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Last post 19 years ago by tailgater. 21 replies replies.
Do you have time for Children?
Gene363 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,819
Do you have time for Children?

The other day, my nine year old son wanted to know why we were at war. My husband looked at our son and then looked at me. My husband and I were in the Army during the Gulf War and we would be honored to serve and defend our country again today. I knew that my husband would give him a good explanation.

My husband thought for a few minutes and then told my son to go stand in our front living room window. He said "Son, stand there and tell me what you see?"

"I see trees and cars and our neighbor's houses." he replied.

"OK, now I! want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the United States of America and you are President Bush."

Our son giggled and said, "OK."

"Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every house and yard on this block is a different country" my husband said.

"OK Dad, I'm pretending."

"Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and pretend you see Saddam come out of his house with his wife, he has her by the hair and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the face, he throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death. Their children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are screaming and crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids and they are afraid of their father. You see all of this, son.... what do you do?"

"Dad?"

"What do you do son?"

"I'd call the police, Dad."

"OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations. They take your call. They listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to help. What do you do then son?"

"Dad.......... but the police are supposed to help!" My son starts to whine.

"They don't want to son, because they say that it is not their place or your place to get involved and that you should stay out of it," my husband says.

"But Dad...he killed her!!" my son exclaims.

"I know he did...but the police tell you to stay out of it. Now I want you to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you're pretending is Saddam turn around and do the same thing to his children."

"Daddy...he kills them?"

"Yes son, he does. What do you do?"

"Well, if the police don't want to help, I will go and ask my next door neighbor to help me stop him." our son says.

"Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get involved as well. He refuses to open the door and help you stop him," my husband says.

"But Dad, I NEED help!!! I can't stop him by myself!!"

The other day, my nine year old son wanted to know why we were at war. My husband looked at our son and then looked at me. My husband and I were in the Army during the Gulf War and we would be honored to serve and defend our country again today. I knew that my husband would give him a good explanation.

My husband thought for a few minutes and then told my son to go stand in our front living room window. He said "Son, stand there and tell me what you see?"

"I see trees and cars and our neighbor's houses." he replied.

"OK, now I! want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the United States of America and you are President Bush."

Our son giggled and said, "OK."

"Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every house and yard on this block is a different country" my husband said.

"OK Dad, I'm pretending."

"Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and pretend you see Saddam come out of his house with his wife, he has her by the hair and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the face, he throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death. Their children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are screaming and crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids and they are afraid of their father. You see all of this, son.... what do you do?"

"Dad?"

"What do you do son?"

"I'd call the police, Dad."

"OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations. They take your call. They listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to help. What do you do then son?"

"Dad.......... but the police are supposed to help!" My son starts to whine.

"They don't want to son, because they say that it is not their place or your place to get involved and that you should stay out of it," my husband says.

"But Dad...he killed her!!" my son exclaims.

"I know he did...but the police tell you to stay out of it. Now I want you to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you're pretending is Saddam turn around and do the same thing to his children."

"Daddy...he kills them?"

"Yes son, he does. What do you do?"

"Well, if the police don't want to help, I will go and ask my next door neighbor to help me stop him." our son says.

"Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get involved as well. He refuses to open the door and help you stop him," my husband says.

"But Dad, I NEED help!!! I can't stop him by myself!!"

"WHAT DO YOU DO SON?" Our son starts to cry.

"OK, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask for help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and puffs out his chest. Guess what he does next son?"

"What Daddy?"

"He walks across the street to the old ladies house and breaks down her door and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire

and then...he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in the window and laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?"

"Daddy..."

"WHAT DO YOU DO?"

Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers, "I'd close the blinds, Daddy."

My husband looks at our son with tears in his eyes and asks him..."Why?"

"Because Daddy.....the police are supposed to help people who need them...and they won't help.... You always say that neighbors are supposed to HELP neighbors, but they won't help either...they won't help me stop him...I'm afraid....I can't do it by myself Daddy.....I can't look out my window an d just watch him do all these terrible things and...and.....do nothing...so....I'm just going to close the blinds....so I can't see what he's doing........and I'm going to pretend that it is not happening."

I start to cry.

My husband looks at our nine year old son standing in the window, looking pitiful and ashamed at his answers to my husband's questions and he says..."Son"

"Yes, Daddy."

"Open the blinds because that man.... he's at your front door...

"WHAT DO YOU DO?"

My son looks at his father, anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up his tiny fists and looks his father square in the eyes, without hesitation he says: "I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!! I'M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT

MOMMY OR MY SISTER, DAD!!! I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM!!!!!"

I see a tear roll down my husband's cheek and he grabs our son to his chest and hugs him tight, and says... "It's too late to fight him, he's too strong and he's already at YOUR front door son.....you should have stopped him BEFORE he killed his wife, and his children and the old lady across the way. You have to do what's right, even if you have to do it alone, before it's too late." my husband whispers.

THAT scenario ! I just gave you is WHY we are at war with Iraq

When good men stand by and let evil happen son, THAT is the greatest EVIL of all. Our President is doing what is right. We, as a free nation, must understand that this war is a war of humanity. WE must remove evil men from power so that we can continue to live in a free world where we are not afraid to look out our window so that my nine year old son won't grow up in a world where he feels that if he just "closes" that blinds the atrocities in the world won't affect him.

"YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT!, EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!"

BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN! BE PROUD OF OUR TROOPS!!

SUPPORT THEM!!! SUPPORT AMERICA SO THAT IN THE FUTURE

OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO CLOSE THEIR BLINDS..."
briguy151 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 09-22-2004
Posts: 611
I have only 1 comment for the above

"Out Fkin Standing" explanation
PMoreno349 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 07-05-2002
Posts: 665
I have a different comment...

This story is a crock of sap.

Helping the people of Iraq has very little to do with what is happening there. If that were true, there are many other examples of injustices to which we have closed our blinds, because there is nothing in it for us.

Come on... if it didn't benefit us, the blinds to Iraq would be closed. The question on the table is what is really the net benefit after we have made the sacrifices. And don't try to tell me it is the warm feeling of having helped the good people of Iraq. And, when you calculate the net benefit you may want to factor in the collateral damage to Iraqi civilians.
uncleb Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Nice story. Of course now there is a nine year old kid that is scarred for life.... but nice story.
billyjackson Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 2,860
Once again...label me unAmerican...but this story is bullsh!t.

First, it is entirely too scripted to be true. Since when does a 9 year old ever respond exactly the way you want/need them to? This "story" is merely a creation of dramatic amateurism.

Secondly, if it is true...even remotely...the parents should have their asses whipped for being psychologically abusive to the kid. What 9 year old needs to have such a graphic picture of why mom and dad think we are in Iraq? The kid can't do anything about it anyway.

But what do I know?
briguy151 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 09-22-2004
Posts: 611
Just to rebut my comment above: good story and thats what it exactly is. It is also open ended that can cause mucho mucho arguments.
ex.

1.Who in their right mind would do that to a child.
2.Its about Iraq but they neglect to state that if the neighbor didn't have oil and items of need the blinds would be closed.
3.That the media will show all that the child sees much differently to pursade his judgement on the hostile neighbor. If the media likes the child then the neighbor is bad, if not then the child is violent and irresponsible.

wow you could really battle this story to death too.
uncleb Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Billy,

"the parents should have their asses whipped for being psychologically abusive to the kid"

You are absolutely right. Anyone that would scar their kid like this should not have kids. Luckily it is fiction.
usahog Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
should they also move away from detroit and home school their children also?? WTF???

billy do you have kids?? any 9 yr olds or older?

"Helping the people of Iraq has very little to do with what is happening there. If that were true, there are many other examples of injustices to which we have closed our blinds, because there is nothing in it for us."

lets go back and talk a little about WWII shall we??
what did WE gain by helping France? or any of the other related country's during WWII?

Geez get real would ya??

and the above story true or not.. I explained this very simulaly to my 22 yr old daughter when she asked about the 911 movie a few weeks back.. I have also explained this simularly to other people I met signing them up to vote, who had questions about the war and about other issue's!!!!!

you can't close a blinds eye and shut your shades to the world!!!!

Hog
Cigarick Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-28-2002
Posts: 3,078
1. Violent, oppresive dictatorship.
2. Used chemical weapons to kill his own people.
3. Funded international terrorists.
4. Actively worked to develop nukes.
5. Attacked his neighbors.
6. Has huge oil resources at a time when oil from the usual sources is outrageously expensive.

Why is it Dem's can only see the last reason?
billyjackson Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 08-19-2002
Posts: 2,860
HOg...

No kids...don't want them...got a Nut Cut just to be safe.

Used similar explanation on your 22yr old....appropriate.

Whether I'm a father or not, I think it is **** to think this would be appropriate to say to a 9yr old. If my not having or wanting kids disqualifies me from that opinion...
usahog Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
my Children who are all grown now... but at the time would come home from school and ask questions like the one above.... hell they are asking questions not as technical at the age of 3-4... then when they start putting sentences together come the larger questions....

I never held anything back from discussion from my kids and always gave the best open ended responce I could give them... I also coached lil league for 3 yrs and it's nice to hear one of the kids who was on one of those teams see me and say thanks for being a coach for them growning up... this happened to me a couple times and the last being at my youngest daughters graduation this past may...

I do think it is important to give a child all the information and I would credit this father for how he explained it to his kid I would have done the same thing... I guess I would qualify in this world this day and age as an abusive father... So Be It...

My 3 kids are doing fine and I think they learned allot growing up with a stuanch father they had...

Hog
uncleb Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Hog,

It is one thing to be open and have frank discussions with your child ( I do it myself)... it is another to scare the living **** out of them as in this story.

Billy- Just because you do not have kids does not mean you can't voice your opinion. Keep piping in.

B
usahog Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
then what your saying is you refrain from such discussions from your kids Uncleb??

I'll hold my thought, and reflect and stand by my above statement...

Billy, what uncleb said!!!

Hog
SteveS Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
I see this as not necessarily being a TRUE story, but as an interesting parable ...

I no longer have children that young, but if I did and if they were to ask the question, I can see how the parable could easily be adapted to illustrate the same point without scaring the kid or causing him emotional trauma ...
uncleb Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
Hog,

I think Steve clarified what I was trying to say.

I beleive wholeheartedly in having frank and very open discussions with my kids. I have an 8year old boy and a 9year old girl. I am amazed at some of the discussions we have had on the subjects of sex, drugs, cigars (they don't like me smoking them), violence, terrorists (especially when we went to ground zero), etc. I also believe these discussions can and should be conducted in such a manner as not to strike fear into their hearts. At their ages it is not necessary and, I believe, can leave mental scars. These are just my opinions.
PMoreno349 Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 07-05-2002
Posts: 665
Hog,
Maybe I don't have all my facts straight, but Iraq is fundamentally different that WWII. Also, I am not trying to say that nothing good has come out of invading Iraq. It is easy to believe that the Iraqi people and many other factors are better off without Saddam. However, what is at issue here is the main purpose for invading Iraq. This parable (good point Steve) is so simplistic that it illicits a gut reaction in me, because it does not a true representation of how we are making the decision to enter Iraq and does not pay respect to the sacrifice that is made. I wish the motivation was so idealistic, and it is comforting to believe it. But I am afraid that idealism is a very small percentage of why we are there.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Cigarick

"Why is it Dem's can only see the last reason?"

IRAN, SAUDI, NO. KOREA, LIBYA, AND A FEW OTHER "SOVEREIGNTIES" you know what a sovereign country is don'e you. it's like their sovereign and like we treat them as a sovereignty because they are sovereign. ALL FIT THE FIRST FIVE AND SOME EVEN THE 6TH.

but you see he tried to kill my daddy and i don't like sadam and if it takes a hundred, excuse me, a thousand, excuse me, over a thousand dead american's, i'm gone to get him. those ragheads, excuse me, the iraqis are waiting with open arms for us to free them, after which they will setup road traps and bombs and all sorts of ways to kill their liberators.

i just don't understand why some people don't get it.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
when my kids were young, i taught reality and if at age 9 the country would have been in the same predicament, oh yes we were, i almost forgot vietnam, i would tell them again the same thing i told them back then. you don't need to get killed beause of some idiot"s idea of what this country should do.

i told them to read a little and come back with questions or answers as they did. and after very little reading, they said the french spent a lot of blood for nothing. why don't we let them have their freedom and not butt in.

i'll write you from canada if some politician decides to draft me instead of his own kids.
JonR Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
Yo Rick:

I was watching CNN just now and President George W. Bush made this statement; " I am a passionate conservative", I instantly thought of you. You know if you take away the facts that GW is President and extremely rich and has more friends of influence and is better educated and is handsomer and way taller then you are, why you two could be mistaken as twins.

JonR
uncleb Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 11-13-2002
Posts: 1,326
JonR, I think your right. As a matter of fact, the only difference I can see is that I would vote for Rick for POTUSA!

LMAO!
Cigarick Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 07-28-2002
Posts: 3,078
> if it takes a hundred, excuse me, a thousand, excuse me, over a thousand dead american's, i'm gone to get him.

A fraction of the numbers of Americans who died in Vietnam, Korea, and WW's II and I. Besides, I'm pretty sure most of them knew it could be a dangerous job before they signed up.

> those ragheads, excuse me, the iraqis are waiting with open arms for us to free them

Those must be your own thoughts, because I don't recall hearing or reading those words as being from the President. Besides, most of the Iraqis appreciate what we've done and are doing over there. The press just doesn't bother reporting it because it's not "news."

> after which they will setup road traps and bombs and all sorts of ways to kill their liberators.

Do you listen to the news at all? Most of the attacks are done by Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and the remnants of Saddam's military.
tailgater Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Are you folks insane?
You read the story, realize that the moral justification doesn't match your feelings, and cry over it as abusive to 9 year olds????

It's a friggin' story. Told to make a point.

This IS an oil war.
Because without Oil, Sadam would not have had the financial fortitude to build his army or support (potentially) terrorism worldwide.

If your neighbor is a known child molestor, and he eyes your children wantingly, do you wait for him to pounce on them?
You're a pacifist? OK, so you call the police regarding his actions. They tell you he's been ignoring their demands for 12 years now.
NOW what do you do?

I hope for your childrens sake that you don't take the Kerry "plan".
Because closing your blinds won't make the pervert go away.
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