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usahog Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Last Bid to try and slander Arnold!!!!

The Reason I posted this long artical here is because you have to register to read it...so I saved anyone interested the trouble of having to Register...Unless you want to anyways the link is below....Hog

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/recall/la-me-women2oct02,1,2313555.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Women Say Schwarzenegger Groped, Humiliated Them
The acts allegedly took place over three decades. A campaign aide denies the accusations.

By Gary Cohn, Carla Hall and Robert W. Welkos, Times Staff Writers


Six women who came into contact with Arnold Schwarzenegger on movie sets, in studio offices and in other settings over the last three decades say he touched them in a sexual manner without their consent.

In interviews with The Times, three of the women described their surprise and discomfort when Schwarzenegger grabbed their breasts. A fourth said he reached under her skirt and grabbed her buttocks.

A fifth woman said Schwarzenegger groped her and tried to remove her bathing suit in a hotel elevator. A sixth said Schwarzenegger pulled her onto his lap and asked whether a certain sexual act had ever been performed on her.

According to the women's accounts, one of the incidents occurred in the 1970s, two in the 1980s, two in the 1990s and one in 2000.

"Did he rape me? No," said one woman, who described a 1980 encounter in which she said Schwarzenegger grabbed her breast. "Did he humiliate me? You bet he did."

Four of the six women told their stories on condition that they not be named. Three work in Hollywood and said they were worried that, if they were identified, their careers would be in jeopardy for speaking out against Schwarzenegger, the onetime bodybuilding champion and box-office star who is now the front-runner in the Oct. 7 gubernatorial recall election.

The other unnamed woman said she feared public ridicule and possible damage to her husband's business.

In the four cases in which the women would not let their names be published, friends or relatives told The Times that the women had told them about the incidents long before Schwarzenegger's run for governor.

None of the six women who gave their accounts to The Times filed any legal action against him.

Schwarzenegger's campaign spokesman, Sean Walsh, said the candidate has not engaged in improper conduct toward women either on the set or off. He said such allegations are part of an escalating political attack on Schwarzenegger as the recall election draws near.

"We believe Democrats and others are using this to try to hurt Arnold Schwarzenegger's campaign," Walsh said. "We believe that this is coming so close before the election, something that discourages good, hard-working, decent people from running for office."

He said Schwarzenegger himself would have no comment.

None of the women approached The Times on her own, and none was identified by Schwarzenegger's rivals in the recall race.

All were interviewed by the newspaper in the course of a seven-week examination of whether Schwarzenegger had harassed women on or off the movie set.

Schwarzenegger's attitudes about women have been an issue on the campaign trail, where critics have accused him of being misogynistic, based on past statements he has made to various publications. In response, Schwarzenegger has said he respects women and that many of his comments were said in jest or simply meant to be provocative.

Schwarzenegger's conduct toward women also has been widely discussed in Hollywood over the years, no more so than after a March 2001 article in Premiere magazine called "Arnold the Barbarian." After the article appeared, a number of Schwarzenegger's colleagues wrote to the magazine saying that the story was inaccurate and that Schwarzenegger treated women with respect and kindness.

The earliest incident of the six described to The Times was said to have occurred in 1975 at Gold's Gym near Venice Beach. E. Laine Stockton, then newly married to professional bodybuilder Robby Robinson, said she had come to the gym to watch her husband work out.

Stockton was 19 at the time. She said she was wearing slacks, tennis shoes and a loose-fitting T-shirt. She said she was not wearing a bra.

As she sat on an exercise bench, Stockton said, Schwarzenegger walked up behind her, reached his left hand under her T-shirt and touched her bare left breast.

"The gym is full of bodybuilders and Arnold comes and he gropes my breast — actually touches my breast with his left hand," she said.

She said Schwarzenegger then walked away without comment.

Stockton said she does not rule out the possibility that Schwarzenegger "may have meant it in playfulness." But she did not take it that way.

"I was just shocked, shocked to the point where I almost didn't know how to react, because it was so out of the blue and so unexpected," she said. "It just completely caught me off guard, and when I finally came to my senses, I immediately went over to Robby and I said, 'Look, Arnold just groped my breast.' "

Robinson, a former Mr. America, Mr. World and Mr. Universe, said that at the time of the incident, he had been across the gym getting a dumbbell.

"I ran up and tried to comfort her," said Robinson, who has since had a falling out with Schwarzenegger. (An African American known as the "Black Prince" during his years on the professional bodybuilding circuit, Robinson has accused Schwarzenegger of racism — a charge that Schwarzenegger's campaign denies.)

Robinson said he was upset by what Schwarzenegger had done to his wife, but did not confront him. "What he did was uncalled for, but I couldn't say nothing," Robinson said, explaining that he feared he'd be ostracized by the bodybuilding world.

He said he told his wife to stay out of Gold's Gym from then on.

Robinson and Stockton are now divorced. They were interviewed separately by The Times.

The next incident described to The Times was said to have occurred in 1980. A former pro beach volleyball player said Schwarzenegger touched her breast on a Santa Monica street.

The woman remembered walking down 19th Street, just off Wilshire Boulevard, when Schwarzenegger spotted her and got out of his car, the motor still running.

"Come here," she recalled Schwarzenegger saying, as he motioned with his finger to the woman, then 22.

The two knew each other. She worked as a waitress at Fromin's deli, she said, a place Schwarzenegger frequented. One day, she recalled, Schwarzenegger asked her when she was going on break. "We could have a lot of fun in half an hour," she remembered him saying. She said she was both a little scared and a little flattered. "I can't say I wasn't flattered. Arnold invited me to his apartment." She said she declined his invitation.

Schwarzenegger renewed his invitation, she said, when he spotted her playing in a women's volleyball tournament at Venice Beach. "After the game, he came up to me and said, 'Now you will come to my apartment.' He didn't want to hear no." The woman said she told him, "It's not going to happen."

This time, she said, as she walked along 19th Street, Schwarzenegger conveyed a sense of urgency: "Come close, it's very important." As she drew nearer to hear what he had to say, she recounted, Schwarzenegger "grabbed and squeezed" her left breast.

"If I was a man," she said she told him, "I would bust your jaw."

As tears welled in her eyes, she said, Schwarzenegger laughed. "He thought it was hilarious."

She said she went to her car and "just started crying and crying."

The woman said she told her sister about the encounter with Schwarzenegger. In a telephone interview, the sister confirmed that she had been told about the incident at the time. She recalled that her sibling was "completely offended" by it.

One of the women in the Premiere article was British television host Anna Richardson, who accused Schwarzenegger of touching her breast. In an interview with The Times, she confirmed that account.

Richardson said she was interviewing the actor in December 2000 as part of his promotional tour for the movie "The Sixth Day." The interview, to be aired on her TV show "Big Screen," took place in a suite at the Dorchester Hotel in London.

Richardson said she had interviewed Schwarzenegger on previous occasions and that he had been a "perfect gentleman."

"This time around was quite different," she recalled. "He was already kind of hyped up. He kept looking at my breasts, kept asking if I worked out," she said. "I went to shake his hand and he grabbed me onto his knee and he said, 'Before you go, I want to know if your breasts are real.' "

Richardson, then 29, said she replied that her breasts were real. She said she looked around for help from the other people in the room, but nobody came to her assistance. "At that point, he circled my left nipple with his finger and he said, 'Yes, they are real.' " She said he then let her go.

The Schwarzenegger campaign has provided a different account.

Sheryl Main, a Hollywood publicist who has worked with Schwarzenegger on many films and accompanied him on his worldwide travels since 1995, said she was present at the interview. Main said it was Richardson who provocatively approached Schwarzenegger. She said that after finishing the brief interview, Richardson rose, cupped her right breast in her right hand and said, "What do you think of these?" She then sat on his lap and was immediately escorted from the room, Main said.

She contends that Richardson later concocted her story.

A movie studio secretary said Schwarzenegger grabbed her buttocks in the late 1980s.

She said the episode occurred on the Columbia Pictures lot, where she worked. She said she often accompanied her boss, who was also a woman, on visits around the lot. One day the boss asked if she would like to meet Schwarzenegger, who was in a production office.

"It was like, 'Oh, come with me, you can meet him,' " the secretary said.

When they reached the office, she said, Schwarzenegger was seated on a couch. The secretary, then in her 30s, said she sat on a couch opposite Schwarzenegger while the actor and her supervisor talked. When the conversation ended, the secretary said she approached Schwarzenegger to shake his hand and say goodbye.

He remained seated, she said, and he slipped his left hand under her skirt and grabbed her right buttock.

"He just held on. He held on and said, 'You have a very nice ass.' He said, 'I'd love to work you out.' "

"I remember thinking his hand was cold on my butt," she said.

The door, not far from where Schwarzenegger was sitting, was open and the secretary said she remembers seeing a couple of people outside look in at them — and then quickly look away.

"All I was really thinking was, 'I'd like to go.' I was trying to figure out how to get his hand off my butt and his arm away from me without making a big deal of it. I remember thinking, 'Geez, that's a strong arm.' ... I was just thinking, 'Let me get out of here.' "

She said she looked at the ceiling and looked at her boss, who kept repeating, "We've got to go now. We've got to go now,' and yanking my arm. My boss did the best she could to get me away."

The secretary said Schwarzenegger released her after about 20 seconds.

Later, as they left the production office, the secretary said her flustered supervisor remarked, "Oh, my gosh! I had no idea he would do that." The secretary said she replied: "Oh, well, no big deal."

"I was sort of embarrassed in front of her. It just felt strange."

A day or two later, Schwarzenegger called her boss' office, and the secretary said she answered the phone. "He figured out it was me and he said, 'Oh, you still haven't come to work out with me.' " She said she did not respond and simply put her boss on the line.

Six or seven years later, the secretary recalled, she walked past Schwarzenegger on a studio lot. "No recognition. No looking," she said.

Now 47, she has been in and out of the entertainment business. After a long period of unemployment, she said she now has another secretarial job at a movie studio and does not want to risk losing it by being publicly identified. She also declined to provide the name of her boss on the Columbia lot, saying that it could jeopardize her career as well.

She has, however, recounted the story numerous times through the years — initially as a warning to other women with whom she worked. Yet the secretary said most women she knows in and around the entertainment business were untroubled by the incident.

"I was like, 'He's disgusting, he's revolting.' They said, 'No, he's hot.' The attitude of women was more upsetting than he was."

She also told the story to a friend, Michael Collins, a freelance writer and director of the Los Angeles Press Club. In an interview with The Times, Collins said that she recounted the episode to him eight months ago — well before the recall race. "She never thought he might run for governor," he said.

In late 1990, Schwarzenegger was in the San Bernardino County town of Fontana, shooting "Terminator 2: Judgment Day." According to a female crew member, Schwarzenegger harassed her on several occasions.

She recalled encountering the actor in an elevator as she headed downstairs to the pool of the hotel where the cast and crew were staying. On each occasion, she said, she was wearing a terrycloth robe over a black, one-piece Speedo swimsuit.

"At least three times — if not more — he would end up in the elevator with me, groping me and trying to take my robe off," said the crew member, now 41 and still working in the movie industry.

"He would pin me against the corner in the elevator" and try to take off her robe and pull down the straps of her suit, she said.

The incidents did not last long, she said, because the elevator ride was short.

The woman said her reactions to Schwarzenegger's overtures evolved with each incident. "The first time, you're like, "Oh, my God! I was groped by Arnold Schwarzenegger!' The second time you're like, 'This is disgusting.' The third time you're like, 'Get the ... away from me.' "

She said she told her boss, who advised her, "Just stay away from him."'

After that, the woman said, she would check the hotel hallway before entering the elevator. She said if Schwarzenegger got into the pool, she would get out.

"What could you do? He was the highest-paid actor in the world. I was a peon," she said. "The only thing you could do is stay away from him."

The crew member said she told her husband about the elevator confrontations within a year of when they first met in 1992. "I heard this story a long time ago," her husband confirmed.

The couple spoke with The Times only after repeated assurances that their names would be kept confidential. "I'm a professional in the film business," she said. "I fear retribution."

Another woman, now a wife and mother in her 30s, said she also fell in Schwarzenegger's "sight lines" while "Terminator 2" was being filmed in Fontana.

A member of the movie crew, she said Schwarzenegger was sitting in a director's chair, surrounded by three or four other men, waiting for filming to start. It was either late afternoon or early evening, she said.

"I was walking on the set and Arnold called out, 'Come here, you sexy devil,' and reached out and pulled me on to his lap," the woman recalled.

She said he then whispered in her ear: "Have you ever had a man slide his tongue in your [anus]?"

Young and unsure of herself, the woman said, "I didn't know how to react. It was bizarre. What he said was so specifically sexual, it was bizarre.

"I remember looking around and seeing this bank of smiling faces and feeling alone," she continued. The men standing at Schwarzenegger's side, she said, "were in total support mode — of him, not me. It was kind of like everything he did was OK, and isn't it funny and isn't it swell? It was like they were proud of him .... Nobody said, 'What are you doing? Leave her alone.' "

After the incident, she said, she continued on her way. "I didn't fall apart," she said, but added: "It's embarrassing and degrading when you're doing a job."

She did not report the incident, she said, because she was simply a low-level crew member. "You're in an environment where you just go with the flow but not cause trouble." The attitude on the set was: "Isn't it flattering that Arnold is paying attention to you?"

The woman said she recounted the incident at the time to a family member. In an interview with The Times, the family member confirmed being told about the encounter and said, "Arnold thought it was kind of fun to toy with her. It embarrassed her."

The woman said she wished she "wasn't so spineless," but feared that she would be shunned in Hollywood if quoted by name.

"There's an unspoken rule in the industry," she said. "What happens on the set stays on the set."

Nancy Tafoya, who was also on the set of "Terminator 2," recalled a memorable meeting with Schwarzenegger. Tafoya — who was serving as a legal guardian for 13-year-old actor Eddie Furlong, her nephew and one of the film's key characters — said she was talking with a group of people when Schwarzenegger came up behind her and yanked her long, black hair.

Her head snapped back, she said. Although she was not injured, Tafoya said she was "shocked." The people around her, she said, started laughing.

Tafoya said she was never touched in a sexual manner by Schwarzenegger, but she saw him push his body against a female crew member.

Tafoya said she was no more than 15 feet from Schwarzenegger when he approached a woman wearing jeans, a shirt and tennis shoes.

She said Schwarzenegger walked across the room and faced the woman. "Then he grabbed both sides of her knees and pushed them apart and started moving his pelvis into her," Tafoya said. "It lasted about 10 seconds." She said the woman laughed nervously, and Schwarzenegger walked away.

"I thought that was incredibly offensive, and I didn't know who I was more annoyed with — him or her," said Tafoya, a social worker. "But when I looked at her, I thought the woman didn't have much choice, because it happened so quick."

Some of the dozens of people interviewed for this article stressed that the culture on movie sets tends to be rowdy and permissive. Often, the tone is set by the star, they said.

In Schwarzenegger's case, they said, his sense of humor and language is often outrageous — but not mean-spirited. Many of his colleagues find him to be charming.

"He's fun, extremely intelligent and very professional," said stuntwoman Simone Boisseree, who worked with Schwarzenegger on four films. "I like him as a human being and think he's a decent guy."

Another stuntwoman, Chere Rae Bryson, came away with a different impression after working with Schwarzenegger on the 1990 movie "Total Recall." She said he often used vulgar words for vagina and clitoris during her contact with him during the filming.

"He was crude, boisterous and disparaging around women," she said. "In the makeup room, his language was so bad I turned around and walked out."

Bryson said Schwarzenegger seemed to have toned down his behavior when she worked with him on a second movie, "Collateral Damage," released in 2002.

"People do change as we get older," said Bryson, who was also an actress and Playboy bunny. "All of us, at one time or another, have displayed behavior that I'm sure we're not proud of. Hopefully, he's evolved from that."

Bryson said Schwarzenegger was also on his best behavior whenever his wife, Maria Shriver, was present. The couple married in 1986. "When Maria was around, he was a gentleman," Bryson said. "When she wasn't around, he was the opposite."

One woman who says she was deeply offended by Schwarzenegger's words was a waitress at the Bicycle Shop cafe on Wilshire Boulevard in West Los Angeles, where the actor used to hang out with about half a dozen pals on Sunday mornings in the late 1980s.

"They always sat in my section," she said. The group was friendly and chatty with her, and always took their lead from Schwarzenegger. They tipped well, too. "There was definitely harmless flirtation with all of them," said the woman, who also worked sporadically as a TV actress.

One Sunday, she said, she was pouring coffee at the table when Schwarzenegger beckoned her.

"I bent down to listen to him," she recalled. "He said, a little louder than a whisper, 'I want you to do a favor for me.' I thought, OK, maybe he wanted more bread. And he said, 'I want you to go in the bathroom, stick your finger in your [vagina], and bring it out to me.' "

She stood upright. "I was thoroughly disgusted" but said nothing to Schwarzenegger, she recalled. "There was drama in the silence of it," she said. "He looked up, and it looked like I was threatening [him] with the coffee pot."

Everyone at the table then glanced over at the restaurant owner, Andre Driollet. He wagged his finger at the waitress, she said, apparently fearful that she was going to dump the coffee on Schwarzenegger.

"I was so appalled, and when Andre looked at me [as if] to say you better not, I immediately went to him to tell him what happened," she recounted. What Schwarzenegger had said "was above and beyond what was acceptable. I think he should have had hot coffee poured in his lap."

Driollet, who according to a relative is living on a boat in the Caribbean, could not be reached. In interviews with The Times, two friends of the waitress said she told them of the incident long ago.

The waitress said she told Schwarzenegger at the time: "If you're ever some place and some woman throws hot coffee on your head, it will be me." He laughed, she said.

"He thought it was the funniest thing. And then the whole table laughed because, if Arnold laughed, the whole table laughed."


eleltea Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
Oh, that Arnie.
RDC Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
Sounds like he is a good fit for California or is that Californication?
uncleb Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
I don't doubt that he did these things. He as much as admitted it today. (See link).
Sounds a little Clintonesque eh? But no, wait, it couldn't be... he's a Republican. He could not have done these things.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&u=/nm/20031002/ts_nm/politics_california_dc_49

cwilhelmi Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Can't wait to see the people on this board try to defend him now when they've spoken out against Clinton for the same thing...

And yes, he admitted to doing it, which is not Clintonesque... :)
cruiser Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 06-15-2001
Posts: 739
Loosers like those woman who never made it big always complain jealous no.I hope he does't win and leave california in there mess.And I am shure you guy,s where alway's monks,and nothing happened when you where young.God bless you for that,oh I forget look at your own laundry.
Tobasco Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
At least Arnold has the guts to say he did those things, and apologize for it, unlike you know who...
uncleb Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
You're right. He is such a good person, I believe I will invite him to come over and grope my wife at his convenience. LOL!!
puskarich Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 01-04-2003
Posts: 2,143
Mary Carey touched me in a sexual manner without my consent, but you wont see me trying to sabotage her campaign. Thats the kind of stand-up guy I am.

:-)
usahog Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Wow Unc... you'd let him do that???

I do see it didn't take a whole Panel, and a private Investigation, and 30 Tomahawk Cruise Missiles fired into some shack in Africa (to Divert the Media Attention) to have him come clean on his convictions.... Keep an eye on me also... I'm going to run for some kind of office in the future... and I got some background that would make Arnold look like a Saint!!!!!!
Lets see who's in the Running??? Larry Flint?? he's clean... who's next??? you telling me non of these people have ever done things like that??? BWWwwwwwwaaaaHaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

Go Arnold!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hog
cwilhelmi Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
So now it's alright that he did these ILLEGAL acts since he admitted to them... quite convenient... whereas Clinton actually had consent, but I guess that doesn't matter, right?? How F*cking retarded...
HockeyDad Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,164
Chris,

These acts in his past are just fine as long as the voters of California elect him. It would be kinda like smoking pot but not inhaling.

Vote Mary Carey!
usahog Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Hillary told Bill to go ahead and get head???

Is that what your saying Chris???? she gave him the Go Ahead??? somehow I don't doubt they probably worked out a 3 way in there somewhere's huh???

what Clinton showed my Kids growing up is that it was alright to cheat on your Wife and lie about it... just don't get cought... but if you get caught lie some more.... He Stipped the Morals and Ethics right out of the White House and the United States with his Acts....

America had forgave him for his smoking dope... and Ignored that while the Gattlin Brothers did Flowers on the Wall... Bill was doing her everywhere else... and voted him in again cuz they had chump change in their pockets....... and Yes Bill did not Appologize to the American People he made everyone in America look like Fools!!!!!! at least Arnold stepped up like a Man and appologized for something that happened years ago!!!!

and like I said... I've probably Groped a few women in my time also... hold that accountable to me!!!! he was Rude!!!!!! give me a Break!!!!!!!

Hog
cwilhelmi Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Just because you like him or just because he's a GOP doesn't make the acts OK, or LEGAL, which is very different from the Clinton stuff. HTT as usual...
Tobasco Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

Chris, what do you want Arnold to do, quit? Yea right.

You're just pissed because as usual your views are the minority, and things once again arent going to go your way. A Republican is going to be the Governor. Get used to it.

Mag
jjohnson28 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
You fuggers crack me up! I'm mostly speaking about you libs that now claim the right is so self-righteous...
LMAO!
HockeyDad Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,164
Chris,

Don't forget that many of the Clinton allegations involved illegalities as well and were forgiven by the American voters. Smoking pot, decades of sexual assault/sexual harassment cases, Hillary's stock trading prowess, Whitewater.... These things were all in his past and forgiven. Then there were things while in office such as Monica that weren't illegal.

The bottom line is the moral and ethical bar for being a presidential candidate or a candidate for any office has been irrevokably lowered due to Clinton. That is a lasting legacy. Perhaps you should look at the ex-groping Austrian Republican who is soon to be governor of California as simply payback for Clinton. That is unless you already consider losing control of the White House, House of Representatives, and Senate as being payback enough!

I seem to recall the Democrats attacking GW Bush's past with shadowy allegations of drinking and cocaine during youth. The charges didn't stick. The ethical and moral bar was already lowered so these youthful indescretions were not important.

Now out of desperation, the Democrats are attacking again on moral and ethical grounds based on Arnold's past that has long been publicized. It isn't even new stuff, Arnold has always been known for his womanizing past. The problem is that thanks to Clinton, the Democrats have lost the right to attack from the moral high ground. The Democrats lowered the bar and they can't raise it back. Now hide your women!!!!!

There is, however, an alternative. marycareyforgovernor.com She has many exciting positions on the issues facing California.
cwilhelmi Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
How can anyone bring up Clintons pot smoking escapades and womanizing when GWB has coccaine, DUIs and womanizing on his record? True Clinton is worse in the respect that he did his womanizing in wedlock, but I think coccaine is just a little worse than pot.

Mag - Just sugar coat it however you want so that you don't feel bad supporting Arnold. Even though he's just as bad as Clinton and GWB. The one thing that's good about him is he had the balls to admit it. I do respect that, but it doesn't make it all better...
HockeyDad Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,164
Question: What is best in life?

"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!" - Conan the Barbarian

Chris, don't bother deciding whose skeletons in the closet are worse. The American voters have already decided that they're both fine. In days of old, the Democrats and Republicans both put the opposing candidates through a moral and ethical ringer to prove which could ride in on the white horse and save the day. Clinton survived the moral ringer and opened the Pandora's Box. There's nowhere left to draw the line for the moral high ground without getting caught as a hypocrite. Now get ready for your new Governator.

I need to go rent that movie "Total Recall", I loved that one.

Mary Carey for Governor!
Tobasco Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
chris, I dont need to sugar coat anything. Things are going just as I want them. Now, you may need to take a pill and relax, cause this is just the beginning. The country is shifting towards the right politically and you cant stop it....
cwilhelmi Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Mag - you've been listening and "following" Rush a little too much...
Tobasco Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
Thats a real good point chris, and really helps to further your views in this debate...yea right!
cwilhelmi Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
I didn't think you were actually paying attention to what I was writing anyway so I figured it wouldn't hurt.
Tobasco Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
No Youngster, I read every word you write, I just sift through the bullrap though, hehe!
cwilhelmi Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
If you honestly think this nation is moving to the right why has support for Iraq, approval ratings for GWB, and trust for this administration all declined? And if you think California is becoming Republican your definitely on oxies like Rush...
choner Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 02-04-2003
Posts: 876
I don't really care what people do in their private lives, as long as they do their job. But I don't like people who have double standards. If you didn't like Clinton's sexual habits, then you shouldn't like Arnie's either. But politics is politics and some just turn a blind eye.

Gary Coleman has my vote!

choner
cwilhelmi Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
from the LA Times, posted since their site requires you to register...

Women Say Schwarzenegger Groped, Humiliated Them

The acts allegedly took place over three decades. A campaign aide denies the accusations.

By Gary Cohn, Carla Hall and Robert W. Welkos, Times Staff Writers


Six women who came into contact with Arnold Schwarzenegger on movie sets, in studio offices and in other settings over the last three decades say he touched them in a sexual manner without their consent.

In interviews with The Times, three of the women described their surprise and discomfort when Schwarzenegger grabbed their breasts. A fourth said he reached under her skirt and gripped her buttocks.

A fifth woman said Schwarzenegger groped her and tried to remove her bathing suit in a hotel elevator. A sixth said Schwarzenegger pulled her onto his lap and asked whether a certain sexual act had ever been performed on her.

According to the women's accounts, one of the incidents occurred in the 1970s, two in the 1980s, two in the 1990s and one in 2000.

"Did he rape me? No," said one woman, who described a 1980 encounter in which she said Schwarzenegger touched her breast. "Did he humiliate me? You bet he did."

Four of the six women told their stories on condition that they not be named. Three work in Hollywood and said they were worried that, if they were identified, their careers would be in jeopardy for speaking out against Schwarzenegger, the onetime bodybuilding champion and box-office star who is now the front-runner in the Oct. 7 gubernatorial recall election.

The other unnamed woman said she feared public ridicule and possible damage to her husband's business.

In the four cases in which the women would not let their names be published, friends or relatives said that the women had told them about the incidents long before Schwarzenegger's run for governor.

None of the six women who gave their accounts to The Times filed any legal action against him.

Schwarzenegger's campaign spokesman, Sean Walsh, said the candidate has not engaged in improper conduct toward women. He said such allegations are part of an escalating political attack on Schwarzenegger as the recall election approaches.

"We believe Democrats and others are using this to try to hurt Arnold Schwarzenegger's campaign," Walsh said. "We believe that this is coming so close before the election, something that discourages good, hard-working, decent people from running for office."

Walsh said Schwarzenegger himself would have no comment.

The Times did not learn of any of the six women from Schwarzenegger's rivals in the recall race. And none of the women approached the newspaper on her own. Reporters contacted them in the course of a seven-week examination of Schwarzenegger's behavior toward women on and off the movie set.

Schwarzenegger's attitudes about women have been an issue on the campaign trail, where critics have accused him of being misogynistic, based on past statements he has made to various publications. In response, Schwarzenegger has said he respects women and that many of his comments were made in jest or simply meant to be provocative.

Schwarzenegger's conduct toward women also has been widely discussed in Hollywood over the years, notably after a March 2001 article in Premiere magazine called "Arnold the Barbarian." After the article appeared, a number of Schwarzenegger's colleagues wrote to the magazine saying that the story was inaccurate and that Schwarzenegger treated women with respect and kindness.

The earliest incident of the six described to The Times was said to have occurred in 1975 at Gold's Gym near Venice Beach. E. Laine Stockton, then newly married to professional bodybuilder Robby Robinson, said she had gone to the gym to watch her husband work out.

Stockton was 19 at the time. She said she was wearing slacks, tennis shoes and a loose-fitting T-shirt. She said she was not wearing a bra.

As she sat on an exercise bench, Stockton said, Schwarzenegger walked up behind her, reached under her T-shirt and touched her bare left breast.

"The gym is full of bodybuilders and Arnold comes and he gropes my breast — actually touches my breast with his left hand," she said.

She said Schwarzenegger then walked away without saying a word.

Stockton said she does not rule out that Schwarzenegger "may have meant it in playfulness." But she did not take it that way.

"I was just shocked, shocked to the point where I almost didn't know how to react, because it was so out of the blue and so unexpected," she said. "It just completely caught me off guard, and when I finally came to my senses, I immediately went over to Robby and I said, 'Look, Arnold just groped my breast.' "

Robinson, a former Mr. America, Mr. World and Mr. Universe, said he "tried to comfort her."

Robinson has since had a falling out with Schwarzenegger. An African American known as the "Black Prince" during his years on the professional bodybuilding circuit, Robinson has accused Schwarzenegger of racism — a charge that Schwarzenegger's campaign denies.

Robinson said he was upset by what Schwarzenegger had done to his wife, but did not confront him. "What he did was uncalled for, but I couldn't say nothing," Robinson said, explaining that he feared he'd be ostracized by the bodybuilding world.

He said he told his wife to stay out of Gold's Gym.

Robinson and Stockton are now divorced. They were interviewed separately by The Times.

Incident on Street

Another incident described to The Times was said to have occurred in 1980. A former pro beach volleyball player said Schwarzenegger touched her breast on a Santa Monica street.

The woman remembered walking down 19th Street, just off Wilshire Boulevard, when Schwarzenegger spotted her from his car.

"Come here," she recalled Schwarzenegger saying, as he motioned with his finger to the woman, then 22.

The two knew each other. She worked as a waitress at Fromin's deli, she said, a place Schwarzenegger frequented. On an earlier occasion, she recalled, Schwarzenegger had asked her when she was going on break. "We could have a lot of fun in half an hour," she remembered him saying. She said she was both a little scared and a little flattered. "I can't say I wasn't flattered. Arnold invited me to his apartment." She said she declined his invitation.

Schwarzenegger later renewed his invitation, she said, when he spotted her playing in a women's volleyball tournament at Venice Beach. "After the game, he came up to me and said, 'Now you will come to my apartment.' He didn't want to hear no." The woman said she told him, "It's not going to happen."

Now, she said, as she walked along 19th Street, Schwarzenegger conveyed a sense of urgency: "Come close, it's very important." As she drew nearer to his car to hear what he had to say, she recounted, Schwarzenegger "grabbed and squeezed" her left breast.

"If I was a man," she said she told him, "I would bust your jaw."

As tears welled in her eyes, she said, Schwarzenegger laughed. "He thought it was hilarious."

She said she went to her car and "just started crying and crying."

The woman said she told her sister about the encounter, a claim the sister confirmed. She recalled that her sibling was "completely offended."

One of the women in the 2001 Premiere article was British television host Anna Richardson, who accused Schwarzenegger of touching her breast. In an interview with The Times, she reiterated that account.

Richardson said she was interviewing the actor in December 2000 as part of his promotional tour for the movie "The Sixth Day." The interview, to be aired on her TV show "Big Screen," took place in a suite at the Dorchester Hotel in London.

Richardson said she had interviewed Schwarzenegger on previous occasions and that he had been a "perfect gentleman."

"This time around was quite different," she recalled. "He kept looking at my breasts, kept asking if I worked out," she said. "I went to shake his hand and he grabbed me onto his knee and he said, 'Before you go, I want to know if your breasts are real.' "

Richardson, then 29, said she replied that her breasts were real. She said she looked around for help from other people in the room, but nobody came to her assistance. "At that point, he circled my left nipple with his finger and he said, 'Yes, they are real.' " She said he then let her go.

The Schwarzenegger campaign provided a different account.

Sheryl Main, a Hollywood publicist who has worked with Schwarzenegger on many films and accompanied him on his worldwide travels since 1995, said she was present at the interview with Richardson. Main said it was Richardson who provocatively approached Schwarzenegger. She said that after finishing the brief interview, Richardson rose, cupped her right breast in her right hand and said, "What do you think of these?" She then sat on his lap and was immediately escorted from the room, Main said.

She contends that Richardson later concocted her story.

Secretary's Story

A movie studio secretary said Schwarzenegger grabbed her buttocks in the late 1980s.

She said the episode occurred on the Columbia Pictures lot, where she worked. She said she often accompanied her boss, who was also a woman, on visits around the lot. One day the boss asked if she would like to meet Schwarzenegger, who was in a production office.

"It was like, 'Oh, come with me, you can meet him,' " the secretary said.

When they reached the office, she said, Schwarzenegger was seated on a couch. The secretary, then in her 30s, said she sat on a couch opposite Schwarzenegger while the actor and her supervisor talked. When the conversation ended, the secretary said she approached Schwarzenegger to shake his hand and say goodbye.

He remained seated, she said, and he slipped his left hand under her skirt and grabbed her right buttock.

"He just held on. He held on and said, 'You have a very nice ass.' He said, 'I'd love to work you out.' "

"I remember thinking his hand was cold on my butt," she said.

The door was open and the secretary said she remembers seeing a couple of people outside look in — and then quickly look away.

"All I was really thinking was, 'I'd like to go.' I was trying to figure out how to get his hand off my butt and his arm away from me without making a big deal of it. I remember thinking, 'Geez, that's a strong arm.' ... I was just thinking, 'Let me get out of here.' "

She said she looked at the ceiling and looked at her boss, who kept repeating, "We've got to go now. We've got to go now,' and yanking my arm. My boss did the best she could to get me away."

The secretary said Schwarzenegger released her after about 20 seconds.

Later, as they left the production office, the secretary said her flustered supervisor remarked, "Oh, my gosh! I had no idea he would do that." The secretary said she replied: "Oh, well, no big deal."

"I was sort of embarrassed in front of her. It just felt strange."

A day or two later, Schwarzenegger called her boss' office, and the secretary said she answered the phone. "He figured out it was me and he said, 'Oh, you still haven't come to work out with me.' " She said she did not respond and simply put her boss on the line.

Six or seven years later, the secretary recalled, she walked past Schwarzenegger on a studio lot. "No recognition. No looking," she said.

Now 47, she has been in and out of the entertainment business. After a long period of unemployment, she said she now has another secretarial job at a movie studio and does not want to risk losing it by being publicly identified. She also declined to provide the name of her boss on the Columbia lot.

She has, however, recounted the story numerous times through the years — initially as a warning to other women with whom she worked. Yet the secretary said most women she knows in and around the entertainment business were untroubled by the incident.

"I was like, 'He's disgusting, he's revolting.' They said, 'No, he's hot.' The attitude of women was more upsetting than he was."

She also told the story to a friend, Michael Collins, a freelance writer and a director of the Los Angeles Press Club. In an interview with The Times, Collins said that she recounted the episode to him eight months ago — well before the recall race. "She never thought he might run for governor," he said.

'This Is Disgusting'

In late 1990, Schwarzenegger was in the San Bernardino County town of Fontana, shooting "Terminator 2: Judgment Day." According to a female crew member, Schwarzenegger harassed her on several occasions.

She recalled encountering the actor in an elevator as she headed downstairs to the pool of the hotel where the cast and crew were staying. On each occasion, she said, she was wearing a terrycloth robe over a black, one-piece Speedo swimsuit.

"At least three times — if not more — he would end up in the elevator with me, groping me and trying to take my robe off," said the crew member, now 41 and still working in the movie industry.

"He would pin me against the corner in the elevator" and try to take off her robe and pull down the straps of her suit, she said.

The incidents did not last long, she said, because the elevator ride was short.

The woman said her response to Schwarzenegger's actions evolved with each incident. "The first time, you're like, "Oh, my God! I was groped by Arnold Schwarzenegger!' The second time you're like, 'This is disgusting.' The third time you're like, 'Get the ... away from me.' "

She said she told her boss, who advised her, "Just stay away from him."'

After that, the woman said, she would check the hotel hallway before entering the elevator. She said if Schwarzenegger got into the pool, she would get out.

"What could you do? He was the highest-paid actor in the world. I was a peon," she said. "The only thing you could do is stay away from him."

The crew member said she told her husband about the elevator confrontations in 1992 or 1993. "I heard this story a long time ago," her husband confirmed.

The couple spoke with The Times only after repeated assurances that their names would be kept confidential. "I'm a professional in the film business," she said. "I fear retribution."

Another woman, now a wife and mother in her 30s, said she also fell in Schwarzenegger's "sight lines" while working as a crew member on "Terminator 2" in Fontana.

She said Schwarzenegger was sitting in a director's chair, surrounded by three or four other men, waiting for filming to start. It was either late afternoon or early evening, she said.

"I was walking on the set and Arnold called out, 'Come here, you sexy devil,' and reached out and pulled me on to his lap," the woman recalled.

She said he then whispered in her ear: "Have you ever had a man slide his tongue in your [anus]?"

"I didn't know how to react," the woman said. "It was bizarre. What he said was so specifically sexual, it was bizarre.

"I remember looking around and seeing this bank of smiling faces and feeling alone," she continued. The men standing at Schwarzenegger's side, she said, "were in total support mode — of him, not me. It was kind of like everything he did was OK, and isn't it funny and isn't it swell? It was like they were proud of him .... Nobody said, 'What are you doing? Leave her alone.' "

After the incident, she said, she continued on her way. "I didn't fall apart," she said, but added: "It's embarrassing and degrading when you're doing a job."

She did not report the incident, she said, because she was a low-level crew member. "You're in an environment where you just go with the flow." The attitude on the set was: "Isn't it flattering that Arnold is paying attention to you?"

The woman said she recounted the incident at the time to a family member. In an interview with The Times, the family member confirmed being told about the encounter and said, "Arnold thought it was kind of fun to toy with her. It embarrassed her."

The woman said she wished she "wasn't so spineless," but feared that she would be shunned in Hollywood if quoted by name.

"There's an unspoken rule in the industry," she said. "What happens on the set stays on the set."

Nancy Tafoya, who was also on the set of "Terminator 2," recalled her own encounter with Schwarzenegger. Tafoya — who was serving as a legal guardian for 13-year-old actor Eddie Furlong, her nephew and one of the film's key characters — said she was talking with a group of people when Schwarzenegger came up behind her and yanked her long, black hair.

Her head snapped back, she said. Although she was not injured, Tafoya said she was "shocked." The people around her, she said, started laughing.

Tafoya said she was never touched in a sexual manner by Schwarzenegger, but she saw him push his body against a female crew member.

Tafoya said she was about 15 feet from Schwarzenegger when he approached a woman wearing jeans, a shirt and tennis shoes.

She said Schwarzenegger walked across the room and faced the woman. "Then he grabbed both sides of her knees and pushed them apart and started moving his pelvis into her," Tafoya said. "It lasted about 10 seconds." She said the woman laughed nervously, and Schwarzenegger walked away.

"I thought that was incredibly offensive, and I didn't know who I was more annoyed with — him or her," said Tafoya, a social worker. "But when I looked at her, I thought the woman didn't have much choice, because it happened so quick."

Walsh, the Schwarzenegger spokesman, said that the campaign was talking to senior crew members on the "Terminator 2" set to investigate the various incidents cited by The Times.

"We talked to members of the production crew who were in a supervisory role and they said they were not aware" of the alleged improprieties, Walsh said.

Permissive Atmosphere

Some of the dozens of people interviewed for this article stressed that the culture on movie sets tends to be rowdy and permissive. Often, the tone is set by the star, they said.

In Schwarzenegger's case, they said, his sense of humor and language is often outrageous — but not mean-spirited. Many of his colleagues find him to be charming.

"He's fun, extremely intelligent and very professional," said stuntwoman Simone Boisseree, who worked with Schwarzenegger on four films. "I like him as a human being and think he's a decent guy."

Another stuntwoman, Chere Rae Bryson, came away with a different impression after working with Schwarzenegger on the 1990 movie "Total Recall." She said he used vulgar words for vagina and clitoris during her contact with him during the filming.

"He was crude, boisterous and disparaging around women," she said. "In the makeup room, his language was so bad I turned around and walked out."

Bryson said Schwarzenegger seemed to have toned down his behavior when she worked with him on a second movie, "Collateral Damage," released in 2002.

"People do change as we get older," said Bryson, who was also an actress and Playboy bunny. "All of us, at one time or another, have displayed behavior that I'm sure we're not proud of. Hopefully, he's evolved from that."

Bryson said Schwarzenegger was also on his best behavior whenever his wife, Maria Shriver, was present. The couple were married in 1986. "When Maria was around, he was a gentleman," Bryson said. "When she wasn't around, he was the opposite."

One woman who says she was deeply offended by Schwarzenegger's words was a waitress at the now-defunct Bicycle Shop cafe on Wilshire Boulevard in West Los Angeles, where the actor used to hang out with about half a dozen friends on Sunday mornings in the late 1980s.

"They always sat in my section," she said. The group was friendly and chatty with her, she said, and took their lead from Schwarzenegger. They tipped well, too. "There was definitely harmless flirtation with all of them," said the woman, who also worked sporadically as a TV actress.

One Sunday, she said, she was pouring coffee at the table when Schwarzenegger beckoned her to his side.

"I bent down to listen to him," she recalled. "He said, a little louder than a whisper, 'I want you to do a favor for me.' I thought, OK, maybe he wanted more bread. And he said, 'I want you to go in the bathroom, stick your finger in your [vagina], and bring it out to me.' "

She stood upright. "I was thoroughly disgusted" but said nothing to Schwarzenegger, she recalled. "There was drama in the silence of it," she said. "He looked up, and it looked like I was threatening [him] with the coffee pot."

Everyone at the table then glanced over at the restaurant owner, Andre Driollet. He wagged his finger at the waitress, she said, apparently fearful that she was going to dump the coffee on Schwarzenegger.

"I was so appalled, and when Andre looked at me [as if] to say you better not, I immediately went to him to tell him what happened," she recounted. What Schwarzenegger had said "was above and beyond what was acceptable. I think he should have had hot coffee poured in his lap."

Driollet, who according to a relative is living on a boat in the Caribbean, could not be reached. In an interview with The Times, a friend of the waitress said she told him of the incident long ago.

The waitress said she told Schwarzenegger at the time: "If you're ever some place and some woman throws hot coffee on your head, it will be me." He laughed, she said.

"He thought it was the funniest thing. And then the whole table laughed because, if Arnold laughed, the whole table laughed."

Times researcher John L. Jackson contributed to this report.
usahog Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
CWil, you like eating up some Bandwidth eh??? I posted this on another Thread just like you did...

and you point is???

let me Guess... you don't like Arnold and Arnolds still going to Win... and your Pissed because of it... and allot of folks here on the board likes Arnold... and Arnolds going to Win and your pissed about it...
Hog Likes Arnold and he's not even Voting in this one because he doesn't live in the Country of California...

And????

oh and BTW Bill didn't represent Hitler, but he went to Russia to Escape the Draft in the 60s and protested the war from there... also learning allot about Comunistic Ways!!!!!!! Thank God that Regime is Over!!!!

Go Arnie!!!!!!!

Hog
cwilhelmi Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Hog - I don't like Arnold, that is obvious, but unlike the people who do like him, I have reason on my side... I'm pissed because it's laughable that he will be our governor, not only does he have no applicable experience, he hasn't even voted for 15 years, and he's a POS... It's sad that the GOP started this whole thing and this is the best candidate they can produce? And it's even more sad that he'll probably win.
Tobasco Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809


Chris, why is it that, everyone we speak of that you dont like is a piece if ****? Grow up. Thats not neccessary.

Neither are comments that others that post are smoking dope or taking drugs. That didnt used to be your style. Whats up with that?

You didnt used to try and piss people off. You were always the debater with a level head. You arent anymore.

Mag
cwilhelmi Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
He's a POS for his treatment of women. It would be completely different if it was consensual, but it wasn't. I have several good female friends that were raped, and many others that have been groped and harrassed, I take it VERY seriously!! And frankly, I'm surprised and dissappointed that the rest of you don't as well. What if he had done it to your wife, or your daughter? Maybe then it would be a bigger deal...

I'm done with this...
cwilhelmi Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
I lied, one last thing...

Notice I never mentioned the orgy he admitted to having, I could care less about it because it was consensual, the other stuff was not. That's the point I'm trying to make...
Tobasco Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

That wasnt an answer to my simple question. Why are you using the profanity and cheap shots like saying I must be smoking dope ot taking drugs to have my views?

You are acting the same way Gov Davis is acting. Forget the issues, and go for the personal attacks. On me, on other Reps on these boards, and on the Republican Candidates. It doesnt work, and next week you will see that I'm right.

Mag
cwilhelmi Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Re-read my last two posts then continue here. This issue gets me fired up, the profanity I could care less about, we're grown ups and I don't think it was that bad, I usually try to avoid it and I'll be more cognizant now.

Sorry if I offended you on this thread, but I just can't believe how forgiving people are being now when all I've heard on this board the entire time I've been here is about what a sleaze Clinton is, now that the shoe's on the other foot people get quite.


I apologize if you took the Rush comment seriously, that was a joke. I know you don't use drugs!

Now answer my question, what if this had happened to your wife, or you sister, or any other woman in your family? And remember, he admitted to it. He didn't go into details but he obviously didn't want to. Would you forgive and forget so soon if it was someone you cared about?
Tobasco Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

No, I wouldnt forgive him if I knew he did it.

Mag
cwilhelmi Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Then don't forget what he did! It's not a matter to be glanced over so easily...
usahog Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
the GOP started this whole thing??? 2.9 Million Voting people living in California wanted the recall... are you telling me there's 2.9 million Republicans in Cali alone??? a **** load must have changed colors or moved there after the 2000 election.... because Cali was won by Gore and the numbers coming out of the state at the time wasn't even close to 2 million votes for Bush in 2000???? give me a break here Cwil....

look for the other... like Hockydad posted....
who's this mary person???

I really don't give a **** who wins.. I don't live there in Cali... but I do like Arnold... and I think it's a smear campaign!!!!

Hog
cwilhelmi Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Hog - there's 36 million people here, keep that in mind... And also keep in mind who started the whole recall push, it was the GOP...
Tobasco Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809

Yea Hog, I also think you underestimated the population of this state. 2.9% is less than 10% of the state. But polls have shown about 65% of Republicans want the recall and about 30% of Dems do.

That is still alot of Dems since they dominate this state.

Mag
Tobasco Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
I meant 2.9 million, not 2.9%

Mag
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Magnafide

he never admitted it. he was outed. his apology was BS.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
i wish i were a right wing zealot. how simple everything would be.

i wouldn't have to make any decisions. i could just make up my mind based on other right wing zealots.

i could speak the same cliches as the rest of my group does. i could ignore, forgive, or make believe the vast left wing conspiracy and the left wing media have made up all the negative things they say about my heros, i mean the heros i have decided after careful researching, reading, and deciding on my own, that what my fellow zealots have decided are heroes, are my heros.

i wold never have to question anyone except the pinko, left wing liberal commie lovers who are out to destroy MY country with their ideas that we should help the poor and needy. i know that if they don't love MY country, they should go someplace else where they will not be able to voice opinions.

i'd never have to doubt that GEORGE W BUSH is the greatest and smartest president wwe will ever have.

john ashcroft isn't a lesbian like that reno was, and ****** cheney has only the interests of the american people. he said he and halliburton have parted ways and he has no interest in their growth.

and oil isn't really that important to this country.

i wold know the only plane authorized to fly on 9/12 was the one that flew the saudi elite back to saudi arabia because they had a big family get-to-gether planned and GEORGE W BUSH, being a family man, having two daughters working very hard to get their college education, didn't want them to miss the party.

i could sleep peacfully knowing i have made all the RIGHT decisions each day.

but to sleep, perchance to dream, aye there's the rub.
usahog Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Rick.. We were flying on 9/12 so wasn't many other Units!!!!! and there were still some other Flights Authorized "OUT" of JFK and LAX on 9/12 with Escorts!!!

But I also did read that members of the Royal Saudi family were allowed to leave this Country a day or so after 911 and it wasn't for a Family get together... it was for their own safty as we all know it was in the Best Interest because this time everyone knew the World Trade Center Event was a Terrorist Act just as it was in 1993 but played down by Clinton and his Administration as a National Disaster "Read"
"An Unheeded Warning!!!" Post
http://www.cigarbid.com/...geDisplay=0000000014926

and then when you've read that one check this one out also...
"Some Famous Quotations"
http://www.cigarbid.com/...geDisplay=0000000014870

Seems non of you Libs want to Touch Base with Reality!!!!
I give you Facts and you give me Friction!!!!
Go Figure!!!!!

Hog
usahog Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Safty = Safety...

Hog
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
i answered this on one of your other posts.

friction!!! you can't handle friction.
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