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Louisiana governor signs 'Blue Lives Matter' bill
Burner02 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884

Louisiana’s governor signed a first-of-its-kind bill Thursday afternoon that makes it a hate crime to target police officers and first responders.

Called the “Blue Lives Matter” bill, the measure expands the state’s hate crime law to include law enforcement officers, firefighters and other emergency medical services personnel.

“The overarching message is that hate crimes will not be tolerated in Louisiana,” Democratic Gov. John Bel Edwards told FoxNews.com in a written statement. He added that he has “great respect” for the work that law enforcement officers do and the daily risks they take.

“I thought it was critical that we add protections for the people that protect us,” state Rep. Lance Harris, a Republican, told FoxNews.com.

Harris authored the bill after the murder of Darren Goforth, a 47-year-old Texas sheriff who was gunned down at a gas station “because he wore a uniform.”

The gunman approached Goforth, a 10-year veteran of the Harris County Sheriff’s Office, from behind unloading bullets into him even after the officer fell to the ground.

In many states like Louisiana, there are existing laws covering bias-motivated crimes against people based on their gender, race, religion and sexual orientation.

Under Louisiana’s new measure, anyone convicted of a hate crime-related felony could face up to an additional $5,000 fine and five years behind bars. For a misdemeanor, the punishment comes with a $500 fine and an additional six-month prison sentence.

The “Blue Lives Matter” bill easily passed both state legislative houses.

“The signing of this bill gives us all an opportunity to pause and remember the extraordinary acts by seemingly ordinary people who serve our state as first responders,” State Police Superintendent Col. Mike Edmonson said. “Whereas citizens flee danger, police, fire and EMS personnel run to it.”

But not everyone is on board. The Louisiana chapter of the Black Youth Project 100 purportedly had called on the governor to veto the bill.

Other critics like the Anti-Defamation League have also come out against the bill, arguing that providing protections to law enforcement under the “hate crime” statute is counterproductive.

“Adding professional categories to the current Hate Crimes statute deters efforts from protecting against identity-based crimes,” Anti-Defamation League Regional Director Allison Padilla-Goodman said in a written release. “We are not happy that it is being signed into law.”

In a letter to Edwards, Padilla-Goodman said the bill “confuses the purpose of the Hate Crimes Act.” She also said it “weakens its impact by adding more categories of people who are already better protected under other laws.”

Padilla-Goodman argues that hate crime legislation was created to protect people from discrimination against race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity and gender identity.

“Proving the bias intent is very different for these categories than it is for the bias intent of a crime against a law enforcement officer,” she wrote.

Emails to the Black Youth Project 100 were not immediately returned.



ThumpUp for the bill.
Speyside Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
This protection should be enacted in all states.
MACS Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,833
I don't like the whole "hate crime" theme.

A crime is a crime. Does it really matter what motivated it? Should it matter the color of skin of the victim or assailant? or what clothes/uniform they were wearing, or what their job is?

What we need to do is make the punishment FIT the crime and then stick to it.
frankj1 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,228
so like, murder is murder.
victor809 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Do people understand the purpose of hate crimes laws?

The idea is pretty simple. Whether one likes hate crime laws or not, the idea is simple. They are intended to protect groups that are being let down by the system.... I mean, I'm talking about the classics... Gay bashing being chalked up to just some harmless boys having fun... Cross burnings or other crimes intended to terrorize a community and keep it "in its place"....

With that in mind, it seems odd that one would suggest that a group which is very much part of the system needs additional protection from the system.
teedubbya Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I'm with macs on this one.
frankj1 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,228
teedubbya wrote:
I'm with macs on this one.

that's what I meant to say, I swear.
Covfireman Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 09-03-2015
Posts: 809
teedubbya wrote:
I'm with macs on this one.


me 4
Abrignac Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,329
MACS wrote:
I don't like the whole "hate crime" theme.

A crime is a crime. Does it really matter what motivated it? Should it matter the color of skin of the victim or assailant? or what clothes/uniform they were wearing, or what their job is?

What we need to do is make the punishment FIT the crime and then stick to it.



Exactly.
Speyside Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
A hate crime is double jeopardy in my opinion. If certain groups have this protection than all should. What is the difference if someone is murdered because they are gay, or because they are a fireman? There should be no hate crime laws, murder is murder, enforce the existing laws better, do not create new laws. Since hate crime laws are not going away protect everyone under hate crime laws.
frankj1 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,228
well, not all hate crimes end in murder. Murder is murder, and if the motive was gay hatred, or race hatred, or money for drugs crime gone wrong, it still ended in murder.

But Victor does give some good examples of "everyday" hate crimes that had been considered OK for too long which is the intended purpose of protecting groups on the fringe, or at least outside the cone of protection.

victor809 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I could be wrong (too lazy to look it up right now) but I think it was intended the smell way mandatory minimum sentences are, while still giving judges freedom to apply some judgement in other cases.

If historically judges let it slide (lenient sentencing) when an assault case was against a group that's been abused, while dropping the hammer when the tables were turned, one can see a reason for some of these laws.

It's a great thing to say "make the punishment fit the crime and stick to it" but we don't have control over that. Think about it for a second... Every state has district courts with judges elected from the local population. If you have a population which wants lenient sentences for these sort of crimes , you'll probably get judges who think the same way. The point was to protect groups generally targeted in regions where that targeting is still accepted.

Telling locally elected judges to "do a better job" is a great thought, but it it were my azz on the line I'd want a bit more assurance than that.
victor809 Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
*the smell way = the same way.
DrafterX Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,563
Problem with a hate crime law is it can be applied even if it wasn't the motive... if you smack some guy around on the street in Georgetown cause he flips you off and it turns out he's gay you're screwed... even if the gay guy starts it... he knows he's protected. ... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,228
I think we were all OK with the smell way.
frankj1 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,228
DrafterX wrote:
Problem with a hate crime law is it can be applied even if it wasn't the motive... if you smack some guy around on the street in Georgetown cause he flips you off and it turns out he's gay you're screwed... even if the gay guy starts it... he knows he's protected. ... Mellow

why'd you say Georgetown?
DrafterX Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,563
I heard that's where they hang out.... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,228
see how easy it is to feel ok about some bad stuff?
victor809 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I'm really curious how drafter figures hitting some guy because he flipped you off counts as "he started it"...
cacman Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
victor809 wrote:
I'm really curious how drafter figures hitting some guy because he flipped you off counts as "he started it"...

When I was a teenager that was enough to start a rumble

I'm Italian, so note the flick of the hand under the jaw, or the grasp of the inner elbow while pulling a fist upward.
bluwater1959 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 09-17-2011
Posts: 735

Blu lives do matter....


just saying.... Blu
Burner02 Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
I'm not really hung up on the hate crime terminology and was looking at it from the support for the first responders.

#5 - Really don't think "They are intended to protect groups that are being let down by the system," is the intent of the hate crime laws. Based on this take the lack of care given to our veteran by the VA would be a hate crime.

Hold that thought Vic, you maybe on to something.
DrafterX Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,563
bluwater1959 wrote:
Blu lives do matter....


just saying.... Blu



Laugh
teedubbya Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Burner I think what you are saying is you are ok with it as long as the group is one you prefer. Otherwise you are against it. At least you are honest.
DrafterX Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,563
there should be puppy-dog hate crime laws so people don't hit them in their moufs... Mad
Burner02 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
teedubbya wrote:
Burner I think what you are saying is you are ok with it as long as the group is one you prefer. Otherwise you are against it. At least you are honest.



Not even close "T". I could really care less what color one's skin is. You do the crime, you do the time whether you are white, black, red, yellow or any other color you think of.

Something you can say with certainty is that I am pro military and law enforcement and I will not be apologizing for it anytime soon.

Since you opened up the Fri morning opinions, I will do the same. Seems that you and Vic are alike in that you both like to talk a lot and stir up ****. Carry on.
Gene363 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,842
MACS wrote:
I don't like the whole "hate crime" theme.

A crime is a crime. Does it really matter what motivated it? Should it matter the color of skin of the victim or assailant? or what clothes/uniform they were wearing, or what their job is?

What we need to do is make the punishment FIT the crime and then stick to it.


+1
MACS Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,833
frankj1 wrote:
well, not all hate crimes end in murder. Murder is murder, and if the motive was gay hatred, or race hatred, or money for drugs crime gone wrong, it still ended in murder.

But Victor does give some good examples of "everyday" hate crimes that had been considered OK for too long which is the intended purpose of protecting groups on the fringe, or at least outside the cone of protection.



I disagree. If you beat up a straight guy or a gay guy... it's assault and battery. Period. White or black, guy or girl, liberal or conservative... does not matter.

It's a crime. One should be sentenced for the crime, and made to do the appropriate amount of time or pay the commensurate fine, whatever.

This could get stupid. Lets say two guys get in a fight. The one being a complete jackass is gay and gets whooped... and then he screams "hate crime". It adds too much bullsh*t, when all you have to do is enforce the law as it is written.
Speyside Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
MACS, in theory I agree with you. Unfortunately hate crime laws are here to stay. That is why I think all should be protected by hate crime laws.
banderl Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
Aren't there already laws regarding assaulting first responders?
DrafterX Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,563
I think so... it's called Capital Murder and you get to die for it... as you should... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
MACS... How do you intend to ensure that the person sentenced for the crime does the appropriate amount of time?

It's really feel goody to say that, but when the rubber meets the road, how would you actually make what you say happen?
MACS Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,833
banderl wrote:
Aren't there already laws regarding assaulting first responders?


Yes. It's a subsection of assault.

Just as 'assault under color of authority' is a subsection. Cops who beat people needlessly are charged with this.

As I said, if we just enforce the laws we already have FAIRLY, we would do well.
MACS Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,833
victor809 wrote:
MACS... How do you intend to ensure that the person sentenced for the crime does the appropriate amount of time?

It's really feel goody to say that, but when the rubber meets the road, how would you actually make what you say happen?


It isn't up to me. It's up to the courts. We, as a society, should be demanding our courts deal with criminals properly. When you got a murderer doing 8 years, and a child molester doing 3 months... something is wrong.

There is a 23 year old guy in our jail right now. Convicted of lewd acts with a child under 14. 3 months.

That is a travesty of justice. The reverse is true. Guys dealing dope doing 4 years. Which is worse, in your mind?
victor809 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
MACS... We have a big country. And until recently if you left it up to the society in some regions, beating certain people wasn't considered as bad as beating others. So again, how do you in California ensure that Alabama judges don't reflect local "society" opinions regarding assault on specific groups?
DrafterX Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,563
Isn't that what Rev Al does..?? Huh
MACS Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,833
victor809 wrote:
MACS... We have a big country. And until recently if you left it up to the society in some regions, beating certain people wasn't considered as bad as beating others. So again, how do you in California ensure that Alabama judges don't reflect local "society" opinions regarding assault on specific groups?


What are we doing with the 'hate crime' laws? Enacting a law so the retarded judges will enforce the laws we already have? If they're ignoring one, what makes you think they won't ignore the other?

Hold the lawyers/courts/judges accountable for enforcing the laws we have. Don't make new ones... fire their asses when they don't enforce the old ones.
Stinkdyr Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
MACS wrote:
I don't like the whole "hate crime" theme.

A crime is a crime. Does it really matter what motivated it? Should it matter the color of skin of the victim or assailant? or what clothes/uniform they were wearing, or what their job is?

What we need to do is make the punishment FIT the crime and then stick to it.




+ 1000

Applause
Stinkdyr Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
cacman wrote:
When I was a teenager that was enough to start a rumble

I'm Italian, so note the flick of the hand under the jaw, or the grasp of the inner elbow while pulling a fist upward.



I jokingly did this in the presence of a former gf and her mom. The mom turned out to be a NJ wop.
Needless to say, that relationship did not last much longer. Oh well.

Herfing
frankj1 Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,228
Stinkdyr wrote:
I jokingly did this in the presence of a former gf and her mom. The mom turned out to be a NJ wop.
Needless to say, that relationship did not last much longer. Oh well.

Herfing

eventually you would have done it for real...you saved a lot of time IMHO
teedubbya Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Burner02 wrote:
Not even close "T". I could really care less what color one's skin is. You do the crime, you do the time whether you are white, black, red, yellow or any other color you think of.

Something you can say with certainty is that I am pro military and law enforcement and I will not be apologizing for it anytime soon.

Since you opened up the Fri morning opinions, I will do the same. Seems that you and Vic are alike in that you both like to talk a lot and stir up ****. Carry on.



I disagree with vic on this one.

A crime is a crime.

I'm anti affirmative action of any type as well. Many will agree with me on that one until you bring up veterans preference etc. It turns out many think they are against hate crimes, affirmative action etc when in effect they just disagree with the current iteration or who they perceive it befitting. When it's a group they prefer they consider it doing the right thing or necessary. When it's a group they don't prefer (not hate or dislike.... just not their preference) its outrageous. It's selective yet if you don't really think about it you cloak it as common sense, necessary etc.

Qualifications are qualifications and a veterans relevant experience should certainly be weighted appropriately as should anyone's. But when you move past that to weighing it more heavily due to patriotism, recognizing the politicos farked things up and put them unnecessarily in harms way, recognizing a glut of them coming back and wanting to help them to feel good etc. you have moved into the same justifications as those trying to benefit their preferred social group under affirmative action.

It's human nature. I do it to. I'm just willing to admit it.

You want the punishment for any given crime to be more severe if it is directed towards a group you like, respect, identify with, feel are underprotected and/or support than if it is towards one you hold in lower regard. You can even justify it as a preventative or in the case a response to another group doing wrong. The folks you disagree with believe the same thing from their side. Whatever it's cool. You support first responders at a higher level than the black lives matters group. Truth be told so do I. But if not exactly the same it is very very similar.

Happy memorial day LOL.
teedubbya Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
By the way I'm not assigning a value judgement.... I'm the same as you.

Hurting a policeman while on duty (or not) should have higher level of punishment because they have a target on their back and have authority that should be respected.

A policeman hurting a citizen (black or otherwise) unjustly should have a higher penalty because they have authority and they abused it.

A policeman hurting a black citizen should have a higher penalty because they have been targeting black people since and before emancipation.

White people have a history of targeting black people in this country and therefor to stop it white people hurting black people should be punished more heavily.

Black people do more violence toward black people today therefor black on black violence should be punished more heavily.

Insert gay, brown, green eyed, male, female etc to all of the above. Agree with some disagree with some.

Meh.... maybe we should just punish the crime and not weigh in on who it was against as a factor. The only reason things are so complicated is to manipulate perceived social issues which is in no way neutral and is driven by preference and bias. All justified by what you feel is right. You can not comprehend a black person feeling blacks are targeted and thus justifying the black lives matter position to the point they believe the all lives matter counter argument is offensive. I can't either and think they are wrong. Yet they believe they are so right. Is it possible you believe you are so right about something but really are doing the same thing they are.

When you wander in to the zone of differentiating it's like being a little pregnant.
victor809 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
T... I'm not saying to have hate crime laws. I'm just trying to get to the root of why they are in place now (and asking if that appropriately compares to the status law enforcement already has in society, especially within the legal framework)

MACS - how do you expect to fire elected judges? Most normal crime is prosecuted at the state level. The people who would be responsible for firing the judges are the same people who chose them (possibly because they will enforce certain crimes against certain groups differently). Again, given that states have the right to run their state, how do you in California ensure that yahoo judges in Alabama don't consistently hand out minimum penalty for certain crimes while dropping the hammer on other groups?

This started (to my thin understanding, so feel free to correct me) with allowing the federal government to prosecute hate crimes, probably because in certain states these crimes were being handled by locally elected judges who had a lot of the same opinions as the people committing the crime. That's much different than just "adding more laws for judges to ignore" as you're changing the judge handing out the sentence.
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
V discrimination is alive and well despite what you may read in here. There are legitimate reasons folks pushed and push hate crime legislation. Their very well be a legitimate problem but it's not the solution, it's at best a feel good thing. It actually perpetuates things. People want an easy answer. There isn't one.


Real cultural change is grass roots and takes exposure, education, and time. There is no substitute. Unfortunately not everyone will benefit immediately or directly. Welcome to reality. These types of things are attempts at immediate gratification or the facade of doing something while in reality they are often ineffectual or worse more damaging causing a bigger wedge.

good intentions maybe, poor execution.
MACS Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,833
2 words for you: sentencing requirements.

Minimums and maximums based on the crime and the circumstances. The president is elected too, and we can fire him if he effs up... ask Nixon.
teedubbya Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Nixon wasn't fired, he resigned. *poke**poke*

I understand there is a bit of a differences and I'm not well versed but my understanding is things like mandatory sentencing and three strikes etc have not worked out well. Is it possible using what you call sentencing requirements with a floor and ceiling bias could creep in and one group could get mostly ceiling while another gets floor? Or are you talking about codifying everything to the nth degree which is largely not possible and creates a huge unmovable bureaucracy?
victor809 Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
MACS... You miss the local vs federal point.
To the best of my knowledge you cannot do anything about a judge in another state. Only the people who elected him can.
Similarly, you're asking for federally mandated minimum sentences on every crime down to assault.... I thought you were all states rights?
victor809 Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TW... I don't disagree, but I think at the time the law was put in place it likely was necessary. Without it, States could have continued to allow a lot of white on black crime and abuse without blacks having any protection in the system. When it was put in place, it at least allowed these types of crimes the opportunity to have a trial in a court not controlled by the regions of the country where crime against blacks was largely allowed.

I don't fully understand the existence of state laws regarding hate crimes, but I do see how situation could make the federal laws necessary.
victor809 Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
... And TW is right. As long as you have a "minimum and maximum" penalty, whatever that is, some regions will still apply the minimum for crimes against certain groups, and the maximum against others. It does nothing but slightly narrow the difference.
Mr. Jones Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,444
#3 MACS

+1 totally agree
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