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Last post 9 years ago by Douglasmhines. 118 replies replies.
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So... what do you make of this?
ZRX1200 Offline
#101 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
Commie.....
teedubbya Offline
#102 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'm sorry
TMCTLT Offline
#103 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
I appreciate the answer cacman. Sorry I couldn't get to responding till now.

I understand that it's the state's responsibility to maintain the safety of the road, but that obviously has some limits of reason. My question is simply, if there are no large animals which are supposed to be nearby and could, within reason, be expected to wander over the road, why would the state need to maintain fencing? (Now, don't get me wrong, I have no idea whether there are other cattle ranchers nearby or other herds... if there are, then the entire question is moot, as the state should be keeping the fence to protect from those).

My question about ranges etc is more to find boundaries. It clearly isn't acceptable for a rancher to allow his herd to meander 200mi and walk into the city of Denver, my point is that there is some limit somewhere to what these free range cattle can do. I mean, if they wander into some suburb and start grazing on lawns there has to be some restriction.

Anyway, BLM land is free for the people to use? That's kind of cool. But you do understand there is a signficant difference between for-profit use and recreational use, right? I mean, that's part of the point of taxation, to reduce the chance of over-use. Look into the classic economics concept of "The tragedy of the commons", it's almost the same issue. This rancher is using the land to raise cattle, which he then sells at a profit. From a factory perspective, it's as if he didn't have to purchase his own manufacturing equipment, just used some equipment the state owned. This reduces his capital expenses. Great. But if he can do it, shouldn't every other rancher be allowed to do it? Hell, shouldn't I be allowed to buy a cow and stick it on that land? I could be a rancher without actually having to buy or rent any land. Now, I know it's more complicated than that. but my point is that a tax on for-profit use of public property is completely rational, as it ensures that the land isn't over-used by hundreds of other ranchers all looking to reduce their necessary capital investment and use public space to supplement their private industry.

Now, I don't know the details. I do think Bundy shouldn't be taxed any more or any less than any other for-profit ranchers using public land. But I don't know if we've found any difference there



Now THAT right there IS hilarious.....besides look @ it like everything else you guys view, if he had to pay all those burdensome taxes a steak would cost $100 ( You being a rancher....that was good, I don't usually find myself LOL this early in the morning )
teedubbya Offline
#104 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
TMCTLT wrote:
Now THAT right there IS hilarious.....besides look @ it like everything else you guys view, if he had to pay all those burdensome taxes a steak would cost $100 ( You being a rancher....that was good, I don't usually find myself LOL this early in the morning )



So this one dude (Bundy) drives the cost of beef and no one else pays the taxes?
cacman Offline
#105 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
victor809 wrote:
Hell, shouldn't I be allowed to buy a cow and stick it on that land? I could be a rancher without actually having to buy or rent any land.

You are allowed. But where are you going to put that cow during hunting season and the winter months - your back yard?
DrafterX Offline
#106 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
cacman wrote:
You are allowed. But where are you going to put that cow during hunting season and the winter months - your back yard?



prolly keep it where ever his pony is... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#107 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
Now THAT right there IS hilarious.....besides look @ it like everything else you guys view, if he had to pay all those burdensome taxes a steak would cost $100 ( You being a rancher....that was good, I don't usually find myself LOL this early in the morning )


And once again you completely missed the point of the post.
victor809 Offline
#108 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
cacman wrote:
You are allowed. But where are you going to put that cow during hunting season and the winter months - your back yard?


So you don't see a potential problem with this? I mean, if anyone who has herds of animals they don't want to have to invest the necessary money in can simply store them on gov't land for free, wouldn't that gov't land get a little over-used?

Sure... winter I can ship them somewhere else... but in the summer I have a free ranch-land, right?

I have a suspicion if some other rancher started grazing his cattle on that land Bundy would be just as likely to shoot him as he was the government.
gryphonms Offline
#109 Posted:
Joined: 04-14-2013
Posts: 1,983
BLM manages 155 million acres which are used for grazing. There are certain restrictions. There are about 18 thousand permits and leases.
victor809 Offline
#110 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
So there are rules. I looked online.

Only specific ranches can have this grazing permit. the permit can be transferred to different ranches if desired. The fees are not that bad... $1.35 per Animal Unit Month (I'm guessing that's essentially head of cattle/month)....Looks like most of bundy's outstanding $$ comes from his fines (of $200/head/day) when he stopped paying the $1.35/head/month. That seems bright.

On another note, the $1.35 fee is at the exact MINIMUM level it can be set at per a 1986 law. Bundy's land grazing fees were not outrageously high in 2013.... if anything they were lower than prior years.
gryphonms Offline
#111 Posted:
Joined: 04-14-2013
Posts: 1,983
He has refused to pay his fees since 1993. So this is not a new taxation being punitivly placed on him. There are about 18 thousand other ranchers that pay their fees. Though I imagine there are others that do not.
jetblasted Offline
#112 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Is that why they killed his cows, buried them in a mass-grave & then denied doing it ?
teedubbya Offline
#113 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
jetblasted wrote:
Is that why they killed his cows, buried them in a mass-grave & then denied doing it ?



That was the aliens. Your foil hat must be broken.
victor809 Offline
#114 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
gryphonms wrote:
He has refused to pay his fees since 1993. So this is not a new taxation being punitivly placed on him. There are about 18 thousand other ranchers that pay their fees. Though I imagine there are others that do not.


So let me get this straight...
Bundy is convinced that the public needs to own and maintain (BLM performs testing etc to ensure the land is managed properly, this is a public cost) the land on which he raises his cattle. Sounds like he's a communist.

If Bundy were a true capitalist, he'd demand the land be privatized (I would like to recommend a publicly traded company with majority ownership held by lehockeydad and myself... 20:31) so that he could have the opportunity to pay rent on the land for the rights to use its resources.
DrafterX Offline
#115 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
The aliens musta really hated those cows... Mellow
Thunder.Gerbil Offline
#116 Posted:
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 121,359
jetblasted wrote:
Is that why they killed his cows, buried them in a mass-grave & then denied doing it ?


Are you sure that wasn't the illegals? They came across the border in hang gliders. I know it's true, I read it on cbid.
jetblasted Offline
#117 Posted:
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Thunder.Gerbil wrote:
That was the aliens. Your foil hat must be broken.


Alex Jones told me . . . Mellow
Douglasmhines Offline
#118 Posted:
Joined: 09-04-2014
Posts: 10
jetblasted wrote:
What's the difference of racial stereotypes and regional stereotypes?

It's taboo to say that blacks like watermelon, but it's open season to say that people from alabama **** cows.

Grow the **** up . . .


*ding ding ding*

We have a winner! Btw, agree with you totally.
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