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Last post 21 years ago by xrundog. 38 replies replies.
Palestinian homeland
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xrundog Offline
#1 Posted: Wed, Jun 19 2002, 11:02 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
After the recent spate of suicide bombings, the Pres. still espouses the establishment of a Palestinian homeland. This is shameless attempt at currying favor with the oil producing arab countries. The Palestinians want a homeland allright. It's called Israel! And Jews are not welcome. In this instance, the US should BUTT OUT! Colin Powell is mighty quiet. Wonder why?
E-Chick Offline
#2 Posted: Wed, Jun 19 2002, 4:29 PM EST
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
Well Dog, nobody wants to play on the Politics or Sports boards anymore :( They're too busy elsewhere. Maybe we can get LGC to add some comments here...I miss RICKAMAVEN!!!!
SteveS Offline
#3 Posted: Wed, Jun 19 2002, 5:32 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
No apparent solution to the problem ... even more complex than the "Irish problem" the Brits have in Ulster ... no one, absolutely NO one will be happy with any solution you can name ... shameless favor-currying? ... well, the presence of oil in the oil-rich countries that don't much care for Israel is a fact of life ... we've been jacked around by OPEC plenty but in the process, have learned that it's imperative we maintain the flow of that oil ... if we in our modest little forum here can come up with something even remotely workable, the entire bunch of world powers will beat the path to our door ... who among us will then be Pres? who SecState? ... who gets which jobs? ... no rush for the VICE pres job now, we've all got vices and plenty of 'em, I've noticed ... Someone has to take all the other jobs now ... who are the volunteers? ... sign up below
E-Chick Offline
#4 Posted: Wed, Jun 19 2002, 5:55 PM EST
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
I get to be Monica...
SteveS Offline
#5 Posted: Wed, Jun 19 2002, 6:12 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
In that case, I want to be Pres !!!!!!
xrundog Offline
#6 Posted: Wed, Jun 19 2002, 6:28 PM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
E-chick, if Bill has seen this board, he WISHES you were Monica. I think RICKMAVEN may be held hostage in the basement of Rush Limbaugh's house. Hang in there Rick! I'm holding up your end here! Oh! And if the gov. would encourage the development of alternative energy sources we could collectively thumb our noses at OPEC.
tailgater Offline
#7 Posted: Wed, Jun 19 2002, 7:02 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
"encourage the development of alternative energy sources" In other words:"Force". Why should the consumer market have to wait to be forced? If someone had a concept that would eliminate our dependence on fossil fuels, don't you think they'd patent it and go to market? In this day and age of loose venture capital (although somewhat tightened by the dot com fiascos) there surely would be somebody willing to dole out the necessary cash to fund such an idea. And if our tax dollars did go into the development of such a concept, then you'd probably complain about the New "Oil" companies that are inevitable with such a device. Don't get me wrong, I would truly love to eliminate our dependence of oil. But I just don't see how the government needs to play a role other than to incentivize renewable energy sources, which they already do in many areas.
E-Chick Offline
#8 Posted: Thu, Jun 20 2002, 8:44 AM EST
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
My American-made 'Vette will never run on electricity (Gore can go to H*LL)...it does need premium gas though, but I'm doing my part with synthetic oil, LOL! Isn't there enough oil in barrels somewhere to last 100's of years? Personally, I'm not a tree-hugging, bleeding heart. I wouldn't mind seeing 1000's of offshore oil rigs if it would mean flipping the bird at the A-RABS...in this case, flying the (Army,Navy, AF,USMC) bird OVER the stinking scum towelheads and dropping a load! I live near the ocean and enjoy it when I can, but if push comes to shove as it apparently is...is there anyone of us that would actually consider giving up our heating source, driving and whatever else 'oil' entails? Not me...
Charlie Offline
#9 Posted: Thu, Jun 20 2002, 1:46 PM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Echick, how could you say bad things about Al Gore (almost our President, but with the Grace of God he lost) when he wants to be everything for everybody? He would most surely be for a place called Palestine! And at the same time be bilking money from Israel and anybody else that would be stupid enough to listen to him! I am going to smoke a cigar and praise God that GWB won that election! Charlie
SteveS Offline
#10 Posted: Thu, Jun 20 2002, 2:56 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
In my wildest imagination, I cannot begin to imagine what the US would have done following 9/11 or what we'd be doing to prevent further attacks ... but the bleating that can be heard coming from the bleeding heart liberals, really frightens me ... I don't know what it will take for some of these people to get it through their heads, but obviously, direct attacks on our people and cities are not enough for some of them ... I must tell you, that Berkeley is the absolute ultimate in spouting the liberal line of BS ... their congresswoman cast the single vote against the president taking action, they removed flags from the city vehicles, including police and fire vehicles, saying they were "too militaristic" ... following these events, I began a boycott of all businesses in that city ... I will not eat, shop, or go to events of any sort there ... I know it's not the fault of the people who own those businesses, but part of my money would go in taxes to the city and I will not allow that to happen ... I have a small flag on my jacket lapel, I have one installed on the car (but not being tattered in the wind) and I put one up at home each day ... I do not consider myself a superpatriot, but simply as an ordinary American citizen ... I am in full and complete support of the actions of the President and his entire administration and am completely and utterly dumfounded by anyone who isn't ... I know GWB isn't perfect, but no president I've seen in my lifetime has been ... and Geo is a DAMN sight closer to perfect than most any other pres I can think of in my adult lifetime ... he knows his limitations, has surrounded himself with highly competent advisors and is taking positive action rather than wating to take some piddly reaction to others actions as others have done too many times in the past ... oddly enough, I only remember one other president who fit that description ... JFK ... and while he is widely well thought of now, was far from it right up until the hour of his death ... history will be the ultimate judge, but I'm confident how this era will turn out ...
Todog Offline
#11 Posted: Thu, Jun 20 2002, 3:44 PM EST
Joined: 05-05-2001
Posts: 804
Don't forget! If it wasn't for Al Gore's ingenuity, we all would not be able to communicate with each other on the great Internet!
SteveS Offline
#12 Posted: Thu, Jun 20 2002, 7:23 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
In Al Gore's dreams, maybe ... I've been SO disappointed by the choices we've had in candidates for President the last several elections ... gotta admit, GWB has stepped up and shown me something ... we got lucky he was elected instead of Al who can go right on dreaming about what he's accomplished ...
Charlie Offline
#13 Posted: Fri, Jun 21 2002, 4:10 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
SteveS, didn't Al Gore invent or create the Spotted Owl and I believe he helped found Microsoft!? Charlie
SteveS Offline
#14 Posted: Fri, Jun 21 2002, 5:36 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
You're absolutely right, Al DID help to invent the Spotted Owl but was not part of the group responsible for the creation of Microsoft but was part of the group trying to destroy them.
xrundog Offline
#15 Posted: Fri, Jun 21 2002, 10:29 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
I am nervous about all the former oil company execs in the current administration. I freely admit that. If they were all from the solar energy industry and were trying to jam that down our throats, I would also cry foul. The appearance of government in collusion with industry for the perpetuation of profits is there. I emphasize, APPEARANCE. Perhaps Bush and Cheney really DO have our interests at heart. I guess we can tell by how the country is doing economically by 2004. And by where Ken Lay is in 2004. My other point is: That by relying almost soley on the oil industry for energy production. By encouraging relations with other governments mainly for the production and transportation of oil. The Government EFFECTIVELY DISCOURAGES alternatives energy production sources.
tailgater Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Jun 21 2002, 6:53 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
My electric company is seeking to put 140 wind turbines off the coast of Cape Cod to provide electricity. The government isn't discouraging that. Huge pipelines for the transport and distribution of natural gas are being installed in the northern seas outside the coast of Nova Scotia. The government isn't discouraging that either. Although solar energy is of limited use in the northeast US, I believe most areas are given a tax incentive to convert their residential hot water to solar. How is that "discouraging" alternative sources? I agree with your comments regarding the "appearance" of potential indescretions, but don't understand the implication that current economic decisions should be viewed as a monopolistic push by Uncle Sam in favor of Big Oil. Enron would have collapsed with or with ****** Cheney as VP. Big Oil is big because of our national dependency on fossil fuels. Not because of the governmental good ol' boy network.
xrundog Offline
#17 Posted: Sat, Jun 22 2002, 1:58 PM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Well....yeah! We have a national dependancy on fossil fuels. Right. Man my head hurts! The collusion runs so deep and so wide and so far back in time that is hard for one mind to grasp the scope. I don't use the word conspiracy because that implies something hidden. And it's not. Consider this: The technology may exist for every home to have its own independant power source using hydrogen fuel cells. Augmented by solar panels perhaps. In the long run individual energy costs would be much lower. There are internal combustion engines which can burn hydrogen. Water is the only emission. The guys running the show say that if we are not all sucking from the same teat, the economy will collapse. That is the rationale driving the oil economy. It has been put forth that if alternative energy sources were really that great, the oil companies would market them. It is more cost efficient for them to squelch new technology and to keep pumping oil. Okay, that was not very well put but I'm not going to start over. It's off topic too. Someone start a new thread!
JonR Offline
#18 Posted: Sat, Jun 22 2002, 5:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
I just thought of something what if we found out we could run auto engines on urine and then found out only Arab urine works, just a thought. LOL JonR
xrundog Offline
#19 Posted: Sat, Jun 22 2002, 7:16 PM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Tailgater, I disagree about Enron. My theory(unproven) is that the Bush administration set the stage by allowing Enron to make oil tankers full of money from the California energy crisis. The big execs then sent the tankers to the Cayman Islands where the $$ was loaded into their personal secret accounts. Later they said: DAMN! Where did all that money go? We are supposed to believe that it never existed except on paper. Ken Lay got his. Didn't he? Maybe ****** Cheney did too. I know, baseless accusation. Just connecting those dots, filling in those blanks.
Charlie Offline
#20 Posted: Sun, Jun 23 2002, 6:50 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
You have been reading to many Robert Ludlom and Ken Follet novels! Charlie
xrundog Offline
#21 Posted: Sun, Jun 23 2002, 10:44 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Well Charlie, I am sure you have heard THIS before. "Fact is sometimes stranger than Fiction". And the Enron fiasco is mighty strange. Did you know that ****** Cheney has a pig's heart?
tailgater Offline
#22 Posted: Mon, Jun 24 2002, 7:46 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Cheney was chairman at Haliburton, not Enron. And to assume/imply/theorize that he and the government was in cahoots with Ken Lay is ridiculous. And I have read about the self contained fuel cells for residential energy. They work great, in theory. Truth is, even the guy that "invented" it doesn't use one. Did Big Oil pay him off, or simply "whack" him? You don't need to use the word "conspiracy" to make it clear you think there is one.
xrundog Offline
#23 Posted: Mon, Jun 24 2002, 10:11 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Allright 'gater! I know where Cheney worked. I put those sentences together as strange facts. Yes I made the second one up:D. It is NOT ridiculous to link Enron and Bush/Cheney. There are more items linking them than linked Clinton to Whitewater. And at least one boatload of Enron's money helped elect the administration. Why not a little tit for tat. Nothing new there. Some people really believe that the future of America is in the oil based economy. I think we could do better. However, I am not a scientist. Or an economist. Even they are pretty divided on the issue though. It is not a matter of opinion. One is right, one is wrong. We may not know the answer in our lifetimes. The real problem is that Money clouds the issue beyond any chance of resolution. Where are the true idealists when you need them?
SteveS Offline
#24 Posted: Mon, Jun 24 2002, 10:56 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
More items linking Bush/Cheney to Enron than linked Clinton to Whitewater??????? Are you kidding, or just unaware of the facts surrounding Whitewater?? As for a "boatload" of Enron's money helping to elect Bush, you're well aware, I'm sure, but just not mentioning it, that a similar "boatload" went into helping Al Gore NOT get elected ... those Enron boys did a first rate job of covering all bases ... and are you even remotely aware of the source of much of Clinton and Gore's funding?? The funding for not only Bush, but any other candidate EVER before is lily-white by comparison ... and, as for money clouding the issues, it's an old, old story ... I'll agree, it sure does cloud them, but that's nothing inimical to this administration ... money's been clouding issues since the dawn of time ...
xrundog Offline
#25 Posted: Mon, Jun 24 2002, 4:31 PM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
Steve, You may be right. There are probably more "links" in whitewater and enron than either of us will ever know. I was illustrating a point. Perhaps poorly. I shoot from the hip sometimes. get some interesting responses that way. Once in every generation or two, a man comes along who can not be swayed by money or power or women or fame. But who cares about humanity and making the world a better place. An idealist. Then he is promptly killed and we go about the business of politics.
tailgater Offline
#26 Posted: Mon, Jun 24 2002, 6:04 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
So we all agree that politicians in general take money from Big Oil and other multi billion dollar moguls. I still want to know exactly HOW the Federal Government is preventing "alternative" energy sources from becoming a reality. Am I naive to believe that the Capitalists in this world will not jump onto a better mousetrap? If not in the US, then why not elsewhere? Oil is BIG because it is the best game in town. For Now.
Charlie Offline
#27 Posted: Tue, Jun 25 2002, 5:46 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
We have thousands of "monuments" to the Energy Crisis of the 70's in the Palm Springs area and all around California! You might call them windmills and they were built by "captalists" who levereged millions of investor (suckers) dollars into a big alternative energy investment boom/bust! You have probably seen them in movies or in person, as they line the hillsides and desert spinning away! "Build it and the captalists will come"! Charlie
SteveS Offline
#28 Posted: Tue, Jun 25 2002, 6:24 AM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
Politcians take money from big oil? Sure they do! From ALL sources, big and small, but preferably BIG because big, after all, equals more $$$ ... do the contributions of those big interests buy influence or leverage for them?? An academic question ... it's always been that way and it always will be ... works in many ways and at many levels ... of course, those of us who are right tend to be critical of the Dems for their practices and the well-meaning, but misguided libs tend to be critical of the Reps, but ... oh, one other thing before I go ... the idealist mentioned above, the one who cared only for humanity ... no one like that has come along in my lifetime (which isn't really all that long a period, despite the geezer references I'v been having to put up with lately) ...
xrundog Offline
#29 Posted: Tue, Jun 25 2002, 10:54 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
The capitalist will do what ever makes him the most return for the least investment. Probably one of the rules of capitalism. And I'm one of them. The alternatives don't work. So I guess, in a capitalistic society, part of governments job is to give capitalists incentive to do what will benefit the society in the long term. By NOT doing that government perpetuates the status quo. Which may not be whats best for the long term. How's that 'gater? Last idealist as president: Jimmy Carter.
E-Chick Offline
#30 Posted: Tue, Jun 25 2002, 12:19 PM EST
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
You guys are soooo smart...I love listening to you! :)
SteveS Offline
#31 Posted: Tue, Jun 25 2002, 1:01 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
I will grant you that Jimmy Carter was idealistic and seems to have a genuine concern for people ... but he was also very ineffectual ... damn, don't make me think about the years preceeding him either, ok? Boy did we have some mistakes as prez, ... proof, I guess, that our system is a strong one and can survive ... and it'd have to be strong to have survived Johnson, Nixon, Ford and Carter in succession ... THAT lineup has to give you some idea of why I'm so happy to have the guy we've got ...
xrundog Offline
#32 Posted: Wed, Jun 26 2002, 7:33 AM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
E-chick, that's only 1 cent worth. Where's the other cent?
E-Chick Offline
#33 Posted: Wed, Jun 26 2002, 1:44 PM EST
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
And you smell good too!
Charlie Offline
#34 Posted: Thu, Jun 27 2002, 11:43 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Yassar Arafait probably stinks! Charlie
daveyg2 Offline
#35 Posted: Thu, Jun 27 2002, 1:36 PM EST
Joined: 04-24-2002
Posts: 288
If anyone wants peace, they need to build a wall, have a buffer zone and Palestine needs a homeland. Or else this crap will go on at the same intensity as it has recently been. Dont get me wrong, if I were Israel I'd probably gank their asses hard.
SteveS Offline
#36 Posted: Thu, Jun 27 2002, 1:44 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
I know that I sometimes come across as though I think that I know everything ... I don't, though I am fairly well informed and DO have pretty strong opinions which I am sometimes all too willing to state ... I have absolutely NO idea what the long-term Israel/Palestine solution is, but I will point to Ireland as an all too vivid illustration that partitioning will NOT work ... in the more than 80 years of Ireland having been partitioned, peace has remained as elusive as it was before ... the problems are even worse in the case of Israel and Palestine ... there could not be a wall high enough or thick enough to get the job done ...
daveyg2 Offline
#37 Posted: Thu, Jun 27 2002, 2:20 PM EST
Joined: 04-24-2002
Posts: 288
You dont think that any sort of physical barrier would work? How could you think that? If you cant get over it, and there are armed guards that are guarding it, dont you think that it would prevent a lot of casualties? It would then allow the people guarding it, to be able to concentrate their forces in particular areas that would be more compromising.
You dont think that the violence in Ireland and England is just a little less than Israel? C'mon now. In addition to any sort of barrier, you wouldnt think that there should be a buffer zone between them? This would also make it 100 times harder to get in to the country.
You have to understand that there will never be complete peace there or anywhere, it just trims down tragic incidents a LOT. Thats all were looking for here. Peace will only come with time. And there needs to be an individual state for them in order to have that. For now, to seriuosly curtail the terrorist events, there must be more serious good old fashioned security in place. To say that putting barriers in place would do nothing, is obsurd.
Charlie Offline
#38 Posted: Thu, Jun 27 2002, 2:45 PM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
I think a physical barrier with the Israeli Soldiers standing guard over the "wall" (PLay Pink Floyd's The Wall) would keep the trash, whoops Palesteinians, confined to their side of the barrier! Charlie
xrundog Offline
#39 Posted: Thu, Jun 27 2002, 3:20 PM EST
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
I will say it because I think it's true. There will be lasting peace in Israel when one side is dead. It's sadder when you realize they are racially the same people(to a large degree) and all worship the God of Abraham.
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