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bgz Offline
#51 Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2016, 9:49 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Brewha wrote:
So where the Bible condones rape, would you think this a Christian value - believed and abided by? I don't.

And if a quater of the worlds religious people (Muslims) are tought to kill as commanded by God - why aren't that doing it?

So if the thought is that crazy people use their religion to justify their acts, I agree.
Or if the case is that religion makes people crazy - well, not so much.

I like to think most all of us are smarter than the scribbling of the goat herders.....


I think you over-estimate the intelligence of humans.

If the average IQ in humans is 100, then that means half of everyone is less than that.

I think there are plenty of people in this world that satisfy both scenarios you provided.

As for your first point... Islam is based off Christianity/Judaism... so there's that.

Just because most Christians aren't die hard fundamentalist who take the literal word of the bible as gospel (nor even actually read the bible for that matter), doesn't mean the people in Islamic countries that govern on it's words do not.
tonygraz Offline
#52 Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2016, 10:12 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,318
bgz- you are apparently believing that all muslims are evil. I can't believe they are all evil, but I will agree that religion is the source of most evil. I certainly do not overestimate the intelligence of humans and I believe ISIS is evil.
frankj1 Offline
#53 Posted: Wed, Mar 16 2016, 11:03 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
bgz wrote:
I think you over-estimate the intelligence of humans.

If the average IQ in humans is 100, then that means half of everyone is less than that.

I think there are plenty of people in this world that satisfy both scenarios you provided.

As for your first point... Islam is based off Christianity/Judaism... so there's that.

Just because most Christians aren't die hard fundamentalist who take the literal word of the bible as gospel (nor even actually read the bible for that matter), doesn't mean the people in Islamic countries that govern on it's words do not.

if 100 IQ is the median, then half of all humans are below that.
victor809 Offline
#54 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 1:53 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Damn... Frank with the statistics slap.
bgz Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 3:01 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
frankj1 wrote:
if 100 IQ is the median, then half of all humans are below that.


Well, if you want to get nitpicky, the average is below 100 in the US :P
tonygraz Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 7:37 AM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,318
I would bet that everyone I ran into or talked to yesterday for the first time was under 100 IQ .
frankj1 Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 7:55 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
bgz wrote:
Well, if you want to get nitpicky, the average is below 100 in the US :P

I'm proud to be in the majority, I think.
teedubbya Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 8:45 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
bgz wrote:
Well, if you want to get nitpicky, the average is below 100 in the US :P



So your original comment was pretty much wrong all the way around?
gummy jones Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 9:07 AM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
Brewha wrote:
So where the Bible condones rape


condones rape?
there is rape in the Bible but i do not see where it is condoned

i think i know of the passage you are speaking but that doesnt seem to fit with the rest of scripture that never condones sex outside of marriage, even when dealing with captive women. if we take it within the context of the law it seems to make more sense.

10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.
teedubbya Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 9:22 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I admittedly do not know much about Islam. I am a Christian who has studied most major religions in college (long ago), and out of personal interest (currently). In short, I don't know ****. If I was not a Christian I think I'd lean Buddhism because I love how mentally healthy it is, and it is very similar to Christianity at it's core (read living Buddha, living Christ if interested in why I think that). I believe in the practice of mindfulness (I'm not good at it yet) which largely sprung out of Buddhism but lacks the religious component.

My church has a multi faith group that meets with people from the other major religions including Islam and Judaism. I've got a few Muslim friends through work, and that group. We talk religion quite a bit. It's hard to find a place for such respectful conversations about faith because emotion and tunnel vision tend to blind when religion is involved. It's the nature of the beast, you have to acept some blindness to have faith, and faith is good. If we are out we have to be aware of where we are and who can hear. It is amazing how closed minded some folks are and how their fear makes them react. Sad really. It is actually the component that fuels some of the violence, and is leveraged by some ****bags.

The best immunization to ignorance and fear is exposure but ironically we tend to go the opposite way and isolate. It is why my church (actually it's broader than our denomination and includes other protestant churches) has such a group. Ours, as well as those from the other faiths participating, believe in reaching out and having a productive dialog because in the end our similarities are much greater than our differences.

I will say my Muslim friends do not have the same interpretation of their religion as bgz does. One thing I certainly never do is tell them what their religion is or what it teaches. I assume they know more about it than I and if I am not careful I will mold it to meet my perception rather than their reality. I will ask them questions and tell them what my religion teaches. And we do disagree on some things. We do talk about terrorism at times, and they have much the same take on it as I do, other than they are much more appalled than I that a group or groups has hijacked their religion for evil purposes and it impacts them directly. Every single day they live with the impact of that. It is not theoretical to them.

I think it's a fair criticism that their "group" isn't more vocal in their condemnation especially since it really impacts them more than it impacts me (Terrorism hasn't really touched me directly other than losing acquaintances\friends in OKC). Then again I'm not sure what I would do in their situation. They have people using their religion for evil at the same time they have people telling them their religion is evil. That is not the religion they are practicing, but they will never convince some of that. They are frustrated. I do tell them they should be more vocal, and some are, but it is a rock and a hard place. I honestly don't know what I would do in their shoes. I'd probably meet with reasonable Christians and Jews for a cup of coffee and conversation, which ironically is what I am doing now.

It's not easy or it would be solved.
teedubbya Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 9:23 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
The whole condoning rape thing escapes me too.... maybe he is just saying it's easy for someone who doesn't practice your religion to say it says something it doesn't?
tailgater Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 9:24 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
tonygraz wrote:
I would bet that everyone I ran into or talked to yesterday for the first time was under 100 IQ .


I would bet they could say the same.
tailgater Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 9:25 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
I'm proud to be in the majority, I think.


The majority of half?

Stop now while you're still a head.
bassman45 Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 9:31 AM EST
Joined: 07-05-2009
Posts: 4,095
tailgater wrote:
I would bet they could say the same.



Lol!
bgz Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 10:11 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
TW, that was a good read and a well thought out piece.

I come from a fairly religious family, and I have heard similar sentiments over the years. I wasn't born with my beliefs, and wasn't raised to believe what I believe, ironically, it was my desire to learn more about religion after learning more about science that lead to it.

One thing I've learned about religions, is you kind of have to put your mind in a place to match the time they were written. So many passages are written so vaguely that they are open to vastly different interpretations.


On a side note...

About being wrong about the average IQ, I don't know what it is exactly, but I do know it's within 1 standard deviation of 100.
Brewha Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 10:58 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
gummy jones wrote:
condones rape?
there is rape in the Bible but i do not see where it is condoned

i think i know of the passage you are speaking but that doesnt seem to fit with the rest of scripture that never condones sex outside of marriage, even when dealing with captive women. if we take it within the context of the law it seems to make more sense.

10 When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.

Deuteronomy 22:25-29

25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Looks like if you see a virgin you like, just rape her, and she has to marry you....
teedubbya Offline
#67 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 11:21 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
bgz you seem to have an open mind and I respect that whether we agree or not.

Any religion you choose takes practice and time. Without those, it's hard to understand the religion. A superficial look may lead to more study and understanding, or could actually prove destructive and lead to wrong assumptions. I understand Christianity much better than any other religion because of practice and time among other things.

I'm trying to learn more about others not to convert, but to better understand who and what they are. I am amazed at the people that will not interact and learn more about other religions because theirs is right and to be exposed to other religions could result in catching the evil. If your faith is correct you (the royal you, none of this is directed at bgz) have nothing to fear from learning and exposure, in fact it should strengthen your faith. Beware of those that preach avoidance, it's a classic brain washing technique used by cults among others.

I certainly understand Christianity better than my Muslim friends do. I assume the opposite is true. If they believe it does not preach killing of infidels etc, I believe them, it's not a grand conspiracy. If they say mainstream Islam is not about hate and killing and a very small percent of freaks pervert it to say that I tend to believe them. I could be wrong in doing so, but would much rather live with the mentality of taking their word for it then calling them misinformed or lying about their own religion. It also seems to be more likely than not likely. Again, its an opinion and I could be wrong. If I am we are pretty much doomed anyway.

I do believe closing that gap is the key to peace, and it must start at the individual level then spread. It will not happen in my lifetime, for many generations, and perhaps never. But it's my hope and what I will teach my kids.

As an aside, I love studying the history of the religions as much or more than the specific teachings.... ie the actual life of Jesus, or Abraham and his sons and how their life led to different religions and/or sects etc.

One of the coolest things about the bible to me is how it maintains the old testament yet morphs into Jesus' teachings which at times admonish or contradict the old testament. Someone who doesn't understand this could take a passage out of the old testament out of context and misrepresent Christianity.

Meh now I'm ramblin
victor809 Offline
#68 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 11:39 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Brewha wrote:
Deuteronomy 22:25-29

25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Looks like if you see a virgin you like, just rape her, and she has to marry you....


Well... I mean, it's gonna cost you 50 silver and you're forced to be married to her.

So it isn't like you're getting away scott free.
gummy jones Offline
#69 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 11:46 AM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
Brewha wrote:
Deuteronomy 22:25-29

25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. 26 But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbor, and slayeth him, even so is this matter: 27 For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her. 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Looks like if you see a virgin you like, just rape her, and she has to marry you....


i am not sure that is condoning anything but rather a punishment for a real life scenario.

lets look at it in fullness and context, including some other passages: Exodus 22:16-17 “If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride price for virgins."

in other words, if you have a relationship (consensual or non consensual) outside of marriage you are required to marry her (and in the case of rape never divorce her) unless her father objects. i can only assume many loving fathers objected in the rape case.

but we have to keep in mind that in ancient Jewish culture (as is still the case in much of the world), virginity was prized and it was very hard for a non virgin to find a husband (enter the dilemma of unwed Mary carrying baby Jesus). a woman who was raped would likely be regarded by many as unmarryable (i may have just made that word up). likewise, it would be very hard for a non married woman to support herself and survive.

rape is a sin/crime that strikes a particular chord with me (on the same level as those who harm children) and there is no case where it is justified so please do not interpret anything i say as my assertion that it isnt a big deal.
victor809 Offline
#70 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 11:55 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
gummy jones wrote:
i am not sure that is condoning anything but rather a punishment for a real life scenario.

lets look at it in fullness and context, including some other passages: Exodus 22:16-17 “If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride price for virgins."

in other words, if you have a relationship (consensual or non consensual) outside of married you are required to marry her (and in the case of rape never divorce her) unless her father objects. i can only assume many loving fathers objected in the rape case.

but we have to keep in mind that in ancient Jewish culture (as is still the case in much of the world), virginity was prized and it was very hard for a non virgin to find a husband (enter the dilemma of unwed Mary carrying baby Jesus). a woman who was raped would likely be regarded by many as unmarryable (i may have just made that word up). likewise, it would be very hard for a non married woman to support herself and survive.

rape is a sin/crime that strikes a particular chord with me (on the same level as those who harm children) and there is no case where it is justified so please do not interpret anything i say as my assertion that it isnt a big deal.


Strangely, I think you're hurting the whole "rape is punished" argument.

The chapter brew quoted was in fact a punishment for a crime (50 silver and being forced to stay with her the rest of your life)... one would imply that is the punishment for raping a virgin .

But the chapter you quote from Exodus is a consensual "seduction" basically gives exactly the same punishment (give or take a few silver, as exodus isn't specific as to what the bride price is, or the bride price of virgins is... and then we have to convert that to silver... and time value of money... or something).

If the punishment for raping a virgin is the same as the punishment for consensual sex with a virgin, then is there really a punishment for rape in the bible?
ZRX1200 Offline
#71 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 11:57 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eRwsOAScAHk


Here's the establishment GOP.
gummy jones Offline
#72 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 12:07 PM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
ZRX1200 wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eRwsOAScAHk


Here's the establishment GOP.


yea i read that dudes comments the other day
another elitist deciding what is best for his subjects
he and hilary (amongst many others) deserve each other

luckily everyone eventually dies and tomorrow is another day
Speyside Offline
#73 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 12:08 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I do not like ANY of the establishment. I will vote for Trump because he is NOT part of the establishment. This is the best message I can send. If Trump is not nominated I will vote third party. I WILL NEVER vote for Cruz or Clinton.
bgz Offline
#74 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 12:36 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
We got several topics in this thread (probably my bad)... but anyway, as a followup to the Islam portion of the conversation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fathima-imra-nazeer/isis-islam-quran-literalism_b_5737388.html

I found this opinion piece that sums up why many believe that Islam is dangerous.
Brewha Offline
#75 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 12:39 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
gummy jones wrote:
i am not sure that is condoning anything but rather a punishment for a real life scenario.

lets look at it in fullness and context, including some other passages: Exodus 22:16-17 “If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride price for her and make her his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride price for virgins."

in other words, if you have a relationship (consensual or non consensual) outside of marriage you are required to marry her (and in the case of rape never divorce her) unless her father objects. i can only assume many loving fathers objected in the rape case.

but we have to keep in mind that in ancient Jewish culture (as is still the case in much of the world), virginity was prized and it was very hard for a non virgin to find a husband (enter the dilemma of unwed Mary carrying baby Jesus). a woman who was raped would likely be regarded by many as unmarryable (i may have just made that word up). likewise, it would be very hard for a non married woman to support herself and survive.

rape is a sin/crime that strikes a particular chord with me (on the same level as those who harm children) and there is no case where it is justified so please do not interpret anything i say as my assertion that it isnt a big deal.

Christian or not, of course you don’t feel that rape is not a big deal.

Now I have been told by my local fundamentalist Christian that the New Covenant and New Testament basically supersede Deuteronomy. So this is maybe mute.

But the point is, that just because it is written, does not mean that all Christians take it as doctrine. And this is the case I am making for the Muslims.
teedubbya Offline
#76 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 12:56 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Some people really believe their token vote actually selects primary winners and presidential winners. Our founding fathers were pretty smart to pull that one off.



moot not mute - signed MACS
tonygraz Offline
#77 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 1:01 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,318
tailgater wrote:
I would bet they could say the same.



I'll bet you lost a bet on the Patriots too.
tonygraz Offline
#78 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 1:06 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,318
Speyside wrote:
I do not like ANY of the establishment. I will vote for Trump because he is NOT part of the establishment. This is the best message I can send. If Trump is not nominated I will vote third party. I WILL NEVER vote for Cruz or Clinton.


Hitler was not pa part of the establishment when he got involved in politics.
tailgater Offline
#79 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 6:53 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
tonygraz wrote:
I'll bet you lost a bet on the Patriots too.


You're proving my point.
Speyside Offline
#80 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 9:21 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Comparing Trump to Hitler is absurd.
teedubbya Offline
#81 Posted: Thu, Mar 17 2016, 10:17 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Hitler had big hands?
tonygraz Offline
#82 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 6:23 AM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,318
And a foreign wife ( I think she was German).
Speyside Offline
#83 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 8:03 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Different comb overs.
teedubbya Offline
#84 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 8:24 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
According to Don their junk is different.
gummy jones Offline
#85 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 9:08 AM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
Speyside wrote:
Comparing Trump to Hitler is absurd.


yea but trump says mean stuff sometimes and billions of people can read it online

words hurt bro

lets be honest

thats way worse than just killing a few million



Sarcasm
Speyside Offline
#86 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 9:49 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Apparently not to Tony.
teedubbya Offline
#87 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 9:50 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
In fairness hitter used rhetoric to demonized first then acted on them. And contemporary news accounts during his rise to power said he was just kidding and stuff and once in power wouldn't act on his words.

And he only had one ball and a micro ****.
ZRX1200 Offline
#88 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 10:12 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
He also used riots.....hmm mm who's been doing that lately?
frankj1 Offline
#89 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 12:32 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
it's inevitable that a thread about IL leads to nazi talk.
SmokeMonkey Offline
#90 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 1:40 PM EST
Joined: 04-05-2015
Posts: 5,688
frankj1 wrote:
it's inevitable that a thread about IL leads to nazi talk.


I hate Illinois nazis.
Speyside Offline
#91 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 2:07 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Skokie.
MACS Offline
#92 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 2:17 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,881
frankj1 wrote:
it's inevitable that a thread about IL leads to nazi talk.


Ya know... I really do try to stay out of this forum. Every thread has the usual suspects from both sides, arguing over (essentially) who is effing us the least.

The answer is neither. They're both effing us with an unlubricated, sand paper condom.
teedubbya Offline
#93 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 2:23 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
That's hawt
tailgater Offline
#94 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 2:28 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
That's how friction works.
bgz Offline
#95 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 2:46 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
lol MACS...

Rule 34: If it exists, there is porn of it. No exceptions.
Rule 35: If no porn is found at the moment, it will be made.

Get uploading MACS!!!
frankj1 Offline
#96 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 4:19 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
Speyside wrote:
Skokie.

ACLU took a beating, but they were 100% correct.
Covfireman Offline
#97 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 4:30 PM EST
Joined: 09-03-2015
Posts: 809
Rule 36 search the dark net before you ask someone to make porn .
Covfireman Offline
#98 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 4:47 PM EST
Joined: 09-03-2015
Posts: 809
Read about the early 17th century Europe. You can see some atrocities committed by Christians. Catholic on anyone none catholic, Protestants on anyone not protestant and on protestants who dressed differnt ( Lutherans and Mennonite come to mind on the last one . The pope had all of Europe in a Holy War . Lol even now we just now have had 5 years? Of peace in Ireland. So the whole Christians don't use religion for evil is BS . Don't say we'll those people weren't Christians because the Muslims can say the same. And for a bible verse .

“‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Violence death and all that .
bgz Offline
#99 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 7:57 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
Covfireman wrote:
Read about the early 17th century Europe. You can see some atrocities committed by Christians. Catholic on anyone none catholic, Protestants on anyone not protestant and on protestants who dressed differnt ( Lutherans and Mennonite come to mind on the last one . The pope had all of Europe in a Holy War . Lol even now we just now have had 5 years? Of peace in Ireland. So the whole Christians don't use religion for evil is BS . Don't say we'll those people weren't Christians because the Muslims can say the same. And for a bible verse .

“‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Violence death and all that .


I don't think anyone is arguing that the Inquisition, Dark Ages, Crusades and other post-Constantine campaigns didn't happen.

We're talking about the current batch of religious fundamentalists stirring up all the chit.
Speyside Offline
#100 Posted: Fri, Mar 18 2016, 9:49 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Agreed Frank.
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