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OxyContin maker cuts sales staff, won't hawk drug to docs
cacman Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
The pharmaceutical company that produces the painkiller OxyContin is slashing its sales staff and says it will halt, effective Monday, promotion of opioids to physicians and other health care professionals.

The decision by Purdue Pharma comes as the industry battles an avalanche of lawsuits across the nation related to the opioid crisis.

“We have restructured and significantly reduced our commercial operation and will no longer be promoting opioids to prescribers," Purdue Pharma said in a statement.

Indra Cidambi, medical director at the Center for Network Therapy detox program in New Jersey, said she was encouraged by Purdue's announcement. But she warned that tightening the prescription supply already has illegal drug dealers turning out more pills that look like branded prescription meds but can be even more dangerous.

"The decision by a manufacturer to stop pushing opioid pain medications is late, but better late than never," Cidambi told USA TODAY. "Even if we save one life due to this decision, it is worth it."

Purdue's head of medical affairs, Monica Kwarcinski, sent a letter to prescribers updating the company's efforts to support responsible opioid use.

"Effective Monday, February 12, 2018, our field sales organization will no longer be visiting your offices to engage you in discussions about our opioid products," Kwarcinski said in the letter, which was released to media outlets. "Requests for information about our opioid products will be handled through direct communication with the highly experienced health care professionals that comprise our Medical Affairs department."

Purdue said in a statement it is reducing its sales force by more than 50%. The remaining 200 sales reps will focus on non-opioid drugs such as Symproic, the company said. Symproic is used to treat opioid-related constipation.

The company said it has consistently followed opioid guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control, which include a recommendation that opioids not be the first option for chronic pain.

Purdue, a privately held company based in Stamford, Conn., has been slammed with lawsuits claiming the company has downplayed OxyContin's addiction risk. Opioid litigation increased sharply in 2017 when hundreds of cities, counties and states sued opioid makers, wholesalers, distributors and marketers.

The lawsuits accuse the companies of, among other things, misleading prescribers and the public by marketing opioids as a safe substitute for non-addictive pain medications such as ibuprofen. Opioids also have been blamed for a resurgence in heroin use.

The government claims the results have been tragic — and left government agencies with millions in social and health care costs.

Purdue said in a statement that it "vigorously denies" allegations of misconduct, adding that its products account for only "approximately 2%" of all opioid prescriptions.

"We are deeply troubled by the opioid crisis, and we are dedicated to being part of the solution," the company said.

Opioids are substances that work on the nervous system in the body or specific receptors in the brain to reduce the intensity of pain. The CDC says more than three out of five drug overdose deaths involve opioids — and that annual deaths from heroin and prescription opioids have increased more than five-fold since 1999, including 42,000 deaths in 2016.

Purdue and three former executives pleaded guilty in federal court a decade ago to criminal charges of misleading the public about the addictive nature of OxyContin, paying more than $630 million in fines and penalties.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/02/11/oxycontin-maker-cuts-sales-staff-wont-hawk-drug-docs/327251002/

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It's about f*cking time! But it's only a start.

Disturbing that oxy actually had such a large "field sales organization" that it's news that 50% of their drug dealers are out of a job.

Guessing too that a number of our politicians just took a cut in pay to their election campaigns.
SteveS Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
this stuff is some pretty insidious sh*t ... good to see it's got a chance to disappear ...
rfenst Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,323
I was prescribed oxycontin while hospitalized and it worked really well. Hope it is available if I ever need it again.
Speyside Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Cacman thinks big pharma=bad. He doesn't understand how much good medication does.
cacman Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
I understand how much good medication does. I also fully recognize how bad medications can be, especially when big pharma deceives the public and doctors on its side-effects.
Speyside Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
On that point I agree with you. The punishment for doing so has not been severe enough to stop the practice.
teedubbya Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Rfenst there are much better options. This drug can go away forever and we would be better for it.
victor809 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
Rfenst there are much better options. This drug can go away forever and we would be better for it.


I dunno man....
I do think it's prescribed way more than really necessary, because dr's are pretty lazy and don't want o deal with patients in pain... and patients are weak and want to not be in pain...

But I do think it serves a reasonably good role. Not sure it could be replaced by other meds in all cases where it's used.

(caveat... I've never found it necessary. I've had it prescribed many times, my kitchen drawer is full of expired oxy... the only times I ever took it I found it wasn't nearly fun enough, and the pain wasn't that bad anyway.
teedubbya Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
More and more it’s looking like the perceived effects of opioids are overstated and there are better options. There are some legitimate medical personnel that think they are flat out worthless especially given the side effects.

One of my first projects was trying to reduce the use of Propoxyphene. Docs and dentists didn’t want to admit it but it was no better for pain than Tylenol but had all the bad narcotic side effects.

It’s now off the market and gone. Righfully so. Oxys days are numbered. It’s effect on pain are way overstated.
victor809 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:

It’s now off the market and gone. Righfully so. Oxys days are numbered. It’s effect on pain are way overstated.


But what would be the alternative in this case?

Don't get me wrong... I'm a huuuuuuge fan of ibuprophen, think it's the best compound ever created and spent years of my life taking 800mg 4x a day. But I imagine there are a lot of situations where that simply isn't enough to cut it.
Ewok126 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
victor809 wrote:
But what would be the alternative in this case?

Don't get me wrong... I'm a huuuuuuge fan of ibuprophen, think it's the best compound ever created and spent years of my life taking 800mg 4x a day. But I imagine there are a lot of situations where that simply isn't enough to cut it.



Or with folks such as me with taking Ibuprofen can be very very deadly.
victor809 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Hey... pssst.... Ewok.... wanna buy som Ibuprophy? gots some good stuff...
teedubbya Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Well if it really doesn’t do as they claim then an alternative isn’t really an issue.

More and more the thought is opioids don’t do for pain what folks think. One you figure out the upside is a false narrative the downside becomes much less tollerable. That was the issue with Propoxyphene.

In a few years we will be rolling our eyes at the upside of opioids in my opinion. There will always be some that won’t beleive it. Same with Propoxyphene, but at some point you move past those folks.
teedubbya Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
NSAIDs are horrible for you but do have their place.
Ewok126 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
victor809 wrote:
Hey... pssst.... Ewok.... wanna buy som Ibuprophy? gots some good stuff...


Bwahahah, I am not quite there yet but when I get there I will give you a buzz.
victor809 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
NSAIDs are horrible for you but do have their place.


You can pry my NSAIDs from my cold dead hands.... :)
teedubbya Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Nah your liver and kidneys will do it for me.
victor809 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
Well if it really doesn’t do as they claim then an alternative isn’t really an issue.

More and more the thought is opioids don’t do for pain what folks think. One you figure out the upside is a false narrative the downside becomes much less tollerable. That was the issue with Propoxyphene.

In a few years we will be rolling our eyes at the upside of opioids in my opinion. There will always be some that won’t beleive it. Same with Propoxyphene, but at some point you move past those folks.


I dunno TW. We have been using opioids for a very long time as pain relief. I have to assume that if it didn't do what we think, we would have figured that out by now.

I'm all for something better. I have faith that as long as we don't have people fixing the prices for pharaceuticals, we have a chance to develop something better....

But to say that it doesn't do as it claims seems.... like a stretch. I'd have to see a study on that
Speyside Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Oxcy does nothing for me, for that matter neither does Vicodin. Oddly enough Percocet does.
Ewok126 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
Speyside wrote:
Oxcy does nothing for me, for that matter neither does Vicodin. Oddly enough Percocet does.


Ummhum. For me Oxcy works wonders but unlike most that take it, it knocks them down, For me it winds me up. Question is for myself is it due to the medication or is it due to the fact that after hurting for a year and to get one day of relief I feel a new vigor that I have not felt in ages. We all know that when in pain for a period of time to get some relief there is a euphoric feeling. This I would not wish on anyone to experience or to know what that is like. Well except those that talk out their arse and have no clue what real pain is. I would love to sit and watch those suffer for a few months then come back and get their thoughts.

Percocets for me is like taking M&M's, it does not ease my pain lvl at all. Ibuprofen works wonders as well but because of other medical problems its off my list all together. I can't take it even for a loss of limb.
Speyside Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Yeah, Ibuprofen and Naproxen are no goes for me due drug interactions with heart medications. Isn't it interesting how different our physiologies can be as it relates to medication.
teedubbya Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Bookmark this in your mind victor. Let’s see where this goes. I think you will see those studies and documentation. Oxy specifically but opioids in general.
victor809 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
Bookmark this in your mind victor. Let’s see where this goes. I think you will see those studies and documentation. Oxy specifically but opioids in general.


I'm cool if more info pops up. I'll gladly tell you you were prescient... :)
Speyside Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
I think TW is right. Though the information needs to become more than anecdotal.
tailgater Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I can't take Nsaids, although not for any drug interaction.
For me it's Tylenol.
Or extra strength Tylenol.

If I break my back I want to know I can get the proper medication and I that won't be limited because some other doctor was cavalier with his Rx pad or some other patient lied about phantom pains in order to capitalize on the street value.

I'm funny like that.


Speyside Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
You certainly are funny.
victor809 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Poetic justice...

Not 100% related... but apparently the dog fell down the stairs yesterday afternoon. We got home and he was limping pretty badly...

So... trip to the vet last night. They gave him a shot of hydromorphone for pain.

The dog was up until 3am whimpering and wheezing. Note... he wasn't whimpering before the morphine. Something about the drug was causing him to whimper in a weird way, don't know if it was the effect it had on his breathing or what. But the drug did appear to have no positive impact on his pain....

A sample size of 1 dog isn't gonna change my mind. But it's interesting to me. I can see how there can be instances where this drug is prescribed and essentially ineffective (or negatively effective)
Ewok126 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
Speyside wrote:
Yeah, Ibuprofen and Naproxen are no goes for me due drug interactions with heart medications. Isn't it interesting how different our physiologies can be as it relates to medication.


Truly astounding it is. What really gets my goat is the blanket statements such as with the crisis. There is absolutely a problem but its due to the abusive nature of people. Yet, we have those that think these meds should be chit caned for everyone. Now folks like me have to suffer every minute of every day because of what is, dare I say "Socially Acceptable".

Now this is where I stop because I get very irate when a grown man or woman or group tries to tell me what is best for me and everyone else. I have seen people having to scream at the top of their lungs to get to a toilet because of pain. All because of people like the ones I speak of above. It is real easy for them to sit back and say Oh they don't need it when they are not the ones in that kind of pain. This mentality has now went to the majority of facilities and Doctors now which is why the meds are so hard to get if at all.

Ok I gots to stop.

Peace
cacman Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Ewok126 wrote:
There is absolutely a problem but its due to the abusive nature of people.

And more importantly the lies and misleading information distributed by big pharma.
Then there's the Dr's that will prescribe large amounts of opioids to anyone who complains about the slightest pain. As long as the Dr gets paid for the office visit, and also the return office visit, what does he care. Its a guaranteed return customer.

The opioid crisis is simply not because of "the abusive nature of people".
cacman Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Doctor faces charges over opioid prescriptions and 5 patient deaths
https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/22/health/doctor-opioid-prescription/index.html

The US attorney's office alleges that Kraynak was the top prescriber in the state for opioids, writing ones for about 2.7 million doses of oxycodone, hydrocodone, oxycontin and fentanyl within 19 months. Those prescriptions were written for about 2,838 patients.

---

That's over 950 doses per customer.
Phil222 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
-The economic toll of the opioid crisis is estimated to have topped $1 trillion from 2001 through 2017, a new report says.

-The economic fallout from the epidemic of heroin and prescription painkiller abuse is on track to cost $500 billion from 2018 to 2020 alone.

-More than 62,000 Americans are believed to have fatally overdosed from opioids in 2017.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/12/economic-cost-of-the-opioid-crisis-1-trillion-and-growing-faster.html
victor809 Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Ewok126 wrote:
Truly astounding it is. What really gets my goat is the blanket statements such as with the crisis. There is absolutely a problem but its due to the abusive nature of people. Yet, we have those that think these meds should be chit caned for everyone. Now folks like me have to suffer every minute of every day because of what is, dare I say "Socially Acceptable".

Now this is where I stop because I get very irate when a grown man or woman or group tries to tell me what is best for me and everyone else. I have seen people having to scream at the top of their lungs to get to a toilet because of pain. All because of people like the ones I speak of above. It is real easy for them to sit back and say Oh they don't need it when they are not the ones in that kind of pain. This mentality has now went to the majority of facilities and Doctors now which is why the meds are so hard to get if at all.

Ok I gots to stop.

Peace


Sounds like Ewok has an opioid addiction...
Phil222 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
Probably cheaper than a cigar addiction...
RMAN4443 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
Phil222 wrote:
Probably cheaper than a cigar addiction...

You'd need to be smoking a chitload of very expensive cigars to cover .75 cents per mg on the street.....80 mg Oxy will cost you $60-$80 dollars from your friendly neighborhood dealer........on the other hand, get a prescription and they run about $6 per pill for an 80mg Oxy at pharmacy........YMMV
Phil222 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
Yeah, that was my attempt at being facetious.
RMAN4443 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
Phil222 wrote:
Yeah, that was my attempt at being facetious.

I know, or at least I was pretty sure you were, I just didn't realize the markup was that high, and thought I'd pass on what I had learnedBeer
Phil222 Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
I can dig it. I knew a guy who was hooked on those for a while. I don't know what mg he was getting, but I do know that he was paying around $20 a pill. It's sad to see what addiction does to people.
MACS Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,779
I dunno, man... I think the blame for the epidemic should lie with the dip****s putting that crap into their bodies KNOWING what it's gonna do.
opelmanta1900 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2012
Posts: 13,954
When my son was born, it was a tough birth.... wife ended up in the hospital for 8 days, boy was in the special care unit... in the midst of it all, something happened to my back, not sure what, but i couldn't stand up, couldn't walk unless i was bent completely at the waist..

Went on for months with no explanation... it'd get a little better and then way worse... i had no idea what to do... couldn't even mow my own lawn, my 70 year old neighbor was doing it for me... it was embarrassing quite frankly...

And then my doctor introduced me to a little pill... a Kaiser doctor, not some pill pusher... it started with hydrocodone but after probably 3 months nothing was better and the hydro wasnt cutting it anymore... it was weird... made me feel good and let me function but the pain was still there every morning...

So i was prescribed oxy... by the grace of God i didn't like how high it got me... way way too f'd up... so i went back to hydro and eventually ran out and couldn't get refilled... my sister's husband is actually the one who convinced me that a lot of the pain and misery was actually coming from the pills (he'd broken his neck in a parasailing accident and went through the same thing)...

Not sure i have a point there other than to say i was one of those dipsh*ts who took the pills and easily could've become an addict... nothing of my own doing that stopped me, just they fact that i couldn't handle the high... probably could've worked my way into it slowly but for whatever reason i didn't...

Went through some issues about 2 years ago, maybe less, and went looking for the pills to give them another try... pretty sure my mom and wife conspired against me and trashed them... it's nice to have good women in my life...
MACS Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,779
Different circumstance Joel. A whole lot of these people are doing heroin, and abusing the drugs without a preliminary reason to do it, other than getting high... knowing it's bad for them.
Ewok126 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 06-25-2017
Posts: 4,356
victor809 wrote:
Sounds like Ewok has an opioid addiction...


I was very surprised to find out how many doctors in my lifetime that do not know me is willing to go there first thing as well. Of course after a long period of time they come to realize this is not the case. They realize that of what I am speaking is sometimes (sometimes being a keyword) the possible outcome of addiction and the ill side effects are not no wheres near the dangers of the absolute outcome of being without them.

Now we live in a society where that blanket statement is assumed first thing and end of story when it comes to medical treatment. In a huge way you just really kind of proved my point joking or not. The sad thing is we now have medical professionals that do the exact same thing right off the bat. Typically once this opinion is formed well then it like most other things, it becomes fact when it is not the case.

Then of course I get very frustrated because I see what is suppose to be "Educated people" falling for the same BS as the rest of the layman's meaning "willing to make a blanket statement without facts to back it up for that person.

1) Is it the typical yes
2) Is it always the case for this particular person NO

but once number one is hit, number 2 never hardly ever comes into the thought or process and it is done without fact.

What is really sad is, My thoughts on this is not even for me. Its for those that I have seen suffer in ways that in my mind are horrific. I have seen children die right before my eyes, I have seen adults do the same. To watch one live in pain (no I am not talking of stubbed toes) well lets just say at times it can give a man bad bad thoughts on what should be done especially when that patient is begging for death. But, when all you can do is watch and walk off all because some nut job thinks his, hers or the "facilities" opinion of well at least they won't be addicted.

Ok gots to go again. Getting way to deep for me and this is one thing I do not have the capability to switch off.

Peace brothers and sisters
teedubbya Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Macs your view on this is very narrow. I get it. It’s based on your experience, but your experience is very specific.

The opioid epidemic is much larger and very different than what you are seeing. I’m not saying you are wrong, I am saying what you are seeing is a subset of the larger problem.

I work on this stuff every day, and could probably make it a cottage industry until after I retire. It’s both broader and deeper than most know. Even working on this stuff as much as I do, I am amazed by what we find at every turn. It’s insidious.

It does have one thing going for it from a funding perspective. It’s hitting the middle and upper class which always helps from a funding perspective. (Intentional gallows outlook).
Speyside Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
A heroin addict, a fentanyl addict, and a drug dealer are sitting in a car. Who is driving?

The police.
teedubbya Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Rereading what I wrote I want to make sure you know I respect your opinion, and what you are talking about IS part of the problem. But it’s only part.
teedubbya Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Odds are the cop could be on something.
Speyside Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
TW, a dumb question on my part, as many are, but who are you referring to?
teedubbya Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Huh? MACS if you are referring to 42 and 44
gummy jones Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 07-06-2015
Posts: 7,969
Opiates are great for pain. Unrivaled really. But they are incredibly dirty compounds that effect every organ system. They worsen outcomes in all situations long term.

Lack of a great option does not justify continued use of a bad one.
MACS Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,779
You may be right, Tim. My perspective is certainly one sided.

I was prescribed norco when I had shoulder surgery. Way more drug than I really needed, and did not use most of it. It came with a warning label, and a list of side effects... as is required by law, right?

This is addictive, it's an opiate, it's gonna plug you up , etc, etc...

We drink whisky and beer... knowing full well it's bad for our liver and kidneys and has adverse effects on our health. What's the difference?
teedubbya Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
gummy jones wrote:
Opiates are great for pain. Unrivaled really.


Very much in dispute. I think some eye opening data is forthcoming on this.



MACs that's why I wanted to make sure to be clear I am not in disagreement with you on part of the problem. I actually agree to an extent. But the issue is much larger than that part of it, and there are a lot of variables including things like assuming doctor sanctioned is safer somehow, chronic pain management etc.... actually much much more.

For the group you are thinking of I might agree mostly. But I'm also working on some very different scenarios.


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