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Last post 19 years ago by Herr Rabbit. 37 replies replies.
Are Gay Rights Civil Rights?
usahog Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/US/same_sex_marriage_movement_040312-1.html

Hog
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
""I was born black," said Thompson. "I was born male. Homosexuals are not born, they're made. They don't qualify. It doesn't protect behavior patterns"

he is wrong.
usahog Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Rick, are you impyling that Homosexual people know their going to be Homesexuals before their born? or while their growing up at such a young age of 2 or 3 or 4???

Hog
bloody spaniard Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Studies indicate that some may have a genetic predisposition to it, such as an extra chromosome, etc. Others simply "learn" the lifetstyle. I think that it's a combination of both.

I've heard of quite a few homosexuals who have had overbearing mothers...
pabloescabar Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
thats cuz the mom does all the beatings and dads smoking gars and has no cares in the world.
xrundog Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
I think there are certainly homosexual civil rights issues. I don't think marriage is one of them. The Constitution does not address marriage. It's a legal issue. And there is no logical reason for homosexual marriage to be illegal.
Cavallo Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
the dominant scientific opinion is that homosexuality is HARD WIRED -- in other words, you are "born that way." there is evidence that there may be subtle differences within the brain structure of homosexuals and heterosexuals, and there is also support for the notion that, during a pregnancy, hormones that "flood" the fetus -- the "hormone dump" that determines whether a fetus will remain female (as all feti start out female) or become male -- affect the fetus differently. in other words, a fetus that gets a "dump" of testosterone becomes male; if there are differences in the levels of hormones dumped, the result is a hard-wired sexual orientation of homosexuality.

there is even more solid evidence that transgendered people have distinct brain differences -- a man who is born into a male body but feels all of his life that he is a woman? there's a reason for that. such a person DOES have the BRAIN of a woman -- there are structural differences in the mail and female brain. transsexuals truly have the brain structure of the opposite of their physical sex!

and yes, of homosexuals who can remember back that far, many many many say that they have ALWAYS had their sexual orientation -- going back to the earliest memories at age 2, 3, 4, etc., they recall having attractions for MOTSS (members of the same sex).

the notion that TRUE homosexuals are "taught" to be gay has been debunked. a TRUE homosexual is born that way, to put it succinctly. there are, however, people who engage in sexual acts that run contrary to their TRUE orientation -- for instance, a man who is raped in prison by another man has not been "converted." if he was a heterosexual before he was aped, he will be heterosexual afterwards.

homosexuality is an ORIENTATION. it is not a LIFESTYLE or a BEHAVIOR -- just as heterosexuality is an ORIENTATION, not a lifestyle or behavior.

a heterosexual woman can display homosexual behavior by having sex with a woman; that does not change her orientation. she could have sex with a woman for many reasons other than physical attraction.

in looking at the term "lifestyle," one should ask what is the heterosexual "lifestyle." hetero men and women have many, many, many different ways of being heterosexual -- so do gays, lesbians and bisexuals. there are heteros who are family-oriented, who are sex-crazed playboys/girls, who have little interest in sex at all -- ad infinitum, the list goes on and on.

it doesn't make much sense to say that a gay man had a "domineering mother" or whatever and that's what made him gay -- there are many, many, many gay men who do not fit the limp-wristed homosexual stereotype. they are not, however, usually SEEN as being gay, though, because the don't APPEAR to be gay. my brother is a case in point. he looks and acts just like every other semi-truck driver on the road out there in his jeans and flannel shirts, listening to his country music. he is "invisible" though because he doesn't fit the nancy boy stereotype.

also, it is unlikely that homosexuals -- the vast majority by far of whom are raised by heterosexual parents -- "learn" to be gay. the "it's mom's fault" or "it's dad's fault" factor additionally makes no sense when one considers homosexuals who have brothers or sisters who were raised by the same parents and did NOT "learn" to be gay.

just some food for thought from someone who has done one hell of a lot of reading and research in trying to understand his own brother.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
usahog

come on now, that is too much extrapolating.

one doesn't start getting sexual urges until the beginning of puberty.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
xrundog

stop being so rational. read some of JonR's responses, and start responding illogically.
usahog Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
One of the Reasons I cannot Stand Bill O'Rielly
O Factor.. is because about 2 1/2 yrs ago he had a born again homosexual on his show.. and he ate that man alive in every aspect he could throw at him...

this man was a born again Christian and with that he had gone strait... to listen to his testamony on the events in his life before and then after... but Bill O didn't want to hear this and didn't feel the american public did either...

Cavalo.. I will stand strong on this issue.. this is a choice people are not born with this BS in the brain.. that is a copout, just as a man and woman merry... and then decide to cheat on one another... or have what they call today an Open Relationship......

To Each his own.. but they are the ones to answer for their own choices in lifes journey...

I do not have a choice because I was born with Brown eyes I'll have to live with that... and as the preacher points out in his article they did not have a choice because they were born black.... but to grow up and decide which partner a person chooses in life they do have a choice to make...

I've got allot of friends who are homosexual... I lost a cousin to Aids 12 yrs ago because that was the lifestyle he chose to live...I lost an Uncle to Aids because he and his wife were permiscious (sp) I've got friends who cannot function unless they smoke a joint first thing in the morning... these are all choices...
I'm sorry one cannot sell me on the idea a person is born with a deficiancy to want to take on a same sex partner... in my eye's that is a Choice...

Hog
usahog Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Rick you are the one that said this man was WRONG??

he did not say he changed colors when he reached puberty... so what did you mean by your statement above about him being Wrong???

Hog
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Cavallo

you know what you are talkong about and have explained it succinctly.

but

"a heterosexual woman can display homosexual behavior by having sex with a woman; that does not change her orientation. she could have sex with a woman for many reasons other than physical attraction"

damn right and i like those kind of "adult" movies.
usahog Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
so Rick you like to watch the Two men in action also??

Cavallo Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
usahog wrote: "to grow up and decide which partner a person chooses in life they do have a choice to make..."

when did you choose not to be attracted to men, hog?

rick: yeah, it's odd how homosexuality is a disgusting outrage -- until it comes to two hot women being sensual/sexual with each other; then it's a turn-on. :/
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
usahog

no.

as cavallo said, it's not the same turn on.
usahog Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
well I guess it was when I was raped by my babysitter when I was 8 yrs old.. ever since then it's been women all the way and I don't ever think I turned a blinker on a male...

Hog
usahog Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Rick what do you mean not the same turn on?? are you making a choice here??

Cavalo buffered my question to you with his statement...

So you have a "prefrence" in your "selection" of viewing pleasures?? so would it be offensive to you Rick to watch to men french kissing outside your house in public?? but if two women were doing it you would be out front doing some yard work right??

Hog
ilovemaui Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-24-2003
Posts: 48
Whether you are born that way or not marriage should be between a man and a woman. They can't pro-create. I f everyone was gay the species would die off. Of course most liberals would think thats a good thing. The world is going crazy and the liberals are going to use science and political correctness to spread their idiotic dogma.
Cavallo Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
ilovemaui: there are heterosexual couples who also cannot procreate. we do not deny them marriage.

have you ever thought that such couplings that cannot produce children might be natural population CONTROL?

there has been, it seems, a historically very consistent percentage of homosexual human beings: between 8-10%. that is pretty remarkable given the way societies differ the world over, how times and mores change, etc.

sidenote: just to clarify, hog, i wasn't trying to insult or single you out. my question was meant in the general "you" way, not the specifically YOU you way. :)
xrundog Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
It is a presumption to say that being a homosexual is a deficiency. It is also a presumption to say it's a perversion. These are opinions unsupported by scientific data. You are welcome to this opinion. But it's not right to base laws on opinions without a supporting argument of some sort. The "marriage is for procreation" argument is very weak. Many people procreate every day without the benefit of marriage. Others who are married choose not to procreate at all.

Rick, I gotta be rational. It's my nature!
bloody spaniard Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Don Cavallo, I don't agree with everything you said but you're certainly MUCH better read on the subject than I. One area of difference is the 8-10 percent figure. Didn't that originate from the highly discredited Kinsey report? Based on artificially-high numbers taken from a prison population by the king pervert himself? Not that it makes a big difference, but I've heard that the percentage is closer to 2-3.

By the way, for a big, burly, tuff ex-cop you know WAY too much about dem homersexuals. You don't own a pair of well-worn leather chaps with the cheeks cut out, do you? QUICK, what's your favorite color? A- ha! Pasley, just as I thought.

blood

PS: My "generalizations" on homosexuals (overbearing mothers, good grooming, intelligent, always proselytizing, etc.) was based on what I saw & heard (from them). I worked with & made friends with MANY homosexuals while I was an auditor for a couple of major insurance companies in the Dupont area of DC- probably only second to San Francisco. I found them to be very engaging, nice men/women but ALWAYS trolling. I'm sure that there are exceptions to the rule.
usahog Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Rick, you never answered my question???


Blood what do you mean by Trolling??

Hog
bloody spaniard Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Looking for sexual trysts, hog. The ones that I knew were good, honest, professional people who openly admitted their lust. They were also CONSTANTLY trying to win me & other straights over-- I drew the line on just holding hands on the first date though.

Kidding aside, they had an unquenchable thirst for sex. Possibly to fill a void. I don't know. Maybe it was the times (early eighties).
usahog Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
no that is what I was asking.. Thirst.. as Rick pointed out above.. it is ok "in Many Eye's" to view two women together "Sexually" its a thirst for many men.. but to view two men together kinda toss's some nuts and bolts in a fire...

even today the homosexual friends I have had made Sexual expicit comments to myself on different occasions.. some teasingly other times not... but they know infulentually I accept them for who they are and I will not step into the relm of lifestyle they choose that makes them happy....

as this article or thread began.. these preachers who many ancestors and themselves have dealt with Civil Rights issues first hand feel the Gay's/lesbians are pulling on shirt strings that are not there...

This is not a civil rights issue.. it's plainly a gay rights issue... people are not born homosexual it is a chosen lifestyle... and what would be next??

Rick I am still awaiting your answer...

Hog
Charlie Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
All interesting points of view! Homosexuality is trendy now and they are getting big ratings on TV shows, so we will get blasted with many shows featuring gays, and gay lifestyles! It still takes a man and a woman to make one baby, whoops, stem cell and cloning can take care of that, so what next?

Charlie
MACS Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,911
My opinion? I'm a christian. I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman. I also believe that gays should be allowed the same rights as married couples by calling it a "civil union" or whatever. I don't know much about the subject of why gay people are gay and I really don't care to judge them. Judgement will come when they die.
choner Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-04-2003
Posts: 876
Does anyone in here really understand genetics and the way it controls our hormone patterns, mental status, emotional moods, and other physiological states?

What causes you to have heterosexual urges are a combo of several hormones in your body that are triggered by senses or any stimili. Thus some people have high sex drives or low sex drives depending upon physiological states, one being hormone levels. The same can be applied to homosexual tendencies. Thus a male that produces too much of a hormone that triggers homosexual desires will have homosexual urges. Genetics and hormone levels do play a big part in homosexuality. But it is a mix of both genetics and enviroment. To say its all one or the other is wrong. I think homosexual rights are civil rights, no question about it.

choner
bloody spaniard Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
I see, I see, very interrrresting.

My rebuttal (no pun intended) is: I saw, what I saw, 'n dats all what I saw..."

Popeye blood
pabloescabar Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
yea rights, right to a Island sos they can have there own Country and do what they like but not infront of me and my family.
Cavallo Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
pablo: i've seen a lot more het couples doing a lot more sexual things in public than i've seen gay couples doing -- even in san francisco. i don't want to see ANYONE playing tonsil hockey while i'm trying to watch a movie or eat dinner in a restaurant.

blood: (you KNOW that name is just sooooo studly!) ;) heh. my brother's gay. i knew him and his friends pretty early on in my life. i grew up knowing and being friends with gays and lesbians -- didn't know a bisexual until i hit college though. she was mighty popular. heh.

you know, it's interesting, though, to take this a step further -- there's a current scientific theory that asserts that gay males and lesbians may be influenced by hormones more than heterosexuals are. the "manifestation" of this is that many gay men have higher sex drives than het men do; lesbian women may have lower sex drives than het women do.

there are two "cultural anecdotes" (i.e., JOKES) that bear this out (if it's true). the stereotypical gay man has a high sex drive and doesn't want to "settle down" with just one guy. the stereotypical lesbian couple are quick to form an exclusive, monogamous couplehood and move in together quickly after meeting. the term "LBD" or "lesbian bed death" refers to the tendency for many lesbians to basically stop having sex after a relatively short time as a couple living together (straight men know this as "welcome to the club!" syndrome after marriage -- ba dum dum!)

anyway, the jokes:

Q what does a gay man bring to a second date?
A what second date?

Q what does a lesbian bring to a second date?
A a U-Haul

ba dum dum. there's your queer culture lesson du jour.
bloody spaniard Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Seeeee--I knew I wasn't crazeeee.

You gay caballero you.

blooodeee
Cavallo Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
blood: you cheeky monkey you. :)

alas, if i were gay my wife wouldn't make fun of me for wearing plaid pajama bottoms with a (different) plaid flannel shirts for "hang around the house" attire.

i tell her, "yeah, yeah. just wait. this'll be some seriously hip metro stuff in a year or two!" :P
pabloescabar Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
hey Tony, I love you Man...
Cavallo Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
pablocito... you put the "¡AY!" in GAY, amigo!

blood: ctrl + 173 *grin*

night, folks.
Cavallo Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
oh! feh. i actually DID have something relevant to post... blood, you're right about the stats. it is closer to 2-3% -- and that number's remained stable among all cultures and throughout recordable history.

sorry about the error. i need some serious sleep! :P

anyway, yes, the kinsey report has been scrutinized and found lacking -- it was a matter of classification, though, nothing scandalous that i'm aware of. basically, kinsey's stats were based on different criteria, but the methodology was still good. the numbers had to be lowered, though, to reflect homosexuality and not include bisexuality as well.

thanks for bringing that to my attention! and what the hey, bro. we certainly don't have to agree on every single point in the world in order to respect each other and to be amici.
bloody spaniard Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Tony, you're a class act!

Pablo's not the only one who loves you bro.

blood
pabloescabar Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 02-25-2005
Posts: 30,183
touche...
Herr Rabbit Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-13-2004
Posts: 104
Aren't Gays the only group that claims special rights simply based on how they sex?
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