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Last post 19 years ago by Charlie. 35 replies replies.
Ollies remarks. Do you think Kerry will respond?
usahog Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Bring it on, John
Oliver North
August 27, 2004


"Of course, the president keeps telling people he would never question
my service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded
attack group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our
service in Vietnam, here is my answer: 'Bring it on.'" -- Sen. John Kerry

Dear John,

As usual, you have it wrong. You don't have a beef with President George
Bush about your war record. He's been exceedingly generous about your
military service. Your complaint is with the 2.5 million of us who served
honorably in a war that ended 29 years ago and which you, not the
president, made the centerpiece of this campaign.

I talk to a lot of vets, John, and this really isn't about your medals or
how you got them. Like you, I have a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. I only
have two Purple Hearts, though. I turned down the others so that I could
stay with the Marines in my rifle platoon. But I think you might agree with
me, though I've never heard you say it, that the officers always got more
medals than they earned and the youngsters we led never got as many medals
as they deserved.

This really isn't about how early you came home from that war, either,
John. There have always been guys in every war who want to go home. There
are also lots of guys, like those in my rifle platoon in Vietnam, who did a
full 13 months in the field. And there are, thankfully, lots of young
Americans today in Iraq and Afghanistan who volunteered to return to war
because, as one of them told me in Ramadi a few weeks ago, "the job isn't
finished."

Nor is this about whether you were in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968.
Heck John, people get lost going on vacation. If you got lost, just say so.
Your campaign has admitted that you now know that you really weren't in
Cambodia that night and that Richard Nixon wasn't really president when you
thought he was Now would be a good time to explain to us how you could have
all that bogus stuff "seared" into your memory -- especially since you want
to have your finger on our nation's nuclear trigger.

But that's not really the problem, either. The trouble you're having,
John, isn't about your medals or coming home early or getting lost -- or
even Richard Nixon. The issue is what you did to us when you came home,
John.

When you got home, you co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War and
wrote "The New Soldier," which denounced those of us who served -- and were
still serving -- on the battlefields of a thankless war. Worst of all,
John, you then accused me -- and all of us who served in Vietnam -- of
committing terrible crimes and atrocities.

On April 22, 1971, under oath, you told the Senate Foreign Relations
Committee that you had knowledge that American troops "had personally
raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to
human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies,
randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of
Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and
generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam." And you admitted on
television that "yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as
thousands of other soldiers have committed."

And for good measure you stated, "(America is) more guilty than any other
body, of violations of (the) Geneva Conventions ... the torture of
prisoners, the killing of prisoners."

Your "antiwar" statements and activities were painful for those of us
carrying the scars of Vietnam and trying to move on with our lives. And for
those who were still there, it was even more hurtful. But those who
suffered the most from what you said and did were the hundreds of American
prisoners of war being held by Hanoi. Here's what some of them endured
because of you, John:

Capt. James Warner had already spent four years in Vietnamese custody
when he was handed a copy of your testimony by his captors. Warner says
that for his captors, your statements "were proof I deserved to be
punished." He wasn't released until March 14, 1973.

Maj. Kenneth Cordier, an Air Force pilot who was in Vietnamese custody
for 2,284 days, says his captors "repeated incessantly" your one-liner
about being "the last man to die" for a lost cause. Cordier was released
March 4, 1973.

Navy Lt. Paul Galanti says your accusations "were as demoralizing as
solitary (confinement) ... and a prime reason the war dragged on." He
remained in North Vietnamese hands until February 12, 1973.

John, did you think they would forget? When Tim Russert asked about your
claim that you and others in Vietnam committed "atrocities," instead of
standing by your sworn testimony, you confessed that your words "were a bit
over the top." Does that mean you lied under oath? Or does it mean you are
a war criminal? You can't have this one both ways, John. Either way, you're
not fit to be a prison guard at Abu Ghraib, much less commander in chief.

One last thing, John. In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say
something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I
caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help
end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless
and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want
to apologize to them and their families."

Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?


Oliver North is a nationally syndicated columnist, host of the Fox News
Channel's War Stories.
niteorday Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 02-29-2004
Posts: 4,209
Kerry is a traitor, period.
Charlie Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Ollie is right!

Charlie
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
ollie is a convicted felon who was later pardoned. not innocent of the felony, just pardoned.
rayder1 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 06-02-2002
Posts: 2,226
Kerry is an unconvicted felon Rick. Your kind of dirtbag.
usahog Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Ollie was a scape goat...

Hog
JonR Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Yo Rick:

Your statement:

"ollie is a convicted felon who was later pardoned. not innocent of the felony, just pardoned."

Yo Rick:

What do you do just make up crap as you go along? Show me proof that Col. Oliver North was convicted of a felony and then was pardoned (by whom ?).

You also stated in another post that GW was convicted of cocaine use on two occasions, show proof of two convictions.

Yo Rick: How happy you must be living in your make believe little world.

JonR
CWFoster Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
In the 1999 /2000 campaign a reporter asked Bush "is there any truth to the rumor that you used cocaine?" and he replied "I'm not going to dignify that with an answer!" The next day all the mainstream media ran the story "Bush refuses to deny cocaine use!" That doesn't constitute a confession, a conviction, or a single solitary witness in FOUR YEARS! The one "witness" that has been quoted (Bush's former sister-in-law) stated that when asked about cocaine use at Camp David she replied "Who would say something like that?" And the "journalist" who interviewed her wrote an "expose" that is being pumped by the Today Show all next week! But then, who EVER accused the mainstream media of bias?
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
usahog

i think so too.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
JonR

i beg your pardon. he was convicted of the felony and it was reversed on appeal because he was granted immunity(why?) in order to get his testimony.

you however are full of beans. i said bush had two dui convictions, nothing about cocaine convictions.

don't you know how to use a search engine?
CWFoster Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
So Rick, is there any truth to the rumor that you still beat Toby?
Herr Rabbit Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 07-13-2004
Posts: 104
Wow, a convicted felon. I gues that disquaifies his Stars and Purple Hearts. Of course his bravery under fire is disqualified, and like Kerry, he loved his men and stayed with them. Ooops, Kerry bugged out at his first opportunity so he could trash the men Ollie stayed to lead.

In fact, Ollie doesn't even have a 1st Amendment right to speak, even though he defended everyone else rights.

Give back your medals, Ollie, Kerry did. Or were they someone else's? But, don't we have a former President guiding Kerry's campaign who is a convicted perjurer? I'll take this political felon over Kerry any day.
MACS Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,867
C'mon Herr rabbit... that just depends on what your definition of "is" is.

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman". - Bill Clinton

Hey... didn't they make a movie about this guy? Yeah, with that Frankie Muniz kid... BIG FAT LIAR.
Herr Rabbit Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 07-13-2004
Posts: 104
Hmmm, I'm no lawyer, but doesn't "reversed on appeal" mean the felony is expunged? I'm no lawyer, but it seems logical.
Charlie Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Logical to most but not to Rick!

Charlie
niteorday Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 02-29-2004
Posts: 4,209
He gave back, oh, he can't remember, six or seven, eight or nine......
Herr Rabbit Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-13-2004
Posts: 104
Frankly, it appears all these threads on events of 30 years ago are petering out. It really just doesn't matter.

Mothers have now seen terrorists basically executing children for their cause and this has shocked them into reality.

They see two candidates, one who has never waivered from We will go after them and take the fight to them to one that no one yet knows what the hell he will do or even what he believes, other than Bush is bad.

Can anyone point me to anypost that has given one positive reason to vote for Kerry? I mean besides that he's not Bush.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
CWFoster

no.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Herr Rabbit

i'm no lawyer either, but expunged means it was erased or removed from the record, but before it was he had been convicted of a felony as i said.
usahog Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
he was charged of a Felony Rick... that was all..

enough for him to bow out of the Military...

Hog
JonR Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
The only thing Colonel Oliver North was ever convicted of was being a stand-up Marine.

Hell, but that's okay Rick just keep on making things up as you go along, we expect that of you senior citizens.

JonR
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
MACS(SW)

i'm no lawyer, but.

a brief explaination of the law. it is specific by it's words. if the speed limit 55, 56 is against the law by it's legal definition.

the definition of sex in the clinton case did not define oral sex as sex. if he drove 56, he was not speeding because the LETTER OF THE LAW is specific.
a little example of what it means.

if you define sex as intercourse only, then all the other things we do are not sex as defined by the LETTER OF THE LAW.

when clinton apologized, he did that for political reasons because most people would not understand the definition of the LETTER OF THE LAW.

when the "supreme court" annointed bush, by overturning florida's supreme court's ruling, they got away with it because there is no one to overturn their ruling. it was an act of partisanship that should never be overlooked by voters, but alas, congress could not get one senator to sign on to their demand for an investigation into the electoral college scandal, ie. the disinfranchisement of black voters.

why do you think clarence thomas is a supreme court judge, certainly not based on merit or skill.

a BJ might be considered sex by most of us, but in his case it was not part of the LETTER OF THE LAW.
JonR Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Wrong again Rick.

I'm no lawyer but I stayed at a Holiday Inn once.

JonR
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
JonR

i told you that you had a good sense of humor, and you do.
Herr Rabbit Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 07-13-2004
Posts: 104
The uber troll, ricky, never disappoints in his ignorance. Stunning legal explication, barrister.
eleltea Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
Did the Florida Supreme Court annoint Gore?
MACS Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,867
OMG... Rick? Are YOU explaining the "letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law" to ME??

Rick, buddy, I am a military policeman. I know the Manual for Courts-Martial and the Uniform Code of Military Justice like the back of my hand. It is my JOB to know these things.

Your blind support of slick willy, even though he broke both the letter AND the spirit of the law in this case, is just as bad as you claim the support for Bush is here by my conservative brothers.

You live in a glass house rick. Put the rocks down.
Thom Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 12-08-2003
Posts: 6,117
I agree with hog. Ollie was a scapegoat. He was a scapegoat for the President and the vice president.
MACS Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,867
He violated UCMJ article 134. Indecent acts with another.

Does it meet these elements?
1) That the accused committed a certain wrongful act with a certain person.
2) That the act was indecent; and
3) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline of the armed forces, or was of a nature to bring discredit to the armed forces.

He brought discredit to the entire friggin' country.

"Indecent - signifies that form of immorality relating to sexual impurity which is not only grossly vulgar, obscene, and repugnant to common propriety, but tends to excite lust and deprave the morals with respect to sexual relations".

Still want to talk letter and spirit Ricky?
CWFoster Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 12-12-2003
Posts: 5,414
Read "Shadow Warrior" by Felix Rodreguez (a former CIA field officer) for accounts of Ollies ignorance, and the lengths Democrats will go to diacredit a sitting Republican president!
Charlie Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Ollie North is a true war hero and a standup Marine! He did not run his mouth pointing fingers and beg for forgiveness for any actions that were taken. Covert operators are often given the bad rap, but Ollie is a real Marine and a great American!

Huuuuhah

Charlie
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Herr Rabbit

you find fault with my explaination?
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
MACS(SW)

i know from personal experience the ucmj, having received a few article 15's. not because of the spirit of the law, but because of the letter of the law.

i have no blind faith in president clinton. i know what he did wrong.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
MACS(SW)

are you suggesting clinton was tried under the ucmj. i don't think so.

i believe he was not even put on trial by a civilian court. his deposition about not having sex was true to the letter of the law, which in his deposition did not include a bj as sex.
Herr Rabbit Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 07-13-2004
Posts: 104
Ahh, Rick the uber troll, I find fault with your still fighting the battle of 2000. I appreciate your wasting time on it and the constant baiting.
Charlie Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Rick

Why dont you give up on 2000 and the war in Vietnam and post about things you are an expert on, old songs, old movies and birds!

Charlie
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