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Last post 8 years ago by Brewha. 86 replies replies.
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Obama and his Supreme Court Appointment
DrMaddVibe Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,554
I think that the GOP are **** up royally.

This current nominee...while not perfect has already passed through the gauntlet...they would be fools to not hold an up/down vote.

I stand by what he had to say also as a President its the job of the office to appoint a successor when it happens. There's NOTHING in the Constitution about lame duck sessions and not allowing the process to move forward. That's for the morons and hacks that want to keep this political. Let those morons yip and yap their asses out of a job and off some sweet committee chairs.

Applause
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
Think
Didn't Obama & Biden say no to a lame duck appointment a few years back..?? Huh
ZRX1200 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Yes they did.

And when NOT specified in the Constitution they usually go by precedent. And others have refused what the R's are doing right now.

Is it right? I think that's what should be discussed by the public.
rfenst Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,431
agree w/OP
fiddler898 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
IMHO this is a lose-lose for the Rs. Trump is already dragging the party through the muck, and a refusal to act on the nominee - by most presents, a reasonable nominee - will drag it further if possible. If they think Bernie or Hillary would nominate someone more to their liking, they're even more delusional than they already appear. (And lest anyone think Candidate Kasich would beat either of the Ds, Independent Canidate Trump will spoil that little party..,)
MACS Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,881
I see the issue as the presidents trying to stack the deck in their favor... which both dems and reps do.

- Garland clerked for Justice William J. Brennan Jr., the court’s liberal icon.

IMO, choosing a justice that is likely to side with you on any legal matters is upsetting the checks and balances. Choices should be made based on merit and integrity for the SCOTUS, not politics. This is a political choice. Period.

Yes, as I said, I know they both do it... but like your mom used to say "Two wrongs don't make a right".
bgz Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
I think he was an intelligently thought out and tactical selection.

After reading up on Garland a little, it appears overall he's a pretty fair judge that tends to sit a little left of center.

If the "Rs" fight it, then it makes them look bad.... and might end up with someone worse.

If they just let the process play out, either he's in, and it's not so bad, if he's not, then it gets put off till the next Presidency... in which case wtf knows what you're going to end up with.

A pretty good play by Obama IMO.

I wouldn't call it a lose/lose, as I do believe this guy will give his opinions holding the constitution in the highest of regards, and from what I've read, it appears his rulings tend to be well thought out and fair.

One thing I don't like about him, is he tends to rule against small business interests.
teedubbya Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I get a kick out of the let the people decide in the next election mantra. While I didn't vote for him the people sort of decided this President.
teedubbya Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
And I agree with the OP in this situaiton just as I would have with previous Administrations if congress did the wrong thing then.
DrafterX Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
anything can happen.. if a Dem gets the presidency they will still need approval from the Senate on their nominee... Unless of course the Repubs loose the Senate too.. then all hell will break loose and I'll have to move to Costa Rica... Sad
frankj1 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
ironically, the justices don't always end up reflecting the views of the Prez that nominated them.
victor809 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I was going to post about this and then I stopped.

It's starting to remind me of the prisoner's dilemma. Obama is offering them a pretty reasonable candidate, if they accept.

If they decide to refuse (and btw, wtf are these politicians doing when they keep refusing to do stuff?... do they just not work ever?)... then they're taking a risk with a payoff (Trump or Cruz winning) or a worse failure (Clinton winning... because you know she will choose a much more left leaning justice nominee)... additionally, there is a significant risk that they will have lost a large number of seats due to the insanity in the republican party, making confirmation easier.

Brewha Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
DrafterX wrote:
Think
Didn't Obama & Biden say no to a lame duck appointment a few years back..?? Huh

This is completely different - we are talking about putting a liberal in the suprem court. Which makes it ok....
tonygraz Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,318
If Clinton wins and they don't approve Obama's nominee, she could nominate Obama. Biden did have a good idea when he told Obama he should nominate Cruz and then have 8 more openings in the Supreme Court.
ZRX1200 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
Victor he's reasonable if you don't consider his rulings about gun rights.
gummy jones Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
seeing that a large swath of the media is controlled by the libs im sure that the public will be brainwashed to believe it is "unprecedented" for the repubs not to act

that old clip of biden's speech for congress to refuse any supreme court justice appointee in the final portion of the president's term doesnt seem to get much airplay on most stations

i did chuckle when obamma immediately politicized the issue yesterday during his speech and then chastised congress for potentially doing the same

politics as usual
teddyballgame Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 09-16-2015
Posts: 592
Listening to Obama, I had a problem with this portion of his speech:

"And throughout his jurisprudence runs a common thread -– a dedication to protecting the basic rights of every American; a conviction that in a democracy, powerful voices must not be allowed to drown out the voices of everyday Americans."

The point of a judge is not to adjudicate with a bias towards "the little guy" just because he is not a powerful voice. If the law in on the side of the "powerful voice," then the judgement should be in favor of the powerful voice.

Judges should rule based on the letter of the law and not slanted one way or the other based on the "bigness" or "smallness" of the voice.

The Repubs should do what they say they will do and not even bring him up for a hearing. There is 70+ years of this being done in a presidential election year. And as mentioned earlier, the Dems were spouting this tactic when Bush had 1 1/2 years left in a term.

...But then I always have a problem with the drivel this president spews.
dstieger Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
IDK, gummy. I'm pretty sure that the 'public' isn't going to need the liberal media on this one. The GOP 'leaders' can all keep on screaming "this is NOT hypocritical" until the cows come home. When Hatch and others state that they'd consider holding confirmation hearings "after the election".... not "after inauguration", the calls for letting next president nominate ring pretty hollow. If they'd just come out and say "we're going to continue to maneuver for the best opportunity for conservative court appointment" and not some bullchit about letting the people or next president decide, we'd all be better off.
tailgater Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
This is just self perpetuating petulance.

The republican party isn't being ruined by Donald Trump.
It's being ruined by the childish "leadership".
Of course, there is a mirror image on the left. But we shan't discuss that lest we get labeled as a hater.
gummy jones Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
dstieger wrote:
IDK, gummy. I'm pretty sure that the 'public' isn't going to need the liberal media on this one. The GOP 'leaders' can all keep on screaming "this is NOT hypocritical" until the cows come home. When Hatch and others state that they'd consider holding confirmation hearings "after the election".... not "after inauguration", the calls for letting next president nominate ring pretty hollow. If they'd just come out and say "we're going to continue to maneuver for the best opportunity for conservative court appointment" and not some bullchit about letting the people or next president decide, we'd all be better off.


im not saying whats right or wrong

just that its funny when one side accuses the other of playing politics

i actually liked when the repub statement was that no one will get a trial or a vote - that the people will choose in the next election

now that can be a double edge sword but such is life
teedubbya Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
tailgater wrote:
This is just self perpetuating petulance.

The republican party isn't being ruined by Donald Trump.
It's being ruined by the childish "leadership".
Of course, there is a mirror image on the left. But we shan't discuss that lest we get labeled as a hater.



This.
Speyside Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
The GOP will take a beating for tabling this nomination.
cacman Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
If Garland does get the job, I guess you can kiss your 2nd Amendment rights goodbye.
That fits the Big "O"s agenda…
rfenst Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,431
Speyside wrote:
The GOP will take a beating for tabling this nomination.


this
Brewha Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
tailgater wrote:
This is just self perpetuating petulance.

The republican party isn't being ruined by Donald Trump.
It's being ruined by the childish "leadership".
Of course, there is a mirror image on the left. But we shan't discuss that lest we get labeled as a hater.

So, you're a hater incognito?

Cunning....
bgz Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
ZRX1200 wrote:
Victor he's reasonable if you don't consider his rulings about gun rights.


I only heard about the guy yesterday. After a little more reading about him, I'm not a fan.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,554
Speyside wrote:
The GOP will take a beating for tabling this nomination.



They're going to be non-existent as any sort of a viable entity if they DON'T!


Like I mentioned in the OP...they're going to lose the Senate over this...just watch.
victor809 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
ZRX1200 wrote:
Victor he's reasonable if you don't consider his rulings about gun rights.


Z...

I'm not sure he has a stance on gun rights.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2016/03/conservatives_smear_merrick_garland_as_an_anti_gun_warrior.html

The theme of the above article is simply that anyone telling you he's anti- 2nd Amendment really is basing that on no information. Only really been involved in one gun related case.. an information retention case, with no implication of the 2nd amendment. His only peripheral involvement in a 2nd amendment case he wasn't on the panel, he just requested that the entire court be allowed to make a ruling on that case (as did a conservative judge).

That's not a lot to say he has any opinion on gun rights.

ZRX1200 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
You had me at Slate.
frankj1 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
gummy jones wrote:
- that the people will choose in the next election

no matter who any of us voted for in the last presidential election, the majority voted for the current president.

Shouldn't their votes be what matters?
tailgater Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
So, you're a hater incognito?

Cunning....


I'm a cunning linguist.
victor809 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
ZRX1200 wrote:
You had me at Slate.


Gonna call bias on this one?
Think about it for a second. If you're going to cry media bias you have to be logical....If slate is a liberal media source, then they would be "pro-gun control" and would tout the gun control record of the new nominee.

If you have evidence of his anti-gun stance, then give it to us. I pointed out the evidence I found. If isn't like Slate can change the court records.
tonygraz Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,318
tailgater wrote:
I'm a cunning linguist.


You shouldn't talk with your mouth full.
teddyballgame Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 09-16-2015
Posts: 592
frankj1 wrote:
no matter who any of us voted for in the last presidential election, the majority voted for the current president.

Shouldn't their votes be what matters?



Maybe the republicans are speaking for the 10s of millions that DIDN'T vote in the last presidential election.

Hey, that kind of thinking is what Obama talks about.
frankj1 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
teddyballgame wrote:
Maybe the republicans are speaking for the 10s of millions that DIDN'T vote in the last presidential election.

Hey, that kind of thinking is what Obama talks about.

didn't vote, then shut up. ya have no vote in this either.
sorry Ted.
tonygraz Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,318
He certainly is.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,554
Watch...this is what I predict will happen...

The GOP will stonewall this appointment.

The GOP will lose the Senate.

Clinton will become President (I can't believe I typed that!).

She will nominate the most bat**** crazy liberal judge to come down the pike and there won't be a damned thing anyone can do about it.

Legislation in this nation will be so screwed up and "read" by not just the federal districts but by the highest court in the land.

The GOP will cease to exist as NOBODY will ever trust them to NOT do anything ever again.

So, GOP idiots...run your mouths...collect your fat checks...soak us for the swell Cadillac medical benefits that even our soldiers don't get...collect your fatass retirement for just being elected to NOT do your job or even bother to show up and when you do tag on your pork to a sensible bill and have a nice life.


A Bastille Day is coming and it's going to make a Trump campaign or Black Lives Matter demonstration look like a cartoon. You've managed to piss off America by doing NOTHING.

That's NOT why you were ever elected.
danmdevries Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2014
Posts: 17,522
^Pretty much.

teedubbya Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Or the normal ebbs and flows will happen like always which in the moment seems like a tidall wave but through the eyes of time is more like a little flush which is why our founders built in a few safeguards not the least of which is the electoral college.
gummy jones Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
frankj1 wrote:
no matter who any of us voted for in the last presidential election, the majority voted for the current president.

Shouldn't their votes be what matters?


well its not exactly so that the winner wins the majority vote
but i get your point

voter turnout in our country, in general, is abysmal

teedubbya Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
We need a kardashian at every polling site.
tailgater Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Gonna call bias on this one?
Think about it for a second. If you're going to cry media bias you have to be logical....If slate is a liberal media source, then they would be "pro-gun control" and would tout the gun control record of the new nominee.

If you have evidence of his anti-gun stance, then give it to us. I pointed out the evidence I found. If isn't like Slate can change the court records.


Not sure that a single issue defines one's bias.
Take abortion rights:
"While the deep concern of a woman bearing an unwanted child merits consideration and sympathy, it is my personal feeling that the legalization of abortion on demand is not in accordance with the value which our civilization places on human life. Wanted or unwanted, I believe that human life, even at its earliest stages, has certain rights which must be recognized – the right to be born, the right to love, the right to grow old. When history looks back at this era it should recognize this generation as one which cared about human beings enough.... to fulfill its responsibility to its children from the very moment of conception."

Doesn't sound like a "liberal lion". Does it?

teedubbya Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'd say he wasn't pro gun control to lessen the resistance to him and hopefully get a pro gun control justice in there if that was my bias.
Gene363 Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,870
cacman wrote:
If Garland does get the job, I guess you can kiss your 2nd Amendment rights goodbye.
That fits the Big "O"s agenda…



This is all you need to know. Disarming citizens to make them subject of the government is the end goal.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,554
teedubbya wrote:
Or the normal ebbs and flows will happen like always which in the moment seems like a tidall wave but through the eyes of time is more like a little flush which is why our founders built in a few safeguards not the least of which is the electoral college.



ebb and flow?

If we're talking about tide charts...I'd buy that. Instead we're talking about wars...legislation and shoddy leadership.

victor809 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Not sure that a single issue defines one's bias.
Take abortion rights:
"While the deep concern of a woman bearing an unwanted child merits consideration and sympathy, it is my personal feeling that the legalization of abortion on demand is not in accordance with the value which our civilization places on human life. Wanted or unwanted, I believe that human life, even at its earliest stages, has certain rights which must be recognized – the right to be born, the right to love, the right to grow old. When history looks back at this era it should recognize this generation as one which cared about human beings enough.... to fulfill its responsibility to its children from the very moment of conception."

Doesn't sound like a "liberal lion". Does it?



Uh tail... this was strictly about whether the nominee is pro or anti gun control.
Z was whining that the article I posted (which basically stated he hasn't had a ruling one way or the other on gun control) was a liberal article.

I don't know why you're running off on abortion
victor809 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
I'd say he wasn't pro gun control to lessen the resistance to him and hopefully get a pro gun control justice in there if that was my bias.


That would be clever, if you were writing an article for anti-gun control people. The people that would work on are already not reading slate because of its evil liberal bias. The only thing that evil plan would achieve is make their current audience not want the guy because he isn't anti-gun enough.
cacman Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/16/merrick-garland-has-very-liberal-view-gun-rights/
victor809 Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
cacman wrote:
http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/16/merrick-garland-has-very-liberal-view-gun-rights/


So that's what I'm talking about.

Did you even read that article? They're talking about the same two cases I mentioned, but look at what they are saying:
"In 2007, Garland tried to inflict one of the most restrictive gun laws in the country"....
Look up the 2007 case. He wasn't even involved in the case. The case was only ruled on by 3 judges, none of which was him. Can you seriously trust an article that calls that "He supported the D.C. gun ban in 2007"

It's bs.

Let's look at the other case:
This case is simply a record retention case. The instant background checks put in place are supposed to be destroyed. The FBI was holding them for 6mo (no 90days) and then destroying them (I don't know the reason for holding, I think they argued processing time). The ruling on this case is no different than a HIPAA ruling and has nothing to do with right to bear arms.

Maybe he posts how much he hates guns on his facebook. I don't know...
but claiming he's anti-gun based on those two cases is really kind of stupid and I'd be pretty suspicious of anyone who's making those statements based off that thin evidence.

But hey... if you want to be manipulated, that's your choice.
frankj1 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
gummy jones wrote:
well its not exactly so that the winner wins the majority vote
but i get your point

voter turnout in our country, in general, is abysmal


I know, but Obama actually did get the majority of actual votes cast.

and it bothers the crap out of me when I see voter turnout.
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