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the Repulik of Kalifornia and NY to raise min wage to $15/hr
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Brewha Offline
#51 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 10:39 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
Speyside wrote:
Fork lift drivers lives matter.

We sell robotic fork lifts too.....
DrafterX Offline
#52 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 12:35 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
are they programmed not to impale humans..?? Huh
Brewha Offline
#53 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 1:04 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
DrafterX wrote:
are they programmed not to impale humans..?? Huh

Yes – they are programmed in Urbana Illinois, and no AGV has ever made a mistake of any kind. In fact when people have been impaled it has always been attributable to human error…..
BuckyB93 Offline
#54 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 1:05 PM EST
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,239
Brewha wrote:
We sell robotic fork lifts too.....


Had one at a former place of employment. The thing was a nightmare with all it's glitches. It was laser guided and if the reflectors around the place were off just a bit it would get lost and shut down, if you were near it with certain cell phones it's communications would go all wonky... Total fricking headache.

This was like 15 yrs ago. Maybe they are better now.
BuckyB93 Offline
#55 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 1:07 PM EST
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,239
Brewha wrote:
Yes – they are programmed in Urbana Illinois, and no AGV has ever made a mistake of any kind. In fact when people have been impaled it has always been attributable to human error…..



You forgot to add this.

Sarcasm
Brewha Offline
#56 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 1:12 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
BuckyB93 wrote:
Had one at a former place of employment. The thing was a nightmare with all it's glitches. It was laser guided and if the reflectors around the place were off just a bit it would get lost and shut down, if you were near it with certain cell phones it's communications would go all wonky... Total fricking headache.

This was like 15 yrs ago. Maybe they are better now.

Those were made my our competitor.....

Anxious
DrafterX Offline
#57 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 2:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
Brewha wrote:
Yes – they are programmed in Urbana Illinois, and no AGV has ever made a mistake of any kind. In fact when people have been impaled it has always been attributable to human error…..



poor CROS.... Sad
victor809 Offline
#58 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 3:14 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Brewha wrote:
Oh, you are right about Amazon. My business it so build warehouse automation for them and many others. A big factor in the ROI for a system is not just lowering head count; it is greater operator efficiency and accuracy. So the people with simple tasks get a lot more done and a lot less wrong – they become worth more, while being payed less.

Being able to get more done and less wrong, because on an investment in automation, does not make you worth more. If the task has been simplified and optimized to the point that individual competencies are irrelevant, the opposite is true, you are worth less. It is the infrastructure surrounding you and keeping you from making errors which is so valuable.

Quote:

And it is the job of any business buying labor to get it as cheap as possible – free is best. Think of the boon to the US economy if all workers took a 50% pay cut! We should all be for that – yes?
Businesses are not there to benefit workers; they are there to generate profits. So workers are a necessary evil that are fundamentally opposed to business goals.

Just as "work" is fundamentally opposed to worker's goals. This isn't a surprise to anyone. Businesses would love to have free labor, duh. Just like every worker would love the business have to pay them to do no work. The price of labor is a negotiation between these two groups. This isn't rocket surgery....

Quote:
But there is a social truth here to be reckoned with – If business can drive the cost of their labor as low as they would like, then the workers need government supplements to get by. All workers must earn a living. If they can’t than the business model is not viable and it is the business that is living off the government.


1 - "earn a living" is not a right for all workers. Some people may need to work 60hrs a week to be able to afford food and shelter. Some may need to work 70hrs a week. To assume that any piece of labor required by a company MUST have a value such that someone performing that piece of labor can survive off 40hrs of work a week is ensuring that some work just won't get done. This is the work at the margin, which is not valuable enough to the company to pay minimum rates, but where there is a worker who actually would be willing to do that work for the market value.

2 - Why do you automatically assume that just because a company isn't paying a living wage, the government needs to subsidize the individuals life? Perhaps if this subsidization were not available, the worker would be more aggressive in their negotiation?

Quote:
There will always be pools of poor laborers that are forced to take little to nothing for their work, because something is better than nothing. But we all pay for that in the end.
Meh. I think you're just saying that because you think it sounds pithy.
victor809 Offline
#59 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 3:16 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
poor CROS.... Sad


I heard CROS had some taint-cleaning work he wanted done, but was only willing to pay $1.50...
Since he didn't want to pay the local minimum wage he didn't hire anyone to clean his taint....

...eventually it got HepC and taint-cancer.




.... and that's how CROS ended up in a wheelchair.

Poor CROS
DrafterX Offline
#60 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 3:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
Is that why Brewha tried to kill him with the forklift..?? Huh
victor809 Offline
#61 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 3:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
DrafterX wrote:
Is that why Brewha tried to kill him with the forklift..?? Huh


Prolly....

I hear Brewha is the head of the taint-cleaners union 1533.

Prolly had a hit out on CROS and programmed his forklift to do the deed.
DrafterX Offline
#62 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 3:28 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
That Bassard..!! Mad
Brewha Offline
#63 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 3:37 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
victor809 wrote:
Being able to get more done and less wrong, because on an investment in automation, does not make you worth more. If the task has been simplified and optimized to the point that individual competencies are irrelevant, the opposite is true, you are worth less. It is the infrastructure surrounding you and keeping you from making errors which is so valuable.

They are more productive and a better value. Perhaps “worth” is too subjective.

victor809 wrote:
Just as "work" is fundamentally opposed to worker's goals. This isn't a surprise to anyone. Businesses would love to have free labor, duh. Just like every worker would love the business have to pay them to do no work. The price of labor is a negotiation between these two groups. This isn't rocket surgery....

Negotiation suggests bargaining power on both sides – Many today feel collective bargaining power should be excusive to the business owners.

victor809 wrote:
1 - "earn a living" is not a right for all workers. Some people may need to work 60hrs a week to be able to afford food and shelter. Some may need to work 70hrs a week. To assume that any piece of labor required by a company MUST have a value such that someone performing that piece of labor can survive off 40hrs of work a week is ensuring that some work just won't get done. This is the work at the margin, which is not valuable enough to the company to pay minimum rates, but where there is a worker who actually would be willing to do that work for the market value.

victor809 wrote:
2 - Why do you automatically assume that just because a company isn't paying a living wage, the government needs to subsidize the individuals life? Perhaps if this subsidization were not available, the worker would be more aggressive in their negotiation?

Ah, but workers will have a “living” by hook or by crook. So we allow them in illegally, but subsidies them with schools for their kids, food stamps, etc.
So if you are saying “let them eat cake”, that would be our cake they are eating.
victor809 wrote:
Meh. I think you're just saying that because you think it sounds pithy.

Well, concise seems appropriate.
And thank you -
Brewha Offline
#64 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 3:48 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
victor809 wrote:
Prolly....

I hear Brewha is the head of the taint-cleaners union 1533.

Prolly had a hit out on CROS and programmed his forklift to do the deed.

You’re just upset because you wore our your VHS copy of Road House….
Brewha Offline
#65 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 3:49 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
DrafterX wrote:
That Bassard..!! Mad

Et tu, Brute?
victor809 Offline
#66 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 4:10 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Brewha wrote:
They are more productive and a better value. Perhaps “worth” is too subjective.

But more interchangeable. Their individual value decreases if the job can be performed by an untrained individual.

Quote:

Negotiation suggests bargaining power on both sides – Many today feel collective bargaining power should be excusive to the business owners.

There is a mistake here on both sides. Unions, when limited in scale, provide that bargaining power for workers. Unions, when they become enormous, become no different than a supplier monopoly. As with everything in life, it depends how far you take something.

Quote:

Ah, but workers will have a “living” by hook or by crook. So we allow them in illegally, but subsidies them with schools for their kids, food stamps, etc.
So if you are saying “let them eat cake”, that would be our cake they are eating.
Only if they actually get any cake.

Quote:

Well, concise seems appropriate.
And thank you -

enjoy your cake.... :)
victor809 Offline
#67 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 4:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Brewha wrote:
You’re just upset because you wore our your VHS copy of Road House….


Is it true your union has been blocking the firing of incompetent taint cleaners? :)
DrafterX Offline
#68 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 4:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
I think they have a robot for that now.... but it might impale you when your not looking... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#69 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 4:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I heard that's how CROS lost his second taint....

...poor CROS...
DrafterX Offline
#70 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 4:33 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
How many will Obama-care allow..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#71 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 7:21 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
3 taints per person.
frankj1 Offline
#72 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 7:25 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
DrafterX wrote:
I think they have a robot for that now.... but it might impale you when your not looking... Mellow

make sure your reflector is on just right
victor809 Offline
#73 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 8:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
frankj1 wrote:
make sure your reflector is on just right


You wear a reflector over your taint?

Is that so it doesn't get rrear ended in the dark?
teedubbya Offline
#74 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 8:40 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
My taint don't need no reflector no sun and all.
frankj1 Offline
#75 Posted: Tue, Apr 5 2016, 9:03 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
victor809 wrote:
You wear a reflector over your taint?

Is that so it doesn't get rrear ended in the dark?

nah, it's so the robotic taint cleaner that Brew's company makes can find it...like Bucky said.
Literally a pain in the arse when it gets lost.
Brewha Offline
#76 Posted: Wed, Apr 6 2016, 7:51 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
Bad news Vic. I checked with the deployment group and the U238 Roto Plookers are no longer fitted with ablative taint cleaners. They do have the new chrome reamer auto hone attachment though.

You want I should send you one out?
DrafterX Offline
#77 Posted: Wed, Apr 6 2016, 12:34 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,583
I'm guessing he'd prefer the little mexican dudes working on him... Mellow
gummy jones Offline
#78 Posted: Wed, Apr 6 2016, 12:57 PM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
republik of kalifornia hard at work

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2016/04/06/california-doj-raids-home-of-prolife-activist-behind-planned-parenthood-videos-n2144354
Brewha Offline
#79 Posted: Wed, Apr 6 2016, 5:16 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
DrafterX wrote:
I'm guessing he'd prefer the little mexican dudes working on him... Mellow

I was wondering what Pedro's Lawn Service moved on to.

Poor Pedro.....
Mr. Jones Offline
#80 Posted: Wed, Apr 6 2016, 6:19 PM EST
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,464
#64 by brewha...

Just LMMFAO!!!
victor809 Offline
#81 Posted: Wed, Apr 6 2016, 8:49 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Brewha wrote:
I was wondering what Pedro's Lawn Service moved on to.

Poor Pedro.....


Hey, a job's a job.
Brewha Offline
#82 Posted: Wed, Apr 6 2016, 8:56 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,202
Well, now we know why Pedro prefers to be undocumented.....
frankj1 Offline
#83 Posted: Wed, Apr 6 2016, 9:01 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,252
victor809 wrote:
Hey, a yob's a yob.

fixed it for ya??
ZRX1200 Offline
#84 Posted: Sat, Apr 9 2016, 9:35 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,661
The labor union that led the charge for a $15 minimum wage hike in cities across California is now moving to secure an exemption for employers under union contracts.

The Los Angeles County Federation of Labor buried the exemption on the eighth page of its 12-page proposal for the Santa Monica City Council to review Tuesday while deciding whether to follow Los Angeles and increase the minimum wage.

The loophole would allow employers with collective bargaining agreements to sidestep the wage hike and pay their union members below the proposed $15-per-hour minimum wage.

James Sherk, a research fellow in labor economics at The Heritage Foundation, said the exemption is a union attempt to encourage businesses to unionize by making themselves the only low-wage option as union membership continues to drop off.

“This proposal would force any worker in Santa Monica whose labor is worth less than $15 an hour to purchase union representation in order to hold a job,” Sherk said. “Unions should not be able to selectively exempt themselves from the harmful consequences of the minimum wage hikes they lobby for.”

The move in Santa Monica is not the federation of labor’s first attempt to compound a collective bargaining exemption into a minimum wage increase.

The federation received an outpouring of criticism when it attempted to push the same carve-out for unionized employers after Los Angeles decided to increase its minimum wage from $9 to $15.

“This is hypocrisy at its worst,” the Los Angeles Times wrote in a blistering editorial. “It plays into the cynical view that the federation is more interested in unionizing companies and boosting its rolls of dues-paying members than in helping poor workers.”

Rusty Hicks, the head of the federation, released a statement in May saying that businesses and employees under collective bargaining agreements should have the ability to negotiate a wage below the law’s mandated minimum in exchange for other benefits.

“This provision gives the parties the option, the freedom, to negotiate that agreement. And that is a good thing,” Hicks said.

Hicks told the Los Angeles City Council to thwart the measure’s passage unless the exemption was included, but he ultimately lost the battle after receiving significant backlash for the request.

In Santa Monica, where council members ordered a rewrite of the minimum wage proposal Tuesday night, the exemption stirred no controversy among members. Council members told a local paper the exemption would remain in the final minimum wage proposal.
teddyballgame Offline
#85 Posted: Mon, Apr 11 2016, 3:55 PM EST
Joined: 09-16-2015
Posts: 592
so, you get a job for company X..and not only do you get to make below min wage, you have to pay from your wages into the Union, giving you less money.. brilliant
sd72 Offline
#86 Posted: Mon, Apr 11 2016, 4:18 PM EST
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Sounds like they took a page out of Obamacare.
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