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Ideology of the Leaf
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jdrabinski Offline
#1 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 6:12 AM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Political types...

There has been some serious tense talk here in the past month, many red faces and pissed off words (myself included). There has also been a sense that the leaf binds us, despite our differences. So, I propose we put our money where our mouths are. A cigar exchange along ideological lines...

Email me with your snail mail address, tell me your general ideological bent (liberal or conservative...it doesn't have to be pure, just what camp you tend to be in), and I'll set up a chain where liberals send to conservatives and conservatives send to liberals. Then we can see how well the leaf binds us together. We can also do our own informal poll of who has the best, most generous heart (I am guessing liberals, but prove me wrong!) by posting what is received right here.

Problem is, of course, we need an even number of liberals and conservatives, so we might have to do a first-come, first-served thing for conservatives...there seem to be more of y'all than we liberals.

My email: [email protected]

I am thinking a five cigar max?

Let me know if you're in.

John
jreddoch Offline
#2 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 1:26 PM EST
Joined: 12-30-2000
Posts: 1,309
Sounds like fun, I'll bite. I'm an independent with both conservative and liberal views, so you can put me in either camp.
xrundog Offline
#3 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 1:46 PM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
I'm an independant as well. I suspect I have liberal tendancies though. I like to cut people slack. But not regarding UN resolutions. Count me in. 5 is a good number.
tarheel4lyf Offline
#4 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 2:11 PM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
I'm neither conservative or liberal. I tend to form my own point of view, and stick to it. I don't have much to offer in the way of sticks, but I'll scrounge up a few.
rck_1 Offline
#5 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 2:53 PM EST
Joined: 01-28-2003
Posts: 656
liberal all the way!!!!!!!!! I`ll bet ya cant top my 5 packer!!!!!!!!!!
rck_1 Offline
#6 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 2:57 PM EST
Joined: 01-28-2003
Posts: 656
e-mail sent!
jreddoch Offline
#7 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 3:04 PM EST
Joined: 12-30-2000
Posts: 1,309
Come on folks, this'll be fun. Let's get this rollin'.
rck_1 Offline
#8 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 3:09 PM EST
Joined: 01-28-2003
Posts: 656
They are all scared conservatives!!!! LOL
DrMaddVibe Offline
#9 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 3:18 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
Hardly! I don't like freeloading liberals!

If you want to trade take it over there
rck_1 Offline
#10 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 3:25 PM EST
Joined: 01-28-2003
Posts: 656
Dr, did you read the whole thread? whose freeloading?
Your either in or your out! And I didnt start this thread to begin with!!!! :o)
DrMaddVibe Offline
#11 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 3:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
With this bone head...Have fun!
usahog Offline
#12 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 3:29 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Doc, Over there? You mean on the Cigars & Related forum or the Trades forum?

Yea at least Freeload on the Right Forum Board John!!!
LMAO!!!!!

Hog
Danny Offline
#13 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 3:35 PM EST
Joined: 06-21-2002
Posts: 613
The Dr. feels he needs to have no regard for opposing points of view, yet fails to understand how anybody could not have regard for his own. He understands exactly what he wants to understand. He lives in a box of own device. He is quite happy this way though. He thinks liberal is something you step in and must scrape off your shoe. Do not try to reason with him, it is a waste of bandwidth. I'm in. I am liberal in philosophy, yet conservative in practice. Where does that place me? I have a fatal flaw of always having to see both sides, without really being able to make up my mind. I generally side with what seems to champion human kindness.
rck_1 Offline
#14 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 3:39 PM EST
Joined: 01-28-2003
Posts: 656
OOOOOhhhh!!! dems fight`n words Dr!!!!!
I am a little confused though! I get that way sometimes. Some think this is a great idea and had no problem with it being on the Misc. board while Dr is obviously totally opposed to the idea!!! So this is my last post to this thread reply if you may but I wont be reading it. Waiting for JD to repost on Trades.
jreddoch Offline
#15 Posted: Sat, Feb 22 2003, 4:13 PM EST
Joined: 12-30-2000
Posts: 1,309
I can say from experience that the Dr. is a very generous guy and might put all of us to the left of him to shame. Come on, DMV. It won't be the same if there are no conservatives in on this deal.
Danny Offline
#16 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 2:40 AM EST
Joined: 06-21-2002
Posts: 613
no one questioned his generosity. just his manners. and it's always offensive to be told to "go drop dead", even if it's paraphrased
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#17 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 2:58 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
jdrabinski

you offered a "let's forget the politics and exchange cigars with someone with a different political viewpoint" as a gesture to bring people together, and you got **** on.

DrMaddVibe not only missed the point, but accused you of being a bone headed, free loading liberal who thinks this should be on the trade board. lost cause.

usahog, following the party line also accused you of freeloading. lost cause.

se hablo mucho, pero no dice nada.
jdrabinski Offline
#18 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 5:30 AM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Rick,

I know. Damn. Not the response, or lack thereof, that I expected. I guess I was a little naive? There is still time...we'll see. I remain hopeful.

Alas, even without conservative participation, there still may be a pass of generosity...just between liberals and moderates/independents (those are the only ones who are in thus far). You want in, Rick? Email me [email protected], if you are interested.

We'll give this another couple of days and see what happens.

John
jdrabinski Offline
#19 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 5:32 AM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
p.s.: I still don't get the 'freeloading' crack. Was the initial post unclear? I promise you this: he who gets my 5pack will not think I am freeloading, that's for sure.

John
usahog Offline
#20 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 8:00 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
(Doc, Over there? You mean on the Cigars & Related forum or the Trades forum?

Yea at least Freeload on the Right Forum Board John!!!
LMAO!!!!! )

Was a PUN Shot!!!!!

along time back... it was Imparative to some here that Posts be posted on there Correct Boards... and it would get under there skin So reflecting back to this past history of this forum I tossed that in as a PUN

its the defensive Nature of many here to take Offense to this and Twist it as many things on here have been Twisted....
I have made Statements to the words of "Simpletons"
"Narrow Mindedness" and "Tunnel Visions" of some folks on this forum... I will not retract those Statements... because I view some in this way... the one's who scream and point fingers and accuse myself as being "one sided" and no other way... are the very same who close themselves off to what they are stating me as being....Wake the Fugg Up folks and take a long look at yourself... I throw out facts to you and aall you can do is pick a few words from those facts and try and veer it off track of what it is... that is infact more Dangerious then the Facts at hand....

I never said Yea or Nea to a trade or swap with anyone here... I look at this tread "the way it was Posted" as a I am better then you type Post... lets see what you got and I'll raise you two... I don't trade like that... I don't care what someone has to be better then them... or try and outdo my neighbor... I personally have a walk-in... stocked with what I will estimate $3000.00 give or take of Premo's and Dog Rockets that I have purchased over the years... I have this because of my "Love for the Leaf" as a Hobby and It is Open to anyone who comes to visit... and Or I have even traded with many here not to see who can out do the other... just for the simple trade and adventure into the Cigar world... and friendship...

I find this thread as I said... a way to see who can do better then the Other... so I am sorry I will not perticipate.... missing out on something? Maybe but OoopSOoooooo... that will be my loss....

I'll regain in a box pass or something later down the road.... who knows maybe Illinois will make the playoffs and match up with U Memphis then no holds Barred... and you can check my records on Illinois Games and my Payoffs to see if my word is good!!!!!
but it's expensive thats for damn sure!!!!!!!!

Hog
jreddoch Offline
#21 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 8:35 AM EST
Joined: 12-30-2000
Posts: 1,309
You guys all seem to be taking this too seriously. It's just a way to make some trades and get to know some of the people you interact with on the boards a little better. I read the liberals vs. conservatives part as mostly tongue in cheek. This isn't some existential conundrum. Personally, I never let something as trivial as religion or politics get in the way of my relations with others. The guy I work with is to the right of Genghis Khan and we argue constantly, but I like him and consider him a friend. Listening to him helps me see things from another perspective, even if I ultimately reject it. Participate or don't participate. I still say this could be a very interesting process. Just my 2 cents.
jdrabinski Offline
#22 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 8:36 AM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
usahog,

I just don't get this. Who cares if it sounded like 'who can out do who'? I meant it as a gesture of goodwill and fun. A way of affirming that we aren't all enemies. Maybe I am wrong about that.

It was meant in the spirit of generosity. I think, in this case, you have shown your true colors. Too bad. I wanted to think Rick was being pessimistic. But it seems he may have been right. 'Seems' is the operative word. I am open to rebuttle on this.

John
jdrabinski Offline
#23 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 8:44 AM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
Yes, jreddoch, you are right...I meant it as a tongue in cheek, laughing at the whole debate thing for a minute sort of thing. Not meant at all to be taken so seriously. Kind of like when I organize the Marxist Student Union vs. College Republicans paintball war at my school. Very fun, very tongue in cheek.

I have one of those 'right of Genghis Khan' friends too (I will borrow that phrase to tease him...thanks...I am tired of being called Stalin Jr. with no comeback!). We play pool, drink, and try to buy each other cigars that will over power the other. Joya de Nicaragua and Camacho smoke fills the air. Sometimes we try to 'out generous' the other when we golf...and it is good fun and friendship. We end up smoking great cigars and affirming our friendship despite the religious and political differences. That's what I had in mind.

John
Charlie Offline
#24 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 9:17 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
This seems to be a doomed project...I am conservative, and not sure what is going to happen with this thread!

Jim (jreddoch) I would say that you are more conservative than liberal, and this hugging the middle of the road is not becoming!

As Kurt Russel said in the last line of The Thing, "Let's just wait and see what happens"!

Charlie
jreddoch Offline
#25 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 9:19 AM EST
Joined: 12-30-2000
Posts: 1,309
That's what I thought you had in mind. I don't worry that exchanging cigars with someone of a different ideology would undermine my whole cognitive schema (a phrase I remember from college psych.). Why would anyone else?
jreddoch Offline
#26 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 9:24 AM EST
Joined: 12-30-2000
Posts: 1,309
Charlie, like Danny. I am conservative in practice, but try to keep an open mind. Also like him, I tend to see both sides of issues and thus have a hard time coming to a firm ideological position.

You think that's unbecoming? You should see me in one of my Hawaiian shirts!
jreddoch Offline
#27 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 9:25 AM EST
Joined: 12-30-2000
Posts: 1,309
Charlie! That exclamation point (!) was for you!
cwilhelmi Offline
#28 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 9:55 AM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Too funny!!

John - I'm in, email sent...
Charlie Offline
#29 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 11:51 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Jim, I feel that I am open minded but tend to side with the conservatives on most issues, I am not against abortion! I am against the religious right of the Republican party and feel they need to drop their doctrines!

Oh, I will play in this "exchange"!

Charlie
cwilhelmi Offline
#30 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 11:53 AM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
I guess we're more similar politically than I thought Charlie, glad to hear your in the pool/exchange...
usahog Offline
#31 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 11:54 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Who Cares how it sounded? I Care....

I don't have to show my worth to someone who cannot even answer questions but always goes on Offinsive when facts are thrown on there laps...

its like having sex with a snobby _-_-h... when its over she informs you how you didn't measure up in her eye's.... I'll save my Cigars for those who will enjoy them Not Judge them by Charictor as how I viewed your Opener to the exchange....
I shouldn't have to repeat myself... lets see how your ball team does then we'll talk...
as far as going Riding sometime... I said Sure and have no problem with that... btw does Loud Pipes hurt your Ears??

Hog
Tobasco Offline
#32 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 2:51 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

I've been looking at this, and thinking it over.

John, you know that we are friends. To be very honest with you, I probably wouldnt be, had I known some of your positions in politics beforehand.

Its too late now, I like you, and our personal interactions away from this forum have let me know, that even though we are on opposite sides very much politically, that we can be friends, and in other ways we are very alike.

I would bet that others that have seen us debate each other, couldnt tell that we are friends. But we are.

That has taught me a lesson about people. Good productive Americans will have very different views, some extreme, like I think yours are. But, I guess you think mine are extreme too, just in the opposite direction.

I see Charlie is going for it. He is a friend too! I will participate in this also. Cant let ol' Charlie go it alone.

John, you know my positions on politics & my e-mail addy. Count me in!

Mag
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#33 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 3:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
usahog

its like having sex with a snobby _-_-h... when its over she informs you how you didn't measure up in her eye's.

perhaps it's your performance, i don't remember ever hearing that.
usahog Offline
#34 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 4:46 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Rick, that was a figure of Speech...

Hog
jjohnson28 Offline
#35 Posted: Mon, Feb 24 2003, 2:50 PM EST
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Pass
titlerep1 Offline
#36 Posted: Mon, Feb 24 2003, 5:27 PM EST
Joined: 12-30-2002
Posts: 114
jj sorry i couldn't make it Saturday but thanks for the invite i promise i will make the next one.

Charles
jdrabinski Offline
#37 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 6:16 AM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
I give. You win. I withdraw the propoal.

The animosity in this thread has soured me on the idea. I thought it would be fun and a good way to affirm a kind of friendship through mutual love of cigars and generosity. It turned into a bunch of bull****, causing me to 'defend' the idea (for some reason), and, frankly, I just don't want to do it. Besides, Mag was the only fully conservative participant, so that pretty much put the kibosh on the plan.

Maybe some other time.

John
usahog Offline
#38 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 7:11 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Who wins John??

I see this as you addressing everyone here as a friendly trade... You got people involved to hold an event... and You have many peoples Interests.. just not EVERYONE's does that mean you back out?
I damn sure wouldn't... to me if it was setting up something like this... no matter who attended it would still be a function... and sorry to those who stepped out of it.. if it turns out to be a great Idea....
Not a Flop before it started...

do not try and shift the Blame onto the consevitive or whatever you are trying's Side...
this is a Forum of Brothers/Sisters of the Leaf...this is a political Ploy as I seen it from the beggining...

but don't try to dust your shoes off on my back because you don't want to follow through with an Idea...
that my Friend is BULLSH!T!!

Hog
jdrabinski Offline
#39 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 1:00 PM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
dust, dust, dust, dust...
jjohnson28 Offline
#40 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 2:31 PM EST
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Oh Christ,now he'll be whinning about this for months, just like Rick these days in every other thread.

I can hear it now,mommmmmy those mean boys and girls over at cigarbid won't play with me.Now Johnny those are those mean old rebulican and independent boys and girls,stay here with the liberals and we'll let you whine and cry all you want. :0)

Truth is to pull something like this off you need to have some kind of a reputation around here and bashing on Hog aint gonna get it for ya either.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#41 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 2:32 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
Preachin' to the choir J!
usahog Offline
#42 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 2:43 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
LMAO@ JJ.... you tell em Bro...

But Honestly I think I'm growing on John... must be nice to go to sleep dreaming Of ME and even waking up to the first thoughts of Hog in the Morning... and I ain't talkin Bacon either LMAO!!!!!!!

I go to bed with my Wife in my arms and I wake up to her fixin me Bacon & Eggs and that Fresh Cup of Folgers Bean Ground Coffee!!!!

Next Time try a Liberal Box Pass John, and send the Proceeds to the Tree Huggers Playing "Human Shields" in Iraq... no need to send Matchs though, there about to get a lite of there Own... and it wont be a Bud Light either!!!!! I Love You Man!!!!!!!

Hog
DrMaddVibe Offline
#43 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 3:00 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,469
LMMFAO!
jdrabinski Offline
#44 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 4:14 PM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
"Oh Christ,now he'll be whinning about this for months..."

Huh?

I thought it would be fun, it turned into some freakin' drama, so I said 'forget it.' What doesn't compute in that?

John
usahog Offline
#45 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 4:25 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
(What doesn't compute in that)

The Fact that you Lined something up with many members here on the Club/Forums to get involved, and instead of working on the one's who are interested in this you want to toss a blaming shot to not have it Go... on a few who was not Interested in this Cigar Exchange.
Thus it Still looks to me, as I read in the Original posting of this, a chance to toss stones rather than have an adventureous (sp) Cigar Event...
and It Looks Like I was Right in my thinking!!!!
"Doesn't Compute"

Now lets see how them two ball teams favor up for a playoff!!!!!

Hog
tarheel4lyf Offline
#46 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 4:38 PM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
too bad, guys....


it was a nice gesture, I thought...
jdrabinski Offline
#47 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 4:41 PM EST
Joined: 08-16-2002
Posts: 794
I think the truth here is that you and others will think I am an **** and a 'whiner' no matter what I do or say. So much for 'brotherhood of the leaf.' That is neither brotherhood nor fun, frankly.

It was an exchange among ideological opposites that I proposed, only one conservative bit, it turned into a bull**** drama about 'contests' and the like (why, I still don't understand). I said 'forget about it.' The whole thing was such a minor proposal, I can't understand this continuing drama of John-as-**** thing you and jjohnson etc. persist with. My only conclusion is you dislike me period. Fine.

You know, if you aren't interested, mind your own **** business.

I am really coming to hate this place, to be honest.

John
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#48 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 4:47 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
jjohnson28

am i going to be your permanent example of negativity?

if i am, i want to be on the books with full benefits including medical.
tarheel4lyf Offline
#49 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 4:53 PM EST
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
ô¿ô
usahog Offline
#50 Posted: Tue, Feb 25 2003, 5:11 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
John, I do Not Hate you... this is a Forum.. which used to be the Political Forum until for what reason I don't know why CB and Gonz changed the name... but in any case it is now a General Forum also known as a BS forum... I have read your reviews on many of the posts on here... I do not dwell on your Views and like others views.. I don't have to agree with them... but I still welcome them and post my views to theres.... as for Instance... Cwil, I enjoy Debating with him also.. he has way different views as I do... and we cannot on allot of things agree... but still in all seriousness I like the guy's points... So it will not be a problem for me to Mind my Own Business if that is what you want... But if you would like to review this forum type in Search (usahog) and then see how many times you have jumped into conversational posts to try and Slam me... even in the Career (Job) & Non-Cigar Hobby you made statement to :annoying usahog and friends.. you haven't become annoying to me as yet.. but your getting close to CJ on the A$$H0le part...
I have tried to make many attempts at having a civil confronting debate on different Issues, But your Pause seems to be much more than the differences in Agreements.....

on a Side Note: I see you standing on a Flat Rock.. wanting everyone else to climb onto this Rock with you and piss on the others who do not...(this is Simple Liberal Logic)
Again I will Say I am sorry that you are so up in arms about things... but let me ask you one thing.. have you seen a Doctor about this built up Rage???


Enjoy your Evening!!!
Hog
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