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Last post 20 years ago by billyjackson. 27 replies replies.
The Complete Idiot's Guide to the Life of Christ
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Author: William R. Grimbol

1/3 of the way through the book and i have ordered half dozen to give to my friends who have an interest in the life of christ. the best information i have been able to find in many years of searching.

before anyone shoots his mouth off and starts throwing garbage at me, be best if you learned something about the book.
usahog Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Rick, I can onlyh say two things..

1 there is only one true book about the life of Christ..

2. if this mans views lead you any closer to learning about christ then I would also like to read it...

Hog

oh and PS. God Bless because I myself see a major change in your heart and I think you and I both know where this came from.. it will just take some time for ajustments... been a few yrs...


RICKAMAVEN Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
usahog

let me know when you finish "johhn got his gun" and let me know what you think about it.

one of the copies of this newer book has been earmarked for you when i bought it.

i have always been interested in the life of christ, not as a son of god, but because of his views and the price he was willing to pay for them. this book is secular, written by a pastor, with a forward by desmond tutu, who said in essence, i wish i had read this book earlier in my life, or words to that effect.

please don't look for me to becoming born again. i can more respect a man that doesn't expect to be resurrected and is still willing to pay the price.
poprocz Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 12-10-2003
Posts: 273
Let he who is with out sin cast the first stone.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
poprocz

i'm sorry but i don't understand your post.
bud451 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 09-11-2010
Posts: 2,237
Just a minor correction Rick. If you don't believe Christ was the son of God then you should refer to him as Jesus. Christ means son of God and Jesus was his human name.

Sorry for being picky
DrMaddVibe Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
Rick, I encourage you to also read up on the noted historian Jocephus. At the time his books were more widly distributed than the Bible. He notes that Jesus was Christ, that he performed extrordinary miracles and did rise from the dead after his crucification. This man was a Roman and was an honorable man. His works are an eyewitness account from the time that Jesus walked the earth.

This is from my pastor's sermon from last Sunday...

The Bibliographical Test:
This is the process whereby a scholar evaluates all the current copies of a document to test them for
consistency. If you have one copy that let’s say is 500 years old and a newer copy that is only 100
years old, you would compare the newer document to the older one to see if there were any changes. Historians always consider the oldest copy as the most reliable source because it was written or copied closer to the original texts.

Author Book Date Earliest Time Gap # of copies
Written Copies

Homer Iliad 800 B.C. c.400 B.C. c.400 yrs 643
Herodotus History 480-425 B.C. c. A.D. 900 c. 1,350 yrs 8
Thucydides History 460-400 B.C. c. A.D. 900 c. 1,300 yrs 8
Plato 400 B.C. c. A.D. 900 c. 1,300 yrs 7
Demosthenes 300 B.C. c. A.D. 1100 c. 1,400 yrs 200
Caesar Gallic
Wars 100-44 B.C. c. A.D. 900 c. 1,000 yrs 10
Livy History of
Rome 59 B.C.-A.D. 17 4th cent. (partial) c. 400 yrs 1
mostly 10th cent. c. 1,000 yrs 19
Tacitus Annals A.D. 100 c. A.D. 1100 c. 1,000 yrs 20
Pliny Secundus Natural
History A.D. 61-113 c. A.D. 850 c. 750 yrs 7
________________________________________________________________________________
New Testament A.D. 50-100 c. 114 (fragment) +50 yrs 5366
c. 200 (books) 100 yrs
c. 250 (most of NT) 150 yrs
c. 325 (complete NT) 225 yrs

If this doesn't come out right and you're looking for the info...email me and I'll send you the link...

buccfever TA OOHAY TOD MOC

I guess what strikes me the most is that the work of Plato is widely accepted as true and accurate, but the proof to document them is harder to prove than the New Testament. It also wasn't written by eyewitness accounts or in a timely manner(anyone ever play the Telephone Game?).
00camper Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
Well said, DrMaddVibe.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
bud451

more to learn. i understand jesus was his first name. the name christ is the recognition of him as the son of god, the messiah.

why is the name christ used to define jesus as the messiah. i don't remember that word in the old testament that the "christ" is coming. and do you know his family name, his last name.
00camper Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
From Dictionary.com:

[Middle English Crist, from Old English Crst, from Latin Chrstus, from Greek Khrstos, from khrstos, anointed, verbal adj. of khrein, to anoint. See ghri- in Indo-European Roots.]
00camper Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
Sorry, none of the letter "i" copied properly:

[Middle English Crist, from Old English Crist, from Latin Christus, from Greek Khristos, from khristos, anointed, verbal adj. of khrein, to anoint. See ghre- in Indo-European Roots.]
JonR Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Hmmm...JonR

"didn't you once say you didn't believe in God because his existence wasn't proven to you"

never said that or even thought that. go back and reread. i said the subject of a god has no interest to me at all. what it has for you or others is not my business unless you try to influence me unduly. Hmmm... are you now trying to influence us unduly? JonR
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
JonR

2 paragraphs. your making progress

try to stay in the lines. i know the tension makes your hands shake, but little by little and with you meds, that will improve.

that's enough for now. go play with the others.
dbguru Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
A few comments and then a link which really goes into depth on differences in perpesctive on this topic. If your stance is that the only source of understanding is absolute faith in the writings of the New Testament, then you are closed to understanding why the controversy exists. Unfortunatly this closed minded attitude has proven to be a seed for the sin of ate over the centuries. However if the opportunity to gain wisdom though understanding why others feel differently is something you'd like to embrace then consider reading on.

I'm not going to comment on Mel's movie because I haven't seen it. But I am a Jewish person who has done considerable study of the New Testament both in many denominations of Christian venues and Reform Jewish venues as well. The conclusion that I reach in studying the New Testament from a Jewish background and upringing was that the New Testament was written to build and promote Christianity to a predominantly non-Jewish, Roman, Greek and Egyptian audience. The New Testamant is not represented by the majority of Christian denominations as a document with pure historical intentions. Of course I'm aware that those of you who take a fundamentalist approach to Cristianity will claim the New Testament is history. On that point we will always disagree. But hopefully you are open minded enough to appreciate the difference and respect it as it is essential to your own befiefs.

Most historians and theologians in many Judeo Christian faiths understand the Christian effort both to avoid 1st and 2nd century Roman persecution and attract Roman citizens. This agenda is evidenced in a non historical slant in the New Testament's portrayal of Romans, most noticably Pilate in the documentation of the death of Jesus. There are inconsistencies that are notable, but the main one is that Pilate was documented historically to be a nasty tyrant who had absolute power in Judea and was know to instigate the Jewish people (placing Roman idols and statues in the Temple) to later slaughter them while protesting to send messages who was the boss. He was anything but a merciful, benevolent governer as the New Tesatment portrays. This is well documented in the writings of Josephus and in recollections in early Common era Jewish texts. Other inconsistencies involve how Jesus was welcomed warmly into Jerusalem by huge crowds of Jews only to have those huge crowds turn on him in a matter of days. This massive change of heart is also considered by most theological historians as highly unlikely.

My main point is, as the gospels in The New Testament were written 50-100 years after events occurred, it can plainly be seen to be written in a way that would not offend Roman govenrment or instigate Roman terror against Christian believers. The Jews were very difficult subjects in the Roman empire. Prevailing Roman attitudes were very negative to both Jews and Christians early on. But Christians decided that separation from Judaism was essential for survival. Deflecting blame onto Jews was another survival strategy intstitutionalized in the New Testament along with this separation. Essentially from early on the conclusion to many situations have taken there cue from the portayal of the Passion which is, "It wasn't us, it was those unruly Jews that were the source of all trouble." This is a major tragedy of human history woven into the stories of the New Testament and for the last 1,900 years that have caused much suffering and death among the Jews. And regardless of your faith, you should always be sensitive to that. If your focus is on what Jesus said in his life then you focus on ideas that are Jewish ideas that we all agree on. On the story of his death, please be sensitive to our differences and try to understand.

For more details please I would ask that you read this Jewish perspective which I think you will find most illuminating.

http://www.geocities.com/returningtofaithofjesus/dejudazing_jesus.htm

Cavallo Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
rick: when you're done reading it, if you could shoot me a copy of it, i will read it and return it to you in short order and good condition (gotta respect da books, yo!).

i've studied the bible (OT and NT, but especially NT) for years. gotta be 2 decades now. the OT is something i intend to delve into more, something my (practicing conservative jewish) wife can share with her (jewish by bloodline, practicing christian) husband.

she was raised a conservative jew and attended jewish schools until she went to college (cornell); what she knows about the life of christ is minimal. this sounds like a book that we could read together as we also can read the OT (as my faith calls it).

we do read together, literally. i have to spend a good deal of time in bed or at least horizontally while elevating my left leg. so we've taken to reading aloud together -- books, stories, poetry, whatever. i'd definitely be interested in checking this one out (let me see if it's in my local library, though). i'd be glad to give you a christian's opinion about it. i'd be interested in hearing a jew's thoughts on it as well.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Cavallo

i have a label ready to mail to you.
JonR Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Yo Rick: I'm going to overlook that snide reply of yours and just chalk it up to the fact that you dropped a load in your Depends and had no spares to change. You see Rick I actually feel sorry for you, you can't even remember what you post. What's next, will you be handing out literature about Krishna. Rick don't blame yourself for becoming senile, **** happens...ooops but you already know that. JonR
billyjackson Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 2,860
Rick,

I'm a very disgruntled former seminary student who is still very much into the study of Christianity but not into the traditional things that have marred it. Glad to see you are reading the book...not because I want you to get "saved" but because I think it is a subject full of passion from both sides. Drop me a line if you want to chat on it.

mrbillyjackson
hotmail
scottbushey Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2003
Posts: 148
Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Tim 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
00camper Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
Amen, scottbushey! Perfect quotes.
JonR Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
; P )
JonR Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
*
[email protected] Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 9,719
Rick,

... I thought you were an athiest ....?
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
[email protected]

no, i am not an athiest. an athiest is someone that does not believe in a god. i have no interest in the idea of a god one way or the other. my life is not affected by the subject of a god.

i am interested in the life of jesus because he did leave an impression on the world and the subject about his life always had interet to me. he was the original liberal and was willing to die for his beliefs that people should be kinder to each other then they were. i happen to believe that too, i found this very fascinating secular book and i am enjoying the read.

i have 2 kaminskl book waiting to be read.
[email protected] Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 9,719
Rick -

... then who do you talk to during sex?
Cavallo Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
thanks, rick, and good for you for seeking to know more about christ.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
[email protected]

prior to my marriage, anyone who would listen.

since my marriage, i talk to toby.

if you were looking for "oh god", sorry to disappoint you.
billyjackson Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 2,860
Rick,

Jesus a LIBERAL?!!! You kiddin me?

Joking...

Actually you are correct. Makes it pretty damn funny that most "Christians" that get any kind of public forum are conservative to rabid. (Unless you count Jesse and Al)

Keep readin'.
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