America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 20 years ago by AJ_CHICAGO. 9 replies replies.
SOME THOUGHTS. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
BY CHRISTOPHER LAYNE

when it comes to the bush administration's foreign policy, there certainly is much to criticize -especially with respect to iraq. we now know - and should have known a year ago - that iraq did not have weapons of mass dectruction and posed neither an imminent or a "grave and gathering" threat to the united states. we now know - contrary to repeated intimations by senior administration officials, including president bush and vice president cheney - that there was no alliance between al-queda and saddam hussein and that baghdad had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks.

the reason the bush administrtion went to war without multilateral stamp of approval is simple.
washington perceived - incorrectly in my judgement - that US interests required a regime change in baghdad. other states - notably france, germany, and russia - saw the world differently. they believed that saddam hussein's iraq was effectively contained and could only become a threat, if ever, many years down the road. they believed that their interests would be undercut by the US invasion because they presciently feared chaos in postwar iraq and greater instability in the middle east. the same dynamics explain why other states have not exactly rushed to bail the us out of its postwar problems in iraq. and we should not hold our breaths expecting them to do so, because their view of things is pretty much "you broke it, you buy it." the US broke iraq by going to war unilaterally and now we own the geopolitical equivalent of marvin gardens.
xrundog Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
I am more troubled by the endorsement of Sharon's Palestinian policy. Seems like the PALESTINIAN suicide bombers will be turning their attention to US soon.
Cavallo Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
saddam had to go.

i don't like the way we justified making that happen, but he had to go. yes, he was "contained," but contained in there with him were men and women and children who were being tortured, raped, mutilated and killed at the whim of this prick and his two sagging sons. that had to stop -- it SHOULD have stopped a decade before this. we had the ability and as far as i'm concerned the justification to ruin his sorry ass for invading an ally of ours. we didn't boot the nazis out of france and then go home. we kept going and made damned sure there was no hitler left to try the same stunts again.

we failed the iraqis once. i'm glad that we're not going to repeat the error.

no, i don't like the reasons (excuses) we've been fed for his ousting. imo, it was unnecessary and muddied the water. that didn't have to happen. the fact that the man was slaughtering his own citizens by the hundreds is reason enough to liberate iraq.

if i had my druthers we'd do the same thing to a healthy handful of other countries, starting with syria and putting a Made In The USA boot up north korea's ass next, and rounding off with a swift "F.U." to china while we're in the neighborhood.

"hey, china. our economy called. it wants to come home now. oh, yeah, and quit executing your slave workforce and kicking pregnant political prisoners in the gut and making them kill their own babies if it should survive to birth."

ugh. i don't want to think about my thoughts right now. :P
SteveS Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
I'm bothered by the line "we know now and should have known a year ago, that Iran did not have WoMD" ...

We DON'T know that now ... the fact is, we DO know that at one point they DID have them and USED them ... so, what happened ?? ... did they expend their entire supply? ... did they stash it? ... if there are none, why the shell game with the UN inspectors prior to the war? ... why the willingness to go to the mat? ...

Hey, let's face it ... absence of proof is not equal to proof of absence ... and remember, Iraq is the approximate size of California ... the spider hole Sadaam was pulled out of was large enough to hold a supply of WoMDs of sufficient magnitude to wipe out half of LA ... how many such holes are there, just waiting to be uncovered? ... it will take DECADES or maybe even longer before we "know" the facts ...
428cj Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 04-26-2003
Posts: 741
I still don't know how everyone can claim we went into Iraq 'alone'. Ok, so having 35+ nations helping us in some way is alone??? Please explain this to me.

About weapons of mass desctruction. Even though the world KNEW he had them for over 20 years (including the wonderful UN), it's now all President Bush's fault for acting on it and not finding them. People now claim Bush has lied about the wmd. I'm pretty sure I heard about the wmd BEFORE Bush was in office. I'm also sure Clinton and his administration viewed Iraq as an extremely dangerous threat to OUR national security because on the same wmd. But some people have short memories, don't they. Here come's the argument 'but Clinton didn't act on it'. No, he believed something to be a dangerous threat to the US and DIDN'T act on it. Great leader...

Just because we haven't found them yet doesn't mean they aren't or weren't there. We recently dug up several F-15 fighter planes in Iraq that were burried in the desert. We didn't know they'd be there until local residents told us. Did these fighters not exist until they were found? Which do you think is more difficult to burry in the sand, several airplanes or several barrels?

One final thought about wmd. To those who now say they were never there, they never existed because we haven't found them, I have a question. Do wanted criminals not exist until they're finally found? Is there really a difference? We knew both had existed at some point (in the past they both did something bad in order to now be 'wanted'), but since both can't be found do they not still exist? After all if we're looking for something that can't be found (wmd), by your arguments it MUST not exist. Just wondering.

I know it's really easy for people to know better and judge everyone (especially those they don't like), but I have little doubt that weapons of mass destruction WILL be found (maybe not in Iraq now, but belonging to the former Iraq regime). And I'n not saying that from any political view either, just based on the facts of the prior 20 some years in Iraq. Each to their own though.
lukin Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 03-31-2004
Posts: 2,205
I have to agree with what most of the people here are saying, but I will add one thing. The worst part about all of this is the politicizing of the whole issue. Watching Bush speak and the questions asked of him were enough to make me sick. The fact the media members had the stones to ask him if he made a mistake going into Iraq, and then ask him if he didn't act quickly enough in regards to 9-11 is sickening. The liberals in the media and on the comission completely ignore the fact that there were presidents before Bush who also never dealt with the problem (primiarily Clinton, but all presidents from Carter to today have somewhat mishandled terrorists). What do they expect the administration to do? On the one hand they wanted them to stop 9-11 and on the other they criticize him for his attempts in stopping (in the opinion of the current administration and in the two previous administrations) a legitimate threat to our nation. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Sylance Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-19-2003
Posts: 592
Actually, the most troubling statement I heard was from the second post:

“Seems like the PALESTINIAN suicide bombers will be turning their attention to US soon.”

_________________________________________________________________________________

To me, this sounds like that doing the right thing is not important, but appeasing terrorists is. While I don’t want terrorism in the United States or anywhere for that matter, I don’t F’in care what a suicide bomber thinks… in fact, if they don’t like it then it must be good for the world.

xrundong, I’ll admit that I’m not an expert on Sharon’s policy is right now, but if fear of a Palestinian suicide bomber is the only reason to not like the policy then to me that’s foolish. Terrorism’s main purpose is to change foreign policy through fear of killing innocent civilians… women and children. Sounds like they’ve bullied some people here in America and that’s a shame.
Charlie Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Been off the board for a while, and come back to more of Rick's banging on Bush...some things never change!
Oh let's see, We should have known that Saddam did not have WMD's! What intelligence are you basing that on Air America or some other Liberal banter? Saddam has used WMD's on several occassions and was keeping UN inspectors out, plus paying off many of them and France and Russia as well! He is gone and all is a lot better for it!

Charlie

PS. On the wrapper on or wrapper off discussions, I have about 75 cigars with wrapper on just to see if there is a difference! I still think wrapper off is better, but we will see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SteveS Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
I prefer the wrapper on as well ... removing it has a drastic negative effect on the taste of the cigar
AJ_CHICAGO Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-27-2003
Posts: 189
I don't know about removing the wrappers, but leaving the cellophane on seems to make the cigar burn much too fast and it keeps clogging up my punch.
Users browsing this topic
Guest