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Where do these two spineless countries get over whining on the Iraq issue....Germany's attitude actually bothers me more because it is unexpected opposition...France on the otherhand has been totally spineless and without convictions other than total appeasement and capitulation since Napoleon....My father once said that going to war without France as an ally is like going duck hunting without your accordian....how true...pour more French wine in the street and go to England or Spain for your next vaction

it's simply a token gesture and a way for JOE BLOW to make a statement of condemnation not and economic sanction,,,,It's called standing up for your convictions...hurts you as much or more than the target of your condemnation...having principles means nothing until it cost you to stand up for them..

I'll stick to Californian and Australian and I can rest assured that what I'm drinking isn't filtered in cow's blood!

jdrabinski,

You need to bring more to the party than just political rhetoric. Facts will set you free!


“Why is political disagreement 'whining'? “

You need to a take a step back and understand the facts. These countries did not support the US in this “War on Terrorism” only because of their own special interests:
• Germany, France and Russia didn’t want the US go into to IRAQ because it would screw up their current business deals with that killer Saddam
• By the US going in on it’s with out their approval. This lessened their own international political power. France specially hates being a 3rd rate country
• The US is the only super power both Military and Economic and French, German and Russian governments felt that by holding the US hostage during this their own power and popularity will increase internally because they are perceived as being “strong”. It did occur in France, Germany and Russia.
• We continue to be the most benevolent and generous country in the history of the world and they wanted a mold the spin where they would be able to take some of the credit for a solution.

With terrorism being such an important topic for all countries it’s pretty sad they could not look past their own selfish agendas and come together to defeat this type of blatant terrorism.


” Those countries are democracies. The VAST majority of their people opposed the war in Iraq. If we require them to do what WE say, instead of responding to the will of THEIR OWN people, then are we not disrespecting democracy? “

• I for one don’t want our foreign policy shaped two governments run by Socialists (France and Germany) and one by ex-communist (Russia). I am sure as a liberal that gives you a “hard on” just thinking about that possibility.
• The Europeans have a long history just talking, talking and talking about issues without resolutions. If you don’t tackle the problem it will get worse. (See the history of WWI, WWII, League of Nations, UN etc etc, etc). They succeeded in “talking” Hitler into trying to take over the world.
• A true leader is one who doesn’t take a poll before they decides on the path to take. I true leader thinks seriously about the ramifications and then makes the decision with-out the latest CNN poll. You can not run a country based on poll results because polls are flawed. (Although Clinton tried.)
• What we did in IRAQ was democracy in action ( Establish the leaders powers, Elected leaders, Debate subject, Decide on course, Take action, monitor plan and make changes if necessary)

GT

Which Argentine wines?

I've never been a big fan of French wines. They're OK, but I like the full body complexity of the California Cabs.
I've also enjoyed many of the Shiraz' from down under. Great bargains.

Tailgater,

I actually found the responses pretty incoherent and comprised mostly of non-sequiturs. I've actually searched for an intelligent point or two and found none. Just a rehash of how European history has had a lot of wars. Yes, I went to Middle School too...already knew that. Or folks just made their own comment, not really addressing my rather simple questions.

By name-calling France and Germany, instead of understanding a difference of opinion (unresolvable one), we look idiotic and disrespectful of their democratic process. Calling our critics 'whiners' may work on right-wing am radio, but the world is more serious and complex than that kind of bull****.

I wish supporters of GWB were more adult in their response...'more adult'--I can't think of any other way to put it. So much WHINING about allies having different opinions sounds like a bunch of 5th graders who are mad because their friends left the soccer game. Allies are not blind supporters. They are autonomous nations, with whom we share a lot of common interests.

Further, by your logic, WE should have not gone to war in Iraq because our allies said 'no.' Right? I mean, think about it...we showed ourselves to be bad allies by not doing what THEY wanted to do. Or maybe blind loyalty is not the meaning of 'ally.'

We did, after all, come crawling back to the UN like an ex-girlfriend who blew up and stormed out, showing up later sheepish and begging. THAT embarrassed me. What were we thinking?

John

"Freedom Grigio," please.

John...unfortunately you've apparently choosen the low road in this discourse of attempting to demaean the opposition rather than addressing the salient points in the position...apparently in middle school you became aware of the facts but not the substance of the history....I am sorry you take my arguments as being shallow but feel yours is somehow on a "higher plane"...when in fact I find yours absolute void of substance or principle but only simplistic and self serving...thankfully you and I will never agree concerning the inherent stength of being true to a faith or principle only the easy unfettered way out of a difficult conflict without sacrifice....where the is no soul the is will

I didn't say your comments were shallow. I said they were non-sequiturs, which means that they didn't address my questions. Fine. Maybe you didn't want to. But I did not call them shallow.

John

friendly intent taken...butwhere's the levity???over my head??

Thanks for the explanation...I didn't catch on...actually that is quite creative and funny and I am not being factious...although I do not agree that MOST people thought freedom fries was silly....I'll bet on a poll that says more appreciated it than didn't...now that was funny and had a very salient point in my eye.

My wife and I are members of a monthly wine club. We kept getting domestic wines in shipments that chould have had an international selection.

They sent out an apology letter to their membership, explaining the selections they had to substitute with domestic wines were shipments from France.

In the current political climate, they decided to suspend selections from France indefinitely.

Frankly (no pun intended) I make every attempt to avoid having as much a one penny be spent on a French product or company.

No offense taken USAhog.

"Freedom" fries is one thing I just don't get. You remove the word French from a common term yet a lot of the words you use on a daily basis are derived from the French language. And this changing of one word is supposed to somehow make a bold statement? The most ironic thing is that French fries aren't even French.

I'm in a wine of the month club as well. We still get French wine (among others) and I still drink it. I'm with jdrabinski on this one. If you don't like the wine send it to me. One of my favorite reds is the Beaujolais.

you can have mine next month..phenix

If I get a shipment of B.N. the club (I don't use their name due to their association with a cigar club) I'll be happy to trade you the B.N. for a Cab or Pinot.