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Last post 11 years ago by cacman. 39 replies replies.
It's getting hot in here...so take off all yo clothes
teedubbya Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
He finally came around to what other climate scientists have been spouting for years. Richard A. Muller, a physics professor at the University of California-Berkeley, announced over the weekend that his much-publicized investigation into climate data has found that humans' production of carbon dioxide is causing the world to slowly warm up. And this process could speed up dramatically in the coming years.

Muller's conclusions attract special attention because of his vocal self-styling as a converted climate change skeptic. Muller criticized global warming studies for sloppy and self-serving data selection and a lack of transparency that obscured errors; he then lambasted fellow scientists for circling the wagons and calling any climate change deniers wrong. Muller says he's still upset that the American Physical Society declared the evidence for warming "incontrovertible" a few years ago in an official statement.

"We don't do things in science that are incontrovertible," Muller said in an interview with Yahoo News.

Muller took matters into his own hands and embarked on his own investigation into the data with his daughter Elizabeth and a team of scientists two years ago. His Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project attracted funding from the Charles Koch Charitable Foundation, the nonprofit outfit of a wealthy businessman who denies that global warming is happening. Three years later, Muller ended up surprising himself when his research confirmed everything those same studies that drew his skepticism concluded, and then some. Muller says his study's results are more reliable than many previous ones because he intentionally avoided the data pitfalls he objected to, such as only using a portion of the global temperatures available. (He expounds on his methods here.)

Muller's study has not yet been published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal, but he says he plans to do so at some point. One climate scientist, Benjamin D. Santer, told the Los Angeles Times he thinks posting the study online and not in a journal is in "the spirit of publicity, not the spirit of science" and may do more to hurt the global warming cause than help it. But Muller wants to get feedback on his methods and to share his results with everyone, avoiding what he sees as a secrecy and lack of transparency that surrounded earlier climate change studies.

Though Muller is now entirely convinced that the Earth is warming due to man-made causes, he still expresses disdain for people who try to raise passions around the issue by pointing to local weather events, such as the drought scorching up America's Midwest right now, as proof of the phenomenon. (He attributes the drought to La Niña, a temporary cooling of the ocean.) The effects of global warming on local weather patterns are unknown, and even as two-thirds of the world has heated up, another one-third has shown a gradual cooling over the past 250 years, he says. The overall effect is a troubling global warming, but Muller has no patience for simplifications that stray from the truth.

"I'm personally very worried," he says of global warming. Muller says that so far the warming has been "tiny," but that everything points to the process speeding up. "I personally suspect that it will be bad."

Muller is now wading into another controversy, by endorsing the process of natural gas extraction called fracking for developing countries, which tend to rely more on coal. Coal production creates more carbon dioxide, but fracking has also drawn its share of environmentalist critics.

"I believe the only kind of action that is sustainable is that which is profitable, and fortunately we can do that," he says. "We can become much more energy efficient."

..
daveincincy Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
Quote:
...his much-publicized investigation into climate data has found that humans' production of carbon dioxide is causing the world to slowly warm up. And this process could speed up dramatically in the coming years.


Probably due to the increase in politicians and protestors. Good...now that we know the problem, let's find a solution to eradicate these global warming freaks. Applause

victor809 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Jackass....

His critics are right, his data needs to go through peer review. I'm very skeptical of someone who is unwilling to submit their study to peer review. Until that happens it is suspicious results.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,550
If you were a scientist, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable Scientific system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a peer review -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
daveincincy Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
Jesus went through peer review...you see how that worked out for him. Jus' sayin.





































LOL


























Sarcasm
daveincincy Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
DrMaddVibe wrote:
If you were a scientist, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable Scientific system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a peer review -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.


Wasn't it Alexander Fleming who said, "if it weren't for these government built roads and bridges, nobody would ever see the benefits of my penicillin."
tailgater Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
"... One climate scientist, Benjamin D. Santer, told the Los Angeles Times he thinks posting the study online and not in a journal is in "the spirit of publicity, not the spirit of science" and may do more to hurt the global warming cause than help it...."


Why does the study of climate change attract so many yahoos?
From the guy that the article is about, to this quack Santer.
But at least Santer is honest. He admits that there exists a "global warming cause" within the scientific community.

Lets any of you forget, if someone belongs to a "cause", wouldn't their opinions be biased? Wouldn't the interpretation of data be skewed in order to support their cause?

This is true from both sides of TW's fence, but due to politics there are many more that support the "cause" of man-made climate change.





Kawak Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 11-26-2007
Posts: 4,025
Global warming skeptic and meteorologist Anthony Watts, whose wattsupwiththat.com website has been called the "world's most viewed climate website," released a scientific discussion paper yesterday that crushes the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's [NOAA's] "global warming" data claims. The study, co-authored with Dr. John R. Christy of the University of Alabama at Huntsville, Stephen McIntyre of Toronto, Canada, and Evan Jones of New York, concluded that "reported 1979-2008 U.S. temperature trends are spuriously doubled, with 92% of that over-estimation resulting from erroneous NOAA adjustments of well-sited stations upward."

In an exclusive interview with Breitbart News this morning, co-author Dr. John R. Christy, an internationally recognized climate change expert, explained the significance of the findings:


In 2010, the World Meteorological Organization adopted a new standard for temperature collection stations. This discussion paper is the first to apply that standard. The finding is that when the new class scheme was applied to weather stations, the stations considered compliant had cooler trends than non-compliant stations.
In a press release issued from his offices in Chico, California yesterday, lead researcher Anthony Watts explained the significance of the new standards and the resultant findings of the study:

A reanalysis of U.S. surface station temperatures has been performed using the recent WMO-approved Siting Classification System devised by METEO-France's Michel Leroy. The new siting classification more accurately characterizes the quality of the location in terms of monitoring long-term spatially representative surface temperature trends...

Today, a new paper has been released that is the culmination of knowledge gleaned from five years of work by Anthony Watts and the many volunteers and contributors to the SurfaceStations project started in 2007.

This prepublication draft paper, titled An area and distance weighted analysis of the impacts of station exposure on the U.S. Historical Climatology Network temperatures and temperature trends...is to be submitted for publication [in an academic journal]. . .

Using Leroy 2010 methods, [this paper] concludes that these factors, combined with station siting issues, have led to a spurious doubling of U.S. mean temperature trends in the 30 year data period covered by the study from 1979-2008. (emphasis added)

Co-author Christy explained that the decision by lead researcher Anthony Watts to release the discussion paper for public review was an innovation in academic research, pioneered, ironically, by global warming "converted skeptic" Richard Muller:






Releasing this as a discussion paper is like a pre-vetting process. If legitimate things are found, corrections will be made prior to submission to a peer reviewed academic publication. Richard Muller is the only one who has done this before. For me it's an experiment. So far, it's a wild ride. If you look on the blogs you'll see there are already hundreds of comments. We're looking through those comments.



The bits of responses I've gotten from academic types so far are mainly curiosity because this is a whole new world. Responses are all over the map. Some have thought it's been strange. For me, it is a way you can find errors quickly.

Christy added that when and where the study will be submitted for peer reviewed academic journal publication will be determined by lead researcher Anthony Watts:







"That's up to Anthony Watts. He's the lead researcher. I imagine he'll look at publications such as Science, the Journal of Geophysical Research, and the Journal of Climate. What you're seeing here is the evolution of the academic publication process with this kind of [public release of a discussion paper]."



In yesterday's press release Watts acknowledged that "the pre-release of this paper follows the practice embraced by Dr. Richard Muller, of the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature Project." Watts quoted Muller's 2011 Scientific American interview, where he described the practice:


I know that is prior to acceptance, but in the tradition that I grew up in (under Nobel Laureate Luis Alvarez) we always widely distributed "preprints" of papers prior to their publication or even submission. That guaranteed a much wider peer review than we obtained from mere referees.

Look for the mainstream media to give this new study by Watts and his colleagues a very cool reception.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/30/New-Study-Crushes-Global-Warming-Data-Claims
teedubbya Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Imma gonna invent a car that rund on ground up spotted owls and prius owners!
daveincincy Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2006
Posts: 20,033
tailgater wrote:
Why does the study of climate change attract so many yahoos?


Because there's big [government] money available.

teedubbya wrote:
Imma gonna invent a car that rund on ground up spotted owls and prius owners!


HGAF Laugh
victor809 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
F&cking idiots.

Both of them are absolute media grabbing, pandering idiots.

"use it to find errors quickly"? That's bs. If there are errors in your scientific paper which can be identified by a jackass on the internet then your work was sh%t to begin with.

The only reason to publish on the internet before peer review is because they don't think it will actually pass peer review and they want to try to get the public exposure before that. They're hoping that no one will notice when it never makes it into a real journal.

Both of them are ass-clowns.
victor809 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
And for the record, Watts is a weatherman. He has no education beyond an undergrad so probably has no understanding of a peer review process. Additionally, an admittedly cursory look at wikipedia points out that the study of weather stations he was talking about ended up with results pointing in the opposite direction of what he's claiming.

Some individuals might claim that he won't be able to get his study published because of a "cause". I say it's most likely because he has no education and likely has no idea how to put together a basic publishable research paper using rigorous scientific methods.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,550
victor809 wrote:
F&cking idiots.

Both of them are absolute media grabbing, pandering idiots.

"use it to find errors quickly"? That's bs. If there are errors in your scientific paper which can be identified by a jackass on the internet then your work was sh%t to begin with.

The only reason to publish on the internet before peer review is because they don't think it will actually pass peer review and they want to try to get the public exposure before that. They're hoping that no one will notice when it never makes it into a real journal.

Both of them are ass-clowns.



That's right! You tell 'em! Expose them for what they are! The ENTIRE world is waiting with baited breath for YOUR response on this matter. You're the subject matter expert on everything! You're a GOD among mortal men! When you walk into a room everyone bows before the greatness that you are. If a beam of light were to shine out of your butt it would be a beacon of YOU so everyone would know where to find you and they could ask you questions instead of logging on to Yahoo! or AskJeeves.com for help!

Please...continue and bore us all to death with your point of view! Do you really think anyone takes you seriously?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,550
victor809 wrote:
And for the record, Watts is a weatherman. He has no education beyond an undergrad so probably has no understanding of a peer review process. Additionally, an admittedly cursory look at wikipedia points out that the study of weather stations he was talking about ended up with results pointing in the opposite direction of what he's claiming.

Some individuals might claim that he won't be able to get his study published because of a "cause". I say it's most likely because he has no education and likely has no idea how to put together a basic publishable research paper using rigorous scientific methods.



If you were a weatherman, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable Weathering system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got results -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
dubleuhb Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 03-20-2011
Posts: 11,350
The world has warmed and cooled for how long ? What makes you think we have anything to do with it ? It's all speculation and not a one of us will be here long enough to confirm either way, relax!!
teedubbya Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
smog has always existed
dstieger Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
Maybe Watts should go underground
DrMaddVibe Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,550
dstieger wrote:
Maybe Watts should go underground



and LEAVE the Rolling Stones?

That's crazy talk!
teedubbya Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrMaddVibe wrote:
and LEAVE the Rolling Stones?

That's crazy talk!


yea he doesn't fit well with the velvet or digital underground
dstieger Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
But then he'd get to blow stuff up
DrMaddVibe Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,550
dstieger wrote:
But then he'd get to blow stuff up



Stop wat yer doin'...cuz I'm 'bout ta ruin...
bloody spaniard Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Think
You guys remind me a little of the autistic guy in Diner who memorized the dialogue in From Here to Eternity.RollEyes
DrMaddVibe Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,550
bloody spaniard wrote:
Think
You guys remind me a little of the autistic guy in Diner who memorized the dialogue in From Here to Eternity.RollEyes



Thank Gawd...you didn't call me Vic's brother or rubby teammate! I can handle being the autistic guy in a diner spouting the Classics!
bloody spaniard Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Thank Gawd...you didn't call me Vic's brother or rubby teammate! I can handle being the autistic guy in a diner spouting the Classics!



No, I would never call you Victor Victoria. Besides he only quotes Che.
riverdog Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 03-28-2008
Posts: 2,600
teedubbya wrote:
Imma gonna invent a car that rund on ground up spotted owls and prius owners!


Paraphrasing James Watt, circa 1980, no doubt.fog
bloody spaniard Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
Would someone please make the perfect post so that I can know what to think?
DrafterX Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,577
Beer
bloody spaniard Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
riverdog wrote:
Paraphrasing James Watt, circa 1980, no doubt.fog


Ditcha ever notice that Watt's head was shaped like a 60 watt bulb? Jus' sayin'.
HockeyDad Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
tailgater wrote:
"
This is true from both sides of TW's fence, but due to politics there are many more that support the "cause" of man-made climate change.




There's is more money to be made in supporting the idea of man-made climate change. If it is man-made, enough dollars could be throw at it to fix it. (Hint: Cone of Protection and whatnot.)

Disclaimer: This post is not to be construed as an admission that Le HockeyDad is involved in any way with profiteering from man-made climate change man-made reversal.
HockeyDad Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
DrMaddVibe wrote:
If a beam of light were to shine out of your butt it would be a beacon of YOU



I'm thinking it would be more like some sort of ghey batman signal of something.
HockeyDad Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
bloody spaniard wrote:
Would someone please make the perfect post so that I can know what to think?



We globalists control everything.


(You're welcome)
dstieger Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
I think 27 handled 26 perfectly. Well said, D.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,550
HockeyDad wrote:
I'm thinking it would be more like some sort of ghey batman signal of something.



Ahem...that's the same thing!
riverdog Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 03-28-2008
Posts: 2,600
bloody spaniard wrote:
Ditcha ever notice that Watt's head was shaped like a 60 watt bulb? Jus' sayin'.


...and with a similar vacuum inside.d'oh!
bloody spaniard Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 03-14-2003
Posts: 43,802
riverdog wrote:
...and with a similar vacuum inside.d'oh!


Hey, it may be dim but it gets the job done...Anxious
riverdog Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 03-28-2008
Posts: 2,600
Ahhh well, at least his mama was proud of him, bless his heart.
cacman Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Understood that the planet goes through natural heating and cooling stages. Was interesting to learn the famed Stradivarius was made from wood form our last mini ice age. The wood had much smaller growth rings compared to much later years which contributed to a better tone.

What makes sense to me is the population grows producing more CO2, while rain forests which provide oxygen are devastated. Add pollution on top of that... there's got to be some effect on the eco-system.
HockeyDad Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,187
cacman wrote:
Understood that the planet goes through natural heating and cooling stages.



With enough government funding, we can stop that.
cacman Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
HockeyDad wrote:
With enough government funding, we can stop that.

HA!!! They can control their own "Servants of the Public", let alone the Post Office, SS, or the new health-care plan. They can't do squat.

Recycle folks. Just look at the amount of paper & plastic people bag-up in plastic bags for the landfills!!! I swear I bundle, burn, or recycle a good piece of a tree each month just in junk-mail and newspapers.
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