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tailgater Offline
#51 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 7:21 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
I tend to agree with her here.

The important part of the story is "american dead". the important part isn't "because of riot due to video" or "because of planned attack". Either way americans are dead. If you think the important part is trying to parse whether a politician correctly identified the cause within the first 72 hours (there is plenty of time for analysis later)... then I'd say you've got your priorities wrong. But that's just me.


So if your family was killed yesterday, you wouldn't worry about WHY they were killed.
tailgater Offline
#52 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 7:32 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Again. You are presupposing that she lied, without any clear information. While I understand you don't like her, you can't possibly think that you are looking at this in an unbiased manner when the words you use are assuming she was wrong before you even think about the problem.


So Google is your friend, except when you're trying to make a point in a losing effort?

10 second research:

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/07/31/have-we-forgotten-that-hillary-pretty-much-called-a-gold-star-mother-a-liar-n2200420

"As the Daily Caller reported in April, new State Department documents showed Clinton offered different stories to foreign leaders about the night of the Benghazi attack, telling the Egyptian Foreign Minster that a “stupid, very offensive film” was the point source for the upheaval in the region. During her 11-hour testimony to Congress, emails showed that Clinton knew this was a terrorist attack, and not the result of a video—or part of some protest. And on Fox News Sunday, she said that she didn’t hold any ill feelings toward those families who in their grief might have forgotten what she said to them as the caskets of their loved ones were off loaded. Both Smith and the father of Tyrone Woods, another Benghazi victim, have said that Clinton told them the Innocence Of Muslims was the reason the compound was attacked."

She lied directly to the parents.
Emails exposed during testimony show that Hillary was aware the Benghazi attack was terrorists. NOT an uprising over a video.
tailgater Offline
#53 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 7:34 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Brewha wrote:
I think the perceive bias in the media is largely owing to Trump being an embarrassment to his party. Add to this our on going embarrassment in front of other countries because of his grade school remarks and it seems clear why news would focus on his foibles.


You may be correct.
But that would be admitting that the media is indeed biased. Something you've been unwilling to admit previously.
tonygraz Offline
#54 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 7:57 AM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,284
I'm sure Brewski would admit that Fox was biased, unfair and unbalanced.
DrafterX Offline
#55 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 8:19 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
I heard Eleanor told Hillary to say those things... Mellow
Brewha Offline
#56 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 10:12 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
tailgater wrote:
You may be correct.
But that would be admitting that the media is indeed biased. Something you've been unwilling to admit previously.


While I find it hard not to lampoon FoxNews for their selling opinions as fact, it happens on both sides of the fence. The media is largely biased - unfortunately. And yes - the liberal media does it too.

They are also painfully guilty of fact stacking and describing events in emotional terms - so as to tell us what to think of things. Oddly, some gravitate to this - others are appalled.

But I think most people walk way with the conclusions and opinions they are given. Critical thinking is starting to look like a lost art here in the states....
DrafterX Offline
#57 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 10:18 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
It is odd how reporting actual quotes can being taken as bias tho... Think

and then be argued by the other side with 'She didn't mean that'.... Mellow
banderl Offline
#58 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 10:22 AM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
LOL
DrafterX wrote:
It is odd how reporting actual quotes can being taken as bias tho... Think

and then be argued by the other side with 'She didn't mean that'....



LOL
DrafterX Offline
#59 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 10:26 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Mellow
opelmanta1900 Offline
#60 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 11:44 AM EST
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
Brewha wrote:
I think the perceive bias in the media is largely owing to Trump being an embarrassment to his party. Add to this our on going embarrassment in front of other countries because of his grade school remarks and it seems clear why news would focus on his foibles.


Doesn't really add up... Obama has been in power for 8 years and the rest of the world thinks he's a joke, and not just an embarrassment for his party but the whole country... so why wasnt the media exercising bias against him?

Trump speaks without thinking, shoots from the hip, spends a lot of time backpedaling and will ultimately - if elected - accomplish only a fraction of what he's promised...

Obama speaks carefully, rarely shoots from the hip, spends a lot of his time defending his decisions and ultimately - once elected - accomplished only a fraction of what he promised...
Brewha Offline
#61 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 11:56 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
DrafterX wrote:
It is odd how reporting actual quotes can being taken as bias tho... Think

and then be argued by the other side with 'She didn't mean that'.... Mellow

True...true.

I have seen some of Trumps quotes put in the wrong light and be misrepresented.
DrafterX Offline
#62 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 12:01 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Not going to defend his quotes... he would be better off not speaking at all at times... the difference tho is his opinion vs her lying and denying.... Mellow
Brewha Offline
#63 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 12:05 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
opelmanta1900 wrote:
Doesn't really add up... Obama has been in power for 8 years and the rest of the world thinks he's a joke, and not just an embarrassment for his party but the whole country... so why wasnt the media exercising bias against him?

Trump speaks without thinking, shoots from the hip, spends a lot of time backpedaling and will ultimately - if elected - accomplish only a fraction of what he's promised...

Obama speaks carefully, rarely shoots from the hip, spends a lot of his time defending his decisions and ultimately - once elected - accomplished only a fraction of what he promised...


That view is not demonstrated by Pew Research or Gallup Polls.

However last time I was in an airport in Mexico, they were selling shirts with Trumps picture that read "racist pig" in Spanish....
Brewha Offline
#64 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 12:06 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
DrafterX wrote:
Not going to defend his quotes... he would be better off not speaking at all at times... the difference tho is his opinion vs her lying and denying.... Mellow

Bro, that's a pretty small hook to hang your hat on.

Just sayin'
tailgater Offline
#65 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 12:24 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrafterX wrote:
It is odd how reporting actual quotes can being taken as bias tho... Think

and then be argued by the other side with 'She didn't mean that'.... Mellow


I thought is was "That's what she said"...
DrafterX Offline
#66 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 1:00 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
we could prolly use that..... Mellow
gummy jones Offline
#67 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 1:14 PM EST
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igQDvYOt_iA
Brewha Offline
#68 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 2:06 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
DrafterX wrote:
we could prolly use that..... Mellow

That's what she said...
victor809 Offline
#69 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 3:05 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Brewha wrote:
Bro, that's a pretty small hook to hang your hat on.

Just sayin'



That's what he said...


(just following the trend here)
victor809 Offline
#70 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 3:09 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
So if your family was killed yesterday, you wouldn't worry about WHY they were killed.



To the best of my understanding of how I would react (given I have little family, and few are dead, I can't speak with certainty), the why wouldn't be my first concern. Sure, I'd want to know. But to be so concerned that if the information changed along the way as things are figured out? Doubt I'd be too worried about that. Sometimes people are told their family member died due to x, but an autopsy found out it was y. That happens, people usually aren't destroyed over it.

It isn't like they don't know the "how". They were killed by a bunch of azzholes who took over the compound. The only information that really changed is whether those azzholes had thought about doing it the night before, or just spontaneously decided to do it the day of.
victor809 Offline
#71 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 3:15 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
So Google is your friend, except when you're trying to make a point in a losing effort?

10 second research:

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2016/07/31/have-we-forgotten-that-hillary-pretty-much-called-a-gold-star-mother-a-liar-n2200420

"As the Daily Caller reported in April, new State Department documents showed Clinton offered different stories to foreign leaders about the night of the Benghazi attack, telling the Egyptian Foreign Minster that a “stupid, very offensive film” was the point source for the upheaval in the region. During her 11-hour testimony to Congress, emails showed that Clinton knew this was a terrorist attack, and not the result of a video—or part of some protest. And on Fox News Sunday, she said that she didn’t hold any ill feelings toward those families who in their grief might have forgotten what she said to them as the caskets of their loved ones were off loaded. Both Smith and the father of Tyrone Woods, another Benghazi victim, have said that Clinton told them the Innocence Of Muslims was the reason the compound was attacked."

She lied directly to the parents.
Emails exposed during testimony show that Hillary was aware the Benghazi attack was terrorists. NOT an uprising over a video.




I already knew that. Notice that you are assuming those parents are correct.
Smith and Woods say she mentioned a video. Quigley, Doherty and Stevens say she didn't.

Again, you choose to believe the two which fit best with what you want to believe about clinton.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/feb/09/what-did-hillary-clinton-tell-families-people-who-/
tailgater Offline
#72 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 3:23 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
I already knew that. Notice that you are assuming those parents are correct.
Smith and Woods say she mentioned a video. Quigley, Doherty and Stevens say she didn't.

Again, you choose to believe the two which fit best with what you want to believe about clinton.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/feb/09/what-did-hillary-clinton-tell-families-people-who-/


This is the premise of the post.

Politifact? c'mon man.
Politifact would side with BILL Clinton saying "I did not have sex". They find tiny snippets of truth or grey areas that cast doubt and then state with pride that isn't a lie.
And as I've said before, they give equal weight to lying about what you had for breakfast versus life and death and matters of national security.


Getting back to reality, do you doubt Clinton blamed the video?
Obama did. (blame the video)
victor809 Offline
#73 Posted: Tue, Aug 2 2016, 3:34 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
This is the premise of the post.

Politifact? c'mon man.
Politifact would side with BILL Clinton saying "I did not have sex". They find tiny snippets of truth or grey areas that cast doubt and then state with pride that isn't a lie.
And as I've said before, they give equal weight to lying about what you had for breakfast versus life and death and matters of national security.


Getting back to reality, do you doubt Clinton blamed the video?
Obama did. (blame the video)


I don't know what clinton said. And your decision to question politifact (which identifies 3 family members who DON'T recall a video being mentioned... hey, that's exactly the evidence you have for it being mentioned) is based on what? they are providing references to people who were there.

I don't even know if I'd care if clinton said it was because of a video. Seriously. Whether the people who murdered the americans were spurred on because of a video or because of some other bs... is really a minor difference. And to top it off, it isn't like the information didn't get out.

Even if we want to get sinister... absolutely worst case scenario, she knew it was planned and deliberately told them it was the video. So? She may have been trying to avoid getting the idea of a planned attack out to the press until they had verified it. We control who we release information to at work all the time. If we're solving a problem and are only 90% sure we know the fix, we sure as hell don't tell some people until we're 100% sure, because once that information is out it's impossible to walk it back. Others are told about the details earlier and when there is less certainty, because we know that we can update them if the information changes.

None of this is nearly as damning as the people make it out to be. I'll reiterate, if this is what your vision of the devil does, you really need a lot more creativity.
DrafterX Offline
#74 Posted: Wed, Aug 3 2016, 7:04 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
So, you don't mind her being a liar and stuff.... that's cool.... Personally, I'd like to see someone I can trust in office... Mellow
frankj1 Offline
#75 Posted: Wed, Aug 3 2016, 7:41 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
DrafterX wrote:
So, you don't mind her being a liar and stuff.... that's cool.... Personally, I'd like to see someone I can trust in office... Mellow

maybe in four more years...
DrafterX Offline
#76 Posted: Wed, Aug 3 2016, 7:47 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
ya, notice I wasn't holding a Trump sign when I said that... Laugh
tailgater Offline
#77 Posted: Wed, Aug 3 2016, 8:47 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
I don't know what clinton said. And your decision to question politifact (which identifies 3 family members who DON'T recall a video being mentioned... hey, that's exactly the evidence you have for it being mentioned) is based on what? they are providing references to people who were there.

I don't even know if I'd care if clinton said it was because of a video. Seriously. Whether the people who murdered the americans were spurred on because of a video or because of some other bs... is really a minor difference. And to top it off, it isn't like the information didn't get out.

Even if we want to get sinister... absolutely worst case scenario, she knew it was planned and deliberately told them it was the video. So? She may have been trying to avoid getting the idea of a planned attack out to the press until they had verified it. We control who we release information to at work all the time. If we're solving a problem and are only 90% sure we know the fix, we sure as hell don't tell some people until we're 100% sure, because once that information is out it's impossible to walk it back. Others are told about the details earlier and when there is less certainty, because we know that we can update them if the information changes.

None of this is nearly as damning as the people make it out to be. I'll reiterate, if this is what your vision of the devil does, you really need a lot more creativity.


Who said anything about damning?
The issue is how the media portrays it.

Trump says something stupid, the Gold Star parents get angry, and Trump gets lambasted.

Clinton says something stupid, implies that the Gold Star parent is a liar, and even with the google machine at full power you still can't find what she said.

So I'm glad we agree.
Speyside Offline
#78 Posted: Wed, Aug 3 2016, 9:16 AM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
There is no fair and balanced. Just like there is no unbiased. The news is not about truth, it is about audience ratings.
Covfireman Offline
#79 Posted: Wed, Aug 3 2016, 9:39 AM EST
Joined: 09-03-2015
Posts: 809
victor809 wrote:
We're not asking about the email thing here. I don't disagree with that one, she was incorrect when saying he said she didn't do anything wrong.

But in this thread we're asked to compare her interaction with the benghazi families with trump's interaction with the khan's. I think it's clear why there is more media attention on one.



LOL incorrect or lying her a55 off ? Don't answer. I know you'll justify her lies .
Covfireman Offline
#80 Posted: Wed, Aug 3 2016, 9:56 AM EST
Joined: 09-03-2015
Posts: 809
I know that over 50% of the Bernie voters in my district in Clark County are not planning on voting for her as of the last few days .
Brewha Offline
#81 Posted: Wed, Aug 3 2016, 12:38 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,201
Speyside wrote:
There is no fair and balanced. Just like there is no unbiased. The news is not about truth, it is about audience ratings.

I'm afraid it is far more dire.
They sell ideas and attempt to guide and influence opinion by manipulating the facts.
teedubbya Offline
#82 Posted: Wed, Aug 3 2016, 12:42 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I have no problem creating something far right to counter the far left.... but that is not fair and balanced... I'd respect trying to play things down the middle most though.
DrafterX Offline
#83 Posted: Wed, Aug 3 2016, 12:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
multiple sources and a little common sense.... Mellow
Covfireman Offline
#84 Posted: Wed, Aug 3 2016, 2:37 PM EST
Joined: 09-03-2015
Posts: 809
This seems like it might be relevant

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?playnext=1&list=PLlFoudhGc6a75xSqfGUala5BJGUX8Vpxs
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