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Last post 20 years ago by barryneedleman. 7 replies replies.
Jewish Couple Discharged from Army
barryneedleman Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 08-23-2000
Posts: 1,689
Jewish Couple Say They Were Discharged From Army Because They
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: December 5, 2003


Filed at 6:40 p.m. ET
HOUSTON (AP) -- Refael and Margaret Chaiken were supposed to be seven months into a five-year Army commitment by now, studying to be much-needed interrogators in the war on terrorism. Instead they are civilians looking for jobs.
The two were discharged after disobeying orders by skipping class so they could attend services for Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year. ``Our religion itself says if you are saving somebody's life, you have to (cease the observance),'' Refael Chaiken said. ``No one can convince us not going to class, when you can make it up, falls under that category.''
The Army calls the Nov. 14 discharges a simple matter.
``They didn't meet the requirements of the course,'' said Tanja Linton, a spokeswoman at Fort Huachuca, Ariz., where the Chaikens were training. ``You have to meet the requirements of the course. We really just don't see the story here.''
She said the Army acted within its regulation on religious practices, which says it will accomodate religious practices ``unless accommodation will have an adverse impact on unit readiness, individual readiness, unit cohesion, morale, discipline, safety, and/or health.''
Jack Zimmermann, a Jewish Vietnam veteran who served 14 years active duty in the Marines and 16 more in the Marine reserves before retiring as a colonel, said he was shocked to hear about the Chaikens' plight.
``I observed 30 Yom Kippurs as a Marine officer and was never asked not to,'' said Zimmermann, now a lawyer in Houston. ``Even in Vietnam, I was commanding an artillery battery along the (demilitarized zone) and was able to return to Danang for high holiday services.''
The military can bar a religious observance only in case of military necessity, added Zimmerman, who is not involved in the case. He said that should not include a ``stateside classroom situation'' and courses that easily could be made up.
The Chaikens said their problems began on Oct. 4, two days before the holiday, when Battalion Commander Dennis Perkins told them not to attend all-day services. They said they were told to go to class as scheduled, but could go to services after class.
That meant nothing, Refael Chaiken said, because classes lasted so long. So the couple skipped class and attended a service at the fort's chapel.
Refael Chaiken, 27, knew there would be consequences when they returned.
``They gave us a counseling statement and read us our rights, accused us of being AWOL and willful disobedience of a lawful order,'' said Chaiken, a veteran of the Israeli army who holds dual citizenship.
The couple said they were essentially put under house arrest and were threatened with military charges and punishment.
``We couldn't go to the store, we couldn't do anything,'' said Margaret Chaiken, 26, who holds a master's degree from the Sorbonne and speaks fluent French and Hebrew.
The legal problems disappeared when they filed a complaint with the Army's Equal Opportunity Department, the couple said. They were simply given a general discharge that mentions ``misconduct'' as a reason behind their return to civilian life.
The couple, who married in August after enlisting together, are staying with a relative in Houston and planned to seek work in the New York area.
Refael Chaiken still wants to employ his Arabic and Hebrew language skills -- honed growing up in Hebron since 1984 -- but believes he'll need an honorable discharge to have a chance at U.S. government work.
``With a discharge like this it's going to be very hard to get a job with a three-letter agency like the CIA or FBI,'' he said.


Your thoughts???????
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
things must have changed a great deal. when i was in the service, religious people were not only allowed, but encouraged to atend religious service of their choice.

this sounds like some more military BS, usually on the part of one officer who is a known ass-hole.
Steve*R Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 07-23-2001
Posts: 1,858
Very irresponsible act by the commanding officer.

I'm quite certain there's a shortage of interpreters in the U.S. Army that speak Arabic, Hebrew, and English fluently.
JonR Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Yes a very irresponsible act by the Chaikens who understood there would be consequences, and now must live with those consequences. So what's the problem ? JonR
MDavis Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2003
Posts: 94
Sounds like they weren't denied access to the services, just had to attend after class. The modern military is very different that years past. If they decide you are more trouble than you're worth, they simply discharge you. By the way, the General Discharge under Honorable Condition is not a "bad" discharge for federal employment or benefits. It may make you a less attractive candidate in certain agencies like CIA or FBI based on the circumstances but in general it should not be a bar to employment.

Lastly, this wasn't some 18 year old kid. This guy was a seasoned soldier and well educated individual. Seems he has poor decision making skills however.
Steve*R Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-23-2001
Posts: 1,858
JonR: From your response it's pretty clear you are totally unfamiliar with The Uniform Code of Military Justice. The penalty should have been, at a maximum, an Article 15, with a reprimand and loss of a week's pay.

The C.O. was protecting himself from a discrimination suit, by negotiating a joint discharge.
RknRmnd Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-16-2001
Posts: 407
Insubordination has no place in the workplace and especially not our millitary! There may have been other altenatives of punishment, the fact remains they knew they were disobeying a direct order! Not asking and unknowingly doing is one thing, but asking and being told otherwise and still doing not expecting consequences is childlike and should be treated as such (rebelling)! We don't know if this order was done publicly or in private.. if publicly, then what picture would that paint for everyone else that saw this display had nothing been done about it?
RJ
barryneedleman Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 08-23-2000
Posts: 1,689
In my opinion this is a blatant case of relegious discrimination. This is the holiest of days in the Jewish relegion - I am sure that classes are not scheduled on Christmas to accomodate the practicing Christians - the same accomodation must be made for the practicing Jews (and no I am not saying class should be cancelled for the High Holy Days). I understand the points about military discipline and generally agree but in my opinion this was an order based in bigotry and as such an unlawful order that could be and should be ignored. We should remember that Relegious Freedom is one of the basic freedoms this country was founded on and one of the basic freedoms the military is supposed to protect. If this was not training such an order could very well be valid.
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