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Different Religions and Beliefs. Before birth? After death? Jesus? Buddha?
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Whistlebritches Offline
#51 Posted: Sat, Jan 11 2020, 6:00 PM EST
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
I am a Christian albeit a poor one at best.I believe every word in the bible and yes Jesus is my Lord and Savior.The last time I sat foot in a church was at a funeral.I believe that organized religion has developed more agnostics than Christians.Yes I refer to Christians and Christians only...…..I have a deep rooted respect for Buddhism but it is a philosophy not a faith IMHO.As for other religions and other Gods...………..I have zero belief in them.Could I be wrong???Not according to my faith.Now the devil.....that bastid is real.You can blame all the worlds ills on man if you want but I believe Satan is alive,well and working in many peoples lives.


All this being said I do believe one day I will have my opportunity to sit down with St Peter.I just pray it goes well
teedubbya Offline
#52 Posted: Sat, Jan 11 2020, 6:02 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
fishinguitarman wrote:
In GOD We Trust


Ooops ok 4 words... my bad



Lol and I missed it
teedubbya Offline
#53 Posted: Sat, Jan 11 2020, 6:03 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think satan has an orangish hue. Lol.
fishinguitarman Offline
#54 Posted: Sat, Jan 11 2020, 6:07 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
Ya ain’t as sharp ya old goat
fishinguitarman Offline
#55 Posted: Sat, Jan 11 2020, 6:09 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
Ron that was a tremendous post

+777,777
teedubbya Offline
#56 Posted: Sat, Jan 11 2020, 6:44 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
fishinguitarman wrote:
Ron that was a tremendous post

+777,777



Remember 777,777 divided by 1167.833 repeating is 666.

Coincidence?
danmdevries Offline
#57 Posted: Sat, Jan 11 2020, 6:49 PM EST
Joined: 02-11-2014
Posts: 17,372
borndead1 wrote:
Nothing was written about him during the time that he allegedly lived. Jesus is just a hodgepodge mashup of several previous messiahs/saviors.


Most of what we know of Jesus of Nazareth was written hundreds of years after his death and multiple other storylines converge to the one we see today.
fishinguitarman Offline
#58 Posted: Sat, Jan 11 2020, 7:04 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
Well played TW
Whistlebritches Offline
#59 Posted: Sat, Jan 11 2020, 11:28 PM EST
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
fishinguitarman wrote:
Well played TW



TW is Lucifer's 3rd cousin once removed on his mom's side
teedubbya Offline
#60 Posted: Sat, Jan 11 2020, 11:34 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
We just call him Lou.
frankj1 Offline
#61 Posted: Sat, Jan 11 2020, 11:37 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
danmdevries wrote:
Most of what we know of Jesus of Nazareth was written hundreds of years after his death

they googled it
teedubbya Offline
#62 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 12:12 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It was several thousand years BG.
izonfire Offline
#63 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 12:22 AM EST
Joined: 12-09-2013
Posts: 8,647
Believe whatever the fucque you like. That is your right.
But don’t dare destroy someone else’s life because of it.
CelticBomber Offline
#64 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 1:56 AM EST
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
I always wondered why people who believe in Jesus never bother to use his real name... Jesus is the Greek translation of Joshua which in turn is the modern equivalent of Yeshua. If you're going to believe in someone wouldn't you want to get his name right? Every time there is one of those documentaries where someone claims to have found his tomb they hop up and down losing their minds yelling "Look! Look! It say's Here lies Jesus brother of James! We found it!" It's like finding a coin that has the date 200 B.C. on it.

Every story in the King James Bible can be found in earlier non-christian stories. The story of Noah's Ark is taken directly from the Epic of Gilgamesh which in turn is a retelling of a MUCH older story. Faith can be an amazing thing. Blind faith can also be amazing. But, just because something is amazing doesn't mean it's good.

I'd love to see a fundamentalist of any of the major religion's go back in time 500 years and state their beliefs. They'd be burned at the stake as a witch by the very people they claim to share their religion with. " What do you mean slavery is wrong? God DEMANDS it! You won't sell your 6 year old daughter into a marriage? How dare you! Heretic!

The more we learn and understand our world and the universe the more the definition of what God and religion are changes. That tends to upset the faithful because they are then forced to think and accept responsibility for their own actions.
tailgater Offline
#65 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 11:15 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
borndead1 wrote:
Nothing was written about him during the time that he allegedly lived. Jesus is just a hodgepodge mashup of several previous messiahs/saviors.


Allegedly lived?
LOL!
tailgater Offline
#66 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 11:25 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
CelticBomber wrote:
I always wondered why people who believe in Jesus never bother to use his real name... Jesus is the Greek translation of Joshua which in turn is the modern equivalent of Yeshua. If you're going to believe in someone wouldn't you want to get his name right? Every time there is one of those documentaries where someone claims to have found his tomb they hop up and down losing their minds yelling "Look! Look! It say's Here lies Jesus brother of James! We found it!" It's like finding a coin that has the date 200 B.C. on it.

Every story in the King James Bible can be found in earlier non-christian stories. The story of Noah's Ark is taken directly from the Epic of Gilgamesh which in turn is a retelling of a MUCH older story. Faith can be an amazing thing. Blind faith can also be amazing. But, just because something is amazing doesn't mean it's good.

I'd love to see a fundamentalist of any of the major religion's go back in time 500 years and state their beliefs. They'd be burned at the stake as a witch by the very people they claim to share their religion with. " What do you mean slavery is wrong? God DEMANDS it! You won't sell your 6 year old daughter into a marriage? How dare you! Heretic!

The more we learn and understand our world and the universe the more the definition of what God and religion are changes. That tends to upset the faithful because they are then forced to think and accept responsibility for their own actions.


You're confusing religion with faith.

And you're being disingenuous.

A reasonable person would not "wonder" why people use the name Jesus. That is the name that Christian religions use.
You're putting too much effort into trying to prove your negative.

As much as I personally no longer subscribe to any Church, I've always marveled at the immense good they do at the local level.
Then I read posts like yours and I have to question why you ignore the good and point fingers.

Look at your last sentence. If that's not bitter cynicism then nothing is.
borndead1 Offline
#67 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 12:53 PM EST
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,216
tailgater wrote:
Allegedly lived?
LOL!


Yes, allegedly. The time period is quite well documented, and there are zero documentations from the time period about Jesus. Literally everything written about him was written long after he allegedly lived.
CelticBomber Offline
#68 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 1:16 PM EST
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
tailgater wrote:
You're confusing religion with faith.

And you're being disingenuous.

A reasonable person would not "wonder" why people use the name Jesus. That is the name that Christian religions use.
You're putting too much effort into trying to prove your negative.

As much as I personally no longer subscribe to any Church, I've always marveled at the immense good they do at the local level.
Then I read posts like yours and I have to question why you ignore the good and point fingers.

Look at your last sentence. If that's not bitter cynicism then nothing is.


You put more of your own feelings into what I wrote than I did. If you're going to believe in the guy getting his name right is unreasonable? Or is it regardless of the truth you're going to stick with what you were told as a kid.. which is why you believe in him in the first place. How is that disingenuous? Especially when I gave an example of why I think it's funny. People finding a tomb with the name Jesus on it and claiming it's his tomb has happened numerous times and been broadcast on TV. Are you sure you're using disingenuous properly or does it just sound good?

Saying I ignored any good any church has done is actually being "disingenuous" since I never made any claim about any church's good deeds. Or bad. Where did that comment come from? Oh, that's right, you added it in there just so you could argue it as if I made the claim. That's okay though, it's par for the course here.

I did not confuse faith with religion. I commented on both.

Where is the cynicism in my last sentence? As civilization and our understanding of our world has advanced, religions have had to cut out those inconvenient verses that at one time were dogma. That's not cynicism that's the truth. If people believe those verses came directly from God himself then someone has some serious explaining to do.

Religion does not have a monopoly on morality. Morality existed before any religion did.
MACS Offline
#69 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 2:38 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,776
I read the Bible from cover to cover twice. Once from Genesis to Revelations, and then again with a "reading plan" that jumped from the prequel to the sequel (a nod to my buddy Frank) and back. A study bible with foot notes attempting explanations.

I was looking for answers.

I found more questions.

My answer now is... I don't know, and neither does anyone else.
Brewha Offline
#70 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 2:53 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
I would describe myself as an agnostic. Which is actually a philosophical belief. The short version is that it is the belief that some things are un knowable.

I do believe that each person comes to know God in their own way. Which would make me a heretic to the Christians.

Lastly, when we get to the whole “who is right” thing about God, I think Ernest Becker got it right.
No, don’t look him up or read him. No one much likes what he had to say.
teedubbya Offline
#71 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 9:00 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Fond as I am in Tibetian cooking, a hungry lion always hunts best. KnowhatImean?
fishinguitarman Offline
#72 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 9:21 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
While much was written about JESUS was after the crucifixtion and eminent Resurrection, it took the factional events of HIS life to inspire the compilation of what happened in HIS life. HIS miracles and teachings were witnessed by thousands and thousands of people.
tailgater Offline
#73 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 9:23 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
CelticBomber wrote:
You put more of your own feelings into what I wrote than I did. If you're going to believe in the guy getting his name right is unreasonable? Or is it regardless of the truth you're going to stick with what you were told as a kid.. which is why you believe in him in the first place. How is that disingenuous? Especially when I gave an example of why I think it's funny. People finding a tomb with the name Jesus on it and claiming it's his tomb has happened numerous times and been broadcast on TV. Are you sure you're using disingenuous properly or does it just sound good?

Saying I ignored any good any church has done is actually being "disingenuous" since I never made any claim about any church's good deeds. Or bad. Where did that comment come from? Oh, that's right, you added it in there just so you could argue it as if I made the claim. That's okay though, it's par for the course here.

I did not confuse faith with religion. I commented on both.

Where is the cynicism in my last sentence? As civilization and our understanding of our world has advanced, religions have had to cut out those inconvenient verses that at one time were dogma. That's not cynicism that's the truth. If people believe those verses came directly from God himself then someone has some serious explaining to do.

Religion does not have a monopoly on morality. Morality existed before any religion did.


Huh.
I missed the post where someone claimed religion held a monopoly on morality.

And your cynicism is where you claim that people of faith shirk personal responsibility. If that's your understanding of religion then you either fail to grasp the entirety of the message, or you twist a single aspect to make your point while ignoring the charitable bounty so often associated with local churches.
Pretty sure that's the pure definition of being a cynic.

As for the name? Why do you care what others call him? Even in regards to a forged tomb. Fake name on it? OK. But if the name was historically correct would it change your view? Rhetorical, of course. Which is why I call you out as disingenuous.
Strike that. Your post was disingenuous. I have faith that you are not.



tailgater Offline
#74 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 9:23 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
fishinguitarman wrote:
While much was written about JESUS was after the crucifixtion and eminent Resurrection, it took the factional events of HIS life to inspire the compilation of what happened in HIS life. HIS miracles and teachings were witnessed by thousands and thousands of people.


pics or it didn't happen.
fishinguitarman Offline
#75 Posted: Sun, Jan 12 2020, 9:28 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
I think there are some Polaroids
DrMaddVibe Offline
#76 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 7:10 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,431
borndead1 wrote:
Nothing was written about him during the time that he allegedly lived. Jesus is just a hodgepodge mashup of several previous messiahs/saviors.


About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.

http://www.josephus.org/testimonium.htm


Remember for a Roman to write a lie was punishable by death.
Brewha Offline
#77 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 8:33 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
This mornings reading is from the book of Logan:

"Carousel is a lie!"
teedubbya Offline
#78 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 9:55 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I don’t know the answer but it looks as if that was written past tense. rather than contemporary.

Didn’t follow the link though. Don’t care that much. I believe Jesus was a historical figure. Just intrigued buy the claimed lack of contemporary documentation. Hadn’t heard that before.

Columbus set sail in 1492 (or whatever). About that time a boy, if you want to call him a boy, named Jim was cleaning his fathers butcher shop when he made a discovery. Some of the scraps had fallen into the onion on his belt, which was the fashion at the time, and had been there for days.

When he pulled out the scraps and bit in to one it snapped and tasted glorious. Soon the treat caught on with everyone and it was named after him.

Even though I wrote this this morning it proves that not only did a boy named Jim exist in 1492 but around that time slim Jim’s were created and Columbus likely snapped in to one. And don’t forget about the belt.
dstieger Offline
#79 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 12:15 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Brewha wrote:
This mornings reading is from the book of Logan:

"Carousel is a lie!"



You know if they'd up the age from 30 to say....70 or so...I could probably get behind the concept
Brewha Offline
#80 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 2:30 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
DrMaddVibe wrote:


Remember for a Roman to write a lie was punishable by death.


So that is why Rome fell...... Think
frankj1 Offline
#81 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 2:38 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Brewha wrote:
So that is why Rome fell...... Think

snopesed it.
not true. lies were encouraged.
fishinguitarman Offline
#82 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 3:20 PM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
That is actually documented fact
DrMaddVibe Offline
#83 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 3:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,431
Brewha wrote:
So that is why Rome fell...... Think




No, they fell the same way America is.

From within and under the debt of war.
teedubbya Offline
#84 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 3:55 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Rome had an orange satan?
Brewha Offline
#85 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 4:00 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
I was called the "Make Rome Great Again" movement....
borndead1 Offline
#86 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 9:36 PM EST
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,216
DrMaddVibe wrote:
About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.

http://www.josephus.org/testimonium.htm


Remember for a Roman to write a lie was punishable by death.


Where does this claim come from? Link, please.


All the Josephus nonsense has been known to basically be a forgery since the mid 1800s. The only people who still hold onto that stuff are Christians desperate to point to some kind of 'proof' of Jesus' existence.

And again, none of this was written during the time that Jesus allegedly lived. Josephus himself was 2 yrs old when Jesus allegedly died (or he was born 2 yrs after, I can't remember which it was).


Mrs. dpnewell Offline
#87 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 9:41 PM EST
Joined: 08-23-2014
Posts: 1,373
Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. Too much has happened in my life, and I've seen too many miracles and answers to prayer to believe it all happened by chance. With that said, I feel that most organized religion has done much to damage the name of Christ and His true teachings. What requires more faith? To believe in a creator God, or believe that everything came from nothing?

David
Brewha Offline
#88 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 10:18 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
Mrs. dpnewell wrote:
Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. Too much has happened in my life, and I've seen too many miracles and answers to prayer to believe it all happened by chance. With that said, I feel that most organized religion has done much to damage the name of Christ and His true teachings. What requires more faith? To believe in a creator God, or believe that everything came from nothing?

David

Believing in God, Christ, Allah, require faith. And study and collaborative learning of the faith.

I know of no cosmological view that claims everything came from nothing. Even an atheist would say life is an emergent quality of mater. I’m guessing you mean to say to believe that everything came without a creator, that is occurring by nature without intelligent design.

But I suppose there are those that would say the wind comes from nothing....
frankj1 Offline
#89 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 10:21 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
is this the new 1 Billion?
Whistlebritches Offline
#90 Posted: Mon, Jan 13 2020, 10:30 PM EST
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
Mrs. dpnewell wrote:
Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. Too much has happened in my life, and I've seen too many miracles and answers to prayer to believe it all happened by chance. With that said, I feel that most organized religion has done much to damage the name of Christ and His true teachings. What requires more faith? To believe in a creator God, or believe that everything came from nothing?

David



Well said...…..I had an Astronomy professor at Fresno State that assigned us in groups to projects.One project was to build something representing our solar system.My team built some small scale earth with the moon off in the distance but one group had gotten permission to come in early and set their project up.They had built damn near the entire universe on a piece of 4'X8' piece of plywood.It was frigging amazing even though it was only 2 dimensional.Hundreds of pieces of thin wire holding various planets and stars.Anyway the professor came in and was quite pleased as he walked around their project oohing and ahhing………...it was quite apparent who was getting a good grade here.One of the students came in late and as he was walking by the project he,obviously quite impressed,asked "where did this come from" to which the professor replied "oh it just appeared".

I have no question as to intelligent design and neither did the professor.
fishinguitarman Offline
#91 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 12:22 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
Frank! Yep!
Brewha Offline
#92 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 10:09 AM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
frankj1 wrote:
is this the new 1 Billion?
Think
bgz Offline
#93 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 10:31 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
borndead1 wrote:
Where does this claim come from? Link, please.


All the Josephus nonsense has been known to basically be a forgery since the mid 1800s. The only people who still hold onto that stuff are Christians desperate to point to some kind of 'proof' of Jesus' existence.

And again, none of this was written during the time that Jesus allegedly lived. Josephus himself was 2 yrs old when Jesus allegedly died (or he was born 2 yrs after, I can't remember which it was).




I'm with you on this branch of the conversation. The Romans were very good record keepers and have a very, very long list of people they executed over the years... unfortunately, Jesus's name wasn't on it.

There's no actual proof that he existed. That's where the faith comes in. For some people, they need faith, because they feel they cannot be a good, moral person without some omnipresent being looking over their shoulder.

I ask this, if a person cannot be moral without fear of eternal fire and brimstone, is that person even worth saving?

Also, the part that I get stuck on personally, the part that prevents me from being a believer... we can see the same amount of space in all directions... that means the universe is of a far greater size than all that we can even see. If the being referred to as god has dominion over all that there is, even that which we can't see, then what makes you think he gives a flying **** about us?

Further, if his dominion is the entire universe, then we are clearly not made in his image, because if the universe looks like other structures in the universe, if we did, we would all be floating spirals or discs.

Also, if the being truly does exist, and the words of the bible are true... then why can't we have sex on women's periods? If he truly cared about that, he wouldn't have invented towels... proof.

Even further, if everyone up in heaven is as stuffy as the believers say you should be... screw that, rather hang out with the rockstars and hookers in hell if that's the only 2 choices you get. Seriously though, heaven sounds boring. Rather go to Valhalla, that place sounds more fun, and in my opinion, is just as likely to exist.

Oh, and Dan's post was the biggest Carlin quote I ever seen :D
teedubbya Offline
#94 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 10:40 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think faith is a good thing.

I keep seeing a recurrent theme on the church built by man however.

It’s amazing for me to watch churches build such great wealth while teaching a story about Jesus getting in trouble for chastising the church of the time for doing the same thing.

If or when there is a second coming it may be because god is pushed at the repeat and quite a few folks might be surprised what side of it they are on.

At least that’s what my carrot spirit guide says.
teedubbya Offline
#95 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 10:41 AM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Pushed equals pissed. To lazy to fix.
dstieger Offline
#96 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:06 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
teedubbya wrote:
I think faith is a good thing.




How so?
fishinguitarman Offline
#97 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:08 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,148
“But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬
dstieger Offline
#98 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:17 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Ray, what does that mean?
dstieger Offline
#99 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 11:24 AM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Faith based on reason I can justify in my mind.....but it sure seems to make scripture (and much of religion) an impossible road, imo.
Blind faith (to me) is one GIANT step backwards for man. I'm thinking that your god gave you the ability to think and reason at least partly to differentiate you from sheep and lemmings.
teedubbya Offline
#100 Posted: Tue, Jan 14 2020, 12:15 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Faith in general. Not necessarily to one religion or religion at all. I just think some sort of faith is important to the human psyche and without it we start to unravel. Just my opinion. Can’t prove it.
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