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DC's Minimum Wage Increase Going Well....
cacman Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
banderl wrote:
The point is that your bandwagon jumping ass doesn't know that it's called the Stanley Cup Final, not the finals. Look at the ice next time, right near the blue lines.

Ooooh... Mr. Grammar Police. That's absolutely worth calling someone an idiot.

Must be that time of the month...
banderl Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
cacman wrote:
Ooooh... Mr. Grammar Police. That's absolutely worth calling someone an idiot.

Must be that time of the month...



It's has nothing to do with grammar, the last series is called the final. Take it up with the NHL.

If you want to start some crap by insinuating falsehoods against another C-Bidder, be prepared to be slammed for it.
frankj1 Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,228
gummy jones wrote:
isnt that called high school +/- votech?

take it up with my commie friend tailgater. It's his idea.
tailgater Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
banderl wrote:
It's has nothing to do with grammar, the last series is called the final. Take it up with the NHL.

If you want to start some crap by insinuating falsehoods against another C-Bidder, be prepared to be slammed for it.


People often claim that they're just "arguing semantics". Mostly that's not entirely true.
But you actually are.

This might be a first.

tailgater Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
take it up with my commie friend tailgater. It's his idea.


If we can't all be rich, we can be equally poor!
Socialism NOW.
Com-rad.

DrafterX Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
But I don't want to be poor... Sad
cacman Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Layoffs in aisle 4! Retailers are big job killers
Pink is the most fashionable color in retail these days. Unfortunately, that's pink as in pink slips.

Ralph Lauren (RL) was the latest big brand name consumer company to announce layoffs, saying on Tuesday that it was looking to cut about 1,200 jobs -- 8% of its full-time workforce.

That news follows recent layoff announcements from Macy's (M), Nordstrom (JWN) and Walmart (WMT).

Several other retailers -- including Gap (GPS), Sears (SHLD) and J.C. Penney (JCP) -- have announced plans to shut stores, which could lead to even more retail employees being let go.

And then there are the bankruptcies. Pacific Sunwear and Aeropostale both filed for Chapter 11 protection in the past few months. And Sports Authority is going out of business.

Much of the pain in retail is due to the upheaval in the apparel industry.

According to data from the U.S. government, nearly 13,000 jobs have been lost at clothing and clothing accessories stores in the past three months. Fast fashion upstarts are making life more difficult for some of the older mall-based stalwarts.

And more than 38,000 job cuts have been announced in the overall retail sector so far this year, according to data from job placement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas. That's a nearly 40% increase from this time a year ago.

Only the energy sector has announced more layoffs this year, as low crude prices continue to cause turmoil at oil companies.

Credit Suisse analysts estimated in April that this could be the worst year for retail layoffs since 2010.

Still, there are some bright spots for retail workers.

Furniture and home furnishings retailers have added jobs. So have building material and garden equipment stores.
The strong housing market is the reason for that. Home Depot (HD) and Lowe's (LOW) both recently reported solid earnings and sales.

Car dealers and auto parts stores are counted as being part of the retail sector by the government too. Those industries have also been adding jobs.

Despite disappointing auto sales last month, retailers like Advance Auto Parts (AAP), Autozone (AZO) and O'Reilly (ORLY) have held up reasonably well.

But the unemployment rate for the retail sector -- while down from the beginning of the year -- is still 5.4%. That's higher than the overall unemployment rate of 4.7%.

This may be yet another sign of the rise of Amazon (AMZN, Tech30) -- and the impact that online/mobile shopping is having on brick-and-mortar retailers in general.

The so-called nonstore retail sector, a group tracked by the government that includes e-commerce, mail order catalogs and TV infomercials, has added nearly 5,000 jobs so far this year.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/08/investing/retail-job-cuts-layoffs/index.html

---

I'm sure the raise in minimum wage is not contributing to this at all. d'oh!
DrafterX Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
I thought Obama fixed the economy and stuff. ... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
How does that have anything to do with economy or the minimum raise?

Hello... More and more people are buying clothes online. Notice job increases in online retailers.

Notice increased retail jobs in home improvement, garden and furniture... The types of goods not generally purchased online.

It's like you don't even read your own articles.

Do you really have to put me in the position to argue AGAINST minimum wage with brew and tony, and then AGAINST stupid articles blaming everything on minimum wages with you?
dstieger Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Not to worry...Trump is going to create SOOOO many....so VERY many jobs
MACS Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,833
dstieger wrote:
Not to worry...Trump is going to create SOOOO many....so VERY many jobs


Yeah... so is Hillary, right? Or Bernie?
cacman Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
victor809 wrote:
How does that have anything to do with economy or the minimum raise?

Hello... More and more people are buying clothes online. Notice job increases in online retailers.

Notice increased retail jobs in home improvement, garden and furniture... The types of goods not generally purchased online.

It's like you don't even read your own articles.

Do you really have to put me in the position to argue AGAINST minimum wage with brew and tony, and then AGAINST stupid articles blaming everything on minimum wages with you?

So you are OK with killing retail stores and forcing everyone to buy everything online? Say good-bye to small business and the mom & pop shop on the corner.

You are so near-sighted it's difficult to even debate with. Maybe you should re-read the article and look at the bigger picture. I only suggested that raising the minimum wage could be contributing to this trend. Replace employing a human with a machine - in this case a computer with an internet connection.

The increase in home improvement, gardening, furniture, and auto repair is because people are staying at home more, and doing more themselves to save money. One could also suggest they are staying at home more to do more shopping online too instead of supporting local and small business.

horse
DrafterX Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
you could pizz on Victor's leg and he'd argue it was raining with you... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Dude.
I'm not defending minimum wage hikes. But retail stores closing is an ongoing trend, especially those where the customer can easily purchase the item online. Are you going to blame Barnes and Noble closing on the minimum wage hikes too?

If you aren't pleased with small businesses being closed down because of online retailers, then stop frequenting an online discount cigar forum....

You're simply grabbing anything which shows stores closing and trying to peg it to your favorite complaint. Hell, that's a national report. Do you really think those closures were only in states with minimum wage hikes?
victor809 Offline
#65 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I think drafter is trying to give me HepC
DrafterX Offline
#66 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
no way man... Not talking
victor809 Offline
#67 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I dunno... Trying to pizz on my leg....
DrafterX Offline
#68 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
It was raining man... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#69 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Huh... Now you're singing The Weather Girls?

I wonder about you drafter. Last time I heard about grown men dancing and singing to that song while peeing on each other, someone ended up with the Hep
DrafterX Offline
#70 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
you hang out with freaks... Mellow
victor809 Offline
#71 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Sounds like you're one of those freaks...
DrafterX Offline
#72 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
I didn't sign up for that... Not talking
tailgater Offline
#73 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I always miss the sign up.

victor809 Offline
#74 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Pretty sure they pass the sign up sheet around when you're not there intentionally... :)
Brewha Offline
#75 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
DrafterX wrote:
I thought Obama fixed the economy and stuff. ... Mellow

More like fix Bush's mess.

And fixed healthcare.

And the stock market........
gummy jones Offline
#76 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
When will obamamamma start fixing his own mess?
cacman Offline
#77 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
victor809 wrote:
Dude.
I'm not defending minimum wage hikes. But retail stores closing is an ongoing trend, especially those where the customer can easily purchase the item online. Are you going to blame Barnes and Noble closing on the minimum wage hikes too?

If you aren't pleased with small businesses being closed down because of online retailers, then stop frequenting an online discount cigar forum....

You're simply grabbing anything which shows stores closing and trying to peg it to your favorite complaint. Hell, that's a national report. Do you really think those closures were only in states with minimum wage hikes?

Dude
Anything can be purchased online. The fact is that many people purchase online to avoid the state and local sales tax involved. I'm not even going to mention some of the online cigar retailers that turn over their clients for taxes to be collected by the states from which they buy from. Online purchases will change once the guberment insitututes taxes to be paid on all online purchases, which is already happening. It's the only reason I buy cigars (just one product) online. In CO there's over 40% sin tax placed on all toabacco products. That's what makes a Padron 2000 Maduro that used to cost me $4.00 in PA cost $10 in Colorado. When there's not a B&M or local business within 300 miles of your area you have no choice but to purchase online. From what I understand there are many States that institute even higher sin taxes

Can retailers (big or small) afford to pay people $15/hr to stand around and serve as "Sales Representatives" of their business. Say all you want about the politics and business practices of companies like Target and Walmart. But when they are a local business in your area and employ hundreds within your community, you have to consider the "big store" as a local business. When a business like Walmart or Sports Authority closes in your town, local people suffer. There's not only the loss of jobs, but the loss of taxes being collected by the local town. There's not only the lack of need to employee those folks who serve you, but also the lack of taxes and income in the community that results in the need to increase local taxes. My town has a local airport that serves the Vail Valley. But regardless of whether there was increase in the tourism and flights to our area, as a result of the drop in fuel prices and the reduction in taxes collected on that fuel, our town faced a 3% increase in Sales Tax. An increase of 3% in sales tax is huge in any respect and anywhere you live. We are facing almost an 11% Sales Tax. Is that what you support? After having to pay the federal gubermant almost 30% of my income in federal taxes, I sure as fuq don't want to pay another 11% in local sales tax. Do you get it now???

NO. I don't think the closures where only in States with minimum wage increases. Open your eyes. The trend to replace minimum wage workers is happening all over our Country and World. Drive into a fast food restaurant, have your order taken by a computer kiosk, then have it prepared by a robotic processing system to cook and wrap your food to go. Moving to an online system where all orders are proecessed by a "robotic" system does not create jobs.

I would rather have a Sears, Target, or Walmart in our town/community than a "fullfillment center" filled with employing illegal immigrants to process orders received through an online ordering system. Press 1 for English!

If you don't understand that raising the minimum wage, a minimum wage that was institued in in the late '30's by FDR to protect young adolescent workers from being tasked advantage of... then that's on you. Minimum wage was never intended to serve as a "living wage".

If you're not happy with your minimum wage job, earn a better one.

---

Hoping banderl forgives any misspellings or grammatical errors. Not looking forward to a semantical argument.
It is what it is. Without evening mentioning the cost of Obamacare to employees or their employers.
DrafterX Offline
#78 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
Brewha wrote:
More like fix Bush's mess.

And fixed healthcare.

And the stock market........





the stock market always bounces back...

healthcare..?? LOL LOL


Bush's mess..?? what, he didn't give away enough free stuff..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#79 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Funny. The big box stores killed Main Street stores and everyone was upset. The replaced live able wage jobs with minimum. Now I guess we accept that as part of evolution. As long as the next great thing doesn't kill the big box stores etc etc.

Some fought against the industrial revolution. We are in another one..... Different name, different type but it's here

As for minimum wage hike you'll never hear me arguing for it, but the arguments against it are incoherent at best. If a robot can replace a human at a job the difference between 8/hour and 15/hour likely won't drive that decision at all. There is a calculation but the robot will likely be more expensive short term and cheaper long term. SAMs are testing sample machines now.

I'm not arguing anything at with anyone. Things are changing. Get on the bus.
Carib1 Offline
#80 Posted:
Joined: 11-25-2015
Posts: 140
Brewha wrote:
More like fix Bush's mess.

And fixed healthcare.

And the stock market........



Holy crap?


I have to keep reminding myself that Liberalism is a mental disorder....
DrafterX Offline
#81 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
The problem is all inside your head
She said to me..
The answer is easy if you
Take it logically.... Whistle Whistle
tailgater Offline
#82 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
teedubbya wrote:
Funny. The big box stores killed Main Street stores and everyone was upset. The replaced live able wage jobs with minimum. Now I guess we accept that as part of evolution. As long as the next great thing doesn't kill the big box stores etc etc.

Some fought against the industrial revolution. We are in another one..... Different name, different type but it's here

As for minimum wage hike you'll never hear me arguing for it, but the arguments against it are incoherent at best. If a robot can replace a human at a job the difference between 8/hour and 15/hour likely won't drive that decision at all. There is a calculation but the robot will likely be more expensive short term and cheaper long term. SAMs are testing sample machines now.

I'm not arguing anything at with anyone. Things are changing. Get on the bus.


For large companies (think Ford or GM) you may be right.
But for small and medium manufacturers the difference between $8 and $15 per hour absolutely will have a dramatic impact on switching to automation.
It's a simple cost of man-hours, and doubling that cost justifies automation sooner rather than later.


DrafterX Offline
#83 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
I still wonder what the people who worked hard for years & years to earn $15 an hour think about this... Surely their hourly rate didn't double too.... Mellow
banderl Offline
#84 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
cacman wrote:
Dude
Anything can be purchased online. The fact is that many people purchase online to avoid the state and local sales tax involved. I'm not even going to mention some of the online cigar retailers that turn over their clients for taxes to be collected by the states from which they buy from. Online purchases will change once the guberment insitututes taxes to be paid on all online purchases, which is already happening. It's the only reason I buy cigars (just one product) online. In CO there's over 40% sin tax placed on all toabacco products. That's what makes a Padron 2000 Maduro that used to cost me $4.00 in PA cost $10 in Colorado. When there's not a B&M or local business within 300 miles of your area you have no choice but to purchase online. From what I understand there are many States that institute even higher sin taxes

Can retailers (big or small) afford to pay people $15/hr to stand around and serve as "Sales Representatives" of their business. Say all you want about the politics and business practices of companies like Target and Walmart. But when they are a local business in your area and employ hundreds within your community, you have to consider the "big store" as a local business. When a business like Walmart or Sports Authority closes in your town, local people suffer. There's not only the loss of jobs, but the loss of taxes being collected by the local town. There's not only the lack of need to employee those folks who serve you, but also the lack of taxes and income in the community that results in the need to increase local taxes. My town has a local airport that serves the Vail Valley. But regardless of whether there was increase in the tourism and flights to our area, as a result of the drop in fuel prices and the reduction in taxes collected on that fuel, our town faced a 3% increase in Sales Tax. An increase of 3% in sales tax is huge in any respect and anywhere you live. We are facing almost an 11% Sales Tax. Is that what you support? After having to pay the federal gubermant almost 30% of my income in federal taxes, I sure as fuq don't want to pay another 11% in local sales tax. Do you get it now???

NO. I don't think the closures where only in States with minimum wage increases. Open your eyes. The trend to replace minimum wage workers is happening all over our Country and World. Drive into a fast food restaurant, have your order taken by a computer kiosk, then have it prepared by a robotic processing system to cook and wrap your food to go. Moving to an online system where all orders are proecessed by a "robotic" system does not create jobs.

I would rather have a Sears, Target, or Walmart in our town/community than a "fullfillment center" filled with employing illegal immigrants to process orders received through an online ordering system. Press 1 for English!

If you don't understand that raising the minimum wage, a minimum wage that was institued in in the late '30's by FDR to protect young adolescent workers from being tasked advantage of... then that's on you. Minimum wage was never intended to serve as a "living wage".

If you're not happy with your minimum wage job, earn a better one.

---

Hoping banderl forgives any misspellings or grammatical errors. Not looking forward to a semantical argument.
It is what it is. Without evening mentioning the cost of Obamacare to employees or their employers.


Go eff yourself, you whiny bitch.
teedubbya Offline
#85 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Tail I agree with you on the timing but I think it's a matter of prolonging the inevitable anyway. Maybe it's good to encourage automation and efficiencies. Competition breeds such things and I'm for it.

I don't care if a human hands me a Big Mac or if it shoots out of a machine. It sucks either way.

As for minimum wage I don't care about the issue. I'm certainly not for a fed action but states/localities can do whatever their people want.

In the end automation
victor809 Offline
#86 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Cacman, where did I ever defend a minimum wage? You're not even arguing with what I said, just what you think I said....

Tail... Given how computers and robotics drop in price significantly once they have made it out into the marketplace, it seems likely that once the big box stores are able to afford automation assistance, it wouldn't be long before prices drop enough that smaller stores can. Sure, the prevailing wage will impact when the trigger is pulled, but it will still happen.
banderl Offline
#87 Posted:
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
Carib1 wrote:
Holy crap?


I have to keep reminding myself that Liberalism is a mental disorder....



Says the guys who states that SRV was better than Hendrix.
Talk about mental disorders.
DrafterX Offline
#88 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,564
When Oregon Governor Kate Brown signed a minimum wage bill into law in March, it was the highest statewide wage floor in the U.S. It was also the most convoluted, setting three different wages and raise schedules depending on the area's population. ‎

Wages will rise to $12.50 in rural Oregon, $13.50 in mid-size regions and $14.75 in greater Portland, all by the year 2022.

But before the ink was even dry, Democrats, who control the state House, Senate and governor's office, announced they wanted to change the bill that was rammed through in a five-week legislative session despite fierce Republican opposition.

"They just wanted to pass something," said economist Eric Fruits, a Portland Republican. "They were really worried about the 15 Now people sending something to the ballot, and I think they got so snakebit they would have passed anything that was called a minimum wage increase."

Labor unions, spearheaded by the S.E.I.U., had been collecting signatures for a $15 statewide wage initiative and hoping to build on recent victories in several cities.

But Oregon Democrats acted before state economists even had a chance to weigh in. Last week, state analysts concluded in a prepared forecast the high wage will "result in approximately 40,000 fewer jobs in 2025 than would have been the case absent the legislation."

Orchard owner John Zielinski said his family business will‎ take a big hit.

"When those pears and apples are sold on the market, they're not going to give us any more money because we're from Oregon and have a higher pay rate," said Zielinski of E.Z. Orchards.

Rural counties threatened to file a lawsuit against the state, calling the minimum wage a maximum mess and an unfunded mandate. Oregon's constitution allows local governments to opt out of state programs that raise costs significantly and are not funded by the legislature.

Hearing the outcry, Democratic leaders quickly admitted they may have messed up. They promised a fix-it bill next year allowing for a lower training wages for young workers and some new hires.

But not everyone in the party or the public is onboard with the proposed changes. Low wage worker activists and some Democrats fear a loophole that will be abused.

"I think having a sub-minimum wage, while it might sound good, could end up hurting the very people we're trying to help," said Democratic state Senator Diane Rosenbaum.

Republican leaders support the fixes, including a possible exemption for some Eastern Oregon farmers who, if nothing changes, will have to pay $5 more per hour for labor than their competitors across the state line in Idaho.

Film at 11.... Mellow



I wonder if Tillamook Cheese will go up too..?? Huh
stogiefan Offline
#89 Posted:
Joined: 10-23-2012
Posts: 80
teedubbya wrote:
Funny. The big box stores killed Main Street stores and everyone was upset. The replaced live able wage jobs with minimum. Now I guess we accept that as part of evolution. As long as the next great thing doesn't kill the big box stores etc etc.

Some fought against the industrial revolution. We are in another one..... Different name, different type but it's here

As for minimum wage hike you'll never hear me arguing for it, but the arguments against it are incoherent at best. If a robot can replace a human at a job the difference between 8/hour and 15/hour likely won't drive that decision at all. There is a calculation but the robot will likely be more expensive short term and cheaper long term. SAMs are testing sample machines now.

I'm not arguing anything at with anyone. Things are changing. Get on the bus.


A coherent argument against minimum wage hikes is very simple. There are a number of menial jobs out there that no matter how proficiently performed cannot yield enough value added labor to justify these double-digit minimum wage hike suggestions. The effect of this is that those that fall below this threshold will no longer be employable because their labor cannot sustain the amount that their employment would cost their employer.

Brewha Offline
#90 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
stogiefan wrote:
A coherent argument against minimum wage hikes is very simple. There are a number of menial jobs out there that no matter how proficiently performed cannot yield enough value added labor to justify these double-digit minimum wage hike suggestions. The effect of this is that those that fall below this threshold will no longer be employable because their labor cannot sustain the amount that their employment would cost their employer.


Not just very simple - too simple.
So if stocking a shelf at Walmart in not worth a living wage, Walmart is just . . . Close down?
victor809 Offline
#91 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
You've arbitrarily defined what a living wage is. That's not any different than stogie fans simplification.

Why is the wage rate you define the amount of money any person deserves to do any job?
Brewha Offline
#92 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
Carib1 wrote:
Holy crap?


I have to keep reminding myself that Liberalism is a mental disorder....

I would imagine that from your protective most of the world seems like a mental disorder.....

But that is prolly the stress of living a country utterly destroyed by the Govmut, no jobs to be found, and most all of your freedoms gone.

You know they are coming for your guns next - don't you?
Brewha Offline
#93 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
victor809 wrote:
You've arbitrarily defined what a living wage is. That's not any different than stogie fans simplification.

Why is the wage rate you define the amount of money any person deserves to do any job?

Ok Vic, do you agree with the government option on the poverty line?
Or do you think there is not standard of living we would/should call a "living"?
victor809 Offline
#94 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I think you've framed it very conveniently, but not necessarily accurately.
You assume all jobs must pay enough that a person doing the work won't require government assistance. But not all people are in the same situation. The young and the old, people who are dependents on other tax payers and just want to do some work.

Even when dealing with head of household, you try to phrase the argument that the government is subsidizing the corporation by providing assistance to people who are doing low paying work. But really we are subsidizing people who don't have the competency to do work worth that amount.
Brewha Offline
#95 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
victor809 wrote:
I think you've framed it very conveniently, but not necessarily accurately.
You assume all jobs must pay enough that a person doing the work won't require government assistance. But not all people are in the same situation. The young and the old, people who are dependents on other tax payers and just want to do some work.

Even when dealing with head of household, you try to phrase the argument that the government is subsidizing the corporation by providing assistance to people who are doing low paying work. But really we are subsidizing people who don't have the competency to do work worth that amount.

I was using Walmart as an example. Please give me and example of the full time job that will never be worth a living wage.

Maybe you don't agree, but I think medium and large buisness need to support their communities.
victor809 Offline
#96 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Easy. Greeters.
Do you honestly think the value of a Walmart greeter is 15$/hr? How much would you pay someone to stand at your door and say hi?
victor809 Offline
#97 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
How about data entry? Literally someone who has to look at a number or an address or something on paper and type the same thing into a predefined field in a program. Possibly the most mind numbing work possible. Also something which requires almost no skill at all, and the value is just that the data is in an electronic format.

How about cleaning staff? Sure, cleaning has a value, but the more expensive it is, the less value cleanliness has. Suddenly instead of having the floors mopped nightly it's every other night, and the people performing the task get less work.
Speyside Offline
#98 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
The government is creating an artificial value. I have not been able to find a study about the actual cost increase of a minimum wage of $15/hour. Does this add 1% to poduct costs? If so this would have no noticeable effect on employment. Does it add %20 to product costs. If so the effect on employment would be catastrophic. I am not sure how one would figure this out. The only stories out there provide anecdotal information. So I find there is not enough information to make an informed decision on minimum wage.
tailgater Offline
#99 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:


Tail... Given how computers and robotics drop in price significantly once they have made it out into the marketplace, it seems likely that once the big box stores are able to afford automation assistance, it wouldn't be long before prices drop enough that smaller stores can. Sure, the prevailing wage will impact when the trigger is pulled, but it will still happen.


Not sure where you're going with this, or if it was meant for me.

Different types of businesses gain efficiencies differently. Price drops occur for many different reasons. The biggest difference between most small vs. large business within the same sector is an ability to absorb market shifts.
Raw materials go up for 6 months? The large company has inventory capacity and longer term contract pricing.
Wages spike? A workforce of 500 can be pared down easier than a workforce of 5.
Automation is easier to justify on order volumes in the millions vs. order volumes in the thousands.

It's not an unfair advantage. Small business offer a lot that a big guy can't.
It's just that a wage increase (the subject at hand) impacts the small shop exponentially more.

Keeping with the fast food analogy:
McDonalds might invent a robot cashier and burger flipper.
Do you think my brother's sandwich shop in Boston could justify one?
tailgater Offline
#100 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Speyside wrote:
The government is creating an artificial value. I have not been able to find a study about the actual cost increase of a minimum wage of $15/hour. Does this add 1% to poduct costs? If so this would have no noticeable effect on employment. Does it add %20 to product costs. If so the effect on employment would be catastrophic. I am not sure how one would figure this out. The only stories out there provide anecdotal information. So I find there is not enough information to make an informed decision on minimum wage.


Simple markets respond more directly to such input.
Henry Ford changed America. Not by building cars, but by building affordable cars and paying his employees more so they could purchase them.

In today's America, you have to eliminate those who wouldn't be impacted:
The top 10%.
And Mitt Romney's 45% that are on government assistance.

At the end of the day I unabashedly ignore my obvious bias and state that small business will be impacted disproportionately.
Massachusetts minimum wage is at $10.
My company can't keep workers at $12 plus benefits. I'm talking about glorified floor sweepers.
What happens when the minimum wage reaches $12?

We're talking about good people who have zero work ethic. Some work only long enough to go back on the government teet. And they know precisely how many hours that is, believe me.
And now we want to give them a federally mandated raise??

Sorry.
Off my soapbox.
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