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Last post 9 years ago by delta1. 45 replies replies.
VA working with FBI to strip Vets of Right to Bear Arms
TMCTLT Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Their right to bear arms after service......I found this online and it was written by a Vet who HAS BEEN put through this process. Thought there may be some interest on this subject here for our Vets rather active or retired. And again...Thank you ALL for your service!!!!!!!

It is a bit of a long read but one I think you'll find useful.

Paul



The VA tried to do this to me. I am an Iraq veteran with a TBI and PTSD rating and some other minor disabilities. As I left the Army they had low balled my ratings, so badly low balled them that when I had my case reviewed the reviewer saw the doctors name and groaned and rolled her eyes saying "Oh it's from Dr Lowball!". My appeal took over a year to go through the system and finally when it was about to be approved I checked the VA's online information system and noticed my appeal had been withheld to review my "competency". For those vets who are going to go through this here are some tips.

Let me explain how this process works. It's an extrajudicial process. This incompetency matter is done simply by the bureaucrats at the Veterans administration. First they will mail you a form letter saying that they are in the process of declaring you incompetent and you have X (Usually about 30 days) amount of time to respond. IF YOU DO NOT respond within the allotted time they will rubber stamp the incompetency claim and you are from then forward Incompetent and must select a Fiduciary to continue receiving your benefits. Since it's extrajudicial you can only appeal it to them. However after multiple appeals you may take it to "grown up court" in the federal courts. The appeal will be a lengthy and expensive process and no lawyers will want to help you so you will be on your own. It's important you watch your correspondence from the VA to head off that letter and if you are in the process of an appeal CHECK THAT APPEAL online at ebenefits often to make sure it hasn't been put into a competency phase. Probably 90% of the Veterans they hit with his were caught up because they weren't reading the correspondence they receive from the VA. I know they send you several national forests worth of paper every year but you need to read EVERY one of those letters.

Here is a tip to head this off. The process for declaring you incompetent is an extrajudicial policy procedure that is being misapplied by this administration. Basically what the code says is that since the VA is the one giving you money if THEY believe you are incompetent they can declare you incompetent and demand a fiduciary handle your VA funds. However because of gun control laws from the 90's this extrajudicial process was allowed to be entered as a barr from gun ownership in NICS checks. However the federal code the allows them to declare you incompetent requires that the medical evidence points to you being clearly incompetent and if there is any doubt of your incompetency they have to rule in your favor. This is listed under 38 CFR 3.353 (c) and (d).

(c) Medical opinion. Unless the medical evidence is clear, convincing and leaves no doubt as to the person's incompetency, the rating agency will make no determination of incompetency without a definite expression regarding the question by the responsible medical authorities. Considerations of medical opinions will be in accordance with the principles in paragraph (a) of this section. Determinations relative to incompetency should be based upon all evidence of record and there should be a consistent relationship between the percentage of disability, facts relating to commitment or hospitalization and the holding of incompetency.

(d)

Presumption in favor of competency.

Where reasonable doubt arises
regarding a beneficiary's mental capacity to contract or to manage his
or her own affairs, including the disbursement of funds without
limitation, such doubt will be resolved in favor of competency (see ยง 3.102 on reasonable doubt).

A quick tip to head this off despite their misapplication of this code to push their gun banner agenda is to make sure EVERY time you see ANY provider at the VA you demand that they enter into your file (because they make an entry for every visit) that you are competent to handle your own affairs. If they refuse to do it fire them and get a new doctor, stand your ground. The reason is these same files later will be used as evidence for or against you in that competency determination. EVERY entry counts. This is how I headed off their attempt to declare me"incompetent".

IF you are in the process of appealing their "incompetency" ruling don't be afraid to point to the law. Print it out and take it with you. Demand that they rule in your favor as they are required to do so when there is reasonable doubt of your incompetency. Point out that your prepared self defense alone points to your competency but also have your credit record and past bank statements handy to point to your financial competency. If you have accounts in collections clear them up prior to your appeal hearing. If you are in recovery get statements from your sponsors and fill out a FOIA request for your records regarding your recovery and psychiatric appointments. The psychiatrist will flat out tell you that they can't make a statement in your favor BUT they can make entries to your record. HINT, have them put their glowing report of your recovery process in your record with a statement regarding how you are financially competent. As I said before, it's your own medical records they are using as evidence against you and you have some control over what gets put in those records when you see your healthcare providers.

When they attempted to do this to me no one could give me a clear answer as to why they would try to declare me "incompetent" some said it was because in any appeal where the award would have more than 20k in backpay it is "automatic" and others either had no answer or said it was because of my "psychiatric disability (PTSD) since competency was never a prior concern in my records. The only thing that saved me was my doctors were willing to go to bat for me and make those entries into my file. Make no mistake they ARE doing this to veterans in a widespread program, if you appeal your rating they will likely do it to you too. Head it off at the pass and make sure there are entries in your records proclaiming your financial competency
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Those Bassards..!! Mad
Gene363 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,838

There are Vets not seeking care they are owned for just this reason, truly disgusting.

Another reason I hope a meteor strikes DC. Whistle Whistle Whistle
TMCTLT Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Gene363 wrote:
There are Vets not seeking care they are owned for just this reason, truly disgusting.

Another reason I hope a meteor strikes DC. Whistle Whistle Whistle



Yessir 63 miles of deceit and corruption......one small one outa do the job Gene.
Speyside Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
T, this is shocking, but unfortunately what I have come to expect from our government as it relates to veterans.
Hillbillyjosh770 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 02-09-2014
Posts: 2,999
Nothing is surprising anymore
teedubbya Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I think everyone should be able to bare arms. I also think they should take care of themselves so we don't have to see flabby gross arms.
victor809 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Ok... I'm going to take the unpopular stance here.

A guy gets diagnosed with Traumatic Brain Injury and PTSD, in his own words (assuming this isn't a fake chain letter) he claims they are minor disabilities. Cool.... no problem, get on with your bad self and buy a bunch of guns and shoot things.

But then he decides his disability rating was "lowballed"... he WANTS the federal government to consider him more disabled than they currently do. He requests the federal government increase his disability rating.... a disability rating related to brain injury and PTST.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that if the federal government is going to consider your mental and emotional state more disabled, they may consider you incompetent to represent yourself....

As for the gun restrictions... hell, I don't care. I still support every single person's right to have every single gun they want. I don't personally care if they are declared mentally incompetent, insane or simply think they are satans angel of death... let them strap on.

But seriously... it takes a special sort of naivete to assume that when you ask the federal government to declare you more mentally disabled, that they won't go all in on that.
TMCTLT Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
Speyside wrote:
T, this is shocking, but unfortunately what I have come to expect from our government as it relates to veterans.



I couldn't agree more, and I sadly think it's being done with the greatest of intent both from a $$ standpoint and to strip them of their ability to " Defend against an Out of Control Federal Government " as this is / was part of their decree when signing up and the Feds know that the majority took that pledge VERY seriously.
TMCTLT Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
Ok... I'm going to take the unpopular stance here.

A guy gets diagnosed with Traumatic Brain Injury and PTSD, in his own words (assuming this isn't a fake chain letter) he claims they are minor disabilities. Cool.... no problem, get on with your bad self and buy a bunch of guns and shoot things.

But then he decides his disability rating was "lowballed"... he WANTS the federal government to consider him more disabled than they currently do. He requests the federal government increase his disability rating.... a disability rating related to brain injury and PTST.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that if the federal government is going to consider your mental and emotional state more disabled, they may consider you incompetent to represent yourself....

As for the gun restrictions... hell, I don't care. I still support every single person's right to have every single gun they want. I don't personally care if they are declared mentally incompetent, insane or simply think they are satans angel of death... let them strap on.

But seriously... it takes a special sort of naivete to assume that when you ask the federal government to declare you more mentally disabled, that they won't go all in on that.





You always do.....no surprise there. How does one know for certain that these people the Gov. has doing the interviews have NOT been " schooled " on how and what to ask to get the desired outcome???? And BTW I didn't know rockets required " surgeons " to work on them......Leave it to you though to come up with a " singular " situation to justify what they're doing.
victor809 Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
It isn't a singular situation. If he didn't ask to be rated as more mentally disabled than they initially had, he wouldn't have ever faced the "incompetency" problem. He literally said to the federal government "Hey, you guys know what? I think you gave me wayyyy too much credit when you said I was only 15% mentally disabled... I think you should declare me more mentally disabled"... they said "OK".

As for the rocket surgeon thing... this can't be the first time you've seen that joke.
teedubbya Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
I was just kidding about the whole bare arms thing too. I assumed folks could figure that out but just in case.
TMCTLT Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
It isn't a singular situation. If he didn't ask to be rated as more mentally disabled than they initially had, he wouldn't have ever faced the "incompetency" problem. He literally said to the federal government "Hey, you guys know what? I think you gave me wayyyy too much credit when you said I was only 15% mentally disabled... I think you should declare me more mentally disabled"... they said "OK".

As for the rocket surgeon thing... this can't be the first time you've seen that joke.



I didn't see anywhere where the Vet requested to be rated "more mentally ill " It was the VA who upon seeing that the Dr. who rated him was known BY THEM ( the paper pushers ) as Dr Lowball.....This IS a case of THIS administration and it's DOJ under Holder once again conducting business AS THEY SEE FIT......

And the rocket surgeon thingy.....nice cover
TMCTLT Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
teedubbya wrote:
I was just kidding about the whole bare arms thing too. I assumed folks could figure that out but just in case.



Um yeah that was pretty clear and actually somewhat humorous.....Vicki's rocket surgeon thingy....not so much
teedubbya Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
You are a regular brain scientist
teedubbya Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Any by you I mean the twos of ya
victor809 Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
TAs I left the Army they had low balled my ratings, so badly low balled them that when I had my case reviewed the reviewer saw the doctors name and groaned and rolled her eyes saying "Oh it's from Dr Lowball!". My appeal took over a year to go through the system and finally



why would there be a "review" and an "appeal" if he had been satisfied with Dr Lowball's initial estimate?

http://www.snorgtees.com/it-s-not-rocket-surgery?gclid=CjwKEAjwjd2pBRDB4o_ymcieoAQSJABm4ego8ZnJqbI0NA_MEOs5pC5RNwRD9r3ZnXcvM1AAz4CM4xoCs_jw_wcB#494=10&76=15&493=19


I think it's hilarious the stupid things you always think you "got me" on. You must not get out much.
TMCTLT Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
why would there be a "review" and an "appeal" if he had been satisfied with Dr Lowball's initial estimate?

http://www.snorgtees.com/it-s-not-rocket-surgery?gclid=CjwKEAjwjd2pBRDB4o_ymcieoAQSJABm4ego8ZnJqbI0NA_MEOs5pC5RNwRD9r3ZnXcvM1AAz4CM4xoCs_jw_wcB#494=10&76=15&493=19


I think it's hilarious the stupid things you always think you "got me" on. You must not get out much.



You of all people should recognize stupid......like your thinking this soldier had anything to do with HIS rating. Unless I completely missed ( and I don't believe did ) it was the governments rocket surgeons as you put it who questioned and drug out his review.....

Hilarious is YOU always thinking " YOUR SO SMART " d'oh!

And I liked life better when I had your posts blocked.....Back You GO Troll....
victor809 Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
You of all people should recognize stupid......like your thinking this soldier had anything to do with HIS rating. Unless I completely missed ( and I don't believe did ) it was the governments rocket surgeons as you put it who questioned and drug out his review.....

Hilarious is YOU always thinking " YOUR SO SMART " d'oh!

And I liked life better when I had your posts blocked.....Back You GO Troll....


Feel free to block me.
But I don't know many government agencies that like to review and appeal their prior decisions just for fun. Maybe they exist... but the way this reads to me is that he felt his rating was low, and wanted it reviewed and appeal for a higher rating. He got exactly what he requested...

If someone with actual experience with the VA and disability ratings were to chime in and say that they are reviewed as a matter of procedure, and raised simply whenever the "reviewer" (not sure what kind of position that is) decides Dr Lowball struck again... and has nothing to do with the request of the veteran... then I stand corrected. But if this chain letter you have is the sole bit of information we have to base our decision on... then asking the government to define you as mentally disabled practically begs to get an "incompetent" label.
teedubbya Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
It's a catch 22. There is no clandestine evil going on here but one of those situaitons where you can't win.
Krazeehorse Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 04-09-2010
Posts: 1,958
It seems to me that when he "appealed" he initiated what ultimately didn't go the way he wished. Not saying he deserved what he got.
DrafterX Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
Why do you hate disabled Vets..?? Huh
HockeyDad Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
I'm not sure I'm a fan of the idea that soldiers ruled disabled due to PTSD should have firearms. Didn't we get a lot of post offices shot up that way before?

Just as disturbing is that when a soldier leaves the military they get a damaged/disabled rating score. Maybe we should just stop damaging them so much.
victor809 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Maybe TCBY is upset that the FBI doesn't want people classified by the federal government as mentally incompetent to own weapons.

In that case I agree with him.
victor809 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
HockeyDad wrote:
I'm not sure I'm a fan of the idea that soldiers ruled disabled due to PTSD should have firearms.


Pshh... where's the excitement in that?
sd72 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 03-09-2011
Posts: 9,600
Well at least the cbid world is back to normal.
Buckwheat Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
teedubbya wrote:
It's a catch 22. There is no clandestine evil going on here but one of those situaitons where you can't win.


Everyone is missing the obvious connection here. Maj. Major and Dr. Lowball are the evil minds behind all of this. Beer
TMCTLT Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
HockeyDad wrote:
I'm not sure I'm a fan of the idea that soldiers ruled disabled due to PTSD should have firearms. Didn't we get a lot of post offices shot up that way before?

Just as disturbing is that when a soldier leaves the military they get a damaged/disabled rating score. Maybe we should just stop damaging them so much.



This we can agree on FO SHO fog
victor809 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I think TCBY just admitted to being an anti-war communist liberal.
rfenst Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,360
victor809 wrote:
I think TCBY just admitted to being an anti-war communist liberal.


Gratuitous compliment?
MACS Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,823
I interviewed a Veteran in the jail yesterday. This is what he told me... He served from 1990-1994, and got out as an E-4. He was doping the whole time he was in and never got popped on a urinalysis. His drug of choice was meth, which clears up in about 3 days.

This POS was a doper for some time, and when he went into treatment (at a VA hospital) they gave him 100% disability because of "PTSD". He never even served in combat!! And he doesn't have PTSD he has tweaker's brain. He gets $2,906 a month from the VA. Tax free.

I did 20 years HONORABLY, retired as an E-8 and the VA gives me $455 a month, which they deduct from my retirement pay. All told, after I pay taxes on what's left of my retirement pay... this effing scumbag takes home a grand more than I do.

Ree-f***ing-DICKulous.
HockeyDad Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,163
The morale of that story is you should have used meth.
TMCTLT Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
victor809 wrote:
I think TCBY just admitted to being an anti-war communist liberal.




Victoria is a bald face liar.....he said he Thinks.....fog
victor809 Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
TMCTLT wrote:
Victoria is a bald face liar.....he said he Thinks.....fog



Ok, I'll rephrase that then.

"TCBY just admitted to being an anti-war communist liberal."
ZRX1200 Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,628
MACS I have two cousins that seever in our most recent adventures with Sadam. One served honorably, refusing a purple heart to stay in harms way with his brothers in arms (actually found a couple leaflets with his written image and a bounty). He got shot and blown up twice (regular IED and V-bed IED)

His brother broke his own hand before deployment, then never fired or got fired on in anger while non CONUS.

Guess which one got 100%?!

And the VA STILL harasses him because he's 80% and works two jobs (volunteer firefighter and a EMT).
Buckwheat Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 04-15-2004
Posts: 12,251
Shawn and Z both of your posts made me think of Johnny Cash's song, "Man in Black". Specifically these lines;

"Well, there's things that never will be right I know
And things need changin' everywhere you go"

It's a sad state of affairs on all accounts. Doing Meth is it's own punishment. ram27bat
DrafterX Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
But I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die..
When I hear that whistle blowing, I hang my head and cry.. Sad
teedubbya Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
DrafterX wrote:
But I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die..
When I hear that whistle blowing, I hang my head and cry.. Sad



you sure wanted to blow that whistle
Burner02 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 12-21-2010
Posts: 12,884
2008 numbers:

Veterans โ€” disabled or not โ€” number nearly 24 million. That population is projected by the VA to fall under 15 million by 2033, mostly because of dying World War II and Korean War vets.

The number of disabled veterans has jumped by 25 percent since 2001 โ€” to 2.9 million

The government expects to be spending $59 billion a year to compensate injured warriors in 25 years, up from today's $29 billion, according to internal documents obtained by The Associated Press.

Why?

Worse wounds. More disabilities. More vets aware of the benefits and quicker to file for them.



The above from AP and reported by Fox News.


delta1 Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
The effort to prevent another Sandy Hook has brought us here. Any better ideas? Or will we just keep digging holes?
DrafterX Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
unfortunately there's not much we can do to prevent such tragedies... the dude broke a half-dozen laws or so doing what he did.. more laws wouldn't have prevented it... Mellow


more laws might include removing all guns from households where anyone that resides there might be on or have taken anti-depressants or similar... that's a big ole can of worms there... Mellow
teedubbya Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
That is one extreme. But we shouldn't let the extremes guide us either way.
DrafterX Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,560
I heard it's already happened a few times in California... Mellow
TMCTLT Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
delta1 wrote:
The effort to prevent another Sandy Hook has brought us here. Any better ideas? Or will we just keep digging holes?



Adam Lanzas mother was a twit.....how you gonna protect yourself from that??? Because short of TAKING every law abiding citizens guns, all we can do is try to better educate folks on STORAGE of firearms and who should and in that case SHOULDN'T be taught to use them. Let's be honest about one thing here, there ARE some out there who believe that if you like to shoot firearms and worse yet OWN THEM.....you must be crazy!!!!!!!
delta1 Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,810
Not all returning vets are mentally stable. Of the unstable ones, some have extreme anger issues. Think of the guy who killed the American Sniper and his partner. There should be some barriers to those deemed mentally incompetent from possessing firearms, just like any other mentally disabled citizen.

The VA would be exposing itself to unlimited liability if they indiscriminately declared a mentally disabled vet competent just on his say so, without objective evidence that shows the reason for his lowball rating has been fixed.

That being said, the VA can, and should be compelled to do a much better job of providing treatment and care to all of our disabled servicemen and women.
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