America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 6 years ago by tailgater. 48 replies replies.
Gee... I wonder what the motivation could be here....
Jump to Bottom | Previous Topic | Next Topic
victor809 Offline
#1 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 12:47 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
So first the Trump administration decides to roll back a ban on off-shore drilling. I mean, it's worked so well for us, I can understand... never any problem with spills or failures.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/04/politics/offshore-drilling-plan/index.html

But this falls in line with expectations from "let's remove every regulation ever without assessing its value!" trump.

But then... yesterday he backed off on removing that ban. For the florida coast only.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/09/politics/florida-offshore-drilling/index.html

He claims it's because the governor (republican) made such a convincing argument that florida has such a unique coast and relies on tourism....

Yet... what about california? Another coastal/tourism heavy state... I wonder what could be the difference....

couldn't possibly have anything to do with Mar a lago being in florida could it? You know... that business venture he was supposed to divest all interest in so that there was no conflict of interest in decisions like this?
DrafterX Offline
#2 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 12:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
Sounds like you've already made up your mind..... But why do you hate the manatees..?? Huh
tailgater Offline
#3 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 1:10 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Classic.

When Trump's actions threaten the Florida coast, Victor is against it.

When Trump's actions reverse this threat, Victor is against it.
teedubbya Offline
#4 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 1:17 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
He does make a good point about California and the others however. Did they ask for the same and get rejected ? Maybe they didn't ask?

If they did then you can defend it all you want but its pure politics which wouldn't be shocking, unusual or limited to one party or the other. But we will pretend the other party is the only one that does that even though deep down in, in places we don't like to talk about at parties, we know better.
delta1 Offline
#5 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 1:48 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
Wouldn't want any ugly oil rigs, spilling oil into the bay or ruining the view from the top rooms at Trump's resort wouldja? He's making a ton of money there, especially when he's visiting and attracts high paying customers who want to hob nob with the POTUS...

Who really thought he would separate his personal businesses from doing the job of the business of the American people?
frankj1 Offline
#6 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 1:49 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
tailgater wrote:
Classic.

When Trump's actions threaten the Florida coast, Victor is against it.

When Trump's actions reverse this threat, Victor is against it.






while that may be true, his real point is to ask why Florida was spared...and all good conspiracy theorists should applaud that question if only to keep both friend and foe honest.

I think I made myself laugh.
frankj1 Offline
#7 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 1:52 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
delta1 wrote:
Wouldn't want any ugly oil rigs, spilling oil into the bay or ruining the view from the top rooms at Trump's resort wouldja? He's making a ton of money there, especially when he's visiting and attracts high paying customers who want to hob nob with the POTUS...

Who really thought he would separate his personal businesses from doing the job of the business of the American people?

ask the wind power people in Scotland near the golf course.
victor809 Offline
#8 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 2:13 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Classic.

When Trump's actions threaten the Florida coast, Victor is against it.

When Trump's actions reverse this threat, Victor is against it.




Always missing the forest for the trees aren't you.

Get smarter tail. I never explicitly stated whether I was for or against removing the drilling regulations, nor did I state whether I was for or against reversing that threat for florida specifically.

But you have your narrative you wanted to fit this into.
victor809 Offline
#9 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 2:16 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
teedubbya wrote:
He does make a good point about California and the others however. Did they ask for the same and get rejected ? Maybe they didn't ask?

If they did then you can defend it all you want but its pure politics which wouldn't be shocking, unusual or limited to one party or the other. But we will pretend the other party is the only one that does that even though deep down in, in places we don't like to talk about at parties, we know better.


Good point TW... it is possible no other state asked. Id have to check that.

And I agree it's always pure politics, and both sides do it.

but we've never had a president who would personally profit so much from the pure politics.

The media is having a field day pointing out every place where cheeto-jesus's or his kid's companies magically get clients/business in places where he gets involved.

This isn't just politics... it's flat out profiteering.
ZRX1200 Offline
#10 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 2:20 PM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,604
I don't remember Victor saying the same thing about the drunk murderer Teddy Kennedy when he stopped the wind power off Cape Cod in front of their family Property SPECIFICALLY.

I'm trying real hard to feign outrage.
Kawaksback Offline
#11 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 2:26 PM EST
Joined: 12-14-2017
Posts: 48
victor809 wrote:
So first the Trump administration decides to roll back a ban on off-shore drilling. I mean, it's worked so well for us, I can understand... never any problem with spills or failures.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/04/politics/offshore-drilling-plan/index.html

But this falls in line with expectations from "let's remove every regulation ever without assessing its value!" trump.

But then... yesterday he backed off on removing that ban. For the florida coast only.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/09/politics/florida-offshore-drilling/index.html

He claims it's because the governor (republican) made such a convincing argument that florida has such a unique coast and relies on tourism....

Yet... what about california? Another coastal/tourism heavy state... I wonder what could be the difference....

couldn't possibly have anything to do with Mar a lago being in florida could it? You know... that business venture he was supposed to divest all interest in so that there was no conflict of interest in decisions like this?


Winning!!
TMCTLT Offline
#12 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 2:40 PM EST
Joined: 11-22-2007
Posts: 19,733
ZRX1200 wrote:
I don't remember Victor saying the same thing about the drunk murderer Teddy Kennedy when he stopped the wind power off Cape Cod in front of their family Property SPECIFICALLY.

I'm trying real hard to feign outrage.



That's.....different Whistle




































Liar
tailgater Offline
#13 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 2:48 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:


... I never explicitly stated whether I was for or against removing the drilling regulations, nor did I state whether I was for or against reversing that threat for florida specifically.



I'm not sure whether to laugh or just giggle.

Here's a reminder:


victor809 wrote:
So first the Trump administration decides to roll back a ban on off-shore drilling. I mean, it's worked so well for us, I can understand... never any problem with spills or failures.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/04/politics/offshore-drilling-plan/index.html

But this falls in line with expectations from "let's remove every regulation ever without assessing its value!" trump.


Is this you being vague on whether you're for or against Trump's decision?


And I get it. Trump appears to have an agenda regarding Florida.
Fine. based on the information you've provided I would tend to agree.
But you're griping about a decision that will possibly protect the Florida coast line.
That's called spite.
And you wear it in spades.
tailgater Offline
#14 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 2:50 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
ZRX1200 wrote:
I don't remember Victor saying the same thing about the drunk murderer Teddy Kennedy when he stopped the wind power off Cape Cod in front of their family Property SPECIFICALLY.

I'm trying real hard to feign outrage.


I was in a pickle on that one.
I didn't want the wind turbines either.
I felt dirty agreeing with Senator McDrunk-n-dunk.
victor809 Offline
#15 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 2:58 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
I'm not sure whether to laugh or just giggle.

Here's a reminder:




Is this you being vague on whether you're for or against Trump's decision?


And I get it. Trump appears to have an agenda regarding Florida.
Fine. based on the information you've provided I would tend to agree.
But you're griping about a decision that will possibly protect the Florida coast line.
That's called spite.
And you wear it in spades.



I criticized his decision making process. Not his decision.
If someone presented me with information regarding improved safety of offshore drilling as well as demand for additional oil I see no reason not to discuss removing a ban on it.
No one should hold to any decision regardless of new information.

My criticism is that he repeals regulations just because they're there. Not because he has new information he read (hah! reading). Given that there is a history of issues, and that he is clearly not a person who takes in information, then his decision should be criticized.

His reversal was just as knee-jerk as his decision.

Keep up tail
dstieger Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 3:01 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
from someone who would know a knee-jerk when he sees one...



btw, please enlighten the rest of us on your inside information about the president's decision making process. I haven't been read in
teedubbya Offline
#17 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 3:09 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Is Florida ever important in presidential politics?
Kawaksback Offline
#18 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 3:25 PM EST
Joined: 12-14-2017
Posts: 48
teedubbya wrote:
Is Florida ever important in presidential politics?


Almost as important as CA
teedubbya Offline
#19 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 3:35 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Nope. Cali is D. Not really in play.

Florida is another story.
Phil222 Offline
#20 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 3:54 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
Deepwater Horizon wasn't that long ago...I guess people need more time to forget before business as usual can resume; for Florida anyways...
Kawaksback Offline
#21 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 4:09 PM EST
Joined: 12-14-2017
Posts: 48
teedubbya wrote:
Nope. Cali is D. Not really in play.

Florida is another story.


Thats my point. Its so important the Dems have corrupted it to the point to always keep it Dem. Imagine if it was rebup, the Dems would never win another election. They're working on FL now with PR refugees. See El Salvador earth quake 17 yrs ago.
dstieger Offline
#22 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 4:36 PM EST
Joined: 06-22-2007
Posts: 10,889
So...the first article says that nothing will be final until the administration hears from the states.

The second article says that they listened to a governor and adjusted.

It also says that they may well hear from other states and continue to adjust. WTF is is the outrage about now?

Also, does anyone here know if states will be able to restrict operations off their own coasts despite what the fed says? I can't tell from these and other articles.
victor809 Offline
#23 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 5:57 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
dstieger wrote:
So...the first article says that nothing will be final until the administration hears from the states.

The second article says that they listened to a governor and adjusted.

It also says that they may well hear from other states and continue to adjust. WTF is is the outrage about now?

Also, does anyone here know if states will be able to restrict operations off their own coasts despite what the fed says? I can't tell from these and other articles.


I'd be interested in knowing that as well. I suspect not... as I bet the federal gov't claims coastal water out to the international line.... but that's just a guess.
victor809 Offline
#24 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 6:05 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/01/10/577064733/after-florida-gets-offshore-drilling-exemption-other-states-ask-for-the-same

So apparently a number of governors are making or have made the exemption request. A few after Gv Scott (props to him on being first, maybe?)
But Virginia has not received the same response (according to them)
Phil222 Offline
#25 Posted: Wed, Jan 10 2018, 6:41 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
#22,#23 "The Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution (Article VI, Clause 2) establishes that the Constitution, federal laws made pursuant to it, and treaties made under its authority, constitute the supreme law of the land."

My guess is the feds can do whatever they want...
DrMaddVibe Offline
#26 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:08 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,431
When I was a kid growing up in California in the mid 60's to late 70's on a clear day without fog...usually after a rainstorm...you could see the offshore oil rigs. When did they get removed?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#27 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:10 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,431
Phil222 wrote:
#22,#23 "The Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution (Article VI, Clause 2) establishes that the Constitution, federal laws made pursuant to it, and treaties made under its authority, constitute the supreme law of the land."

My guess is the feds can do whatever they want...



Yes and they get away with murder because the states don't ever hold them accountable!

https://conventionofstates.com/
DrMaddVibe Offline
#28 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:12 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,431
teedubbya wrote:
Is Florida ever important in presidential politics?



Yes. Go ask Manbearpig. Give him a Kleenex and a kick in the nuts for me too!
tamapatom Offline
#29 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:28 AM EST
Joined: 03-19-2015
Posts: 7,381
No one wins Florida without being opposed to offshore drilling. Sen. Nelson (D) has always been strong on this issue. If Scott expects to run against him (or anyone else in a statewide election) he needs some "no drill" cred.
Phil222 Offline
#30 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:35 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
DrMaddVibe wrote:
https://conventionofstates.com/


I agree with the part about term limits. I have mixed feelings about limiting federal authority.
tailgater Offline
#31 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:50 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
I criticized his decision making process. Not his decision.
If someone presented me with information regarding improved safety of offshore drilling as well as demand for additional oil I see no reason not to discuss removing a ban on it.
No one should hold to any decision regardless of new information.

My criticism is that he repeals regulations just because they're there. Not because he has new information he read (hah! reading). Given that there is a history of issues, and that he is clearly not a person who takes in information, then his decision should be criticized.

His reversal was just as knee-jerk as his decision.
l


I'm sure you'd like to think this to be true.
cacman Offline
#32 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:53 AM EST
Joined: 07-03-2010
Posts: 12,216
Isn't California going to fall into the ocean and become another Mexican luxury resort island?
tailgater Offline
#33 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:55 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
dstieger wrote:
So...the first article says that nothing will be final until the administration hears from the states.

The second article says that they listened to a governor and adjusted.

It also says that they may well hear from other states and continue to adjust. WTF is is the outrage about now?

Also, does anyone here know if states will be able to restrict operations off their own coasts despite what the fed says? I can't tell from these and other articles.


Well, for victor it's the fact that, well, Trump!

First he's against his decisions (because Trump).
Then he's against when he reverses that decision (Trump).
Then he claims it's just the decision making "process". (Trump again).
Even though that's not what he said originally. Not even close.

He has asked for me to keep up, but it is getting tedious.
DrafterX Offline
#34 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:55 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
It's fine if Florida doesn't want to drill.... As long as they don't interfere if Georgia or South Carolina want to... Mellow
tailgater Offline
#35 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:57 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
DrMaddVibe wrote:
When I was a kid growing up in California in the mid 60's to late 70's on a clear day without fog...usually after a rainstorm...you could see the offshore oil rigs. When did they get removed?


Looks like Trump installed some preemptive rigs out there.

Brilliant!
victor809 Offline
#36 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 4:21 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
I'm sure you'd like to think this to be true.



Yeah tail. it's pretty well documented (from leaks within his own staff) that he doesn't do a lot of reading, that his attention span is very short and he doesn't spend a lot of time considering information.

This is also easily seen for oneself when you watch videos of him, take for example the publicized DACA meeting, you can see him get distracted, go off on tangents, contradict things he said minutes before. He is not actually taking in information, considering it, making decisions and then presenting arguments to support his decisions.

Given that we have ample evidence that over the course of a 2 hr meeting he can flip back and forth and make unsubstantiated and contradictory statements, it isn't a big leap to assume that when he flips back and forth on drilling in florida, it's probably just as knee jerk and not well considered.

delta1 Offline
#37 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 6:31 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
Off shore oil rigs are still visible in California. Some attempts have been made to "beautify" those that are closest to the coast...I don't think the people of California will embrace the idea of more oil rigs off the coast...Reagan tried about 30 years ago, and was defeated...the history of spills along the coast will be significant in driving the decision...

Trump has a nice resort on the coast in SoCal...he'll prolly exempt that part of the state...there are enough oil platforms visible from his property...
banderl Offline
#38 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:28 PM EST
Joined: 09-09-2008
Posts: 10,153
victor809 wrote:
Yeah tail. it's pretty well documented (from leaks within his own staff) that he doesn't do a lot of reading, that his attention span is very short and he doesn't spend a lot of time considering information.

This is also easily seen for oneself when you watch videos of him, take for example the publicized DACA meeting, you can see him get distracted, go off on tangents, contradict things he said minutes before. He is not actually taking in information, considering it, making decisions and then presenting arguments to support his decisions.

Given that we have ample evidence that over the course of a 2 hr meeting he can flip back and forth and make unsubstantiated and contradictory statements, it isn't a big leap to assume that when he flips back and forth on drilling in florida, it's probably just as knee jerk and not well considered.




He would have signed a ham sandwich it you put one in front of him.
tailgater Offline
#39 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:48 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
Yeah tail. it's pretty well documented (from leaks within his own staff) that he doesn't do a lot of reading, that his attention span is very short and he doesn't spend a lot of time considering information.

This is also easily seen for oneself when you watch videos of him, take for example the publicized DACA meeting, you can see him get distracted, go off on tangents, contradict things he said minutes before. He is not actually taking in information, considering it, making decisions and then presenting arguments to support his decisions.

Given that we have ample evidence that over the course of a 2 hr meeting he can flip back and forth and make unsubstantiated and contradictory statements, it isn't a big leap to assume that when he flips back and forth on drilling in florida, it's probably just as knee jerk and not well considered.



Uhm, OK.

But that's not relevant to the discussion. You clearly stated that you hated what Trump did and then hated when he did the opposite. Then you tried to get people to believe it was the "process". Now you're deflecting again and talking about his reading habits and attention span.

Might be true. Might not be.
But it's not germane to the issue at hand.

Trump lives in many places.
DC
Florida
And Victors head.
DrafterX Offline
#40 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 9:55 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
He just hates Trump and all things Trump... Doesn't matter if it's good or bad... Mellow
delta1 Offline
#41 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 10:40 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
but if he cures cancer, we'll all be riding the Trump wagon...
DrafterX Offline
#42 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 11:20 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
If a cure for cancer happens under his watch I'm sure he'll take credit for it... But what's more important..?? The cure or Trump's ego..?? Huh
teedubbya Offline
#43 Posted: Thu, Jan 11 2018, 11:22 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
He is a cancer.
DrafterX Offline
#44 Posted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 12:06 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
Your face is a cancer... Mellow
DrafterX Offline
#45 Posted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 12:08 AM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
I'm sorry.. Sad
victor809 Offline
#46 Posted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 2:13 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:
Uhm, OK.

But that's not relevant to the discussion. You clearly stated that you hated what Trump did and then hated when he did the opposite. Then you tried to get people to believe it was the "process". Now you're deflecting again and talking about his reading habits and attention span.

Might be true. Might not be.
But it's not germane to the issue at hand.

Trump lives in many places.
DC
Florida
And Victors head.




It appears I live in San francisco.... and in Tail's head.

I never stated that I "hate what trump did" or "hate when he did the opposite".

So given that you don't actually pay attention to what I say... just what you imagine I'm saying
rfenst Offline
#47 Posted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 8:17 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,323
The real reason: Florida Governor Scott is termed-out of office so he is running for election against Bill Nelson- D. This will help, possibly to preserve the R majority in the Senate. Nelson always went heavy on the environment (against drilling) and now Scott is trying to own the issue.
tailgater Offline
#48 Posted: Fri, Jan 12 2018, 10:00 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
victor809 wrote:
It appears I live in San francisco.... and in Tail's head.


Ouch. You slapped me with the ol' "I know you are, but what am I?" retort...

victor809 wrote:

I never stated that I "hate what trump did" or "hate when he did the opposite".



If I can ever recover from that total take down by you...
Sure. You didn't say the words "I hate".
But an intelligent person can read the obvious sarcasm in your words from the first post.
Your posts seethe with your hatred.

And do me a favor: please clean out my left ear while you're up there.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Back to Top