didn't know that. I wonder if their plant belches fumes into the eyes of people and stuff.




Texans don't care.... they're used to sand and steers and stuff... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
victor809 wrote:
Yes. But if the business is screwing everyone in the state, ?



how would they do that..??
teedubbya Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
how would they do that..??


politicians do it all the time, what makes you think businessfolk can't?
DrafterX Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
sorry... was still thinking about pollution and stuff.... d'oh!
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