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IF I ONLY BELIEVED IN PRAYER
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RICKAMAVEN Offline
#1 Posted: Sat, Mar 6 2004, 8:50 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
i could pray for a very slow and painful recovery and a retirement from public diservice. is god punishing him for his evil ways? one of you guys ask him.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=542&u=/ap/20040306/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/ashcroft_hospitalized_17&printer=1
HockeyDad Offline
#2 Posted: Sat, Mar 6 2004, 9:17 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,160
Now where is that 10 foot pole I had the other day...
CWFoster Offline
#3 Posted: Sat, Mar 6 2004, 9:26 AM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
I wouldn't even use a ten foot pole!
00camper Offline
#4 Posted: Sat, Mar 6 2004, 9:37 AM EST
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
Come on, RICK. You aren't really that mean a person, are you? When you say things like that you sound like the Taliban leaders or Osama himself.
JonR Offline
#5 Posted: Sat, Mar 6 2004, 10:06 AM EST
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Isn't it funny how some people who say they have no interest or belief in religion use the word God when it suits them. Extra nasty today Rick, run out of adult diapers. JonR
JonR Offline
#6 Posted: Sat, Mar 6 2004, 5:16 PM EST
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Yo rick: Looks like your getting your wish, you sick f**k. JonR
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#7 Posted: Sat, Mar 6 2004, 5:49 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
00camper

strange comparison. why not jack the ripper, or ted bundy, or atila the hun.

no i am not mean, and this is very unusual for me,
but this is a bad man.

who or what is this JonR that posted 2 thoughts after yours?

i am working on your answer.
donutboy2000 Offline
#8 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 8:39 AM EST
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
Is God punishing your wife and kids when they get sick?
00camper Offline
#9 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 9:22 AM EST
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
RICK,
John Ashcroft is only doing his job. If you are not planning the violent overthrow of U.S. Government, or the commission of felonies, you have nothing to fear from the Patriot Act and Mr. Ashcroft.

Jack the Ripper, Ted Bundy and Atilla the Hun aren't enemies of the United States of America. The Taliban and Osama are, and each of them claims God is punishing the USA for her misdeeds. That's why I used that comparison.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#10 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 10:45 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
00camper

the man is a fanatic.

why is the justice dept demanding personal medical records of women who have had an abortion? religious fanatisism.
00camper Offline
#11 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 10:55 AM EST
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
RICK,
Huh?
usahog Offline
#12 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 11:56 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
"why is the justice dept demanding personal medical records of women who have had an abortion?"

Rick I do not know what the justice department is demanding, but I do know the hippa law act and privacy act laws of 1974 and their extensions... there is no way this information can be given up without the consent of the individual and for them to demand this would be allot of red tape in the courts...You sir, need to quit reading them missleading fanatical websites and stay away from them stupid ass gloom and doom folks litriture you keep leaning back to.. they got you brainwashed like some satanic cult....

Hog
Cavallo Offline
#13 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 12:46 PM EST
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
first off, i don't buy "if you're not guilty of a crime, then you've nothing to worry about" in ANY branch of law enforcement. i know too many innocent people who've taken it arsewise -- ask richard jewell.

rick: can you not see the human being behind the position? hate his politics if you like, yes, but consider that "man's inhumanity to man" doesn't take place one sided. anyone who keeps the hate of human beings rolling is guilty of participation. just a thought, sir.
bloody spaniard Offline
#14 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 1:44 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Rick is a master at manipulating human emotion. He would make an excellent Minister of Propaganda in a number of countries.

I think that Fiji has erected a statue of him where the bare- breasted women worship at his feet.
CWFoster Offline
#15 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 1:48 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
Can't you just feel the love pouring forth out of the compassionate liberal hearts! SO much kinder than those heartless conservative swine who consider a tax increase for the wealthy to subsidize a tax credit for those who don't even pay taxes to simply be communistic redistribution of wealth! I am NOT worthy of such dynamic examples of brotherly love and concern!
JonR Offline
#16 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 2:14 PM EST
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Yo bloody spaniard: Bagdad had Bob.. C-Bid has Rick, like they say in Okinawan " same-o..same-o. JonR
bloody spaniard Offline
#17 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 2:20 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
CW, there's an old saying that "Liberals love mankind, it's just people they can't stand"!

I don't think that Rick is as "liberal" as people purport him to be.

Hey brother, when are you gonna stop by the DC area so we can herf? You're a firecracker!

blood (I like that better than "bs"- thanks!) ;>)
bloody spaniard Offline
#18 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 2:24 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
JonR, you're another one I'd like to drink with... There's no "gray" with you guys!
;)

blood

PS: Boy, do I feel gay making those smiley faces. I wish there was another way to communicate sentiment.
pabloescabar Offline
#19 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 3:35 PM EST
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
there is but the site wont let you put them up , I tryed.
CWFoster Offline
#20 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 3:55 PM EST
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
Yo! Blood, you goin' ta try the Cigar Fest thingie?
bloody spaniard Offline
#21 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 4:12 PM EST
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
CW, drop me an e-mail:
mdi at maranatha dot net
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#22 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 4:32 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
usahog

does that mean i can't kill a goat tonight?
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#23 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 4:39 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
00camper

huh? to what. the seaking of personal medical records, or the he is a fanatic.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#24 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 4:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
usahog

the question is not will the injustice department get the records, but why are they asking for them.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A35155-2004Mar5?language=printer

i know any source i quote will be disavowed (mission impossible)but that is the easy way out.
428cj Offline
#25 Posted: Sun, Mar 7 2004, 6:50 PM EST
Joined: 04-26-2003
Posts: 741
Wow, how ironic. Mr Maven, you had the audacity to write of someone else in a negative way "the man is a fanatic". Too funny.

And you wished you prayed so you could pray for pain on another. Your lack of maturity just keeps getting more and more clear. Wow.
billyjackson Offline
#26 Posted: Mon, Mar 8 2004, 7:01 PM EST
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 2,860
Gotta luv the 1st Amd....

Let's Rick say something and let's others turn around and tell him why he shouldn't say it.

Can't decide if that's American or unAmerican.

Ah...what the hell do I know...I haven't voted since Clinton beat Daddy Bush.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#27 Posted: Mon, Mar 8 2004, 10:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
428cj

i did wish him a recovery.
00camper Offline
#28 Posted: Tue, Mar 9 2004, 5:49 AM EST
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
RICK,
I read the link. The link is from a legitimate news source. Justice Department lawyers were seeking information to prepare for a case, nothing more and nothing less. Governmenbt lawyers (local, state and federal) ask for private information to prepare for cases all the time and it never makes news. Sometimes judges say yes and sometimes they say no, depending on the kind of information and why the lawyers say they want it, and this also never makes news.

If you changed the word "dental" for the word "abortion" and the case was about a law to set standards for the tensile strength of braces we wouldn't be talking about it right now.

In your view from the left you see John Ashcroft as a fanatic bent on, among other things, ending abortion on demand at any cost. More than 40 years ago people from the south viewed Robert Kennedy as a fanatic bent on, among other things, ending segregation. Forty years have come and gone and today the vast majority of Americans (including myself) believe that Robert Kennedy was right to insist on using the power of the federal government to end segregationism.

The end of abortion on demand is an inevitable outcome of the process of assigning protective rights to classes of people. I can hear the screaming now. "But a fetus isn't a person," you and others will shout. You can scream it from rooftops from coast to coast if you want, but the beginning of the end to abortion on demand in the United States was the day when Rosa Parks said "no."
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#29 Posted: Tue, Mar 9 2004, 6:33 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
00camper

"If you changed the word "dental" for the word "abortion" and the case was about a law to set standards for the tensile strength of braces we wouldn't be talking about it right now."

ay, there's the rub.

we are not talking about dental and the justice department, that as i recall was run by some fellow named meese, who left office with a scandel, republicans they are a funny group, doesn't appear to be interested in the quality of the surgeries performed, they are going to tryto overturn roe vs wade by any means possible as long this mad man is in charge.

i, personally, do not like the idea of aborting a fetus that could ultimately become a child. fortunately i have not had to face the issue. i do recall my mother had an abortion when she was in her mid or late 40's. that would be sometime in the 1950's.

at that time abortions were caried out one of three ways. if you were wealthy, you flew to puerto rico. if you were middle class and had a close relationship with your doctor, he performed a D and C.
if you were poor you went to some "back alley" person and in more cases then not died of bleeding or infection, or you used a coat hanger.

you are, in spite of any protest you may mount, dealing with the issue of abortion from a religious viewpoint, and that is my biggest bone of contention with all religious groups. they all want everyone else to believe as they do and follow their rules.

that is why people of my "faith", and i don't mean jewish, but people not influenced by doctrine, can form their belief system based on their own morality and intellect.

and we do not get the rewards of an afterlife for living a decent, respectful life, treating others with respect and dignity, when they deserve it.

why does the religious middle of the road and right fight abortion and want to kill murderers instead of locking them in cages for the rest of their lives.

it is dogma flying in the face of reality and, if not checked, the most popular dogma wins the election and one of the tenants of a democracy, protect the rights of the minority, disppears.
00camper Offline
#30 Posted: Tue, Mar 9 2004, 7:51 AM EST
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
RICK,
Abortion on demand will end in America and it won't be the result of religious lobbying. The Supreme Court will strike down Roe v. Wade because of medical evidence that a fetus is a person. The Supreme Court will further state that as long as the mother is within U.S. borders the Constitution applies to the fetus as surely as it does to the rest of us.

Current medical technology cannot prove this because instruments are not sensitive enough, but the advance of technology will inevitably prove that fetuses are people. This is not a religious argument, but a scientific one.

One other point.
Abortion in 21st century America is a means of birth control and has no other medical function. The left has cast the abortion debate as being about the woman's right to choose. However, abortion is about convenience and absolving people of responsibility for their actions. Pregnant women can carry their babies to full term and surrender them for adoption by infertile couples who desperately want children. But doing that would be inconvenient. The mother would need to alter her lifestyle, especially in the last months of the pregnancy, and we wouldn't want to ask anybody to do something like that now would we?

Sylance Offline
#31 Posted: Tue, Mar 9 2004, 8:14 AM EST
Joined: 06-19-2003
Posts: 592
00camper,

Very nicely said. Although I believe that luminously the child is a human being right from conception, I whole heartedly agree with your statements about responsibility as well. America is drifting closer and closer to a consequence free lifestyle. For instance:

You get fat from eating like a pig – get liposuction
You have lung cancer from smoking 3 packs a day – sue tobacco industry
You get drunk and drive off a cliff – sue the bar
You want sex but can’t bother yourself with protection – get an abortion

Now before everyone screams and rants about rape, incest and mother endangerment… I’d like to see a statistic about the proportion of each vs. abortion as a means of birth control. I believe that was the government’s goal with its recent inquiry, but now everyone is screaming privacy rights, when in fact no personal identification information was asked for. Go figure…

As a side note: It appears the only time we want consequences for someone’s action is if they promote Christianity.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#32 Posted: Tue, Mar 9 2004, 9:04 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Sylance

"I believe that luminously the child is a human being right from conception"

ok, i have no problem with your belief.

how about my belief? life begins at the moment the fetus becomes a child and breathes on it's own and is no more dependent upon it's mother for it's life.
do you have a problem with my belief?

the word luminously doesn't seem to mean anything in the sentence.

"I believe that was the government’s goal with its recent inquiry." i believe you are naive and while that is charming, in and of itself, it doesn't allow peripheral vision.

00camper Offline
#33 Posted: Wed, Mar 10 2004, 4:28 AM EST
Joined: 07-11-2003
Posts: 2,326
RICK writes,
"life begins at the moment the fetus becomes a child and breathes on it's own and is no more dependent upon it's mother for it's life. "

To quote further,
"ay, there's the rub"

A baby is dependent on someone for life-sustaining care even after being born. If you can say a baby isn't a person just because it depends on outside life support then you can also say that those in comas aren't people because they are in the same situation.

What about the following groups:

Brain injury patients?
Alzheimers patients?
The frail elders in nursing homes?
Diabetics?
Dialysis patients?
Burn victims?
Stroke patients?
Physical therapy patients?
Paraplegics?
Cerebral palsy victims?
Spina Bifida survivors?
People with Cystic Fibrosis?

People in each of these groups depend on life support from someone else. Are you saying that their families should have the right to kill them since they cannot survive on their own?
JonR Offline
#34 Posted: Sun, Mar 14 2004, 1:07 PM EST
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
; P )
JonR Offline
#35 Posted: Sun, Mar 14 2004, 1:40 PM EST
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
*
TinMan51 Offline
#36 Posted: Mon, Mar 15 2004, 7:05 AM EST
Joined: 03-06-2003
Posts: 725
I know I should more than likely leave this posting and pretend I have never seen it.. I almost never get involved in a discussion about this topic but after reading every one's post on this matter I do have a nagging question, but 1st some thing about me. I'm a retiered Police officer and Corrections Officer I have served My Country and my State and My city for over 30 years. I did this because I believed in every persons right to live safely and be able to live in as free of a country as possible. I have devoted most of my adult life to protecting and serving others and I have been in the S*it many times to do that job. So I know it isn't worth much but here is what I feel after dealing with many people this subject has touched in the past..
I read what every one has to say here about this matter and though I'm not 100% sure I think that a major part of the people talking are men..Now being a man myself I have had to look at and deal with the Female look at this matter more than once in my life time.. First How free are we if we can not make a choice on what we do to our own bodies?? I know you say some thing growing inside a woman is a body also, but that body with out the mother would not and could not exist. So the ultimate decision should be up to the woman who has responceability for her body. Now I'm NOT saying that the law should say that any one should or could have the right with out a vaild reason to terminate a life with in them. But I am saying that there ARE good reasons out there for some woman to be ablr to have that choice if they want it. We can all sit here and say that things shouldn't be this way or that especially when some of those things don't inculd us or could never include us, like being raped and then being forced to carry the results of that rape for 9 months. Now as the Ones that do the raping in most cases it's easy to say YES you must carry it. But is that really freedom for the woman?? NO Man will ever really know the feelings that a woman goes through and lives with the rest of here life after some thing like this , you can't because you can't be inside of her and feel it. You have NO idea what it does to their very thought process and inter life. Sure it is sad to hear of some one paying to have a baby terminated to that there is NO doubt. But in justified cases that baby would never have been there to start with, it was NOT the woman's choice. Now you all say a woman has a choice as to giving herself to a man or not which is true but when a man takes that choice away from her and then leaves her with a life of never forgetting and having the results of that action growing inside her for 9 months , it's NOT right for the woman. Granted there are woman out there that would raise a child from some thing like that and I have the Most admiration for them of any one, but not all women are the same. Just as all men aren't the same. Not all men are rapeists bu there are some who are. And So many people want to tell a woman that she HAS TO live with it the rest of her life like it or NOT. To me that is not Right. In instances like that there should be help there for the woman to make a choide that is best for her not for ME or You or Any one else what is best for her..Many states have a law giving the right to surviors to pull the plug in certain cases, thats taking a life. A police officer has a legal right to take a life under strict guid lines. We go into wars which any person with a speck of sences knows is going to take lives. Shoot our goverment makes that choice and starts putting our son's and daughters in the line of fire but thats okay because it is suppose to be for the greater good. When in fact it is for what some one else thinks the greater good is. Not every one thinks it's right to fight wars, and that's their right to think that way. I don't say I agree with killing because unless there is a very good reason that I myself can justify enough to make me comfortable with it then I think it is wrong. But I had to make that choice many times in my life while serving this country and then the field I chose to follow but that was MY choice Not some one else's.. I put my life on the line many times because I belive every one has a right to make choices for them selves and I one of millions help give every one that right. To me the basic right over my life and my body out weights what some one else may want to make themselves feel good or right with their higher power. I don't feel we have the right to tell some one that like it or not you are going to carry that growth inside you and it doesn't matter how it got there. We all have to answer for our actions in one way or another no matter how we think , life it's self will sooner or later either justifiy our actions or make us pay for them. I don not feel that any action goes by with out us having to atone for it in one way or another , good or bad.. We should NOT tell a victim that they just have to live with what was done to them like it or not, but we should offer all and every type of help to that person inorder for them to hopefully make the right choice for them Not for ME or You or any one else but for them.. Thats what I gave my life of serving for so people would have the freedom the basic right to say what they want to say and to live the way they want to so long as it doesn't infringe on any one else. If a woman makes the choice to terminate a fetus then there are only 3 places that she should be answerable to ,1. Herself / 2. Her higher power./
3. The person whom deposited the seed, and only if it were deposited by her legally acknowedged partner NOT by an Intruder...So I think we should toughen up and or inforce the laws we have to protect women before we can start thinking about making them do some thing against their will....I'm sure I didn't get the point across that goes on in my head every time I hear about this and I could go on and quote many issues and times I have seen the System do unjust wrongs to woman placed into this spot because until you live through some thing like that you will never be able to know what you are really talking about. The [plain and simple fact is where will we stop when telling people what they can or can not do when it comes to their own self and what they feel is their own wellfare.?? Sorry to ruffle some feather which I know this rambling has done but I just don't feel it is fair to force some thing on some one that doesn't affect us but only the person living the matter...I live in Pain that most people can't even imange every day, I am on Medication that would make most people pass out with in a short time of taking it and be out for days but My system is use to it now after 2 years of it. There are days that I can't walk and there are days that the tears never stop from the pain. Doctors want to cut but it won't help the pain so do we pass a law to make those like me get cut on or leave the choice to us.?? We are the ones that suffer and those close to us we have a right to make a choice if we are kept alive by machine if some thing happens to us (DNR) we do have that right over our lives but do we take it all away so the Doctors and Hospitials and the goverment can take every last piece of diginty away from us. I Don't think so thats NOT what I gave so much of my Life for.. I gave it for people like Rickmaven and usa hog and so many others can say and believe and live the life they want to for them. I did this as so many others others before me and after me have and are doing so we all have the right to make choices for US not for the person next door. This country is all about CHOICE right or wrong it is ours to make.. Sorry about being so long winded.. No Need to make a big deal out of this post it is what I Think and Feel and I have that right at least the last time I looked I did. TinMan
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#37 Posted: Mon, Mar 15 2004, 7:26 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
TinMan51

i do not know what causes the pain you suffer with and i am deeply sorry you have to go through it.

you are not long winded and i read your post completely.

i believe you are one of the rare men of class and understanding of life. i am proud to have heard you and i am proud to thank you.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#38 Posted: Mon, Mar 15 2004, 7:36 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
http://www.lifenews.com/nat378.html
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#39 Posted: Mon, Mar 15 2004, 5:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
DMV

we all make decisions we regret. mine was selling 1000 shares of stock at $13.00 because it was dorment. within 4 years it split twice and went to $75.00.
[email protected] Offline
#40 Posted: Mon, Mar 15 2004, 5:27 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 9,719
... I kept telling you that Viagra would get to be popular ... you just didn't listen .... LOL
AJ_CHICAGO Offline
#41 Posted: Thu, Mar 18 2004, 7:01 PM EST
Joined: 10-27-2003
Posts: 189
You have the right to believe that abortion is wrong. Fine, argue as much as you want and teach your daughters your belief, but when they need to make up their own mind.......don't force your belief on them! They have a right to make up their own minds and it does not have to agree with your ideals. Would you persecute your own daughter even though she thought she was just as right as you? Why do you think your beliefs are more right? That's what's wrong with the world today. People try to force their beliefs on others. Not that long ago the world was flat and the heavens rotated around the earth, and if you espoused differently you were jailed or put to death. Time to grow up.
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