America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 21 years ago by Mr.Mean. 26 replies replies.
our constitution
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
In effect, the Bush administration insists, any American can be jailed without charge, without bail, without a hearing and without a lawyer, forever, if necessary, on the say-so of a mid-level Pentagon official named Michael H. Mobbs.

Mobbs is described as special adviser to the undersecretary of defense for policy. Mobbs decides who is an "unlawful enemy combatant," a phrase without any real legal meaning but one the Justice Department cites as reason enough to indefinitely hold a 21-year-old American-born Saudi incommunicado in a windowless cell.

And what precisely makes a person an "unlawful enemy combatant"? The government can't say. National security, you know.

Yaser Esam Hamdi was captured in Afghanistan and shipped to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. He was then sent to a Navy brig in Norfolk, Va., when his interrogators discovered that by virtue of being born here he could claim American citizenship - and, one would think, the fundamental constitutional protections like access to a lawyer - that go with it.

Federal Judge Robert Doumar, who is emerging as something of a hero in this chilling assertion of unchecked executive power to imprison, has twice ordered that Hamdi be allowed to see a federal public defender.

The government appealed, and the circuit court ordered Doumar to give the Justice Department a greater opportunity to make its case. The government got that chance Tuesday, and Doumar not only seemed unconvinced, he seemed disgusted.

The government case was a sparse two-page "declaration of facts" from Mobbs that the judge found shot through with "substantial" omissions. Not surprisingly, Doumar concluded that the omissions were because the government had something to hide. Nonetheless, said the government, that was all the judge was getting.

Doumar said that the Hamdi case was without precedent. Nowhere could he find a case where a prisoner was subjected to such an abrogation of rights. Hamdi, who hasn't been accused of anything, has fewer rights - actually no rights - than a convicted felon.

Said the judge, "I do think that due process requires something other than a basic assertion by someone named Mobbs that they have looked at some papers and therefore have determined that (Hamdi) should be held incommunicado."

Doumar says he will rule again in a few days. When he does, he should not only reassert Hamdi's right to a lawyer but order him brought before the court to be charged, released or sent back to Guantanamo as a prisoner of war.

A fundamental principle is at stake here. Because of the Mobbs memo, the judge asked the government: "The Constitution doesn't apply to Hamdi?" The government declined to answer, but we will: Yes, it does. It's frightening that the judge even has to ask.

jjohnson28 Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Care to post your source?
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
The Herald, ROCK HILL, SC, 8/14/2002
jjohnson28 Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Post a link. You don't actually think I'm going to search for this drivel,do you?
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
try copying the source and pasting it on a search engine, and see what happens.
learn to educate yourself.
jjohnson28 Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Like I said you don't actually expect me to search for this drivel do you. LOL at least I know where the shift key is.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
jjohnson28

it's "as i said"

I will in the future use capital letters for you posts. I believe you have the right to expect proper use of capital letters and I will accomodate you.

tailgater Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
yeah, we better watch out. The Bush Administration is gonna knock on your door tonite and hold you in jail without cause. No fear mongering here.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
tailgater---do you sometimes lose continuity?
Mr.Mean Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 05-16-2001
Posts: 3,025
The rights of a terrorist, amusing.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Mr.Mean
thanks for joining what up till now has been a boring 2 way nothing.

please expand, i am sure i have missed the point of your comment.
jjohnson28 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Seems pretty clear to me.
Mr.Mean Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 05-16-2001
Posts: 3,025
You are obviously promoting that this terrorist be given rights as though he was a common criminal. He was re-captured in a terrorist prisoner uprising in Afghanistan. HE'S A TERRORIST. He should fall under the category of prisoner of war, not US citizen.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
Mr.Mean
i see your point now. thanks for the explaination.
Mr.Mean Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 05-16-2001
Posts: 3,025
Does this mean you don't love me anymore?
[email protected] Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2002
Posts: 9,719
IMHO:

He shouldn't even be allowed to receive the P.O.W. status as it would afford him additional priviledges that I don't feel he deserves.
Charlie Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Rick, you would probably be happier living in Isreal or the Middle East where you would have all the rights and freedoms that you claim we are losing! What crap! Learn to accept the times and what we must do to protect God fearing and honest Americans and quit whinning for the few riff raffs that are being "detained" against their "rights"! Charlie
Charlie Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Rick, any shot you can take at the Administration, no matter how silly, you bomb away! Isn't it nice to have that freedom? Think you could do that in Iraq? Then quit supporting the rights of Terrorist and other nuts that are out to disrupt our country! Charlie
eleltea Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
Rick, don't worry. We will bail you out if it takes ten years.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
charkie
i am not god fearing. i don't even deal with the concept of god.
i don't whine i yell.
who said they are "riff-raff". ashcroft?
who will speak for you if you are detained?



RICKAMAVEN Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
sorry i misspelled your name. it was a typo error.
Charlie Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Rick, I am not at all concerned about being detained, the only people being "detained" are those that deserve to be held! Why would you shout for the "rights" of those who would blow up buildings and kill innocent civilians regardless of race, color, creed, gender,etc!!!???? Get off the soapbox for the terrorist and when "Evil" Ashcroft starts detaining innocent people then scream and yell! Charlie
Charlie Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Furthermore, go outside and enjoy the great California weather we are having and smoke some good cigars! I am going to do just that! No big deal about misspelling name, etc!!! Charlie
cwilhelmi Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
I thought our rights included presumed innocence, or being innocent until proven guilty. Don't these people have rights just like anyone else in this country?? The minute we take the law into our own hands, or allow others to do so, we jeopardize our freedoms and our future. If we stop fighting to protect our rights we'll lose them, so never fall for that I'm innocent so what do I have to worry about $hit!!
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
cwilhelmi

watch yourself, you are starting to sound like one of us.
what do they call me, bleeding heart, pinko, anti american, stupid (i think), left wing do gooders (apparently a bad thing), freakos, and damn i wish i could remember some of the other slurs.

remember what howard roark said when told by his mentor "if you persist in doing things your own way, you will never be accepted. you will beg for any assignment that will allow you to build something your own way. is that the kind of life you want?

howard roark said

YES.

jjohnson28 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 09-12-2000
Posts: 7,914
Delusional! just trying to help! hehehe!
Mr.Mean Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 05-16-2001
Posts: 3,025
senile.
Users browsing this topic
Guest