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Mass. Marriage Decision
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RICKAMAVEN Offline
#51 Posted: Wed, Nov 19 2003, 4:35 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
xrundog

armegeddon?

sodom and gomorrah has already been done and it didn't do any good.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#52 Posted: Wed, Nov 19 2003, 4:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
spence28

because homosexuals cannot reproduce, so if it is genetic, it ends.
tailgater Offline
#53 Posted: Wed, Nov 19 2003, 6:27 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I think it would be OK if the Coors Light twins were both bisexual...

choner Offline
#54 Posted: Wed, Nov 19 2003, 8:30 PM EST
Joined: 02-04-2003
Posts: 876
With identical twins, they do have the same genetic material. But their expression levels of every gene is different. If you know any identical twins, you know that they are sometimes very different in temper, manner, physical ability, and sereval other things. That comes from environmental, developmental, and bioloigical factors that make them different. Just because one identical twin is gay and the other is not, it doesn't disprove anything.

choner
eleltea Offline
#55 Posted: Thu, Nov 20 2003, 3:45 AM EST
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
A taxidermist mounts animals. A hermit goes off by himself.
spence28 Offline
#56 Posted: Thu, Nov 20 2003, 5:14 AM EST
Joined: 07-24-2003
Posts: 143
Rickmaven,
You are right but I don't think that is what he meant.
I think he meant given the chance to be inherited, if it is genetic, it can't be. I don't understand.
plabonte Offline
#57 Posted: Thu, Nov 20 2003, 6:47 AM EST
Joined: 09-11-2000
Posts: 2,131
Well homosexuals can reproduce Ric. They could be sperm doners or they could tough it out and do it the old fashion way.

What I don't understand is if being gay is genetic then you are born gay. If that is the case then how do you explain bi-sexual and people who are married and then wake up and decide they are now gay?
AVB Offline
#58 Posted: Thu, Nov 20 2003, 7:24 AM EST
Joined: 05-21-2003
Posts: 995
There are two ways of looking at this. First, homosexuality is an abnormality that affects about 5% of the population. Procreation has to be the main drive of the species so if you can't procreate, you aren't "normal". The how or why isn't fully understood at the moment.

Or, that homosexuality is a part of the "big" picture in that because of the lack of procreation homosexuals remove unwanted or unneeded variations from the gene pool.

Personally, I think it is triggered somehow and not purely genetic and definitely not learned.
RknRmnd Offline
#59 Posted: Thu, Nov 20 2003, 9:53 AM EST
Joined: 10-16-2001
Posts: 407
This subject seems to get alot of thought. For homosexualism to be considered hereditary seems very odd to me. Carriers of known traits in a bloodline are hereditary traits but where did this anomaly start and at what point did it become everso popular to have this said gene. Obviously every human being alive was born and has a genetic mother and father. Therefore they had genetic grandparents and great grandparents and so on.

How has this abnormality been passed on in such dramatic proportions without notice? Would this not mean that every culture of human beings would have a significant number of this anomaly as well? It just seems like too many people want this to be the answer for their choices that they have personally made. Science "might" be able to answer for a very small percentage of the countless people that say they are gay and have chosen to be the way they are. It is still an abnormality in any society. If it weren't, we would not be having this discussion.
RJ
spence28 Offline
#60 Posted: Thu, Nov 20 2003, 10:13 AM EST
Joined: 07-24-2003
Posts: 143
I posted it a few messages back, but I didn't know if the new posters on this topic read it, so here it is again.

Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2003 Jun;989:105-17

The etiology of anomalous sexual preferences in men.

Quinsey VL.
Psychology Department, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario, K7L 3N6, Canada. quinseypsyc.queensu.ca

People discover rather than choose their sexual interests. The process of discovery typically begins before the onset of puberty and is associated with an increase in the secretion of sex hormones from the adrenal glands. However, the determinants of the direction of sexual interest, in the sense of preferences for the same or opposite sex, are earlier. These preferences, although not manifest until much later in development, appear to be caused by the neural organizational effects of intrauterine hormonal events. Variations in these hormonal events likely have several causes and two of these appear to have been identified for males. One cause is genetic and the other involves the sensitization of the maternal immune system to some aspect of the male fetus. It is presently unclear how these two causes relate to each other. The most important question for future research is whether preferences for particular-aged partners and parts of the male courtship sequence share causes similar to those of erotic gender orientation.



choner Offline
#61 Posted: Thu, Nov 20 2003, 11:04 AM EST
Joined: 02-04-2003
Posts: 876
Spence, Thank you! That's what I have been trying to say in my previous posts.

choner
Fatshotbud Offline
#62 Posted: Thu, Nov 20 2003, 11:43 AM EST
Joined: 03-31-2003
Posts: 782
Yeah, I have been trying to "reach around" for my feelings on this.
Gb Offline
#63 Posted: Thu, Nov 20 2003, 11:53 AM EST
Joined: 03-20-2003
Posts: 260
How someone becomes or discovers they are gay is irrevelant to the topic of this discussion. What two consenting adults do in their own home, that brings no harm to others, is their business. If they want to get married for whatever reason, they should be allowed to under the law. I think it is about time this country and the world as a whole wake up and realize that previous attitudes towards gay individuals are arcane.
AVB Offline
#64 Posted: Thu, Nov 20 2003, 12:52 PM EST
Joined: 05-21-2003
Posts: 995
Being arcane is what got us this far. (Just playing Devil's Advocate)
Gb Offline
#65 Posted: Thu, Nov 20 2003, 3:24 PM EST
Joined: 03-20-2003
Posts: 260
Actually, it was being revolutionary, searching to be free from persecution, being free thinking and accepting of others that has gotten us where we are.

Now we are making more strides forward and some are scared to embrace the change.
tailgater Offline
#66 Posted: Thu, Nov 20 2003, 5:22 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Homosexuals always claim their sexuality is "who they are". Then they hate when they are defined by their sexuality.

They only want to be accepted into mainstream USA, yet they hold gay pride parades which are shameful events devoid of anything resembling pride.

They want to blend into the general population, yet they flock together and habitate heavily in certain geographies (San Fran, Provincetown, etc).

They want us to believe that what happens behind closed doors is nobodies business, but they push for heightened "awareness" in schools. It's plausible that tomorrows sex-education classes may include lessons on same-sex relationships (use your imagination)

I don't have any issue with gay marriages. But much of the public fear mongering is/was self imposed by the homosexual community themselves.
Gb Offline
#67 Posted: Fri, Nov 21 2003, 12:20 PM EST
Joined: 03-20-2003
Posts: 260
Thier actions are no different than those of the mainstream population. Look at any parade from a holiday... none of them resemble the basis for the holiday they are representing. I'm sure you can agrue that there are some pieces of a particular parade that has something to do with the celebration and I would say the same about a Gay Pride parade.

Regarding population concentrations... that's the same with any group... they will gravitate to similar demographics. I could give you a million examples, but I'm sure you get the point.

Education is schools is easily explainable as well. On possibility is that they want equal billing and by educating people about it, breaks down the fear and social stigmas associated with being gay.

Just my opinion. I certainly don't know as much about this as most.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#68 Posted: Fri, Nov 21 2003, 3:32 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
plabonte

there's no accounting for taste.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#69 Posted: Fri, Nov 21 2003, 3:35 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
AVB

when i was a kid in coney island, i loved to go to the penny arcane.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#70 Posted: Fri, Nov 21 2003, 3:36 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Gb

he may need a million examples, i need at least seven.
tailgater Offline
#71 Posted: Fri, Nov 21 2003, 4:50 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Gb,
You obviously have never been to a gay pride parade.

And you likely were lucky enough to have missed the debacle in Disney World this past year.

"In your face" does not equate to "acceptance".

They are their own worst enemy. And maybe you could give a similar example, but it doesn't change that fact.
dz130 Offline
#72 Posted: Fri, Nov 21 2003, 5:54 PM EST
Joined: 08-22-2003
Posts: 781
A few years ago, I worked PT at a construction site in Wash DC. One Sat., the National Gay Pride Parade (I think) came past us. Had no problems until the lesbians came by. The "bull dykes" got very militant and violent toward us. And we weren't even doing anything. We didn't know about the parade, and had to stop work because the trucks couldn't get into the site. We actually were too suprised to do anything, but watch. I don't know why they were so angry at us.
JonR Offline
#73 Posted: Fri, Nov 21 2003, 6:05 PM EST
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Yo dz130: It's called **** envy. JonR
dz130 Offline
#74 Posted: Fri, Nov 21 2003, 7:06 PM EST
Joined: 08-22-2003
Posts: 781
ROTFLMAO!
THL Offline
#75 Posted: Sat, Nov 22 2003, 2:30 PM EST
Joined: 10-22-2002
Posts: 3,044
Well you can bet ur ass...er... that it's going to become more and more prevalent. My inner cynic tells me that many lawyers stand poised to suckle the teat of the inevitable, gay divorce cash cow. Our lawmakers are to a large extent lawyers themselves......not that there's anything wrong with that!
MrSecureT Offline
#76 Posted: Mon, Nov 24 2003, 9:52 AM EST
Joined: 04-27-2002
Posts: 18
I don't give a flying flip who you marry--man, woman, gay, straight, trans-gendered, or whatever. Why should I? Another's choice of spouse doesn't affect me one iota, and this is supposed to be a free country. The court is right. Don't approve of gay marriage? Don't marry a gay person. Simple.
Gb Offline
#77 Posted: Mon, Nov 24 2003, 2:59 PM EST
Joined: 03-20-2003
Posts: 260
Tail,
You're right. I've never been to one of those parades and probably would like it if I went, so I don't go. But I would never not want gay people not to have the right to celebrate thier lifestyle. There are all kinds of suxually oriented parades in Europe (straight)and I probably would like the "in your face" attitude of those parades either, but again, I would fight for thier right to have them.

There is a vague parallel to people speaking out and protesting against the war in Iraq. I don't agree with them, but I would defend their right to express their opinion. Though I am not gay, I agree they should have the right to marry.

I would venture a guess that a high percentage of people who are openly gay, don't appreciate the "in your face" behavior of the more flamboyant either.
tailgater Offline
#78 Posted: Mon, Nov 24 2003, 7:11 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
I stated early on in this thread that I'm not opposed to gay marriages.
We likely all have friends or family that are gay, and we want them to be happy.

The resistance is from the "moral" crowd who are afraid that the marriage issue will be used as a stepping stone for other agendas.
Including "sex" education in our schools, the right to push for insurance-covered gender-bending operations, and more directly "forcing" legitimate religious groups to accept gay behavior and marriage or risk loosing tax exempt status.

The flamboyant lifestyle just fosters these fears and gives them legs they otherwise would not have. Why? Because as a group they don't want "us" to simply accept them. They want us to embrace them and celebrate their sexuality.

No thank you.

Cigarick Offline
#79 Posted: Mon, Nov 24 2003, 7:55 PM EST
Joined: 07-28-2002
Posts: 3,078
Heterosexual wimmens are pushing for public breastfeeding. GASP!

Homosexuality is a bioligical dead-end. That, by definition, makes it deviant from the norm. GASP!

The main reason the State is against homosexual marriage is because if they die with no beneficiary and no spouse, the State gets their estate.

Gasp?
Aundy Offline
#80 Posted: Mon, Nov 24 2003, 9:12 PM EST
Joined: 10-25-2002
Posts: 21
This morning, I woke up, took my daily position on the porcelin throne, and then I waited...

...I took a crap and it HURT!

I could never be gay...ever.

~Aundy
65gtoman Offline
#81 Posted: Tue, Nov 25 2003, 3:53 AM EST
Joined: 06-12-2003
Posts: 858
S.F. HAS NATION'S HIGHEST SYPHILIS RATE INCREASE OF
127% IN 2002 MOVES CITY FROM 6TH TO 1ST
With a top national ranking it could surely do without, San Francisco has surpassed Detroit as the city with the highest per-capita rate of syphilis in the United States.
Driven by an increase in new cases among gay white men, the nation's syphilis rate rose 9.1 percent in 2002, the second consecutive increase after a decade of decline that had raised hopes the sexually transmitted disease could be eliminated in the country.
With a 127 percent increase in syphilis cases last year, San Francisco jumped from sixth place nationally to first, ahead of Detroit, Atlanta, Newark, Baltimore and Oklahoma City.
Homebrew Offline
#82 Posted: Tue, Nov 25 2003, 4:50 AM EST
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
65GTOman,
You have just posted a great arguement, For Gay Marriage, as people in a Monogamous relationship, such as marriage, cannot contract a STD, without cheating, assuming neither party has it before hand.
Later
Dave (A.K.A. Homebrew)
plabonte Offline
#83 Posted: Tue, Nov 25 2003, 8:37 AM EST
Joined: 09-11-2000
Posts: 2,131
As a married person with no kids I have to pay more taxes then if I was single. I would think the Feds would be all for marriage as they will get more tax revenue from it.
65gtoman Offline
#84 Posted: Sun, Nov 30 2003, 4:08 AM EST
Joined: 06-12-2003
Posts: 858
Queer Eye for the Black Guy
by Ta-Nehisi Coates
September 24 - 30, 2003


http://www1.villagevoice.com/issues/0339/coates.php




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