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Last post 19 years ago by ksbodman. 65 replies replies.
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Pentagon angered by photos from military mortuary
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DrMaddVibe Offline
#51 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 10:16 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
That's all fine and good, BUT where and when did he try to repeal that directive? Your article didn't say. It did point out that it was "reinstated" in November 2000. Bush wasn't sworn in office and didn't have Executive power until 2001. He was only the President-Elect and not the Impeached President.

Now I have to ask...why did the Clinton Administration "reinstate" this directive? What did they know, and when were THEY going to start the war on terror!
ksbodman Offline
#52 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 10:18 AM EST
Joined: 07-05-2006
Posts: 57
dbguru,

First of all, my name is spelled S-C-O-T-T.

Secondly, my question was in direct response to this statement:

"It is utter hypocrisy for the military to have rules that violate the constitution that they are sworn to defend.... This situation simply brings that to light."

While I did ask about your personal experience, I didn't characterize you as a person in any way and still haven't.

My point is that in this particular statement, you demonstrate vast ignorance of how the military operates and why they operate that way.

How do you know what, if any, political ideology I subscribe to based on this analysis of your comment?
uncleb Offline
#53 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 10:18 AM EST
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Scott,

Your issues with DB aside, I do not fully agree with your (and others') stance that because a person has not served in the military he (or she) cannot voice an opinion on it. I have never played professional football, but I know enough to voice opinion on why a coach did this or that. I have never served in the military, but I know enough to voice certain opinions on miltary actions. This constant stance that I see on these boards that says "you have never served in the military so you can't talk about it, discuss it or voice an opinion on it" (not saying it is necessarily your stance) is a bunch of crap and anyone that takes that stance is full of ****. If I want to voice my opinion on something, I will whether it is my field of expertise or not.

You may not work in my profession, but I would never try to insinuate that you cannot voice an opinion on it. I would try to discuss it with you and educate you but I would never say "do you do this for a living? No? than you cannot discuss it with me because I do and you don't so there".

Just my .02.
ksbodman Offline
#54 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 10:22 AM EST
Joined: 07-05-2006
Posts: 57
uncleb,

Where in anything I've written have I said or implied you or anyone else shouldn't voice an opinion on anything? All I did is point out that dbguru's statement is ignorant. That's MY opinion, which I've supported with something other than name-calling. Are you saying I shouldn't voice it?
dbguru Offline
#55 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 10:36 AM EST
Joined: 03-06-2002
Posts: 1,300
OK Sorry for misspelling your name, Scott... I have a funky "T"key on my computer, I assure you that it was noting personal... (i mean nothing..)
(if you follow my posts... you'll fund numerous misspellings all over the place, I don't claim to be perfect)

Listen ... I need to take a break from this discussion for a while.. Need to go out and raise my blood pressure with a good walk and then maybe a cigar..

I think I've made my points clearly and if you disagree with them .. that's your perogative. Like I've said before, some (perhaps not you but some)of you would support the actions of this administration even if Bush was proven to be the devil personified. I can't help that. My objective is simply to open up your consideration of this issue beyond the "Rules is Rules" restriction.

Think about it. Thinking is good. Trust me thinking is good and healthy for the human spirit.
ksbodman Offline
#56 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 10:42 AM EST
Joined: 07-05-2006
Posts: 57
I'm headed to the humidor myself, db. Enjoy.
uncleb Offline
#57 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 11:06 AM EST
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Scott,

I was not implying that you take that position, which is why I said "(not saying it is necessarily your stance)" but I do see it from others either implied or overtly stated and it sticks in my craw every time i see it. I was just using this particular discussion to voice my disapproval of that type of stance. It was meant to be a general statement from me, not directed at you. Sorry for the confusion.

Now I will also adjourn to a nice Fuente 8-5-8.
ksbodman Offline
#58 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 11:47 AM EST
Joined: 07-05-2006
Posts: 57
uncleb,

Just returned from an AF Corona Imperial.

My bad. I read too fast and missed the parenthetical statment in your last post to me.

No hard feelings. We're all entitled to state and discuss our opinions. That's why our country is worth defending.

GO NAVY!!

uncleb Offline
#59 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 11:49 AM EST
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Scott,

In my opinion............. GO ARMY!!!!!!!

HAHAHA.

B
DrMaddVibe Offline
#60 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 11:51 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
Are you avoiding answering the question that I asked or was that a lie?
ksbodman Offline
#61 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 12:00 PM EST
Joined: 07-05-2006
Posts: 57
I take back what I said about hard feelings, uncleb!!! ;)
Cavallo Offline
#62 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 12:39 PM EST
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
db wrote: "It is utter hypocrisy for the military to have rules that violate the constitution that they are sworn to defend..."

let me just say this: our military personnel, while defending that constitution, often do not have the LUXURY of ENJOYING the rights GRANTED in that constitution.

make sense? maybe not. but that is just one of many sacrifices that our military personnel make.

and that's my final answer.
ksbodman Offline
#63 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 1:09 PM EST
Joined: 07-05-2006
Posts: 57
Cavallo,

I should probably let this thread die with your post, but I have to give you the props you deserve. Well said, my friend.
penzt8 Offline
#64 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 1:10 PM EST
Joined: 06-05-2000
Posts: 1,771
Wow, this thing grew legs.

Service in the military does not strip you of your constitutional rights. There are however a few limits put on you to maintain good order and discipline. As far a free speech is concerned, military members enjoy free speech but are prohibited from engaging in political activities that could be construed as supporting one candidate or another. They are also prohibited from speaking out against their superiors (including the commander in chief).

Civilians are not subject to manual for courts martial or the UCMJ.

As far as the pictures are concerned I wasn't referring to the one photo taken by a civilian I was talking about the 350 or more that were taken (with permission) by military photographers. Why did they take the photos in the first place if nobody is ever intended to see them? They were obtained via the freedom of information act from the air force.
penzt8 Offline
#65 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 1:28 PM EST
Joined: 06-05-2000
Posts: 1,771
Just to illustrate the point I made earlier. When I was stationed in Guam I had a TSgt that worked for me. He was a Guamanian citizen. One weekend there was a political rally downtown that he attended that turned into a bit of a demonstration. He ended up getting arrested and spending a few days in the local jail.

He was an advocate for native Guamanian rights and was opposed to some of the US policies there. Well, that don't sit to well with Uncle Sam. After discussion with him and the air force legal department we determined that he couldn't serve in the air force and be involved in local politics. He was discharged shortly after the incident.

He was a good man that did what he believed in. He was later elected to the Guam Senate. Unfortunately he died last year at a young age.
http://www.kuam.com/news/6643.aspx

I threadjacked my own thread.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#66 Posted: Fri, Apr 23 2004, 1:37 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,498
Does this same article also happen to mention that the shuttle crew appeared in most of the pictures?

Just wonderin'...gotta go...cigar and beer thing...you guys understand.
ksbodman Offline
#67 Posted: Wed, May 19 2004, 5:42 AM EST
Joined: 07-05-2006
Posts: 57
case in point
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