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Obamas on Race: We've Been Treated Like the Help
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cacman Offline
#51 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:23 PM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
DrafterX wrote:
Would racism still exist if they didn't bring it up every day..?? prolly, but what if they didn't... why do they need to keep it alive..?? Mellow
victor809 Offline
#52 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
I feel like it's overplayed that's all... no doubt it exists... and not just with blacks either... I've been told I couldn't use a bathroom before... but it was a very, very long time ago... I think I got over it without suing somebody... Mellow


And now that you mention it, I'll await another poster to jump in and call you a self riotous POS.....

... still waiting....

...huh. Yet all obama did was mention that something happened to him. He didn't try suing anyone.

Face it, this indignation over any time any black person just mentions that life is a little different growing up is pretty disturbing.
teedubbya Offline
#53 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:28 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
they need to just get over it. It's not as if their great or great great grand parents were raped, beaten, killed or had their children taken from them for the same treatment. Its not like their great or grand parents were lynched or not able to go where white folk did...... they now have the vote and their kind (an afican) as prez..... why can't they just get over it? It was a long time ago. They just need to STFU.
DrafterX Offline
#54 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
Why did Obama bring that up anyway..?? Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:29 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
Drafter, maybe they saw your eating habits and didn't want you going all Hiroshima on their can.
victor809 Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
Why did Obama bring that up anyway..?? Mellow


Yeah, he should of just kept quiet about that.
It isn't his place to talk about anything that might make white people uncomfortable.
DrafterX Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
teedubbya wrote:
they need to just get over it. It's not as if their great or great great grand parents were raped, beaten, killed or had their children taken from them for the same treatment. Its not like their great or grand parents were lynched or not able to go where white folk did...... they now have the vote and their kind (an afican) as prez..... why can't they just get over it? It was a long time ago. They just need to STFU.




why do you hate black people..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:31 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I just want them to get over it already
ZRX1200 Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:31 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
We have enough guilt as it is.....Soetoro bullying us and it's not fair.
DrafterX Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:32 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
teedubbya wrote:
I just want them to get over it already


hard to when their taught not to tho.. Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:32 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
ZRX1200 wrote:
We have enough guilt as it is.....Soetoro bullying us and it's not fair.



agreed. they need to get over it. oops.... sorry now STFU
Buckwheat Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:37 PM EST
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
DrafterX wrote:
why do you hate black people..?? Huh


It's not black people it's the black irish. Really, all irish. Sarcasm
jetblasted Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:37 PM EST
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Racism has existed since the dawn of time & will exist until the last days of earth.
teedubbya Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:39 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
yup. so folks should just stfu and accept what they get.
ZRX1200 Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:40 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
Divider in Chief.
teedubbya Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:46 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
damn straight. he needs to tell his people to stfu.
DrafterX Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:47 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
teedubbya wrote:
yup. so folks should just stfu and accept what they get.



poor CROS... Sad
victor809 Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:48 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
One could make a strong argument that the division already existed, just wasnt mentioned at all (because it seems to make some people uncomfortable).

One could also make an argument that actually pointing out the issues which we all apparently know exist but wish people would stop talking about because it makes us uncomfortable, is probably the only way to actually deal with it.

But hey... If just going "lalalalala! Mentioning that the black American experience is different than the white means he's dividing the country!!"/makes you feel better, then cool.
teedubbya Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:51 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Actually every President in my lifetime has talked about this very issue. beleive it or not GWB was fairly articulate on the subject (a rarity). it's not hard to find most other presidents discussing this but for some reason it's not accepable from this one....... prolly because he is uppitty and stuff
teedubbya Offline
#70 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:52 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
but it's been a long time and everything is cool now so STFU
ZRX1200 Offline
#71 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:53 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
You can talk about it without the throwing BS race flags.
ZRX1200 Offline
#72 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:54 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
But I appreciate Victor's need for contempt of others here, it makes me feel cozy.
teedubbya Offline
#73 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:56 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
you wouldn't say that if you were not biggoted towards gay rugby players
ZRX1200 Offline
#74 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 3:57 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
I played rugby......well for one season.

The after parties were um......Ok yeah so what if I am?
victor809 Offline
#75 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 4:02 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Z... I'm just not buying that it's a bs race flag. He's specifically talking about life as a specific race. He didn't call the dude who mistook him for the "help" as racist.

If anything, the people who should be upset are valets and waiters for his use of the somewhat derogatory term "the help".
DrafterX Offline
#76 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 4:06 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
I remember Reagan mentioning it... Somethin about it not being alive today if Sharpton and Jackson weren't keeping it alive... or somethin like that... I don't recall any outrage afterward... Mellow
HockeyDad Offline
#77 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 4:13 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,156
The Obamas should fix me a sammich
victor809 Offline
#78 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 4:16 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
HockeyDad wrote:
The Obamas should fix me a sammich


They did.

Drafter ate it.
DrafterX Offline
#79 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 4:16 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
I could use a sammich about now... Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#80 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 4:20 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
Vic, the same thing happens to Hispanics and Crackers.

It's his perception of his experience. I will say his example in this recent story is more believable than Moochelles. Her example was helping reach an item on a shelf, and how that person didn't see her as the first lady, but someone who could help her. And she put that out as a bad thing. Helping someone in that situation is something everyone should see as a good thing, I help people like that every day.

But hey, that's just my perception of my experience.
jetblasted Offline
#81 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 4:24 PM EST
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
I'm with Z on this ...
DrafterX Offline
#82 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 4:34 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
Think
so, M Obama hates short people..?? Huh
jetblasted Offline
#83 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 4:38 PM EST
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
Apparently so ... Along with public school kids, too Mellow
TMCTLT Offline
#84 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 4:40 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
sigh.

Acknowledging problems that do exist isn't "driving a wedge". The wedge existed already. He isn't making racism worse, he's (barely occasionally) pointing it out.

From our standpoint it looks like it's getting worse. Because we're old white men. Prior to anyone pointing out the problems that exist, things are great for us. Because we're on top. From the standpoint of individuals who aren't old white men, those problems always existed.

And if you think his statement was delivered with "much intent" then what do you think the intent was? Assuming that the statement was true (and lets be honest, the professional black man mistaken as a waiter/valet in a fancy place is such an accepted trope it shows up in mainstream movies... it isn't like obama stated something which people haven't pointed out before) then what is his malicious intent in stating something which is true?




Who the F*ck is WE'RE.....cause I don't feel like I'm "On Top" I Willingly work my ass off ( self employed since 91 ) and have Never received a dime in Social welfare bennies, and am sick and tired of the folks who continue to walk through life with White Mans Guilt. Perhaps when they drop " Black " or " African " from simply referring to themselves as AMERICANS just like the rest of us we can move forward. After all we've been conditioned to be " Color Blind " but every time it seems we've reached that point some angry ( turn a buck from my peoples) turd like Sharpton or Jackson vs tart their Racist bull**** all over again. They DO NOT want things to change....their gravy train would stop dead on the tracks.....
victor809 Offline
#85 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 4:40 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
ZRX1200 wrote:
Vic, the same thing happens to Hispanics and Crackers.

It's his perception of his experience. I will say his example in this recent story is more believable than Moochelles. Her example was helping reach an item on a shelf, and how that person didn't see her as the first lady, but someone who could help her. And she put that out as a bad thing. Helping someone in that situation is something everyone should see as a good thing, I help people like that every day.

But hey, that's just my perception of my experience.


I agree, I thought Michelle Obama's (seriously... why resort to name calling in this case?) example was probably completely innocent, especially given that she wasn't dressed in a red polo shirt in the picture I saw (I'm assuming the picture was from the same instance, but I don't know). However, there's something to be learned there as well. If I'm standing in a store and someone asks me to get something off the shelf, my first assumption is NOT that they think I work there or that they think I don't belong there as a customer. But we have the privilege of growing up in a society where nobody would make that first assumption about us. We have assurance that if someone asks us that, they are just asking us to help them out. I imagine having to second-guess any myriad of interactions to wonder the intention of the person would get tiring... it would probably oversensitize a person to these situations. And yes, I know your next statement is going to be "Big deal, that doesn't seem like such a hardship"... but that's just one facet that's being discussed right now and not the totality of the issue.
jetblasted Offline
#86 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 4:48 PM EST
Joined: 08-30-2004
Posts: 42,595
A co-worker of mine is currently at this very moment going OFF about Mrs. Obama's experience at a Target.

Geez
victor809 Offline
#87 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 4:48 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
Who the F*ck is WE'RE.....cause I don't feel like I'm "On Top" I Willingly work my ass off ( self employed since 91 ) and have Never received a dime in Social welfare bennies, and am sick and tired of the folks who continue to walk through life with White Mans Guilt. Perhaps when they drop " Black " or " African " from simply referring to themselves as AMERICANS just like the rest of us we can move forward. After all we've been conditioned to be " Color Blind " but every time it seems we've reached that point some angry ( turn a buck from my peoples) turd like Sharpton or Jackson vs tart their Racist bull**** all over again. They DO NOT want things to change....their gravy train would stop dead on the tracks.....


Dude... you do realize that you working hard doesn't mean anything, right? There is an inherent advantage in our society that comes with having white skin. Whether you properly exploited that advantage is your own business. Me? I've taken advantage of every privilege I've had my entire life. My privileges have gotten me out of trouble when I should have been screwed, they've turned around my life when it should have dead-ended due to my own stupidity.

Just thinking that you must have it bad because you work hard isn't really looking at the larger picture.
DrafterX Offline
#88 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 5:00 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
jetblasted wrote:
A co-worker of mine is currently at this very moment going OFF about Mrs. Obama's experience at a Target.

Geez



I hadn't heard about this until today.... Wondering why she needed to conduct this test in the first place... Think
ZRX1200 Offline
#89 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 5:07 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
No Moochelles expressing oppression outrage, you wouldn't understand what it's like to be a tall person Drafter....

Vic I call her that to honor my Uncle Rickmaven.

This is a strawman to divide Amerika. For Victor it's a pipig in a poke. For me it's a chuckle behind my buckle.
TMCTLT Offline
#90 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 5:15 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
Dude... you do realize that you working hard doesn't mean anything, right? There is an inherent advantage in our society that comes with having white skin. Whether you properly exploited that advantage is your own business. Me? I've taken advantage of every privilege I've had my entire life. My privileges have gotten me out of trouble when I should have been screwed, they've turned around my life when it should have dead-ended due to my own stupidity.

Just thinking that you must have it bad because you work hard isn't really looking at the larger picture.




I never said I thought I " had it bad " because I work hard...it is my Willingness to work hard that has allowed me to get where I am...Not my skin color!!! Sell your bull**** somewhere else....we sit in this country of possibilities, with a Black President....Black Professors.....Black CEO's....and don't you find it the least bit interesting that in the private business sector, Professional sporting teams ARE ALLOWED to hire ( via the draft) The Very Best that $$ can buy.....yet in Corporate and blue collar America we need " quotas " in place to ensure that were not giving the IMPRESSION of Racism or stacking the proverbial deck in favor of whitey....Time To Move On
cacman Offline
#91 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 5:16 PM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Think the "O's" forgot one thing…They are the help! Their job IS to serve the American people.
DrafterX Offline
#92 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 5:18 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
ZRX1200 wrote:
No Moochelles expressing oppression outrage, you wouldn't understand what it's like to be a tall person Drafter....



She must really hate Wheel then.... Mellow
ZRX1200 Offline
#93 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 5:24 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
Carl, exactly
DrafterX Offline
#94 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 5:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,559
I'm still waiting for someone to serve me up my sammich damnit..!! Mad
Abrignac Offline
#95 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 5:32 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,306
DrafterX wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone to serve me up my sammich damnit..!! Mad


Where's CROS......
HockeyDad Offline
#96 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 5:32 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,156
No sammich here either. Prolly because I'm caucasian.
victor809 Offline
#97 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 5:46 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
I never said I thought I " had it bad " because I work hard...it is my Willingness to work hard that has allowed me to get where I am...Not my skin color!!!

I always find it odd when people say this. There is so much packed into a person's racial background in our society that I would argue there is almost no chance that is true. From advantages in early schooling, to financial opportunities due to parent's wealth there is almost nothing in our life that "being white" hasn't touched, including your career. It isn't a crisis to acknowledge that... hell, I find the advantages I've been given to be hilarious.

Quote:

Sell your bull**** somewhere else....we sit in this country of possibilities, with a Black President....Black Professors.....Black CEO's....and don't you find it the least bit interesting that in the private business sector, Professional sporting teams ARE ALLOWED to hire ( via the draft) The Very Best that $$ can buy.....yet in Corporate and blue collar America we need " quotas " in place to ensure that were not giving the IMPRESSION of Racism or stacking the proverbial deck in favor of whitey....Time To Move On

Yeah... a handful of over-paid idiots running around on a football field for your amusement totally makes up for everything. The quota system is an interesting discussion all in itself. But if you think that a handful of high achieving black individuals signals that the entire system is "fixed" and it's time to move on... then you're really short sighted.
TMCTLT Offline
#98 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 5:54 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Victor, let me be clear. I have no idea if you were fortunate to have grown up with the proverbial " silver spoon " but I Did Not!! I was one of five boys raised by two high school drop outs, however and AGAIN my Dad worked his Ass Off to provide as best they could in a single income blue collar family. AND my Dad walked out of that GM plant alongside an equal number of black folks who were afforded the SAME opportunities as My Dad and other white guys. At least be honest enough to admit that No Matter ones skin color IF your willing to work your ass off even without a college degree....you Can make a go of it here. Stop the racial fanning already.
Abrignac Offline
#99 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 6:39 PM EST
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,306
I don't know if anyone else feels the same way, but when I see Paul and Victor courting each other, I think of my daughter's favorite move.


Zazu wrote:
Oh, just look at you two. Little seeds of romance blossoming in the savannah. Your parents will be thrilled what with your being betrothed and all.
victor809 Offline
#100 Posted: Thu, Dec 18 2014, 6:39 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
Victor, let me be clear. I have no idea if you were fortunate to have grown up with the proverbial " silver spoon " but I Did Not!!

One doesn't need to grow up with a "silver spoon" type life to know it's more difficult for others.

Quote:

I was one of five boys raised by two high school drop outs, however and AGAIN my Dad worked his Ass Off to provide as best they could in a single income blue collar family. AND my Dad walked out of that GM plant alongside an equal number of black folks who were afforded the SAME opportunities as My Dad and other white guys. At least be honest enough to admit that No Matter ones skin color IF your willing to work your ass off even without a college degree....you Can make a go of it here. Stop the racial fanning already.

So there's a couple things here that are really interesting.
1 - How does acknowledging that there is a discrepancy = "racial fanning"? I'm not even advocating things change. That's what I really find funniest. I never bother advocating change... why? Well hell, because I'm currently on top. Why would I want an equal playing ground? I just am willing to acknowledge that it's an unequal playing ground. All I ever really want from people is that they act rationally... rationally usually involves not flying into a fit when anyone points out that some facets of society have it worse than others.

2 - You believe that pointing out that your dad, a high school drop-out, working at a GM plant alongside black workers is proof that you can make a go of it regardless of skin color. So, I think you're part right. Sure, anyone can get a job and work, and maybe make a living, you're correct. But I'd be curious to know how many of those black people your dad was working alongside were high school dropouts. My point is never that people can't make it. My point is simply that some people have to jump through more hoops than others to make it the same distance.
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