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Gun Owners & Non-Gun Owners....
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DrafterX Offline
#1 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 8:57 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Subject: Gun Owners & Non-Gun Owners
Is it possible that a Yankee came up with a good idea? Vermont State Rep. Fred Maslack has read the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, as well as Vermont's own Constitution very carefully, and his strict interpretation of these documents is popping some eyeballs in New England and elsewhere. Maslack recently proposed a bill to register "non-gun-owners"and require them to pay a $500 fee to the state. Thus Vermont would become the first state to require a permit for the luxury of going about unarmed and assess a fee of $500 for the privilege of not owning a gun. Maslack read the "militia" phrase of the Second Amendment as not only the right of the individual citizen to bear arms, but as a clear mandate to do so. He believes that universal gun ownership was advocated by the Framers of the Constitution as an antidote to a "monopoly of force" by the government as well as criminals. Vermont's constitution states explicitly that "the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the State" and those persons who are "conscientiously scrupulous of bearing arms" shall be required to "pay such equivalent.." Clearly, says Maslack, Vermonters have a constitutional obligation to arm themselves, so that they are capable of responding to "any situation that may arise." Under the bill, adults who choose not to own a firearm would be required to register their name, address, Social Security Number, and driver's license number with the state. "There is a legitimate government interest in knowing who is not prepared to defend the state should they be asked to do so," Maslack says. Vermont already boasts a high rate of gun ownership along with the least restrictive laws of any state .... it's currently the only state that allows a citizen to carry a concealed firearm without a permit. This combination of plenty of guns and few laws regulating them has resulted in a crime rate that is the third lowest in the nation. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." This makes sense! There is no reason why gun owners should have to pay taxes to support police protection for people not wanting to own guns. Let them contribute their fair share and pay their own way. Sounds reasonable to me! Non-gun owners require more police to protect them and this fee should go to paying for their defense!


Film at 11.... Mellow
fishinguitarman Offline
#2 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 9:21 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2006
Posts: 69,152
Vermont already boasts a high rate of gun ownership along with the least restrictive laws of any state .... it's currently the only state that allows a citizen to carry a concealed firearm without a permit. This combination of plenty of guns and few laws regulating them has resulted in a crime rate that is the third lowest in the nation.




Nuff said
TMCTLT Offline
#3 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 9:46 AM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
fishinguitarman wrote:
Vermont already boasts a high rate of gun ownership along with the least restrictive laws of any state .... it's currently the only state that allows a citizen to carry a concealed firearm without a permit. This combination of plenty of guns and few laws regulating them has resulted in a crime rate that is the third lowest in the nation.




Nuff said




William, thanks for posting this, here in IN. State senator Richard Lugar has voted the last two times for gun control. Well this election cycle he is going to be challenged by another republican by the name of Richard Murdock who is a staunch supporter of gun rights. I hope Lugar will finally be saying goodbye to the career he's made of politics!!!
rfenst Offline
#4 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 9:57 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


With sole respect to the U.S Constitution, you have to just laugh at the idiot's "strict interpretation" that the Second Amendment requires gun ownership.

If gun ownership was intended to be mandatory, wouldn't the Second Amendment have simply been written to state so? How the hell can anyone in their right mind interpret the word "militia" to mandate ownership, particularly when the Second Amendment uses the word "right", not "shall" or "must".

Anyone who disagrees with me on this will need to show me, perhaps from the Federalist Papers and the like that the Framers' intendedour gun right to be "mandatory". In the alternative, a U.S. Supreme Court case that not only says so, but also requires such a contorted definition, will do.

What a joke with respect to the Second Amendment.
DrafterX Offline
#5 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 10:12 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
yes, it is a bit of a stretch Robert... I think it was intended to be though... Think
HockeyDad Offline
#6 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 10:14 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
I'm guessing that Vermont State Rep. Fred Maslack is a lawyer. They can interpret a rainy day out of pure sunshine!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#7 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 12:05 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. - James Madison, The Federalist Papers
DrMaddVibe Offline
#8 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 12:09 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
Perhaps if people actually READ the Federalist Papers...or even grabbed a primer on the subject as well as the Constitution these kinda questions would be moot.

Then again our Founding Fathers didn't have to PROVE something that wasn't there. We can thank the legal "reads" into the "interpretation" of these documents to muddy the waters.

Really...if people devoted as much time to grasping this as they do...Dancing With The Stars or American Idol...we MIGHT be able to get the republic back on track!
DrafterX Offline
#9 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 12:43 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Think
I'd move to Vermont if they would issue everyone M16's.... Mellow



well, maybe just long enough to get one... Mellow
DrMaddVibe Offline
#10 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 12:51 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." - Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers


M16...M17...whatever it takes.Frying pan
dubleuhb Offline
#11 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 1:06 PM EST
Joined: 03-20-2011
Posts: 11,350
I see this as a win win, as long as they buy an American made firearm.
rfenst Offline
#12 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 1:38 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
HockeyDad wrote:
I'm guessing that Vermont State Rep. Fred Maslack is a lawyer. They can interpret a rainy day out of pure sunshine!


Nah. Scalia is the only one skilled enough to be able to do that.
elk hunter Offline
#13 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 2:14 PM EST
Joined: 03-20-2009
Posts: 10,331
DrafterX wrote:
Think
I'd move to Vermont if they would issue everyone M16's.... Mellow



well, maybe just long enough to get one... Mellow


Just get licensed and go buy one...
DrafterX Offline
#14 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 2:38 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
elk hunter wrote:
Just get licensed and go buy one...




ya,,, prolly cheaper than moving to Vermont.... Mellow

maybe next year... already bought my toy this year... BigGrin
DadZilla3 Offline
#15 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 3:04 PM EST
Joined: 01-17-2009
Posts: 4,633
It's not as though they're planning to fine someone for not having health insurance or something absurd like that...
Mathen Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 3:17 PM EST
Joined: 05-27-2011
Posts: 2,338
DrMaddVibe wrote:

M16...M17...whatever it takes.


You make the best pop culture references of anyone on this board. I can't tell you how many times I've said "220, 221... whatever it takes" and been met with blank stares.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 3:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
Mathen wrote:
You make the best pop culture references of anyone on this board. I can't tell you how many times I've said "220, 221... whatever it takes" and been met with blank stares.



Yeah, I get accused by many for "posting others words as your original thoughts"...most are completely ignorant to the fact that I'm using movie references...music lyrics...or complete sarcasm to get a point across.

Mr.Mom is a movie that's aged wonderfully...in the face of the recession I'm surprised that Hollywood hasn't thought of remaking this!

I hope they don't but you know they can't help themselves.

It's like watching two trains getting ready to collide...you have to watch.whip
mtbat21 Offline
#18 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 4:39 PM EST
Joined: 10-31-2010
Posts: 26
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. - James Madison, The Federalist Papers

Now these are papers that should be required reading!Applause
DrMaddVibe Offline
#19 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 4:42 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
You'd THINK!

This is what the framers used as a sales pitch to the colonies!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#20 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 5:41 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fedi.htm

The FREE version...have at it!Whistle
DrMaddVibe Offline
#21 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 5:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
The power of establishing uniform laws of bankruptcy is so intimately connected with the regulation of commerce, and will prevent so many frauds where the parties or their property may lie or be removed into different States, that the expediency of it seems not likely to be drawn into question.


Oooof....that's another good one too!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#22 Posted: Fri, Aug 26 2011, 6:01 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,507
Actually...the Madison quote is inaccurate!Liar

It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.

But the quote I posted earlier is not right.
donutboy2000 Offline
#23 Posted: Tue, Aug 30 2011, 9:42 PM EST
Joined: 11-20-2001
Posts: 25,000
What do you call someone that does not own a gun?









































a victim !
Stinkdyr Offline
#24 Posted: Wed, Sep 7 2011, 9:01 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2009
Posts: 9,948
You don't need a gun, the police will protect you.............









you know, when they aren't porking trashy chix on the hood of the car to bribe their way out of speeding tickets.


Herfing
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#25 Posted: Wed, Sep 7 2011, 12:27 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
DadZilla3

THE GOVERNMENT CAN FINE YOU FOR DRIVING A CAR WITHOUT
LIABILITY INSURANCE.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#26 Posted: Tue, Sep 13 2011, 10:46 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
fishinguitarman Offline
#2

who are number one and number two?
ZRX1200 Offline
#27 Posted: Tue, Sep 13 2011, 10:48 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
RICK.

NUMBER ONE IS WHEN YOU PEE.

NUMBER TWO IS WHEN YOU POST!
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