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Last post 20 years ago by RICKAMAVEN. 38 replies replies.
I HAVE BEEN WARNING ALL OF YOU.
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RICKAMAVEN Offline
#1 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 8:44 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
if you don't know your history, you are going to repeat it.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0408/hentoff.php
drnos Offline
#2 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 9:17 AM EST
Joined: 10-29-2003
Posts: 2,787
Even those who know the history all too often repeat it anyway. Such is the human condition.
HockeyDad Offline
#3 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 9:30 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,164
Rick,

Did you read the article? Your comment about history repeating itself is not applicable.

I do not recall you have been warning all of us about this problem. What would your solution be?
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#4 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 10:26 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
HockeyDad

i most certainly have. any post about ashcroft or little w and their patriot act is history repeating itself.

wait until all the people that are not in christian churches on sunday are shipped off to the concentration camps already built. where? do your own research, you won't believe me.
00camper Offline
#5 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 10:46 AM EST
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
The constant harping from the left about how our individual freedoms are being taken from us is tiresome at best, and it could be construed as giving aid to the enemy at its worst.

Apparently nobody on the left understands the concept of sacrifice for the common good.

For example, lets say a highly contageous, fatal disease breaks out in a large city. Public health officials urge, even beg, the President to declare a state of emergency and quarantine the city to prevent the spread of something fatal. There will naturally be those people who will not submit voluntarily and the President will order that those people be imprisoned, probably in their own homes, for the duration of the emergency. When this happens, as it inevetibly will happen, the left will rise up and complain that these people's right of assembly or something else has been violated and their ACLU lawyers will sue in federal court for their release. When this happens, and it will happen sooner or later, I pray to God Almighty that the federal courts send the left and their ACLU lawyers packing.

You might be asking yourselves what this has to do with al Quaeda and the PWs held offshore. My example is exactly on point. The people being held in Navy brigs want to kill Americans (or help others kill Americans) in the following order:
1]U.S. Servicemen and women,
2]Americans abroad,
3]Americans on American soil.

If these people are in the brig then they can't try to kill U.S. soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines in foreign countries and they can't plot to kill our fellow citizens here at home.

I for one am glad that Dubya wants to keep these people in detention. Their right to freedom ends when they plot to kill me and my fellow citizens.

usahog Offline
#6 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 10:56 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
00camper let me add to that a bit
1]U.S. Servicemen and women,
2]Americans abroad,
3]Americans on American soil.

in this order
1] Americans on American soil. More points with Ala...
2] U.S. Servicemen and women, more added points but not as high if not on american soil
3] Americans abroad, they were in the wrong place at the right time.. points but not getting any virgins...

rick I will respond to your post later...

Hog
jstiltner Offline
#7 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 11:05 AM EST
Joined: 01-09-2004
Posts: 116
I agree with you on that. One example would have been if there was an F-18 behind the plane heading towards the WTC knowing what was going to happen. Should you shoot it down or not? Do you sacrifice the lives of some to save the lives of many? I say push the button. If myself or any of my family members were on that plane that is what I would have said.
JonR Offline
#8 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 11:08 AM EST
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Yo Rick: Yes you have warned us in the past, I remember it as if it was just yesterday hmmm... " The sky's falling the sky's falling " ah yes I remember it well. Thankyou Rickalittle for refreshing my memory. JonR
CWFoster Offline
#9 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 11:25 AM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
Rick, Mr Komatsu was an AMERICAN of Japanese descent, dwelling in California, under US civil law when his rights were violated. You are comparing him to Arabs, Pakistanis, and Iranians, who have never set foot inside of the US, never been US citizens, and whose only intrest in the US has been to figure out how to attack and destroy her. Your comparison is a travesty!
HockeyDad Offline
#10 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 11:33 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,164
Rick,

You have not been warning us about the "Second American Taliban". That is what the article is about. It is not about the Patriot Act or John Ashcroft. It is about Yaser Hamdi.

The topic of the article is about a man born in Louisiana to Saudi Arabian parents who lived most of his life abroad and eventually was caught fighting with the Taliban in Afghanistan when he surrendered to the Northern Alliance. The question is, does he have rights as a US citizen, as a prisoner of war, or an illegal enemy combatant according to the Geneva Convention.

Your comment about history repeating itself would only be applicable if the US government was using the Patriot Act to round up Arabs and Muslims (not mutually exclusive terms) much as Americans of Japanese decent were round up during World War 2 and put in internment camps. This has not happened, therefore your comment is not applicable. It just so happens that the person the article talks about who is filing the brief on behalf of Yaser Hamdi was an American of Japanese decent who was imprisoned during World War 2. It just so happens that the article devotes most of the print to this individual's history, not the issue at hand for which he is filing the brief. Fred Korematsu's life story has no bearing on the issue at hand but it distracted you and tricked you into adding this to your "War on Republicans".

As I said before, did you read the article and what would your solution be to the problem?

Recap:

A US citizen was caught in Afghanistan fighting against the United States and the Northern Alliance.
Because he is a US citizen, should he still be held as a illegal enemy combatant, held as a prisoner of war, or charged in US criminal court with unlawful discharge of a firearm, a misdemenor? Presently, he is held as an illegal enemy combatant.

Are you offering a solution or spam?

On an unrelated note, "wait until all the people that are not in christian churches on sunday are shipped off to the concentration camps already built. where? do your own research, you won't believe me" is quite a scary thing to say. Black helicopters, X-Files....lock your doors, the government is coming for you. Were these concentration camps built during the Bush Administration or the Clinton Administration? Where are they and what appropriations bill funded them?
usahog Offline
#11 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 1:24 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Rick I have posted it before on topics about John Walker Lindsy's case on here when talked about

here look it up FACTS Verbaitum
http://firstgov.gov/Topics/Reference_Shelf.shtml#laws

and Citizenship US is lost when a person picks up arms against the United States.. Section #3 Read Read Read!!!!!! and that member loses his/her Citizenship meaning also they lose their rights under the United States Constitution... a combatent to the USA does not fall under the Genieva Convention rules and regs for coverage there of... Meaning word "Combatant" as in the case of the Al Quaida in the eye's of the world they were not fighting from a government rule.. they were just based in the War Torn Land of Afganistan/Africa and other parts of the world to house themselves and did not have a governing substantial governement.. (hope that makes sence) I'm a little upset at how stupid some really are and it's a frickin Shame!!!!!!

I am Damn Proud to know some of the Iron I loaded on Aircraft found their mark to shut down these **** who so much hate my Country!!!!!!

When my retirement date finally comes... I got some story's to tell!!!!!

Rick please save this site I gave you and do refrence the Facts on matters.. their all there in Black and White and even some with Color!!!!!!

Hog
usahog Offline
#12 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 1:34 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/terrorleg.htm

Another topic
Hog
usahog Offline
#13 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 1:34 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/terrorleg.htm

Another topic
Hog
usahog Offline
#14 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 1:35 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/terrorleg.htm

Another topic
Hog
Robby Offline
#15 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 2:31 PM EST
Joined: 10-30-2002
Posts: 5,067
" the people that are not in Christian churches on Sunday are shipped off to the concentration camps" Rick, are you attacking my religion?
pabloescabar Offline
#16 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 2:54 PM EST
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
JESUS IS LORD!
CWFoster Offline
#17 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 4:08 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
When my retirement date finally comes... I got some story's to tell!!!!!

Hog, when that day comes, I'll take some leave, we'll hit the Package store, or Class Six store, or whatever they call it on the nearest base, and I'll listen to your stories! (but you may hafta listen to a few of mine!) LOL
usahog Offline
#18 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 6:09 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
LOL Deal CW!!!!!!

Only we'll catch some local store and head to the KOA at Virgina Beach... kick a up a camp fire and sit around till they kick us off the lot LOL.. then we'll go crash Penzt's place and drag Tarheel with us LOL

Hog
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#19 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 11:22 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
00camper

when they came for the enemy combatants, i didn't cry out.

when they came for foriegn born american citizens, i didn't cry out.

when they came for the orientals, i didn't cry out.

when they came for the hispanics, i didn't cry out.

when they came for the blacks, i didn't cry out.

when they came for the mentally retarded, the sick, and the lame, i didn't cry out.

when they came for me, i cried out,


but there was no one to hear me.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#20 Posted: Thu, Feb 26 2004, 11:24 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
JonR

2 lines again.
Cavallo Offline
#21 Posted: Fri, Feb 27 2004, 3:23 AM EST
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
i've no sympathy for enemy combatants. none.

when one has PROVEN to be a traitor to this country by actively trying to kill its citizens, i'm of the "throw away the key" mindset. unapologetically.

now then -- (sorry, clive! not trying to hijack your herf -- just add my place on to the list of places to hit on the return trip!)

after you hit VA beach, head due south.

i've got 2 acres and two big ol' campfire pits (one in front, one on the back lot where folks camp out) with plenty of comfy seating, camping gear to accomodate 2 families' worth of folks (including air mattresses), a few steps to the house with 2 full "his and hers" bathrooms (and the "his" bathroom is "smoker friendly" and fully stocked with an ashtray, a mini cooler in the linen closet, and a magazine rack full of Field and Stream, Stuff, FHM, and Playboy -- for the articles!).

it's five minutes to wrightsville beach (where you can rent a kat or full sailboat) and invites are officially offered for anyone and everyone -- oh, and while there's a KOA five minutes north of here, i encourage you to save your money and spend it at one of 2 fine local cigar shops. :)
HockeyDad Offline
#22 Posted: Fri, Feb 27 2004, 4:04 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,164
Rick,

Are you crying out for Yaser Hamdi?

A US citizen was caught in Afghanistan fighting against the United States and the Northern Alliance.
Because he is a US citizen, should he still be held as a illegal enemy combatant, held as a prisoner of war, or charged in US criminal court with unlawful discharge of a firearm, a misdemenor? Presently, he is held as an illegal enemy combatant.

Are you offering a solution or spam?

...And where are those concentration camps?
00camper Offline
#23 Posted: Fri, Feb 27 2004, 8:02 AM EST
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
Where, oh RICKAMAVEN, do I begin?

People on the left are always complaining about government interference in their private lives and sounding an unnecessary alarm about the encroachment by government of the peoples' rights.

Lets take a look at the main example in your article, that of Japanese-Americans' internment during WWII. The facts are that Franklin Roosevelt, as President of the United States, took every action he thought necessary to win the war - including development of nuclear weapons. You need to focus on one fact about WWII, that the outcome of the war was far from certain. From the perspective of 60 years gone by we can say that Allied victory was a foregone conclusion, but at the time there was a very real fear that the Axis would prevail, leaving the U.S. alone in an otherwise hostile world.

Lets look at another example - that of Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War. Lincoln, as President of the United States, took every action he thought necessary to win the war - including suspension of habeas corpus. From the perspective of more than 130 years gone by we can say that a Union victory was a foregone conclusion, but at the time there was a very real possibility that Lee would push north and capture Washington, ending the war and sundering the Union.

Today, from the perspective of history, both Lincoln and Roosevelt are revered as men who led our nation through difficulties unforseen by the founding fathers, creating unlimited opportunities for future generations.

I know that your first response is going to be that George W. Bush is no Lincoln or Roosevelt, and that may be true. However, George W. Bush, as President of the United States, is taking every action he thinks is necessary to win the war against fanatics bent on destroying our country. Just like the Civil War and WWII, the outcome if this war is uncertain. Winning the war is the most important thing of all. I, for one, am glad that George W. Bush is willing to do whatever is necessary to win the war against terrorists so that future generations - my very own children - will have the same opportunity to live without fear.
CWFoster Offline
#24 Posted: Fri, Feb 27 2004, 8:03 AM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
Hafta drag Patman into this deal, and HarleyRed
CWFoster Offline
#25 Posted: Fri, Feb 27 2004, 8:10 AM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
How about Cav's idea Hog, Have Herf will travel, wire Padron, San Luis Rey

LMAO! It'ld be fun, but Cav, Are you sure you wanna sit through all those War stories, and Sea stories? LOL
JonR Offline
#26 Posted: Fri, Feb 27 2004, 8:15 AM EST
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
And they came for the whining liberals...And everyone cried out: " What took you so long " and helped load the liberals onto the trucks. JonR
DrMaddVibe Offline
#27 Posted: Fri, Feb 27 2004, 8:23 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,513
Camper, thanks for saying what had to be said.

I hope these mamby-pamby limp wristed socialists have to think about that when they look at their kids across the dinner table. "Is the world safer?", "Will my son be drafted because we didn't take the "head off of the snake" when we had the chance?","How do I withold my resentment towards a political party and do what's right?"

Instead of the "Give it to the UN to fight for us" Kerry or the "Gosh,golly shucks, I'm the son of a poor sharecropper" Edwards perhaps people ought to really look at what damage these people would do if Bush doesn't see this through.
CWFoster Offline
#28 Posted: Fri, Feb 27 2004, 10:47 AM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
I try REAL hard not to let my mind go to places like that DMV!
Charlie Offline
#29 Posted: Fri, Feb 27 2004, 11:19 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Sure Rick, let all the terrorist move about freely and enjoy our freedoms until they decide to pull another 9/11 or blow up a resovior or something! You liberal left folks never give up on your cries of wolf!

Charlie
00camper Offline
#30 Posted: Sat, Feb 28 2004, 4:29 AM EST
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
Come on RICK. I thought your post to me was an opportunity to debate the issue. I posted a response based on historically verifiable information, using both a Republican and a Democrat as my precedent setting examples. Is you silence an admission that I - someone on the political right - am thinking correctly on this issue?
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#31 Posted: Sat, Feb 28 2004, 7:49 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
00camper

no, you just got up earlier then i did. you probably live in a time zone east of me and if you sleep in on a saturday till 10:00 it's still only 7:00 here and i am probably getting ready to go to sleep for the day.

i am working on your answer as we speak.
rayder1 Offline
#32 Posted: Sat, Feb 28 2004, 7:50 AM EST
Joined: 06-02-2002
Posts: 2,226
Rick, do you have a bunker under your house?
A man should spend his life living it than worrying about the world. I don't see a mass roundup of citizens such as WWII.
As a matter of fact your little "when they came for..." thing is so stinking alarmist and out of line it is ridiculous.

If you feel so scared, maybe you should start using that bunker now Rick, or get one dug.

You have no idea how many of us on Cbid are really government spies. You have shown us pictures of your house and have given many ways to find you.

You might be watched and bugged right now.

You might have already been targeted as an insurgent and a laser sight is focused on your temple right now.

You may want to wear a foil hat because laser beams are pointed at you to read your thoughts.

Doesn't all that sound absurd? Just about as absurd as your alarmist worries. Yeah I'm not "crying out". I'm too busy making sure my children are busy, happy, well fed and educated to move on in life and provide a future for themselves.

Many of the sources you cite in your various ramblings are such extremist sources they wouldn't even be allowed to exist in 90% of the world. Just the fact alone that they exist here gives me faith that our country has not infringed upon our rights. The FIRST thing to disappear would be all the media sources you get your information from Rick...not you or your neighbors.
If there is a wholesale trend towards limiting a citizen's rights, the very first thing on the list of targets is their (your, Rick) source of communication and information.

As long as you can read the village voice, Globe. US World News etc. there's nothing to worry about.
00camper Offline
#33 Posted: Sat, Feb 28 2004, 7:51 AM EST
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
RICK,
I didn't mean to wake you. Take your time. I'll be here.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#34 Posted: Sat, Feb 28 2004, 6:09 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
rayder1

you might better direct your questions to the administration that constantly warns us about terrorists.

the foil sounds like a good idea.
CWFoster Offline
#35 Posted: Sat, Feb 28 2004, 7:35 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
OK Rick! first the Bush administration was lax and negligent because they didn't wrap up Osama Bin Laden in his first few months in ffice, never mind that evidence points out that 9/11 had been in the planning for 5 YEARS and Slick Willie never did anything, even as simple as send someone to the Sudan to take delivery of him when the Sudanese offered to turn him over!, /Now that the administration is aggressively persuing any and all possible leads to head off another attack, you ridicule him for his "constant terrorist warnings"! Admit it, if George W. Bush walked on water, and raised the dead, you would STILL find fault with him, and try to undermine everything he says, does, or represents! You never even gave him a chance, and you want to tear down what is, but offer no viable suggestions as to what would be better to replace it. That's weak! That's seriously childish, and I thought you were better than that.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#36 Posted: Sat, Feb 28 2004, 10:17 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
CWFoster

"walked on water" what a strange analogy.

you could have said if he balanced the budget.

you could have said if he insisted and lobbyed the congress to extended unemployment benifits as he did to get that faugh medicare prescription drug benifit, that screwed older people.

you could have said if he could absolutely, positively proved he isn't still awol.

but you chose "walk on water." doesn't that fit right in with his claim that he was selected by god to lead us, or words that implied that.
Cavallo Offline
#37 Posted: Sat, Feb 28 2004, 11:01 PM EST
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
rayder1: i have to say this -- rick's "they came for" thing is not paranoid rambling. it's a truthful statemetn (the original anyway) that already happend. it was said by a lutheran minister in nazi germany -- every line of it truthfully what DID happen.

just in case anyone's not familiar with pastor niehmoeller's (sp?) words and the origins of that statement -- i don't know if you were insinuating that such thinking is fantasy or not, but i wanted to just clarify the origins.

CWF: are you kidding me? i listend to my dad's WWII stories for, oh, let's say 20 years of cognizant ability (discounting the years of my early youth and babyhood and the years following his death). 20 years of war stories -- and he was a marine, so those are both land and sea stories! lol nah, i kind of miss a good war/sea story. dad's been gone... on march 15 it'll be 10 years. (RIP corporal!) my old barber was in the navy in WWII and told some amazing stories while giving me my standard buzzcut. blows me away what some of these guys went through -- my barber was in midway.

so long as i've got a good cigar in one hand, a beverage in the other and my ultra comfy King Of The Campfire chair under me, i'm good to go! bring on the ribald tales, ye herfin' warriors! :) i'll provide the burgers and dogs; you provide the bull. :)
00camper Offline
#38 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 8:34 AM EST
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
Well, RICK, another day has come and gone without a response from you about Lincoln and Roosevelt and the things they did to win wars. I was really hoping for a good debate on this subject. No name calling, just an honest exchange of views.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#39 Posted: Sun, Feb 29 2004, 10:35 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
00camper

i have about half of my response completed. i did interrupt my responsibility to the board yesterday. i had to finish a trellis i am making out of pvc pipe, remove a few fluorescent fixtures in the rumpus room and replace them with electric boxes and sockets for bulbs. i will never again buy any on sale fluorescent fixtures, the starters stink.

i had to add some wood to the trellis because the passion flowers won't grip the pvc. enjoy this link. you have to start it to watch something very interesting. if you have kids, they will enjoy it also. i am posting it for you first.

http://sunflower.bio.indiana.edu/~rhangart/plantmotion/flowers/passionflower/passion.html

an eclectic with a short attention span tends to confuse people. toby has adjusted well after treatment, and now ignores me.

i won't forget you.



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