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teachers can be canned if special ed students aren't "proficient?" you bet.

in fact, i've heard nothing but bad from VERY GOOD teachers, principals and administrators. we're talking schools and teachers who have won awards of excellence -- but excellence isn't so great in GWB's eyes...

this is an article from my local (wilmington, nc) newspaper that illustrates why educators hate "No Child Left Behind." i don't blame them.

July 20. 2004 12:00AM

Making the grade

By Sam Scott
Staff Writer

[email protected]

Approximately 70 percent of area schools met controversial federal testing standards for student achievement this year, according to results released Monday.

Every district in Southeastern North Carolina showed a marked increase in the number of schools making 100 percent of their goals under the federal No Child Left Behind Act.

Pender County led the charge with 80 percent of its schools making "adequate yearly progress," up from 29 percent last year. New Hanover County schools nearly matched that result with 79 percent of schools making the grade.

At 50 percent, Brunswick County had the lowest percentage of schools achieving all their goals, outside of Whiteville's three-school district. Brunswick, however, nearly tripled last year's total number of schools satisfying federal requirements.

Despite the progress, Brunswick Superintendent Eddy Daniel had little good to say about the No Child Left Behind testing system he sees as punitive and unrewarding of individual growth.

"It's a totally negative, 100 percent biased, absolutely false representation of a school's effectiveness," he said.

The federal act passed in 2001 as a way to raise accountability in schools requires that each of up to 10 groups at a school reach the same standard on proficiency tests. The groups are: the school as a whole, white, black, Native American, Asian, Hispanic, multiracial, limited English speakers, disabled and economically disadvantaged.

This year 68.9 percent of each group had to reach grade-level proficiency on reading. And 74.6 percent had to reach proficiency on statewide math tests.

The test is all or nothing. If one group fails either test, the school is considered a failure, no matter how well the student body at large does.

Waccamaw Elementary School, for example, is in most respects a shining jewel in the Brunswick County school system. Last year more than 90 percent of students tested proficient in reading and math, earning distinction from the state as a School of Excellence.

But Waccamaw's approximately 70 special education kids failed to meet their reading goal for a second year, putting the school afoul of No Child Left Behind requirements. The school met each of its other requirements.

So like 10 other schools in the region, Waccamaw is now in "school improvement status." It has to let children transfer to another school if it wants to continue to receive federal Title I funds available to schools with more than 40 percent of the student body on subsidized lunches.

If any of its groups fail reading in each of the next two years, Waccamaw will have to choose from among certain prescribed responses that could include firing staff, turning over operation to the state or a private company, changing the curriculum or lengthening school time.

Schools that do not receive Title I funding are unaffected by the rules.

Even some whose schools did very well in the results noted the system's toughness. Tom Roper, the chairman of the Pender County school board, was elated to hear of the system's performance, but he also said it was hard to achieve perfection in any field, let alone education.

No Left Child Behind will become more demanding next year. The percentage of each group that must reach proficiency will rise more than seven percentage points in reading and more than 6 percentage points in math. Within a decade, each group is supposed to be 100 percent proficient in each subject.

Vann Blake, the principal of Cape Fear Middle School in Pender County, said he'd try his best. But he believes it is wishful thinking to get everybody to grade level. Students with disabilities are, by definition, not likely to get to the level of their peers, he said. And some foreign students show up at age 12 never having gone to school – in their own language, let alone in English.

"They might as well have passed a law that all boys in the eighth grade be more than 6 feet and all girls have less than 5 percent body fat," he said.

His school is on improvement status as students with disabilities again did not reach their target in math. The school as a whole was more than 92 percent proficient in math.

The school sent out letters a week ago letting parents know they could transfer. Nobody had chosen to leave, he said.

Let's just push 'em through...yeah that'll really help them out in the long run.

It's a great plan! Make teachers, administrators and supervisors accountable for what they're teaching. How many kids were rammed through the system and then forced to work meaningless jobs because that's all they're qualified to do? Doing nothing about it is what a better thing? Some teacher's union gets it's feathers ruffled because they've failed miserably do their job and it's now the GW's fault? Are you going to blame him if he's not around to tell you to inhale and exhale your next breath?

After the school voucher progam you'd think that THAT would've made the schools wake up and do their J-O-B, but nooooooooooo. They want the government to step in. You get what you get when you're willing to let government solve your problems.

uncleb

Don't barf in your humidors!

C

ok fellas I kind of feel the need to respond.

We have to have some type of education plan. I think we all agree on that. And we definitely do not want the status quo left over from earlier presidents since kids were just passed to get them out of the teacher's hair. I definitely think the teachers have to be held accountable and they all need a substantial pay increase. Along with that the bad teachers need to be fired.

How many of you have actually looked at Bush's plan?

Now to adress a couple of jabs:

I do not think Bush is stupid. If he is and got elected - yes elected, then where does that put you guys who put him down? Gore LOST get over it already.

Texas ranks #34, Washington is #33 in education ranking so you guys up North are no better than Texas.

The minimum wage in Texas is $5.15 completely in line with the rest of the midwestern/southern states.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm#Illinois

http://www.morganquinto.com/edrank.htm

IMO the feds need a plan but the real responsibility should lie with the states. I feel very fortunate to have my kids attend one of the best elementary schools in IL. We are just a little rinky dink town(pop 850) but we are a LITE school, Leaders in Technology Education. Teachers from all over the state come visit our school to get training.

Nothing personal here just a diff in a young lib and an old con.

Ok I gotta say this,

There could be more to this issue than I know, but according to the article, a percentage of each grade must be at their grade level in reading and math.

For example: Johnny is in the 3rd grade, in order for him to pass his proficiency tests, he must be able to read and do math at a 3rd grade level. If he can't then he repeats the 3rd grade until he can. Seems like common sense to me. Don't pass a kid on if they can't do the work.

Special education issues should be separate, but I wouldn't even know where to begin, seeing how there are so many learning disabilities.

Just my .02

Mike

The "special education" isn't part of this program. Special needs are evaluated on an individual basis. Every child has goals outlined and parents with teachers do their best to see that they can reach these goals. If you were to go to your local school and poke your head into one of those clases you'd see what I'm talking about. I'm sure there are some lazy ass parents that will be just fine with pushing responsibility off on the school system, but this harping on special needs is a joke. The kids are "mainstreamed" into a regular school and in some cases into regular classrooms, but the ones that aren't won't be held to some high bar to hurdle. People with an IQ of 30 won't be forced to learn multiplication tables. Instead they'd be taught how to count change back or similar tasks. If you think for one second that a special education program is designed to meet the same expectations as a normal classroom then you've been led to believe a lie. Giving these children a desk at a school near them places them into the faces of others. It makes others deal with it. They don't need to be institutionalized anymore. Society has progressed that far.

cavallo come on now - i would NEVER have expected cons/reps to essentially say, "johnny can't read because he obviously has a bad teacher -- surely he bears no personal responsiblity for his education!"

So a 5 year old is now responsible enough to take ownership of his education???

There are bad teachers. The parents have to take a lot of responsibility enforcing what the teacher's do or fail to do.

bassdude -- a five year-old isn't expected to read at all. :) think a few years up from kindergarten, yo.

yes, there are bad teachers. absolutely. my wife's a teacher and acknowledges that there are good, mediocre and bad teachers, too. but should a good teacher lose his or her job because a couple of slackers in their sophomore year of high school cut class to go smoke weed and watch MTV and end up with failing grades that skew the stats of that teacher's class just enough to make that class not meet the goals?

there are MANY factors that go into a child's education: teachers, parents and children make up the main triad, but there are also socio-economic factors, health factors, learning disabilities, different RATES of learning ability and aptitude, etc. add on to that such things as personal motivation, testing ability, attitude, attendance, willingness to learn, and those are a lot of factors. however, what NCLB does is put EVERY ONE of those factors squarely on the shoulders of the TEACHER.

if the teacher can't make sure johnny COMES to school, has the inate, biological ability to learn his lessons, does his homework correctly, and passes every single test, that teacher's head is on the chopping block.

IF johnny is a slacker, has health problems, skips classes, is into drugs or alcohol, has an attitude problem, has parents that don't FORCE him to do every bit of his homework, doesn't care about school or grades, and dozens of other things that SOME kids do, his teacher can be fired.

that's a hell of a lot to simply dump on teachers and say "if he screws up, you're fired."

what's going to happen when NO CLASS makes that 100%? fire ALL the teachers?

reform is needed, yes. but NCLB is not reality-based. can you imagine being given charge for a few hours mon-fri of 30 random teenagers from all socio-economic backgrounds, races and abilities, and if a handful of them don't meet the goals someone else has laid out there 100%, you get canned? is that realistic even if you were in charge of 30 random ADULTS?

a five year-old isn't expected to read at all. :) think a few years up from kindergarten, yo.

That does not apply here. Our kids start learning the basics in K(at 5) and are reading independantly in 1st grade. My 2nd grader routinely brings home 100+ page books. Reads them in a few days then takes an exam.

Sorry Joldn(sp?) but DrM is correct. I have "special needs" boys (autistic) in the Maryland and in the Virginia schools systems. The teachers are not held accountable for their "progress" which is minimal. My wife could talk your ears off regarding this topic.

Great thread, Tony--good pros & cons.

blood

I was referring to LD, PI, SLD & VE students....not mentally handicaped

Proof....read what makes up subgroups:


http://www.fldoe.org/NCLB/FactSheet-AYP.pdf

We have schools in Duval county that have graded A with the state but have failed NCLB because of one subgroup. Letters ahve been sent to all parents of these schools informing parents that these schools have not met AYP. Again, I am not against accountability or reform, but NCLB is to inflexible and unrealistic....you have yet to respond to my earlier question about all Drs being required to have 100 % cure rates.

Personally...your concocted story about doctors has no bearing on whatever your choosing to believe in regards to NCLB. Post a link of this failed school. I'm intrigued to see a school that wants to use the special education platform as an excuse as to why their other classes aren't passing their students. Like I've already stated, each student in special education has their own IEP. It's tailored to the individual and not to the class. They do not take the FCAT either. There are some children that are in a special education class for one or two particular subjects, but my daughter's class is filled with 18 kids, 1 teacher and 2 para-pros. Want to blame somebody for NCLB? Look towards the NEA. They're the ones that foot-dragged the issue of accountability. Most of them still believe in tenure as the only measure of being a good educator.

As for my moniker...don't read too much into it. I could be Stephen Hawking or your dad. It's just a name. I'm a Fishbone fan...that's all.

And I thought I was talking to someone that could get their point across in an educated manner without the childish remarks.

The Duval county school...what's the name of it?

^Sorry to interrupt the lively exchange between you & DrM, but Drm's comment hit home.

*Sorry for the threadjack*
Thanks for for the support, brother.
You said that your baby was born with Spina Bifida(sp?)? I don't mean to pry & forgive my ignorance, but isn't that a condition where part of the spinal cord is exposed? Someone told me that it may be partially caused by a lack of sufficient folic acid (vitamin B) in the expectant mother? How old is your baby?

If you don't want to talk about it, I understand.
My e-mail is "mdi at maranatha.net" if you ever want to share. In the meantime, I will pray for you, your family, and especially your baby girl.

Everyone has a cross to bear in life. Some of us just have more of a challenge than others. There is a reason for it--we just don't know why, but the answer will become clear in time. I hope you realize that your sharing will bring you the prayers and support of many of the brothers on these boards. Hearts mend faster that way.

Shoot DrM, now it's going to be harder to goof on you! ;-)

Sorry (again)for the interruption.

DMV upset at someone for "childish reamrks". Now that is funny.

Gater, I predict that this program will eventually be phased out or have most of its budget gutted. Some politician down the road will say that the results do not justify the $$$ spent. Same old, same old...

In my case, where I have two autistic boys in two different school sysytems, all that I have noticed is that there is an additional inch of reports to fill out. The special-ed teachers have never really been held accountable, but now all that they will do is "dumb-down" the expectations/goals so that they are easier to reach. So I am ambivalent about this new law. Knowing human nature as I do, people/teachers naturally take the "road of least resistance". They also cover their asses. They'll probably find a way around it.

It seems that you and DrM are much better read than I regarding this "NCLB". You guys certainly know your acronyms. I could care either way for this NCLB business. All that I want is that our children live out their lives with basic skills and without undue hardships after we are gone.


Joldnol, I was sorry to see that your child has aspberger's syndrome. In a way (and I mean this respectfully), you're luckier than most, in that you have a higher-functioning autistic child. In fact, many of these children grow up to be brilliant engineers, mathematicians, teachers, authors, etc. They say that Einstein may have had a form of Aspbergers. You hang in there as well.

blood

Amen to that AVB!
My wife is a teacher by trade, although she's been a full time mom since we had our first kid 7 years ago.
She went back to teaching as an assistant for a special needs child at our kids school (part time) and saw the very worst a parent can do.
This particular childs parents were divorced and in their efforts to limit information to their estranged spouse they limitted information to the school and his teachers.
We're talking negligence here, of the kind that would (or should) result in the state taking the kid away from his moron parents.

Certainly this is an extreme case, but you see it all over. Parents (most) think their kids are special and deserve only good things.
They expect the schools to raise their kids.

Folks, I'm not that old, but when I was growing up my parents made sure I was following the school curriculum, doing my homework, and taking education seriously.
Today, when a kid acts up, the parents blame the teachers.

We're not talking about a village here. We're talking about self responsibility. And it starts at a very young age.

Bloody...the lord blessed us with our son for a reason. Just haven't figured it out yet. I taught Autistic kids for 8 years so I know how fortunate I am. God bless you.

my parents didn't graduate from h.s.

they, italian-americans, didn't give a care in the world for my education -- in their culture it was an insult for the kids to "rise above" the parents. so i got zero support from them in elementary school through college.

i had to care about my own education -- and i did. i was the first in my family to hold one degree, much less multiple degrees.

so i had no support in my education. i also had a few teachers who would have loved to see this blue-collar city kid fail in their suburban high school, too. must have hurt them when i made the national honor society and was saluditorian at our h.s. graduation.

my point? parents can suck, and teachers can be mediocre, but the STUDENTS also bear *some* responsiblity for their own success.

that said, i'm not naive enough to think that i'm a standard case. most of my friends from the "old neighborhood" fell in line with what was expected of them -- they quit school, got into drugs and alcohol, became teen parents, etc. up until h.s., we all had the same teachers, the same uninterested parents, the same neighborhood jungle to navigate.

again, i am not opposed to reform in education. along with it, though, more needs to also be expected from PARENTS and STUDENTS. you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink and all. the problem does NOT rest squarely on the shoulders of any one entity -- but NCLB puts the full burden on teachers, and it is setting PUBLIC SCHOOLS up to FAIL.

why could that be, i wonder?

I know this was mentioned previously but it is interesting to watch the dynamics here in Florida between Jeb and his brother. The part mentioned was, schools that receive "A's" from Jebs A+ Program and end up as failures using the NCLB criteria. If a school receives an "A" it gets all kinds of $$$$ as a reward from the state. If it is judged a failure under NCLB it can lose all of its' staff and administration after a 3 year period. Great stuff!

Yes Herr....we damn teachers will have to work now.....just like the majority of us teachers have been doing for years.