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Last post 19 years ago by MACS. 12 replies replies.
Soldier Sues Over Extended Service
Cavallo Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
i'm curious to see what folks here think of this, particularly those in the military (or vets)...


Soldier Sues U.S. Military Over Extended Service
By REUTERS

Filed at 6:59 p.m. ET

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - A California Army National Guard sergeant filed a
lawsuit on Tuesday asserting that the government can not prevent reservists
from leaving the military when their enlistment periods end.

The suit against Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other military officials
names the plaintiff only as John Doe. It says he served with distinction in the
Marine Corps and Army for nine years on active duty and three years as a
reservist.

``This lawsuit seeks to stop the forced retention of men and women who have
fulfilled their service obligations,'' said attorney Michael Sorgen. ``When
their period of enlistment ends, they should be entitled to return to their
families.''

``It's not that he's a coward,'' he added. ``He's just had it up to here.''

The Army has issued ``stop-loss'' orders preventing tens of thousands of
soldiers designated to serve in Iraq and Afghanistan from leaving the military
if their volunteer commitment ends during their deployment. The Pentagon has
relied heavily on reservists to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan.

``The order violates Doe's right to due process and the terms of his enlistment
contract, and is contrary to law,'' the lawsuit reads. ``The involuntary
extension of Doe's military enlistment constitutes a serious infringement on
his liberty protected by the Constitution.''

The San Francisco-area man, who filed the lawsuit in U.S. District Court for
Northern California, fought during the invasion of Iraq last year. Married with
two young daughters, he is seeking a release from service when his Army
National Guard term ends in December.

SOME 'NOT OVERJOYED' ABOUT GOING

The suit names the plaintiff's commander as Capt. Kincy Clark, who heads the
131-person Bravo Company of the First Battalion, 184th Infantry regiment based
in Dublin, California. The unit reported for duty on Monday and is expected to
train for several months before going to Iraq in February or March.

``We have some soldiers who are obviously not overjoyed about being deployed,''
Clark, who is named as a co-defendant in the case, told Reuters by telephone.
``I have had to look them in the eye and say, 'Hey, you are going.'''

He added that reservists know when signing up that ``stop loss'' or extension
of service is a possibility.

Lawyer Sorgen said the extension was a violation because the U.S. Congress had
not declared war or a state or emergency. He called the suit the first of its
kind in recent years, although he said a Georgia court ruled against a soldier
after the first Gulf War in a 1991 case.

The attorney also said his client was being treated for post-traumatic stress
disorder and had been temporarily excused from reporting with the rest of his
unit this week.

A spokesman for the California National Guard had no comment. Joanne Swanson,
head of the civil division of the U.S. Attorney's office in San Francisco, said
she was aware of the suit but declined to comment.

The extension of service for U.S. soldiers has also become an issue in the
presidential campaign, with Democrat John Kerry saying he will end what he
calls a ``backdoor draft.''

The ``stop loss'' order means soldiers who otherwise could leave when their
commitments expire will be compelled to remain until the end of a year-long
overseas deployment and up to another 90 days after returning to their home
base.


http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-security-usa-reservists.html
usahog Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
If he wants to waist allot of Cash on Lawyer Fee's and if his Lawyer knows the Laws is another thing??

Feres Doctrine or the Federal Tort Claims Act
http://www.louisvillelaw.com/federal/federal_tort_claims_act.htm

the military can and will usually take you all the way to the day your going to hang them by the B@lls and then toss these out there to chew on...

this is why they get away with anything they want and "usually" do...

but come on??? pissed off and suing because of extended duty??

Let the guy waist his frickin Money...

I type this while I listen to this Lying Brig. General on Fox News cut down everyone around her but herself...
about the Prison abuses... Bill O'Riely

Hog
usahog Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Another thing.. when their enlistment is up they still have a two yr inactive service they have to do... and the military can use this inactive service in any way shape or form they see fit... Thus Extending your enlistment for the career field you hold or branch of service you preform in is just what the extra 2 yrs on the contract are all about...

Should have read the fine print...;0)

Hog
AVB Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 05-21-2003
Posts: 995
In this case he is a member of the National Guard. I don't know if the 1 year enlistment has any inactive reserve time attached. It seems that he has already served the 6 years of his first enlistment but the article doesn't say exactly. This will be interesting to follow.
penzt8 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 06-05-2000
Posts: 1,771
I have several friends who have gone through similar experiences. Personally, I disagree with the stop loss policy except in times of true national defense emergencies (which the current situation is not). If a person volunteers and does their time, they should be discharged.

Stop loss is not a good personnel management tool and is only going to cause additional recruitment problems in the future.

Of course, like Russ has said, this guy will spend a lot of money to fight this losing battle.
usahog Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
AVB, National Guard is same as Active in the aspects of 6 yrs (for College Purposes) minimum 4 yrs otherwise with a 2 yr inactive contract...

Stop Loss on the Army's side is where this guy is at... at one time the Air Force had a stop loss on the field I was in and allot of folks were pissed off...

the Guard and Reserve IMO have the better... they give individuals the time to do their schooling (accept for now with the actions in Iraq and Afgan.) it was 1 weekend a month and 15 days (summer camp) a yr which added up to 39 days a yr for 6 yrs and the 100% college bonus kicker.. a supervisor and myself figured it up and these weekend warriors were making $56,000 for a total 6 yrs X 39 days actually served in service...

Hell I was full time and my supervisor was also and we didn't come close to 56,000 for 365 days a yr...

but now with the contingincy operations going on... these guys/gals are b!tching because of extended enlistments and longer deployments...
which also on the deployments end... Guard and reserve do not have to serve as long of tours as regular active duty troops... say like 1 yr active tour is between 6-8 months for G/R depending on their career field...

The one's who should be pissed off and filing any suits is the Ready or Retired Reservs... been out for how long? already started a different life/business etc.. then get called back up after being out for a couple yrs or more?? something like 60,000 were called just last month...

but all in all... you cannot sue the military (congress FRESE Doc 1951)

Hog
CWFoster Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
I hate to see someone who's out for a few years, and gets called up unexpectedly, but I see alot of these Guard and Reserve troops (and a few active duty types) who seem to think tha the military is a place to go get some training, get your teeth fixed, get some money for college, and bail. A war was never in their plans, and they think it's a total imposition on their time and plans. I sometimes think some of these guys thought they were joining the Boy Scouts with a paycheck. I think it awful that the only backlash the recruiting offices saw after 9/22 was a flurry of phone calls, and vets wanting back in. After Pearl Harbor (where casualties were LOWER) there were lines going around the block the next day! Sometimes I wonder if progress is a good thing?
usahog Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
CW in the Guard (from my standpoint of view) it was about 75/25... many many people I worked with and trained were ready and would deploy in a heartbeat for any contigency's that sprung up... the other 25% you could see it in their attendance, work ethics and additude... and was easy to filter them out quickly... besides who the hell wants to be in a war situation with somebody who's mind isn't in the Game??

I never cut them no slack either...

Hog
nealep Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-14-2004
Posts: 519
I think that a lot of the problem, especially with the Nat. Guard, is that they are thinking that they belong to the State Governor (sp) where they are located, but once they are "Federalized", they belong to DOD.

When I was in Basic (a long time ago, Vietnam era), we had a guy (Nat. Guard) in my Platoon who was always spouting off about how he only had X more number of weeks to complete before he would be back on the beach with his catering truck, checking out all the babes, etc. He was going to Infantry AIT after basic. To make a long story short, when I got to my permenant duty station after training, I ran into another guy who had been in my basic company. He told me that when this guy had completed training & returned to his unit, he found out that they had been activated & were on their way to Vietnam. WWWHHHHHAAAAAAAAA....

Neal
Cavallo Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 01-05-2004
Posts: 2,796
i guess i'm kind of divided about the whole thing. if it was about me, i'd be FINE with it. yes, i'd want to get back home to my wife and all, but as it is, i don't make $90k and have kids to tend to, etc. i also have this chunk missing from my life that DESPERATELY WISHES i could serve my country in the military. i'm always going to feel like less of a man for not having been able to do so.

on the other hand, though, i can see how rip-$hit a person would be if he's been pulled out of his $90k salary job to work for military scale, not have insurance for his wife and kids now and be a world away while they're home trying to make it through on a much lower pay rate, praying the kids don't get sick, etc. if i was in that person's shoes, i would probably be having a fit as well.

i guess it comes down to it being a shame that when someone does his duty, his family has to suffer for it. i doubt that single troops have nearly as much problem with extended deployments. just a guess, though.
CWFoster Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
Cav, I don't know the details, but a DISCHARGE is a DISCHARGE! If he did over eight years total, active duty and inactive reserves, he's DONE! However, if the person in question wanted to try to go for that $80K/yr job, and STILL try to draw a military pension, he can leave active service, and go active reserves. Note: Active reservists are not full time, they just do the weekend a month, and two weeks a year and call it good.
INactive reserve is someone who's been released from active duty, but has less than the 8 year minimum service, and can be recalled for that time. What we have here is someone "Whose unit was being activated" inactive reservists aren't assigned to any unit that I'm aware of, so I'm guessing he's active reserve. Too bad, so sad, you were trying to ride the system, and now you're griping because you've got to hold up your end....








hear that? it's the world's saddest tune being played on the worlds smallest violin, just for him!
usahog Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
LMAO @ CW...

Hog
MACS Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,833
I concur with CW. I'm tired of hearing the reservists piss and moan about having to do their duty. You signed up, dipsh*t. They HAD been taking advantage of the system... reaping the benefits, without having to really pay for them. I mean c'mon, you do 2 days a month and get paid for 4. And your 2 weeks is usually a nice vacation in a foreign country or going to a school.

Suck it up, you crybaby. You want sympathy from me you'll find it between sh*t and syphyllis in the dictionary.
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