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A brief history of slavery
MACS Offline
#51 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,800
"The term slave has its origins in the word slav. The slavs, who inhabited a large part of Eastern Europe, were taken as slaves by the Muslims of Spain during the ninth century AD. Slavery can broadly be described as the ownership, buying and selling of human beings for the purpose of forced and unpaid labour."

Huh... white folks were slaves, too. Whataya know. Bet those slavs want some reparations!
rfenst Offline
#52 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
I don't agree with reparations, but here is some biblical history for you to think about...




The book of Exodus includes a story about reparations for slavery

White Americans aren’t the Israelites; we’re the Egyptians. Maybe we should follow their lead.


Christian Century

Christian interpreters of the Bible usually see themselves as God’s chosen people. We relate to people like Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebekah, and Jacob and Rachel. When reading a book like Exodus, we naturally think of ourselves as the Israelites rather than the Egyptians. Since childhood, most of us have been taught to read the Bible this way. It allows us to feel like we’re on the right side of history. We prefer not to identify with the bad guys.

In an essay called “Why I Stopped Talking about Racial Reconciliation and Started Talking about White Supremacy,” Korean American writer Erna Kim Hackett characterizes such interpretive practices as “Disney princess theology.” In a quote from the essay that went viral in 2020, she points out why it’s so problematic that White Christians see themselves as the princess in every story:

For the citizens of the most powerful country in the world, who enslaved both Native and Black people, to see itself as Israel and not Egypt when studying Scripture is a perfect example of Disney princess theology. And it means that as people in power, they have no lens for locating themselves rightly in Scripture or society—and it has made them blind and utterly ill-equipped to engage issues of power and injustice.

In actuality, White Americans more closely resemble the Egyptians than the Israelites. Unlike the Egyptians, however, White people have failed to pay reparations for the legacy of slavery.

If you’ve never heard that the Egyptians paid reparations to the Hebrews for the time that they spent in slavery, it’s not entirely your fault. “The Israelites,” says Exodus, “. . . had asked the Egyptians for jewelry of silver and gold, and for clothing, and the Lord had given the people favor in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they let them have what they asked. And so they plundered the Egyptians” (12:35–36). The first sentence sounds like the Egyptians are engaging in a practice remarkably similar to reparations. Coins had not yet been invented, so in lieu of currency, the Egyptians gave the greatest valuables they owned. But what about the plundering? One definition of plunder is “to take something wrongfully.” Why would God encourage seizing someone else’s property wrongfully? Are the Israelites doing something good, receiving what is owed to them for centuries of working without pay? Or are they stealing?

The original Hebrew word, translated in the New Revised Standard Version and elsewhere as plunder, appears more than 200 times in the Bible. In a handful of cases, it appears alongside other, similar words in violent contexts (see 2 Chron. 20:25). Exodus 12:35–36, by contrast, talks about the Israelites asking Egyptians for valuables and the Egyptians giving tremendous gifts. That doesn’t sound like theft or warfare. It sounds more like a wedding reception or a baby shower. The Egyptians give great gifts to make sure that the Israelites have a good start in their new lives. It sounds even more like the Egyptians realized their treatment of the Israelites was fundamentally wrong, and they tried to make reparations.

This text from Exodus is hardly the only one in the Bible rele­vant to the discussions of reparations. Duke L. Kwon and Gregory Thompson’s Reparations: A Christian Call for Repentance and Repair points to reparations as the church’s calling and responsibility. They explain that such reparations need to entail two key elements. The first is restitution, giving back what was wrongfully taken. They reference Zacchaeus, who pays back four times what he wrongfully took (Luke 19:1–10). They show how Zacchaeus’s actions entail obedience to texts like Exodus 22:1, which says that thieves need to compensate their victims four or five times over.

The second element of reparations is restoration, making the wronged person whole again. Here, Kwon and Thompson pay careful attention to the parable of the Good Samaritan, who ensures that the robbed person fully recovers and can move forward with health—even though the Samaritan did not personally cause the robbery and injury (Luke 10:25–37).

The writers of scripture don’t want us to miss this point: enslavers owe a debt.

Kwon and Thompson also look at the passage from Exodus 12. It turns out that when the word so oddly translated as “plunder” is conjugated as it is here, it almost always means “deliver,” “rescue,” or “save,” as in Ezekiel 14:14. There Ezekiel talks of saintly people like Noah saving themselves from coming famine. If Exodus is using the word the same way as Ezekiel is, then the Israelites are not robbing the Egyptians—they’re saving them. Indeed, just a few verses earlier, the Egyptians urged the Israelites to leave because they feared they would all die (12:33). The Egyptians have already faced an onslaught of plagues, and they dread more coming. The best way to understand Exodus 12:36 (and the closely related 3:22) is that the Israelites rescue the Egyptians from God’s ongoing judgment by asking for and receiving their valuables.

This gift giving does not make things perfectly even, but it does symbolize an end to hostilities. It signifies a new beginning. It demonstrates the Egyptians’ readiness to relate to the Israelites in new ways. In an act of significant sacrifice, they surrender their greatest valuables with no strings attached. They demonstrate concretely that they are no longer going to exploit the Israelites. They give the Israelites the means to move forward not in destitution, but in prosperity.

And these reparations benefit not just the oppressed but also the oppressors. In Egyptian thinking, all facets of society were supposed to operate smoothly and in concert with one another. The infanticide, slavery, and plagues of Exodus left no doubt that Egyptian society had failed to reach its own goals. The only way to become a functioning society again was to address past wrongs in hopes of avoiding divine judgment.

At their heart, reparations have always been about transforming broken societies into flourishing communities. Ta-Nehisi Coates rooted his groundbreaking essay “The Case for Reparations” (Atlantic, June 2014) in Deuteronomy 15:12–15, in which God commands that the Israelites set their Hebrew slaves free after six years of service. The text also specifies that the Israelites must outfit the freed slaves with an abundance of gifts, including food and wine for the short term and farm animals that would enable former slaves to generate long-term income. Sheep and goats served as a sort of ancient savings account, giving people assets that could be sold during a drought or other crisis.

These biblical stipulations don’t exactly call for 40 acres and a mule, but they aren’t far removed from such an idea. Indeed, George Fox, the founder of the Quaker movement, appealed directly to this Deuteronomy text in the 1600s when advocating something very similar to reparations. He urged slaveholders to set their slaves free after a period of service, and he added, “When they go, and are made free, let them not go away empty-handed, this I say will be very acceptable to the Lord, whose Servants we are.”

The promise of restitution for slavery recurs elsewhere in the Hebrew Bible as well. In Genesis 15:14, God promises Abraham that after centuries of slavery, his descendants will leave an oppressive land with great wealth. Then, amid Moses’ call, God tells him that the Israelites will go out of Egypt with gold, silver, and clothing, which will be gifts for the next genera­tion (Exod. 3:20–22). Later, just before the original Passover, God tells Moses it’s time to fulfill this earlier promise (11:2–3). Finally, as the Israelites get ready to leave Egypt, they ask the Egyptians for silver, gold, and clothing—and the Egyptians freely give it. Much later in the Bible, Psalm 105:37–38 celebrates that these gifts were given.

These repeated references to the Egyptians giving their greatest valuables amid the Israelites’ emancipation make clear that the writers of scripture don’t want us to miss this essential point: enslavers owe a debt. And, despite many protestations to the contrary, it can be paid by giving valuables that ensure the success of freed slaves and their descendants. In Exodus 3:22 it’s clear that these reparations are for the descendants of slaves, too. The Egyptians’ silver, gold, and clothing will be placed on Israelite children. It’s a time of hope in new beginnings for future generations.

Further, understanding texts in the Torah as calling for reparations for slavery, or something very close to it, is consonant with other biblical teachings. In Genesis, gift giving serves to resolve conflicts, facilitate forgiveness, and move past wrongdoings. When Abram’s and Lot’s shepherds can’t get along, Abram lets Lot have his choice of land (Gen. 13:5–12). When the Philistines and Isaac come close to violence over who possesses which wells, Isaac cedes land he could claim as his own (Gen. 26:12–33). Amid painful strife, Rachel and Leah exchange gifts and privileges to find a way forward (Gen. 30:14–18). When Esau looks ready for revenge, Jacob gives an abundance of gifts to make up for terrible wrongdoings (Gen. 32:3–21, 33:1–17).

It’s not that wrongdoers can pay bribes to make artificial peace. Rather, sacrifices of significance introduce alternate logics and ways of being in the world. They function as catalysts of reconciliation. They work sacramentally as outward and visible signs of inward and invisible changes of attitude. They demonstrate when repentance is real. It’s hard to overestimate the costs of reparations, but it’s also hard to overestimate their potential for healing.

In one of the most famous sermons in American history, preached on January 1, 1808, Absalom Jones begins by describing Israelite slavery in ways that easily connect with American slavery: “They were compelled to work in the open air, in one of the hottest climates in the world: and, probably, without a covering from the burning rays of the sun.” After talking about God’s intervention in Egypt, he reminds his listeners that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. With those words, he pivots from the past to the present, proclaiming that God is now at work in abolishing the African slave trade:

Dear land of our ancestors! thou shalt no more be stained with the blood of thy children, shed by British and American hands: the ocean shall no more afford a refuge to their bodies, from impending slavery: nor shall the shores of the British West India islands, and of the United States, any more witness the anguish of families, parted for ever by a publick sale. For this signal interposition of the God of mercies, in behalf of our brethren, it becomes us this day to offer up our united thanks.

The first time I read that sermon to a group of undergraduate students, a Black student expressed discomfort with the idea that it was already time to offer thanks. He knew that while the transatlantic slave trade and even slavery itself may have ended, he still wasn’t in the promised land. Allen Dwight Callahan makes the same point in The Talking Book: for African Americans, the period since the Emancipation Proclamation relates best not to times of thriving in a land of milk and honey but rather to times of wandering in the grueling heat of the desert, not yet free to enjoy the blessings of a good land.

A report from the Economic Policy Institute makes clear just how much the United States still resembles a barren wasteland for many African Americans: “With respect to homeownership, unemployment, and incarceration, America has failed to deliver any progress for African Americans over the last five decades.” The median household wealth of Black families is about one-tenth that of White families. Only 41 percent of Black Americans are homeowners, compared with 71 percent of White Ameri­cans. For every 100,000 Black Americans, 1,730 are incarcerated, compared with 270 of every 100,000 White Americans. It goes on. The persistent inequalities of both economics and opportunity are staggering.

In the Bible, the Israelites do not wake up in the promised land the day after leaving Egypt. For 40 long years, they eked out an existence under oppressive desert heat. What happens to them there is often overlooked—but it is relevant to our American context.

Some of the most disturbing stories in the book of Numbers involve people who try to prevent the Israelites from making it to the promised land. At least five different groups of people do all they can to block the Israelites on their journey (20:14–22, 21:1–3, 21–35, 22:1–24:25). Repeatedly, the Israelites ask in the most polite terms possible just to pass through others’ land. They promise not to take so much as a drop of water, a grain of barley, or a single grape—in fact, they say that they’ll avoid wells, fields, and vineyards altogether. They just need to make it to Canaan.

But the powers and principalities of that age do all they can to block the Israelites. They refuse passage. They deny water. They attack the Israelites instead. They take them captive. They even try to use religion—a famous holy man named Balaam—to try to curse this group of former slaves.

These people never succeed. They instead bring down God’s judgment upon themselves. Instead of creating relationships of respect and kindness with the Israelites, those who obstruct their progress end up losing their safety, homes, and lives because they’re working against the God who always wants to set the captives free. In their fear of the Israelites, they desperately cling to their land and power, and they lose everything.

The White church in America is becoming increasingly aware of how much it resembles these people in Numbers who deny passageway to the promised land. As it does, it faces a question. Will it continue to forbid entry, or will it—like the Egyptians—recognize that recompense is due?



https://www.christiancentury.org/article/critical-essay/book-exodus-includes-story-about-reparations-slavery
RayR Offline
#53 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,898
rfenst wrote:
Slavery- noun:

The activity of legally owning other people who are forced to work for or obey you; and the condition of being legally owned by someone else and forced to work for or obey them.


https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/slavery


Exactly! The regime demands you obey them and pay an arbitrary "fair share" of your labor to them because they own you citizen! If not, they'll send heavily armed agents to your HUT to haul you off and put you in a cage or kill you.

As George Carlin said, "Politicians are there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything,"
corey sellers Offline
#54 Posted:
Joined: 08-21-2011
Posts: 10,365
I just listened to that by George Carlin lord it is the truth.
RayR Offline
#55 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,898
rfenst wrote:
I don't agree with reparations, but here is some biblical history for you to think about...




[b]The book of Exodus includes a story about reparations for slavery

White Americans aren’t the Israelites; we’re the Egyptians. Maybe we should follow their lead.

https://www.christiancentury.org/article/critical-essay/book-exodus-includes-story-about-reparations-slavery


Robert , that piece sounds like Christian-Socialist hogwash.
Wikiland says "Christian socialism is a religious and political philosophy that blends Christianity and socialism, endorsing left-wing politics and socialist economics on the basis of the Bible and the teachings of Jesus."

But of course, the motto of "The Christian Century" website is:

Thoughtful
Independent
Progressive
rfenst Offline
#56 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
RayR wrote:
Robert , that piece sounds like Christian-Socialist hogwash.
Wikiland says "Christian socialism is a religious and political philosophy that blends Christianity and socialism, endorsing left-wing politics and socialist economics on the basis of the Bible and the teachings of Jesus."

But of course, the motto of "The Christian Century" website is:

Thoughtful
Independent
Progressive

I don't care that you consider it hogwash, socialism or progresssive. I am sure there are many other different similar sources that meet your liking. This is just the first one that popped up in my Google search. It is one single Christian point of view that others may want to read up on- even if they disagree with it. I have no agenda regarding the article- other than the relevent Christian translation of parts of Exodus.
Burner02 Offline
#57 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
rfenst wrote:
Not so fast...

"The store clerk who accepted a $20 bill from George Floyd shortly before Floyd died in a confrontation with police says he immediately suspected the bill was counterfeit — and he says he offered to pay for Floyd's cigarettes himself.

"I thought that George didn't really know that it was a fake bill," hristopher Martin testified Wednesday about taking the $20 bill. "So I thought I'd be doing him a favor." (emphasis added).




https://www.npr.org/sections/trial-over-killing-of-george-floyd/2021/03/31/983089623/watch-live-cashier-says-he-offered-to-pay-after-realizing-floyds-20-bill-was-fak#:~:text=The%20store%20clerk%20who%20accepted,pay%20for%20Floyd's%20cigarettes%20himself.



Not so fast.

https://nypost.com/2020/07/08/counterfeit-20-bill-now-part-of-george-floyd-murder-case/

Appears George left his counterfeit bills in the car.


RayR Offline
#58 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,898
rfenst wrote:
I don't care that you consider it hogwash, socialism or progresssive. I am sure there are many other different similar sources that meet your liking. This is just the first one that popped up in my Google search. It is one single Christian point of view that others may want to read up on- even if they disagree with it. I have no agenda regarding the article- other than the relevant Christian translation of parts of Exodus.


MEH, they are LEFT O' CENTER...

"The Christian Century is a news media source with an AllSides Media Bias Rating™ of Lean Left"
https://www.allsides.com/news-source/christian-century-media-bias

They would probably tell you that JESUS WAS A SOCIALIST and WOKE.

They used to support eugenics...but they're sorry now.

The Century, like the Smithsonian, once supported eugenics.
https://www.christiancentury.org/racist-scientism-our-past
RayR Offline
#59 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,898
Back to the SLAVERY SUBJECT.

So this black R&B singer called Akon (never heard of him) apparently wants to pursue Abe Lincoln's efforts to move all the black slave people from America and colonize them in Africa. That's kind of racist of him, ain't it? Think


Musician Akon Says Black Americans Could Move to Africa, Become Millionaires, Cripple US ‘Overnight’

By C. Douglas Golden, The Western Journal Sep. 7, 2023 6:10 pm


Quote:
R&B singer Akon may have been born in the United States, but he wants to go back to his roots — which, to him, means constructing a city in his family’s ancestral home of Senegal, which he describes as a “real-life Wakanda.”

Ordinarily, I’d just think this was some idle talk by someone not in compos mentis. After all, one of Akon’s best-known songs was a collaboration with enthusiastic marijuana endorser Snoop Dogg (“I Wanna Love You”), so maybe Akon’s been hitting the wacky tobaccky a bit too often.

However, nothing short of megadoses of LSD could possibly have produced the delusions described by the singer in his promotional push on “Akon City,” in which he promised “every single African American would be a millionaire without even thinking twice” if they relocated to Africa and that America would be paralyzed “overnight” if its estimated 41.6 million black population up and left.

According to a report in AfroTech on Friday, the proposed city in the troubled West African nation of Senegal — which Akon says can be built for the low, low investment price of $6 billion — is intended “to be a safe space for Black Americans and others facing racial injustices.”

More...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/09/musician-akon-says-black-americans-move-africa-become/
Speyside2 Offline
#60 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,397
Apples and whales Robert. I think the author of that article is idiotic. Egyptian slaveholders paid reparations to slaves because that was God's will. I do not know anyone that owns a slave, nor do I own a slave. I do not know anyone who is a slave. Ergo the basis of the article is undeniably flawed. If it was God's will that we pay reparations, we would have. I suspect this would have been done by actual slaveholders to actual slaves, as it was the slaveholders that needed to repent.

I/we do not nor ever have owned slaves. Yet I/we donate regularly to those who are oppressed and need of a helping hand up. I think I understand your point, though perhaps not. The article you presented does not make that point. Please find an article that does. I am reasonably sure that anyone here with the ability to; donates generously to those less fortunate than they are as helping the least fortunate is a basic principle of Christianity. I doubt that anyone here is miserly with their excess when they see so many in dire need. After all, we are all God's children, are we not?
rfenst Offline
#61 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
Speyside2 wrote:
Apples and whales Robert. I think the author of that article is idiotic. Egyptian slaveholders paid reparations to slaves because that was God's will. I do not know anyone that owns a slave, nor do I own a slave. I do not know anyone who is a slave. Ergo the basis of the article is undeniably flawed. If it was God's will that we pay reparations, we would have. I suspect this would have been done by actual slaveholders to actual slaves, as it was the slaveholders that needed to repent.

I/we do not nor ever have owned slaves. Yet I/we donate regularly to those who are oppressed and need of a helping hand up. I think I understand your point, though perhaps not. The article you presented does not make that point. Please find an article that does. I am reasonably sure that anyone here with the ability to; donates generously to those less fortunate than they are as helping the least fortunate is a basic principle of Christianity. I doubt that anyone here is miserly with their excess when they see so many in dire need. After all, we are all God's children, are we not?

I do not beleive my descndents or anyone else's owe reperations to descendants of U.S slaves. I just wanted to point out what Exodus says, true or not, whether one accepts it as one perspective or not. I also think God's will with the Israelites and their slave owner Egyptions were subject to God interceding in man's free will- or in other words it was a miricale, IMO.
RayR Offline
#62 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,898
The modern state and their PROGRESSIVE plans to keep the slaves in check...

The Clock is Ticking Towards Martial Law: How the IRS’s New Arsenal is the First Step Toward a Totalitarian State!

Quote:
Listen up, America! While you’ve been busy scrolling through social media or binging the latest Netflix series, something far more sinister has been happening right under your nose. The IRS—yes, the Internal Revenue Service—is stocking up on military-grade weapons. But why? They claim it’s for “administrative reasons.” But let’s cut through the bureaucratic jargon and get to the heart of the matter.
The Alarming Arsenal

As of 2023, the IRS has amassed a staggering collection of 4,487 firearms and over 5 million rounds of ammunition. Let that sink in. This isn’t your neighborhood police force; this is a tax collection agency. What’s even more unsettling? They’ve been at this for at least a decade. And it’s not just handguns we’re talking about. We’re talking .40-caliber submachine guns, armored vehicles, and flash-bang grenades loaded with tear gas.

The recently passed Schumer-Manchin tax bill, known as the Inflation Reduction Act, is pumping billions into the IRS. The Wall Street Journal aptly termed this transformation as the IRS going into “beast mode.” But what exactly does that mean? Are they planning to audit us to death?

Representatives Matt Gaetz and Jeff Duncan tried to introduce the “Disarm the IRS Act,” aimed at stopping the IRS from buying ammunition. But guess what? The bill was dead on arrival. Why? Because the powers that be in Washington, from both sides of the aisle, are perfectly fine with a militarized federal government. Their loyalty doesn’t lie with the American people; it lies with the military-industrial-biosecurity complex.

More...

https://swp78.blogspot.com/2023/09/the-clock-is-ticking-towards-martial.html

burning_sticks Offline
#63 Posted:
Joined: 08-17-2020
Posts: 152
Brewha wrote:
That is a long string of historical facts that on their face seem correct. In fact, I would agree that fact stacking aside, there is nothing to disagree with.

But the conclusion that “black victimhood is for profit” is not demonstrated in those facts.

It does however sell the idea that whites are the real victim in the US, and that we are not a deeply racist nation.
Which is something only a white boy would try it sell you…..


You need to go talk to Tim Scott
RayR Offline
#64 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,898
Brewha is just trying to keep the revolution alive which requires ramping up class and racial warfare. It's like what white boy comrade Joey B. said over and over again, “White supremacy … is the single most dangerous terrorist threat in our homeland,” You see, the theory is if you want to advance the revolution, you got to repeat the same slogans over and over again until the proletariat actually believe it.

Remember that Marx and Engels once had faith that Lincoln and the radical Yankee Republicans would ignite the workers revolution in America. That was until they realized that Lincoln was not a reliable comrade for the cause and ridiculed him in private letters to each other as just a buffoonish bourgeois politician who stumbled his way into victory in spite of himself.
Nonetheless they still held out a glimmer of hope that the victorious North and Andrew Johnson would carry the banner of "Workers of the Worls Unite!", but to no avail.
The torch would then be passed to the Progressive movement.
Brewha Online
#65 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,192
burning_sticks wrote:
You need to go talk to Tim Scott

Is he on the take too?
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