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1st Ammendment
Stogie1020 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,344
And THIS is why our 1st Ammendment is so important...

Norwegian filmmaker faces up to 3 years in prison for saying men cannot be lesbians

https://www.foxnews.com/media/norwegian-filmmaker-faces-3-years-prison-saying-men-cannot-lesbians

Quote:
A woman in Norway is facing up to 3 years in prison on criminal hate-speech charges after saying that a man cannot become a lesbian.

Tonje Gjevjon, a lesbian filmmaker and actress, was informed on November 17 that she was under investigation for speaking out against prominent Norwegian activist Christine Jentoft on Facebook. Jentoft is a transgender female that often refers to herself as a lesbian mother.

Jentoft previously accused another woman, Christina Ellingsen, of transphobia for a similar claim. Ellingsen is also under investigation and faces three years in jail if found guilty.

The post on Gjevjon’s Facebook page under investigation read "It’s just as impossible for men to become a lesbian as it is for men to become pregnant. Men are men regardless of their sexual fetishes."
RayR Online
#2 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,895
What a fugged up world LEFTY has created. Brick wall
HockeyDad Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,136
Lock her up.

I have it on good information that over half the world is gay or lesbian. You don’t get any points for that anymore.

She offended a transgender female - that should be punishable by prison time.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,444
I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,668
Every golf outing, every par 5, I tell my teammates I identify as a lesbian. But they still don't let me hit from the forward tee.

Lock 'em up
HockeyDad Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,136
Sunoverbeach wrote:
Every golf outing, every par 5, I tell my teammates I identify as a lesbian. But they still don't let me hit from the forward tee.

Lock 'em up


Maybe put on a skirt. A little make up. Put some effort into it.
RayR Online
#7 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,895
HockeyDad wrote:
Maybe put on a skirt. A little make up. Put some effort into it.


Yup, they say you've got to dress the part to be the part.
MACS Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,796
Paul Harvey's "If I were the devil" has absolutely come to life.

Anyone who can't see the parallels to 1984 and Atlas Shrugged are just being obtuse at this point.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,668
HockeyDad wrote:
Maybe put on a skirt. A little make up. Put some effort into it.

I can identify as a butch lesbian
RayR Online
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,895
Sunoverbeach wrote:
I can identify as a butch lesbian


Go for it SOB, I heard WOKENESS liberates you from the constraints of the natural world.
rfenst Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
I love Freedom of Speech and Free Speech.
rfenst Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
UF told to pay $372K in legal fees in suit over professors’ free speech


A federal judge has awarded more than $372,000 in legal fees to attorneys who represented professors in a high-profile lawsuit against the University of Florida over being able to serve as expert witnesses in court cases. Chief U.S. District Judge Mark Walker last week issued a 35-page ruling that rejected arguments by the university that it should not have to cover the fees. Walker awarded $372,219 in fees to attorneys from two firms, while also tacking on $1,575 in costs.
RiverRatRuss Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 09-02-2022
Posts: 1,035
DrMaddVibe wrote:
I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body.


That makes two of us!!! Guess I need to cancel my trip to Norway Now!!! d'oh! Brick wall Herfing
rfenst Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
High court won’t revive state’s drag show law

Justices deny DeSantis administration’s request to enforce statute


News Service of Florida/Orlando Sentinel

TALLAHASSEE — A divided U.S. Supreme Court on Thursday rejected a request from Gov. Ron DeSantis’ administration that would have allowed enforcement of a new state law aimed at preventing children from attending drag shows.

U.S. District Judge Gregory Presnell this summer issued a statewide preliminary injunction against the law, finding that it violated First Amendment rights. The ruling came in a lawsuit filed by Orlando restaurant and bar Hamburger Mary’s.

The DeSantis administration appealed Presnell’s ruling to the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals and also sought a partial stay that would have allowed the state to enforce the law against all venues in Florida — except Hamburger Mary’s — while the legal battle continues to play out.

After Presnell and a panel of the Atlanta-based appeals court rejected the state’s request for a partial stay, lawyers representing Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation Secretary Melanie Griffin, the named defendant in the case, took the issue to the Supreme Court.

But the Supreme Court denied the request Thursday, effectively keeping in place the statewide preliminary injunction.
The decision did not give a full breakdown of the justices’ positions but it said Justices Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito and Neil Gorsuch would have granted the request for a stay.

The law, dubbed by sponsors as the “Protection of Children Act,” would prevent venues from admitting children to adult live performances. It defines adult live performances as “any show, exhibition, or other presentation in front of a live audience, which, in whole or in part, depicts or simulates nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement or specific sexual activities, … lewd conduct, or the lewd exposure of prosthetic or imitation genitals or breasts.”

Regulators would be able to suspend or revoke licenses of restaurants, bars and other venues that violate the law. Also, it would prohibit local governments from issuing public permits for events that could expose children to the targeted behavior. In addition, people could face first-degree misdemeanor charges for “knowingly” admitting children to adult live performances.

While the law does not specifically mention drag shows, it came after the DeSantis administration cracked down on venues in South Florida and Central Florida where children attended drag shows.

In issuing the preliminary injunction, Presnell wrote that law “is specifically designed to suppress the speech of drag queen performers” and the state “already has statutes” that protect children from seeing obscene performances.

“Defendant professes that a statewide preliminary injunction would ‘harm the public by exposing children to ‘adult live performances,’” Presnell wrote. “This concern rings hollow, however, when accompanied by the knowledge that Florida state law, presently and independently of the instant (new) statutory scheme, permits any minor to attend an R-rated film at a movie theater if accompanied by a parent or guardian.”

But in asking the Supreme Court for a partial stay, lawyers for the state said the case is not a class action. and that Hamburger Mary’s is the only plaintiff that “claims that the statute unconstitutionally deters it from presenting to children live drag shows that are not sexually explicit.”
RayR Online
#15 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,895
Sooo...Chicks with Dix performing aberrant lewd suggestive acts on stage with the goal of radicalizing and sexualizing children is not sexually explicit? Eh?
Good call Judgy.

Even though Drag Queen's will vehemently deny that they are being groomers, they at the same time admit that grooming children is exactly their goal.

rfenst Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
RayR wrote:
Sooo...Chicks with Dix performing aberrant lewd suggestive acts on stage with the goal of radicalizing and sexualizing children is not sexually explicit? Eh?
Good call Judgy.

Even though Drag Queen's will vehemently deny that they are being groomers, they at the same time admit that grooming children is exactly their goal.
So, you have personal knowledge of all of your post because you regularly go to drag shows all over the country, including the one in question?
.
HockeyDad Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,136
Children do not need to be at drag shows.
Brewha Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,182
And the battle for the rights of the homophobic wages on…..
rfenst Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
HockeyDad wrote:
Children do not need to be at drag shows.

"Need" = NO.

Parental discretion over their own child and their knowledge of what they are exposing them to that is not pornography = YES.
HockeyDad Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,136
Children not being allowed at topless bars is a violation of the strippers’ first amendment rights.

HockeyDad Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,136
Brewha wrote:
And the battle for the rights of the homophobic wages on…..


Look…up in the sky….it’s a virtue signal!
RayR Online
#22 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,895
HockeyDad wrote:
Children not being allowed at topless bars is a violation of the strippers’ first amendment rights.



I agree, children should have the legal right to see strippers and to experience their sexual gyrations humping poles and stuff.
rfenst Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
RayR wrote:
I agree, children should have the legal right to see strippers and to experience their sexual gyrations humping poles and stuff.

Is that what you see at the drag shows you attend?
RayR Online
#24 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,895
rfenst wrote:
Is that what you see at the drag shows you attend?


I'm going to start calling you STRAWMAN ROBERT.
rfenst Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
RayR wrote:
I'm going to start calling you STRAWMAN ROBERT.

That isn't a strawman argument.
It's an "implied/loaded question."
Like: Do you still beat your wife?
RayR Online
#26 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,895
rfenst wrote:
I think you need either a class in logic about fallacies or look up the definition of what a strawman argument actually is. Implying or inquiring your facts is not a strawman.


Com'on Robert, we know when you are building a straw man. Implying I attend drag shows? Really?

"A straw man argument, sometimes called a straw person argument or spelled strawman argument, is the logical fallacy of distorting an opposing position into an extreme version of itself and then arguing against that extreme version. In creating a straw man argument, the arguer strips the opposing point of view of any nuance and often misrepresents it in a negative light."

How does these grab you? I've heard you can't groom them too early. First comes Drag Queen story hour, then comes LGBTQ..LMNOP porn books that you were mad about DiSantis taking out of school libraries that you said was like BOOK BURNING. 🔥.

How do you like the first article where they billed it euphemistically as a: "inclusive family celebration"? I've heard that "if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought."

My kid’s day care invited a drag queen to entertain on family day — is this appropriate?

By Eleanor Katelaris, Kidspot
Published Nov. 18, 2023, 5:06 p.m. ET

Quote:
In the Eastern Suburbs Moms Facebook group, a first-time mom’s question recently stirred the pot of parenting perspectives.

Her child’s day care is planning to bring in a drag queen as part of an ‘inclusive family celebration’– but she notes that Mother’s Day and Father’s Day aren’t celebrated at all.

She’s now grappling with her thoughts about this, wondering if she’s being “too conservative” for thinking it could be “inappropriate.”
“Am I out of touch?”

“Hi Moms, what would you think of a drag queen being brought in as guest entertainment at your child’s day care during childcare hours?” she begins the post.

“The context is an inclusive family celebration theme – Mother’s Day and Father’s Day are not otherwise celebrated,” she continued.

More...

https://nypost.com/2023/11/18/lifestyle/my-kids-day-care-invited-a-drag-queen-to-entertain-on-family-day-is-this-appropriate/


Oklahoma district that hired drag queen to be elementary school principal faces backlash: 'Unimaginable'


'This is the liberal insanity every parent wants out of the classroom,' Oklahoma's education superintendent said

By Hannah Grossman Fox News
Published September 7, 2023 6:00pm EDT

Quote:
EXCLUSIVE – The superintendent of the State of Oklahoma, Ryan Walters, called for Western Heights School District to "immediately" terminate a drag queen they hired to be an elementary school principal.

"It's outrageous to have a drag queen running a school, you know, here in Oklahoma that doesn't line up with Oklahoma values," Walters told Fox News Digital. "I hear from parents every day that are concerned with this woke left-wing indoctrination or schools, this gender theory that continues to be thrust upon our kids. It's completely inappropriate."

The principal of John Glenn Elementary School, Shane Murnan, is a drag queen who goes by the name "Shantel Mandalay," Fox News Digital can confirm. Murnan maintained a separate Facebook page from another called "Shantel Mandalay." According to the page, Murnan was employed as a drag queen at a venue called "The Boom."

"This individual is not fit to lead a school district," Walters said. "It has to stop."

Dressed as a drag queen, Murnan has read books to children to celebrate Pride for the Metropolitan Library System.

Walters added that the gender ideology integration in K-12 education is part of a larger Marxist agenda from the left.

More...

https://www.foxnews.com/media/oklahoma-official-unimaginable-elementary-school-hired-principal-secret-drag-queen-life




















?
rfenst Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
State leaders muzzle Floridians who want to speak out


Orlando Sentinel Editorial Board

Floridians, take notice. Your right to a representative government is being stolen away.

Recent headlines document angry eruptions among an audience of people who show up to meetings ready to tell their leaders what they think — only to be muzzled by time limits that shut down some would-be participants before they could utter a single word.

More often, however, the exclusion is happening quietly and secretly, in meetings that never take place. Closed doors that should be open. A row of empty seats on a dais, facing a roomful of chairs that are also empty.

The result, however, is the same: The only people who can register their concerns face-to-face with their elected officials are the elites who can afford the private clubs and campaign contributions that give them direct access to power. The voices of regular Floridians are shut out or told to shut up.Let us speak’

That latter command stirred an outcry November 9-10 when the Board of Governors of Florida’s state university system convened in Orlando. As the Sentinel’s Annie Martin reported, a crowd primed to protest rules that threaten free-expression rights on Florida campuses overspilled the boundaries of the meeting room and a designated overflow room.

In a cruelly related dictate, Board Chairman Brian Lamb denied them the right to speak in favor of free speech, diversity and inclusion — by imposing a 15-minute time limit on all public comment. When he gaveled the discussion to a close, the crowd chanted “Let us speak.” But a majority of board members were unwilling to listen.

Lamb said the limitation was “customary,” Martin reported. That’s categorically false. Across Florida, elected and appointed boards and commissions have taken it as a point of pride: When their constituents show up to a public meeting, they deserve the opportunity to be heard. It’s even enshrined in the state constitution.

A brutal quiet
Even worse, however, are those meetings that never take place. The public is not just shut out of a chance to talk about what their elected officials are doing — they are denied the chance to listen.

That was also on display — or rather, not — over the past week, which was one of the last scheduled committee weeks before the state Legislature starts its regular session in January.

‘These committee meetings are essential parts of Florida’s legislative process, because they are the public’s only opportunity to directly address lawmakers on issues that are important to everyday Floridians. Of 35 House committees, 16 canceled their meetings last week; the ratio was even worse in the Senate, where 17 of 26 committees did not meet. Among them: All 10 of the committees Sen. Linda Stewart, D-Orlando, serves on, including Banking and Insurance; Governmental Oversight and Accountability; and Appropriations. Stewart said she didn’t even bother to return to Tallahassee after the November 6-10 special session.

The cost of those cancellations could be devastating for Floridians who hoped to ask lawmakers for statutory changes governing everything from homeowners’ associations to prison conditions — or to register their opposition to policies that take away essential freedoms or reduce oversight. Because legislation must be heard in at least one committee before it goes to the floor, shutting down committee meetings means narrowing the pipeline that allows that information to flow. It also means an increased likelihood that lawmakers will seek to link their unheard bills to other legislation — creating massive “trains” that thunder through the legislative process before anyone can register what’s happening.

We’d like Senate President Kathleen Passidomo and House Speaker Paul Renner to explain why these meetings were canceled, and pledge that legislation will be given ample public hearing time.

Stewart says she’s worried that many of her bills will die on the vine. That includes tax exemptions for local businesses, and a request from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to preserve evidence that supports victims of sexual assault. Lately, she said, she’s hearing disturbing rumors that an entire week’s worth of committee meetings in December might also be canceled. “We’re already at a breaking point,” she told the Orlando Sentinel Thursday. “I’ve never seen anything like this happen before.”

Closed doors
But it has — with the Florida Cabinet, a governmental construction that is unique to this state. The Cabinet includes the governor along with three independent, statewide leaders — the attorney general, the chief financial officer and the commissioner of agriculture and consumer services. It’s intended to serve as a check over a governor’s executive power by providing independent oversight for executive-branch operations and finances. The same officials make up several independent boards, such as the State Board of Administration, which oversees the state’s multi-billion-dollar investment accounts; the Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory Commission, charged with protecting the state’s environment while hearing appeals of local growth decisions and the State Board of Executive Clemency, which considers civil rights of former felons.

In a normal year, the Cabinet (and the associated commissions) would have met at least 11 times, usually over a two-day span. This year, the Cabinet met five times. Three of those meetings were by phone. One, on March 13, was only seven minutes long.

This is how Floridians lose their chance to be heard. The business of state government grinds on — but it does so in secret, with no oversight, no chance to voice protest or encouragement to those entrusted with vast power.

Floridians must confront their elected and appointed leaders and demand change. It will be hard, since they can’t even see, right now, what opportunities are being taken away. It may require more amendments to the state constitution — but even that is no guarantee, since many provisions meant to hold Florida’s leaders accountable are being trampled. In the end, all Floridians can do is register our outrage directly to elected officials and in the voting booth.

Our birthright is sunshine. But darkness is taking hold.
RayR Online
#28 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,895
Muzzling Floridians? That's authoritarianism taking hold, by members of both political parties too If I surmise correctly.

RiverRatRuss Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 09-02-2022
Posts: 1,035
rfenst wrote:
State leaders muzzle Floridians who want to speak out


Orlando Sentinel Editorial Board

Floridians, take notice. Your right to a representative government is being stolen away.

Recent headlines document angry eruptions among an audience of people who show up to meetings ready to tell their leaders what they think — only to be muzzled by time limits that shut down some would-be participants before they could utter a single word.

More often, however, the exclusion is happening quietly and secretly, in meetings that never take place. Closed doors that should be open. A row of empty seats on a dais, facing a roomful of chairs that are also empty.

The result, however, is the same: The only people who can register their concerns face-to-face with their elected officials are the elites who can afford the private clubs and campaign contributions that give them direct access to power. The voices of regular Floridians are shut out or told to shut up.Let us speak’

That latter command stirred an outcry November 9-10 when the Board of Governors of Florida’s state university system convened in Orlando. As the Sentinel’s Annie Martin reported, a crowd primed to protest rules that threaten free-expression rights on Florida campuses overspilled the boundaries of the meeting room and a designated overflow room.

In a cruelly related dictate, Board Chairman Brian Lamb denied them the right to speak in favor of free speech, diversity and inclusion — by imposing a 15-minute time limit on all public comment. When he gaveled the discussion to a close, the crowd chanted “Let us speak.” But a majority of board members were unwilling to listen.

Lamb said the limitation was “customary,” Martin reported. That’s categorically false. Across Florida, elected and appointed boards and commissions have taken it as a point of pride: When their constituents show up to a public meeting, they deserve the opportunity to be heard. It’s even enshrined in the state constitution.

A brutal quiet
Even worse, however, are those meetings that never take place. The public is not just shut out of a chance to talk about what their elected officials are doing — they are denied the chance to listen.

That was also on display — or rather, not — over the past week, which was one of the last scheduled committee weeks before the state Legislature starts its regular session in January.

‘These committee meetings are essential parts of Florida’s legislative process, because they are the public’s only opportunity to directly address lawmakers on issues that are important to everyday Floridians. Of 35 House committees, 16 canceled their meetings last week; the ratio was even worse in the Senate, where 17 of 26 committees did not meet. Among them: All 10 of the committees Sen. Linda Stewart, D-Orlando, serves on, including Banking and Insurance; Governmental Oversight and Accountability; and Appropriations. Stewart said she didn’t even bother to return to Tallahassee after the November 6-10 special session.

The cost of those cancellations could be devastating for Floridians who hoped to ask lawmakers for statutory changes governing everything from homeowners’ associations to prison conditions — or to register their opposition to policies that take away essential freedoms or reduce oversight. Because legislation must be heard in at least one committee before it goes to the floor, shutting down committee meetings means narrowing the pipeline that allows that information to flow. It also means an increased likelihood that lawmakers will seek to link their unheard bills to other legislation — creating massive “trains” that thunder through the legislative process before anyone can register what’s happening.

We’d like Senate President Kathleen Passidomo and House Speaker Paul Renner to explain why these meetings were canceled, and pledge that legislation will be given ample public hearing time.

Stewart says she’s worried that many of her bills will die on the vine. That includes tax exemptions for local businesses, and a request from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to preserve evidence that supports victims of sexual assault. Lately, she said, she’s hearing disturbing rumors that an entire week’s worth of committee meetings in December might also be canceled. “We’re already at a breaking point,” she told the Orlando Sentinel Thursday. “I’ve never seen anything like this happen before.”

Closed doors
But it has — with the Florida Cabinet, a governmental construction that is unique to this state. The Cabinet includes the governor along with three independent, statewide leaders — the attorney general, the chief financial officer and the commissioner of agriculture and consumer services. It’s intended to serve as a check over a governor’s executive power by providing independent oversight for executive-branch operations and finances. The same officials make up several independent boards, such as the State Board of Administration, which oversees the state’s multi-billion-dollar investment accounts; the Florida Land and Water Adjudicatory Commission, charged with protecting the state’s environment while hearing appeals of local growth decisions and the State Board of Executive Clemency, which considers civil rights of former felons.

In a normal year, the Cabinet (and the associated commissions) would have met at least 11 times, usually over a two-day span. This year, the Cabinet met five times. Three of those meetings were by phone. One, on March 13, was only seven minutes long.

This is how Floridians lose their chance to be heard. The business of state government grinds on — but it does so in secret, with no oversight, no chance to voice protest or encouragement to those entrusted with vast power.

Floridians must confront their elected and appointed leaders and demand change. It will be hard, since they can’t even see, right now, what opportunities are being taken away. It may require more amendments to the state constitution — but even that is no guarantee, since many provisions meant to hold Florida’s leaders accountable are being trampled. In the end, all Floridians can do is register our outrage directly to elected officials and in the voting booth.

Our birthright is sunshine. But darkness is taking hold.


Good Read Robert and Factual as well... I am hitting the same roadblocks with Our State Here with my situation that has lasted 25 months now... I finally wrote this following email to two Attorney General office workers where one of them suggested I take my complaints to the States Attorney's office and with that she could have sent my documents up channel because they share the same damn building, but with COVID-19 as their reasons for lack luster Job performance where most workers only have to be in office once or twice a week.. the norm has turned to clock in clock out and draw a paycheck and fugg the little guys with factual complaints!!! the only AG employee who's been working solutions to our situation is in Chicago, and I honestly feel the worker in the Springfield office has been persuaded per 'say? 7th Judicial Court System runs two counties Sangamon and Morgan.. and I've produced evidence stemming back to 2007 where a lawyer for a legal firm who handles city business won a case on Falsified information and the Party along with myself as seeking Justice supposedly afforded under States Laws whereas the party any myself would be States Witness to the crimes committed... but cutting through the Red Tape is like fighting for your rights with the VA as a Veteran.. so i'll post my letter written to both these office workers as one has been dragging their feet on the issues...

and to think... Florida is considered a Conservative Red State.. Brick wall d'oh!
this gives a broad insite to this entire Nation going to the Dogs!!! d'oh!
BuckyB93 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,208
RiverRatRuss wrote:
Any Updates?



Rather entertaining Russ. Lot's trying to dance and wiggle on their end. No answers, denial of responsibility and dancing around that they did not follow. The rules/laws/training that they are supposed to be following which are, I would think, clearly stated and documented. These are the rules and laws that you must follow as an authority for your position. If you can't or don't want to abide by these, then you should be relieved of duty... publicly since you are a public authority.

That guy stating that he does it for the benefit of the city. Does that include ignoring your requirements for training and reading and the rules and laws? WTF?... you are on the board but you don't know the rules or laws and requirements of the job?

He refuses to sign off that he read and understood the zoning laws? He says if they want him to sign some "stupid paper for doing something or not doing something - screw that!" Says he may or may not have gotten bonus for something. Ummm... what bonuses did you may or may get Mr. Board Member? And what something are you referring too Mr. Board Member?

I would have loved to have been at that meeting behind you calling them to the carpet. "This is a yes or no question. Please answer Yes or No. You are not under oath and this is not a court of law but please answer yes or no. Let me remind you that this is being recorded for the record. I will go around the room and ask the same yes or no questions to each board member for the record. We will not break until you each of you these 5 questions with yes or no."

They are elected or appointed officials that are supposed to serve the public. If you boil it down, the public is their boss so if they are screwing things up or playing games, they have to answer to the public. If they can't answer simple questions then there is something wrong.

My little town is going through similar things with closed door meetings with the Mayor and some of the folks sitting in City Hall and other places of influence. They got busted for such things by the State but have yet to address it.
ZRX1200 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
Watched those three vids, some first class turds there Russ.
8trackdisco Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,082
Ran into this article a couple days ago. Things are going in the wrong direction in the USA. If you really need (and we don't) another cautionary tale, look at England. Not only where they are currently, but how they got there- and how fast it went. A headspinner.

Posting the first couple paragraphs and a link.


British Police ‘Are Giving in to the Mob’
Critics say cops aren't enforcing the law fairly. Cops say they are scared to.

On October 17, a man posted a video on Twitter of a street in his East London neighborhood. There was a Turkish restaurant, a Dominos, graffiti—and lots of Palestinian flags.

“Look at this crap here,” the man, known only as John A, is heard saying. He has a working-class, Scottish accent. “You let them into the country, and this is the **** they come up with.”

Two weeks later, on the night of October 31, police officers showed up at John A’s apartment.

“The reason why we’re here,” one of the officers can be heard saying in a separate video, “is on the 17th of the 10th of 2023, in Bethnal Green Road, at 10:04, you were witnessed as saying, ‘Why are they over here, etc.? We let them into our country, etc.’ ”

The police then arrest John A on suspicion of a “racially aggravated offense,” a violation of the Public Order Act of 1986. (David Atherton, a journalist who spoke with John A, tweeted that John A “does not have a criminal record & was not arrested for breaking bail conditions, as some have suggested.”)

As John A is led to a police van, his wife—now battling stage 4 cancer—wails at the cops.

https://www.thefp.com/p/british-police-are-giving-in-to-the-mob

MACS Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,796
^I've seen the writing on the wall since O'bummer was in office.
ZRX1200 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
They will accuse you of what they do.

They need everyone upset, angry and confused.

Human life also needs devalued.
Gene363 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,821
Flag at Whitehouse.gov horse
rfenst Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
MACS wrote:
^I've seen the writing on the wall since O'bummer was in office.

I don't think it's related to any president as this started like 20 years ago, IMO.

Context is important and lacking here, but his speech is very much subject to HIS government's scrutiny. If that is all he said- and it was nearly overheard by someone else who reported it--- this would go way to far under the First Amendment.
RayR Online
#37 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,895
Far before 20 years ago, suppression of and punishments for engaging in civil liberties like free speech, all subject to arbitrary government scrutiny occurred many times in U.S history...the Federalists with Alien and Sedition Acts, Stinkin' Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus and jailing thousands of critics of his administration and political opponents without charges or trial, Woodrow Wilson's massive suppression of free speech during World War I, FDR's internment of 120,000 of Japanese-Americans without charges or trial. Probably some more.
RiverRatRuss Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 09-02-2022
Posts: 1,035
RayR wrote:
Far before 20 years ago, suppression of and punishments for engaging in civil liberties like free speech, all subject to arbitrary government scrutiny occurred many times in U.S history...the Federalists with Alien and Sedition Acts, Stinkin' Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus and jailing thousands of critics of his administration and political opponents without charges or trial, Woodrow Wilson's massive suppression of free speech during World War I, FDR's internment of 120,000 of Japanese-Americans without charges or trial. Probably some more.


Agreed!!! this is the most prominent example that sticks in my crawl...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
RayR Online
#39 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,895
RiverRatRuss wrote:
Agreed!!! this is the most prominent example that sticks in my crawl...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army


Armed government agents firing on peaceful protesters. Shameful!
rfenst Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
State Seeks Go-Ahead for Drag Show Law


News Service of Florida

TALLAHASSEE — After suffering a setback at the U.S. Supreme Court, attorneys for Gov. Ron DeSantis' administration on Friday told a federal appeals court that a law aimed at preventing children from attending drag shows is tailored to the state's "unquestioned interest in protecting children from exposure to obscenity."

The state, in a 73-page brief, argued that the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals should overturn a June ruling by U.S. District Judge Gregory Presnell that blocked enforcement of the law statewide. Presnell said the law, approved this spring by the Republican-led Legislature and DeSantis, violated First Amendment rights.

Attorneys representing Department of Business and Professional Regulation Secretary Melanie Griffin, the named defendant in the case, disputed in the brief that the law violates the First Amendment and said it is narrowly focused on the ages of children.

“Because of this feature, the act does not unnecessarily deny or impede access of adults to communications that are constitutionally protected for them,” said the brief, filed by lawyers in Attorney General Ashley Moody’s office. “The act proscribes only the knowing exposure of a child to unprotected speech — speech that is obscene for children of that age. It is therefore entirely consistent with the First Amendment.”


The Orlando restaurant and bar Hamburger Mary’s filed the lawsuit in May, saying in court documents that it had run “family friendly” drag shows for 15 years. Presnell ruled that the law is not “sufficiently narrowly tailored” to meet First Amendment standards and issued a preliminary injunction that applied to venues throughout the state.

While the state quickly appealed Presnell’s ruling to the Atlanta-based appeals court, the two sides battled for months about whether the injunction should be applied statewide while the legal fight continued.

Presnell and the appeals court refused a state request for a partial stay that would have only applied the injunction to Hamburger Mary’s and allowed enforcement of the law elsewhere. A divided U.S. Supreme Court on Nov. 16 declined to take up a request from the state for a partial stay.

The decisions about the requested partial stay, however, did not resolve the underlying legal issues in the appeal of Presnell’s ruling. The state’s filing Friday was an initial brief in the broader dispute.

The law, dubbed by sponsors as the “Protection of Children Act,” would prevent venues from admitting children to adult live performances. It defines adult live performances as “any show, exhibition, or other presentation in front of a live audience, which, in whole or in part, depicts or simulates nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement or specific sexual activities, … lewd conduct, or the lewd exposure of prosthetic or imitation genitals or breasts.”

Regulators would be able to suspend or revoke licenses of restaurants, bars and other venues that violate the law. Also, it would prohibit local governments from issuing public permits for events that could expose children to the targeted behavior. In addition, people could face first-degree misdemeanor charges for “knowingly” admitting children to adult live performances.

While the law does not specifically mention drag shows, it came after the DeSantis administration cracked down on venues in South Florida and Central Florida where children attended drag shows. It also passed this spring amid a wave of bills in Florida and other Republican-led states targeting LGBTQ-related issues.

In issuing the preliminary injunction, Presnell wrote that law “is specifically designed to suppress the speech of drag queen performers” and the state “already has statutes” that protect children from seeing obscene performances.

“Defendant professes that a statewide preliminary injunction would ‘harm the public by exposing children to ‘adult live performances,’” Presnell wrote. “This concern rings hollow, however, when accompanied by the knowledge that Florida state law, presently and independently of the instant (new) statutory scheme, permits any minor to attend an R-rated film at a movie theater if accompanied by a parent or guardian. Such R-rated films routinely convey content at least as objectionable as that covered by (the new law).”

But in the brief Friday, the state’s lawyers raised a series of arguments, including emphasizing that the law would not affect the ability of venues to offer shows for adults.






rfenst Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
Florida university leaders bash plan to downgrade sociology


Tampa Bay Times
The subject has been “an integral part of higher education for nearly two centuries,” they said in a statement.
A campus walkway at the University of South Florida, where about 1,700 students take an introductory sociology course every year. State officials have proposed removing sociology as one of the options for core courses students must take as part of their studies.

Department leaders at 10 of Florida’s public universities say they “strongly object” to a plan that would remove sociology as an option for courses students must take as part of their college studies.

The plan was proposed Nov. 9 by state Education Commissioner Manny Diaz Jr. and advanced by the Board of Governors, which oversees Florida’s university system. It will take a final vote in January.

Introductory sociology courses have been “an integral part of higher education for nearly two centuries,” and thousands of Florida students take them each year, the department heads wrote in a follow-up letter to the Board of Governors.

The subject “is a field of science that seeks to understand the social causes and consequences of human behavior,” they wrote. “It seeks to identify patterns of organization and change in social life.”

A wide range of professions — including law, medicine and public health — have relied on principles of sociology, the letter said. Entrance exams for medical school and law school recommend coursework in the subject, the department leaders wrote, also noting that companies like Apple and Google have said they want recruits with backgrounds in sociology.

The letter was signed by sociology department heads from the University of Florida, Florida State University, the University of South Florida, the University of Central Florida, the University of North Florida, the University of West Florida, Florida A&M University, Florida Atlantic University, Florida International University and Florida Gulf Coast University.

All students entering the state’s colleges and universities are required to take core courses in each of five subject areas: communication, mathematics, social sciences, humanities and natural sciences. These are known as “general education” courses, which provide a foundation for further studies.

Diaz proposed striking out “Principles of Sociology” as a social science option with little explanation. He said a panel of faculty members had introduced a seventh course as a social sciences option — a history class titled Introductory Survey to 1877. By striking sociology as an option, he said, the number of available courses for social sciences would come back down to six, and half of them would satisfy a new requirement for civics education.

The change is due to a new state law, Senate Bill 266, that calls for a review of general education courses every four years. It requires that courses should “provide broad foundational knowledge” and not include “curriculum based on unproven, speculative, or exploratory content.”

It also says the courses should, “whenever applicable, provide instruction on the historical background and philosophical foundation of Western civilization and this nation’s historical documents, such as the Declaration of Independence, the United States Constitution, the Bill of Rights and subsequent amendments, and the Federalist Papers.”

Diaz did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

Despite concerns raised by students and faculty at the Board of Governors’ Nov. 9 meeting, board members voted for a new list of general education course options that excluded sociology, noting that another vote is set for January.

Annual enrollment in the introductory sociology course averages about 2,000 at the University of Central Florida, 1,700 at the University of South Florida, 1,600 at the University of Florida, 1,200 at Florida State University, 1,000 at Florida Atlantic University, and 850 at Florida International University, the department heads wrote.

While schools still would offer the course, they said, removing it as an option for a requirement could cut their resources and hurt their ability to recruit faculty who bring in research dollars. They said it would also lead to an “impoverishment of the general education curriculum overall.”

“Students have long gravitated to introductory sociology courses because they understand that they will gain a broad perspective on the social forces that influence their lives and life chances,” the letter said. “This is the intrinsic benefit that introductory sociology brings to the core of general education, and it is also what makes it an important component of the civic literacy that we have defined as a goal of higher education.”
RayR Online
#42 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,895
^ Hmmm...I wonder what they are teaching in these "sociology courses" courses these days that bothers Education Commissioner Manny Diaz Jr. and the Board of Governors. Think I see no mention of it. Any details?

Just wondering, If it because the education system is greatly controlled and taught by left-wingers with an agenda within these schools, I can understand the concern about what is being taught, which is probably about restricting freedom of speech and thought for what they call the common good.
It's funny how their agenda spills over into practical progressive politics.
JP makes some interesting points...

It's For The Greater Good, So Shut The F*ck Up!

https://youtu.be/HNEwAJidgC8?si=QtQwvDQ2f4eW3APW
rfenst Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
What to know about Donald Trump’s gag orders in D.C. and New York


WSJ
Two judges — in Donald Trump’s federal election-obstruction case in D.C. and in the New York civil fraud case against him and his business — have issued narrow gag orders limiting what the former president can publicly say about the cases. Trump has appealed both rulings, arguing that the orders infringe on his First Amendment rights while he is once again running for president.

Gag imposed: Judge Tanya S. Chutkan issued the limited gag order from her courtroom on Oct. 16.

Reason for gag: Chutkan said Trump’s public attacks on people who are “involved in the judicial process” made a gag order necessary. She wrote in her order: “To safeguard the integrity of these proceedings, it is necessary to impose certain restrictions on public statements by interested parties.”

How it limits Trump’s speech: The order prohibits the former president from disparaging prosecutors, witnesses and court personnel involved in his trial, which is scheduled for March 4 and includes four charges related to trying to block Joe Biden’s 2020 presidential election victory.

Appeals process: The federal appeals court in D.C. heard arguments about the gag order on Nov. 20 and could rule at any time on whether to uphold, narrow or overturn it. In the meantime, the appeals court paused the order.

Once the appeals court rules, the decision can be appealed to the Supreme Court.

Gag imposed: The New York gag order was issued on Oct. 3 by New York Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron. He is overseeing the trial, in which Trump and his business are accused of falsely inflating their property values. Engoron also imposed limited speech prohibitions on Trump’s attorneys later in the month.

Reason for gag: Trump’s fixation with Engoron’s law clerk and his claims that she was biased and overly influential in the case led Trump to post identifying information about her on social media. Millions of Trump followers were able to see the item, and the clerk began receiving a flood of threats. Engoron said he feared for her safety.

How it limits Trump’s speech: Trump cannot discuss any member of the judge’s staff, including the law clerk. He is free to make comments about the judge and about New York Attorney General Letitia James (D), who brought the lawsuit, and he continues to do so.

Appeals process: An appellate panel reinstated the gag order on Nov. 30, two weeks after a single appeals judge issued a pause on the order. The general legality of the orders will be debated by the appeals court at a later date. But with the lengthy trial winding down, Trump is again barred — for now — from commenting on court employees in public.
RayR Online
#44 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,895
Sue you Russ? I'm surprised they didn't try to arrest you for insurrection.
RobertHively Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,856
#45

That's a great post. Looks like you're the wrong guy to F with. Lol!

RayR Online
#46 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,895
Russ, you are clearly a threat to DUHMACRACY...AlLeGeDlY. Shame on you
rfenst Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
No Menorahs, Please
Is allowing a Hanukkah celebration really an endorsement of killing?


WSJ Editorial Board


The Christmas season is a busy time for our secular scolds. Usually they are taking offense at nativity displays. But this year they have decided to be more ecumenical by going after a proposed menorah lighting in Williamsburg, Va.

The lighting was proposed for Dec. 10 at the 2nd Sundays Art and Music Festival. But plans were cancelled. In messages to Rabbi Mendy Heber, festival organizer Shirley Vermillion said the organization decided that it couldn’t approve the lighting because it didn’t “want to make it seem we’re choosing a side—supporting the killing/bombing of thousands of men, women and children.”

When the news broke, Gov. Glenn Youngkin tweeted that the decision was “absurd and antisemitic.” Ms. Vermillion claims the festival wasn’t cancelled because it had never officially been approved. She has also told various media outlets that 2nd Sundays doesn’t feature religious events and has turned down many Christian organizations in the past.

But at one point Ms. Vermillion suggested the menorah lighting might be okay if an Islamic group were to participate at the same time, or if the lighting took place under a banner calling for a cease-fire in the Hamas-Israel conflict. So who’s really taking sides here?

The lighting of the menorah is part of Hanukkah, when Jews celebrate the Maccabees victory over Syrian-Greek rulers who demanded that they give up their Jewish identity and practices. After the Jews liberated the Temple in Jerusalem, they discovered a jug that had enough oil for one day but lasted for eight days. Today the holiday is known as the Festival of Lights.

Hanukkah has been celebrated for millennia, long before the present conflict in Gaza. To those who say that allowing a menorah lighting is to approve the killing of men, women and children, we’d say that’s a good argument for more light in the midst of such darkness.




This is a good example of a "content based" government suppression of speech rarely coupled with the Freedom of Religion claust of the First Amendment. If the city gets sued, it will lose very fast.
HockeyDad Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,136
rfenst wrote:

But at one point Ms. Vermillion suggested the menorah lighting might be okay if an Islamic group were to participate at the same time, or if the lighting took place under a banner calling for a cease-fire in the Hamas-Israel conflict. So who’s really taking sides here?


That is an interesting idea having an Islamic group participate….return to the forum without posting further.
RiverRatRuss Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 09-02-2022
Posts: 1,035
RayR wrote:
Sue you Russ? I'm surprised they didn't try to arrest you for insurrection.


Had to clean up my posts (delete) Yesterday our Finest, camped outside our house for a good 30 minutes or more, parked in the ditch beside the driveway sitting in his squad car. but the school is 2 blocks away, so he could say he was watching the kids coming out of school and it was between 3pm til ten ta 4... his end of shift is 4pm and usually he skips out around ten ta 4 for home.. We'll see what today brings us?? Herfing
ZRX1200 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,617
Marked or unmarked?

If it’s unmarked I’d call in a suspicious vehicle. If he’s city I’d call the county sheriff, if he’s county I’d call city.

The. I’d go mow the lawn in one spot so he gets some good sound
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