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Seething Soldiers
kaikai1102 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 12-05-2002
Posts: 153
FALLUJAH, Iraq (July 16) -- The sergeant at the 2nd Battle Combat Team Headquarters pulled me aside in the corridor. "I've got my own 'Most Wanted' list," he told me.

He was referring to the deck of cards the U.S. government published, featuring Saddam Hussein, his sons and other wanted members of the former Iraqi regime.

"The aces in my deck are Paul Bremer, Donald Rumsfeld, George Bush and Paul Wolfowitz," he said.

He was referring to the four men who are running U.S. policy here in Iraq -- the four men who are ultimately responsible for the fate of U.S. troops here.

Those four are not popular at 2nd BCT these days. It is home to 4,000 troops from the 2nd Brigade of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division.

The soldiers were deployed to Kuwait last September. They were among the first troops in Baghdad during the war. And now they've been in the region longer than other troops: 10 months and counting.

They were told they'd be going home in May. Then in early July. Then late July. Then last week they heard that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld had mentioned them on Capitol Hill.

"The 2nd Brigade is — the plan is that they would return in August, having been there something like 10 months," said Rumsfeld.

He added: "The services and the Joint Staff have been working with Central Command to develop a rotation plan so that we can, in fact, see that we treat these terrific young men and young women in a way that's respectful of their lives and their circumstances."

Solid words from a solid source. Soldiers called their families. Commanding officers began preparations.

‘I Don’t Care Anymore’

Now comes word from the Pentagon: Not so fast.

The U.S. military command in Iraq said Tuesday it plans to complete the withdrawal of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division by September, but officials said they could make no hard promises because of the unsettled state of security in Baghdad and elsewhere in Iraq.

"If Donald Rumsfeld were sitting here in front of us, what would you say to him?" I asked a group of soldiers who gathered around a table, eager to talk to a visiting reporter.

"If he was here," said Pfc. Jason Punyahotra, "I would ask him why we're still here, why we've been told so many times and it's changed."

In the back of the group, Spc. Clinton Deitz put up his hand. "If Donald Rumsfeld was here," he said, "I'd ask him for his resignation."

Those are strong words from troops used to following orders. They say they will continue to do their job, but they no longer seem to have their hearts in the mission.

"I used to want to help these people," said Pfc. Eric Rattler, "but now I don't really care about them anymore. I've seen so much, you know, little kids throwing rocks at you. Once you pacify an area, it seems like the area you just came from turns bad again. I'd like this country to be all right, but I don't care anymore."

Wondering Why

What they care about is their families. Sgt. Terry Gilmore had to call his wife, Stacey, this week to her that he wouldn't be home in a few weeks to see her and their two little children.

"When I told her, she started crying," Gilmore said, his eyes moistening. "I mean, I almost started crying. I felt like my heart was broken. We couldn't figure out why they do it. Why they can keep us over here right after they told us we were coming home."

Sgt. Felipe Vega, who oversees the platoon, sat alone in the platoon quarters, writing a letter. A photo of his wife, Rhonda, was taped to the wall above him.

It is Vega's job to maintain morale. That's not easy, he told me, when the Army keeps changing the orders.

"They turn around and slap you in the face," he said.

When asked if that's the way it feels, he said, "Yeah, kicked in the guts, slapped in the face."

Losing Faith

The 2nd Brigade originally came to Kuwait for six months of exercises. Then they stayed to fight the war. Like the others, Vega thought that would be the end of it.

"What was told to us in Kuwait," he said, "was the fastest way to go home was through Baghdad. And that's what we did."

But more than three months later they are still here.

"Well it pretty much makes me lose faith in the Army," said Pfc. Jayson Punyhotra, one of the soldiers grouped around the table. "I mean, I don't really believe anything they tell me. If they told me we were leaving next week, I wouldn't believe them."

Fighting words from men who are eager to put down their weapons.  

I just wanted to know what everyones take is on this? Time is definitely taking it's toll on our men and women in uniform. I have a few buddies that are in the Marines and Navy who left back in March and have come home in the past few weeks. What about these soldiers?
kccody Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 03-19-2007
Posts: 610
First off, I'm curious where you got this from.
Second, based on my nineteen years of service to this country I will say that there are always a small handful of whiners and complainers in any group. If this came from a competent media source I am curious if they bothered to interview any one else of if they intentionally choose a group of thumb sucking cry babies.
Suck it up, I say, our fathers and grand fathers fought in wars for years before they came home. I personally have been deployed for longer lengths of time than they have been in Iraq. It's part of the job and if they don't like it why did they join. I would say that the feeling expressed here are a overwhelming minority. Most of our troupes over there are fully behind what they are doing and they will stay there and do it for as long as our Commander and Chief tells them to.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,610
This is from ABC News. They stuffed a Canadian reporter in a bull ring with these guys to illicit a response.

Now, it seems that these troops don't know the UCMJ but they will! Time to bring back an old wartime motto..."Loose lips, sink ships"
penzt8 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-05-2000
Posts: 1,771
While I don't disagree with the sentiment that some of these warriors may share about the current situation it is one of those things that is better kept to oneself. Anyone who has ever served has questioned the leadership and the policies that are laid in front of them. The hard thing for a lot of these guys is not knowing what's going on.

As a warrior it's hard to sit around and wait. These guys aren't trained to be peace keepers and policemen, they're trained to be warriors and killers. If they were still fighting and advancing on a large scale, I don't think you'd hear any complaining. But when you accomplish your objective (take Baghdad) it's hard to sit around afterwards and basically do nothing.

It's all about keeping morale high and truthfully, nothing kills morale faster than being lied to, being kept in the dark, and sitting around waiting.
Fatshotbud Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 03-31-2003
Posts: 782
I think ABC News should be "slapped" for running a story like this one. Good reporting (which I think is fast becoming non-existent) should not be subjective and that's the way I read this reporters story - as a bias, one sided piece of crap reporting!
Hey, I feel for all our service people and would like to see them all back home. But, if I was these soldiers CO, they would be pulling some extra **** details to help them get over their problem of forgetting who they are and that they pledged an oath to duty. Ditto on Madd and kcody.

(hackles up)BUD
madal Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 11-14-2002
Posts: 141
Agree with that fatshotbud, ABC should be slapped not only for the interview but airing it and putting those soldiers in situation of saying things they will regret.
donutboy2000 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
Will the military discipline these soldiers?
mrsanmrfox Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 01-10-2003
Posts: 133
As far as the soldiers getting reprimanded, probably not. Although I will say they will not be treated the same after this from their fellow soldiers and all the command in charge of them. I agree with what everyone else is saying. 1st I'm sadned to hear that they will be over there longer than expected but thats war and what they signed up to do. If they expected something different than their recruiter lied to them and they should get their money back!!!!. Seriously, we are at war and when ever washington says come back then you come back. I've noticed a few members of this board are service men and woman and have seen them come and go several times. It's what they raised their hands for. and yes there will always be those winers that are like the people on cops. Its always the ones you dont want on camera that will always get on camera. That is only my 2 cents. And if anyone is wondering why I think I can give my 2 cents, well I believe I can because I served and feel that I can. Not just because I served but my goverment has said I can. Thank you for listening. Sorry for the long message.
Spiny Norman Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 09-04-2002
Posts: 899
Well I gotta agree with you gentlemen. Soldiiers getting jerked around by decisions in Washington is nothing new. You can't tell me that in a unit that size, any reported worth his credentials couldn't find a differant opinion?
cooksta2 Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2002
Posts: 509
when I was deployed in the first gulf war I knew that I volunteered and didn't cry my way to a cameraman. These guys know their job and yes we all want to go home, but as mentioned there is always a small group of whiners and a common saying a bitching soldier is a happy soldier it when they get quiet you should worry. The best advice I have followed is shut up and work. Pissing and moaning only lowers morale when it is passed around on the front page of a newspaper. Also, it wouldn;t surprise me if the reporter is from a country that has sent one of the fewest amount of soldiers.18th airborne corps 82nd all the way hooah
ajeroth Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 07-17-2003
Posts: 1,000
I've heard all this before. I was in Kuwait for Iraqi Freedom. Though I was only there for the duration of the war,6 weeks, I spent it with the Army. Which for an Air Force guy like me is a different experiance. I won't go into all the differences between branches right now. It would take to much time. Lets just say the Army gets treated a little rough. I give them all respect for the job they do though. And quite honestly they get paid quite well for there time. There are bad apples in every service. And people that just want to get back to there wives and kids. I know I did. So they might have expressed some angry statements when they shouldn't have. I think they earned the right to. And I think the reporters took it and ran with there own spin on things. All in all I think 99% of service members truely believe we're doing the right thing by being there. Sorry I'll get off my soapbox now. By the way while in Kuwait waiting to jump into Iraq,I had the pleasure or working for a commander who was a cigar smoker. Every day at 16:00 (Retreat time)he would go smoke his Cohiba. Scud alerts and all he would stand there with a certain confidence, unshaken by what was going on in the world and enjoy a talk with whoever was standing there. Since then I have taken up cigars with a passion. They remind me everytime I light up of where I was in the world when I learned about good cigars and good company.

SrA Allen Sampsell
United States Air Forces Europe
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