America's #1 Online Cigar Auction
first, best, biggest!

Last post 4 years ago by rfenst. 48 replies replies.
Is it All Worth Wrecking the Economy? And...
Jump to Bottom | Previous Topic | Next Topic
Gene363 Offline
#1 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 12:25 PM EST
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,817
Is it All Worth Wrecking the Economy? (Less than six minutes long.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaVkwWX8av0


This video was about Essential jobs, but goes on to talk about the damage we are doing to the economy.

One thing he didn't say, but that will be a benefit coming out of this crisis, a large number of old/unhealthy people we would have spent a ton of money keeping alive are not going to be here.
delta1 Offline
#2 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 12:43 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
Heritage Foundation put out opinion pieces similar to that when the pandemic started taking root in the US..their opinions influenced GOP/con thinking early on...especially considering the worst outbreaks were in lib/progressive states...

but when the numbers of infected peeps and deaths started increasing all over the US and red states, Trump and GOP Governors (Florida and Texas and Georgia come to mind) belatedly pivoted away from that thinking

UK adopted that as their initial posture, but got on board with the scientific experts' plan when they realized the death toll would be extreme...poor BoJo, the leading proponent of let life go on, business as usual, ironically became infected

my opinion: if we let nature take its course and open the economy, we don't know how many people and what their occupations are, will die...

It'll be easier to jumpstart businesses with live people than with dead people...hopefully Tanya the dog-groomer will heed social distancing and survive this outbreak to re-start her business with USA govt/ American tax-payer money to help her
teedubbya Offline
#3 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 1:01 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Yea do nothing and see how the economy fares. This resurfaces but is stupid.
Speyside Offline
#4 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 1:19 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
Black plague wiped out 40-50% of the earth population, Spanish flu wiped out 25-30 percent of the earths population. Sounds like you would rather let 2-3% of the earths population die when we don't have to. Not what I live by, but you have a right to express your opinion.
tailgater Offline
#5 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 1:30 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
There is a value put on lives every day.
We have decided that it is unpopular to expose the cost/benefit when it's obvious or new. But we'll continue to ignore those with an even higher death toll that are already in place.
victor809 Offline
#6 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 1:32 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
I had this same opinion at the beginning of the quarantines. Seemed to me to be an untenable prospect with our capitalist economy... too much of the economy is balanced on a large low-pay workforce... hourly workers lose their jobs, they can't pay rent. Rental income disappears for a month or so, and landowners can't pay their mortgages.... defaults on the mortgages and the bankers need a bailout. etc etc...

I changed my mind when someone pointed out what delta said... if the disease spreads enough (and this disease is REALLY good at spreading) the economy will be disrupted anyway, and not in a way we control, in whatever way it happens to travel. Essentially, we're going to see similar economic disruption either way.

The only way we could have avoided what's coming is if we had been smart enough to test "bigly" at the beginning, before this got out of control. Now we just have to hunker down
frankj1 Offline
#7 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 1:43 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
victor809 wrote:
I had this same opinion at the beginning of the quarantines. Seemed to me to be an untenable prospect with our capitalist economy... too much of the economy is balanced on a large low-pay workforce... hourly workers lose their jobs, they can't pay rent. Rental income disappears for a month or so, and landowners can't pay their mortgages.... defaults on the mortgages and the bankers need a bailout. etc etc...

I changed my mind when someone pointed out what delta said... if the disease spreads enough (and this disease is REALLY good at spreading) the economy will be disrupted anyway, and not in a way we control, in whatever way it happens to travel. Essentially, we're going to see similar economic disruption either way.

The only way we could have avoided what's coming is if we had been smart enough to test "bigly" at the beginning, before this got out of control. Now we just have to hunker down

trickle up economics 101.
teedubbya Offline
#8 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 1:54 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Unpopular to expose cost/benefit? That’s always true but not what’s driving decisions. Yes actuaries place a value on life every day. Living in the insurance world that’s a daily occurrence. Some of the models I’ve seen include such factors.

I’ll say it again, if this was left unmitigated the economy could very well suffer MORE. It’s not a matter of avoiding cost benefit at all. That’s a knee jerk reaction likely drawn from not actually looking at the cost benefit analysis. I say could very well, because all models can fail and will change over time. They are models.

If you really think trumps about face on this (twice) when clearly his preference is to minimize the virus and keep things open had nothing to do with a cost benefit analysis including the economy with the value of life factored in then you have less faith in him than I do.

We keep wanting to revisit this. The virus is worse than folks want to believe or comprehend. It’s here, it’s wicked and we are trying to do the right things. It’s not like the smart people are not weighing in.
teedubbya Offline
#9 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 1:58 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
This is brutal on the economy. I do believe just letting the virus go unmitigated would be a financial disaster of epic proportions.

I find the admins approach to this from the beginning to be a disaster. But out of necessity they have changed course and are doing a few things in the right direction. I hope it keeps going.
Phil222 Offline
#10 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 2:11 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2017
Posts: 1,911
I find it amusing they named their channel “Blue Collar Logic,” and then use poor logic in many of their videos.
Brewha Offline
#11 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 2:13 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
Maybe we should ask the MyPillow Guy for guidance.




Or Ivanka....
victor809 Offline
#12 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 2:46 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Phil222 wrote:
I find it amusing they named their channel “Blue Collar Logic,” and then use poor logic in many of their videos.

.... I find it accurate that's the case....
frankj1 Offline
#13 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 3:02 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
#8 and #9
yes and yes

hope they don't veer off again.
CelticBomber Offline
#14 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 5:56 PM EST
Joined: 05-03-2012
Posts: 6,786
So who's volunteering their loved one's for the economy? Any takers?
DrMaddVibe Offline
#15 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 6:05 PM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,431
Brewha wrote:
Maybe we should ask the MyPillow Guy for guidance.



He busy kicking out masks. He converted his manufacturing sites to only making masks.

Funny how that didn't get hardly any press but if he tells people to read their Bible he's reviled.

https://www.kaaltv.com/minnesota-news/minnesota-my-pillow-medical-masks-coronavirus/5688587/
Dg west deptford Offline
#16 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 6:20 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
With everybody working from home maybe I should cast a line toward home office renovations with safe bio hazard practices line item fee.
frankj1 Offline
#17 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 6:38 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
yet we all knew about his involvement and respect his private decision and would fight to protect his right to worship as he sees fit. Did I say privately?

Should be a new thread (might yet be) but the Kraft family took time off from Asian massages and were major players in a surreptitious plot with Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker (small r republican) to bring a million or 2 million masks in from China without letting the Administration know about it.

A few days ago Gov Baker was being asked about the anticipated delivery of the much needed masks he had ordered, but being wise enough to not be in partisan lockstep skillfully demurred when answering that an order isn't an order until one receives it.

Apparently he knew what would happen...MA's conventional order was hijacked by the Feds when it landed in NY.

Baker was ready as he used all his contacts and his contacts contacts all over the world, quietly placed a mammoth order from China, made more calls and enlisted patriotic Patriots owners Kraft and son to use one of their planes to go fetch the goods. A few more calls to expedite the return trip through Alaska as a humanitarian relief effort saved much precious time and the first million plus are now here out of reach of the Federal thieves who pit states against each other in bidding wars rather than distribute by case load.

A ton were given to Rhode Island, a ton to NYC, the rest are safely in stock in MA now.

There was more intrigue, parts for repairs and mechanics to install if needed who never got off the plane during the round trip...very cool mission.
Sad that it had to happen, but fortunately Baker is very competent and knew that normal has been suspended.
frankj1 Offline
#18 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 6:39 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
estimated costs to the Krafts...like 2 to 3 million shekels

probably not shekels, but I had to say it.
Dg west deptford Offline
#19 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 6:43 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
did you hear about the security guard at the old folks home around the corner got bloodied when some political hack showed up trying to take the tests away? They maintained ownership.
USNGunner Offline
#20 Posted: Fri, Apr 3 2020, 10:30 PM EST
Joined: 05-17-2019
Posts: 4,402
CelticBomber wrote:
So who's volunteering their loved one's for the economy? Any takers?


I've been voluntold. Does that count?
s+p Offline
#21 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 12:53 AM EST
Joined: 03-22-2014
Posts: 21
Speyside wrote:
Black plague wiped out 40-50% of the earth population, Spanish flu wiped out 25-30 percent of the earths population. Sounds like you would rather let 2-3% of the earths population die when we don't have to. Not what I live by, but you have a right to express your opinion.


It would most probably be more than 3% actually...
s+p Offline
#22 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 12:55 AM EST
Joined: 03-22-2014
Posts: 21
DrMaddVibe wrote:
He busy kicking out masks. He converted his manufacturing sites to only making masks.

Funny how that didn't get hardly any press but if he tells people to read their Bible he's reviled.

https://www.kaaltv.com/minnesota-news/minnesota-my-pillow-medical-masks-coronavirus/5688587/

Yeah, the guy who fired 150 workers in 2017 after touting Trump's strong economy...
rfenst Offline
#23 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 5:19 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,323
Brewha wrote:
Maybe we should ask the MyPillow Guy for guidance.




Or Ivanka....

Donny, Jr.!Sick
ZRX1200 Offline
#24 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 9:41 AM EST
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,606
*sigh* now I remember why I took a break..


Jesus
fiddler898 Offline
#25 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 9:56 AM EST
Joined: 06-15-2009
Posts: 3,782
Without bias for or against any of what’s already been said here, to me, the thought of pitting the health of the economy against the health of human beings is an immoral equation. And yes, I understand that there are arguments that hold a healthy economy is in the long term beneficial to overall human health and I can agree with this to a point, but not to the point where we all cease precautions in 3 weeks and let the chips fall where they may.
victor809 Offline
#26 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 10:20 AM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Dg west deptford wrote:
With everybody working from home maybe I should cast a line toward home office renovations with safe bio hazard practices line item fee.


So this just struck me as I was skimming through the thread.
It's an interesting concept.... (not the home office with safe bio hazards... sorry DG... that's dumb)... BUT ... home design/renovation to allow oneself to avoid carrying anything in.

I was listening to a medical podcast, and one of the podcasters, a practicing doctor, was outlining what she has to do every day when she gets home now, to try to avoid bringing anything into the house and infecting her family.

Essentially she has to strip down in the garage and run through the house to shower. Carry all clothes through the house to wash.

Almost seems like you could set up a home with a "shower-in" room, similar to what they have in hog farms or sterile rooms. Just a shower room in the garage with 2 doors on the shower. One side is dirty... all exposed clothes stay on that side. You'd need to set the washer/dryer in that area as well. Shower in, exit the shower on the clean side. Need a cabinet with clean sweats or something... then enter the house.

Could put pass-throughs for goods (groceries etc) with a table for wipe down of anything which may be exposed.
frankj1 Offline
#27 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 1:05 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
does chlorine kill virus?
maybe a swim through lane into a subbasement.
tailgater Offline
#28 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 2:37 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
fiddler898 wrote:
Without bias for or against any of what’s already been said here, to me, the thought of pitting the health of the economy against the health of human beings is an immoral equation. And yes, I understand that there are arguments that hold a healthy economy is in the long term beneficial to overall human health and I can agree with this to a point, but not to the point where we all cease precautions in 3 weeks and let the chips fall where they may.


So if we don't think about it, then it's OK?

I just looked up a stat: 38,000 automobile related deaths in the US. Year after year after year.
If the media ran with this in the same fear mongering style, you might say it was immoral to drive a car.

Don't dwell on the numbers unless you consider them statistically.
The current 2.5% death rate is way overblown. We know for a fact that a large portion of the population will get this virus yet show little symptoms and therefore not be tested.
They contracted Covid 19.
But they won't be included in the death rate numbers.
Because it's not convenient.

I don't think anyone has proposed to cease all precautions. If so, then I agree with you. We shouldn't.
But we need to put in place a plan to get out from under this government imposed lockdown. If that process begins in three weeks then great. Because it isn't going to happen overnight.
victor809 Offline
#29 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 2:46 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
tailgater wrote:

Don't dwell on the numbers unless you consider them statistically.
The current 2.5% death rate is way overblown. We know for a fact that a large portion of the population will get this virus yet show little symptoms and therefore not be tested.
They contracted Covid 19.
But they won't be included in the death rate numbers.
Because it's not convenient.



Dear lord tail... everything's a media conspiracy to you.

THE MEDIA ISN'T INCLUDING A NUMBER WE DON'T KNOW YET BECAUSE IT ISN'T CONVENIENT TO THEIR MESSAGE!!!

The pandemic hasn't even ended yet. Of all the things, figuring out how many people got the disease but don't need any medical care and never knew they had is is likely going to be the last thing we learn.

I don't hear you whining about no one counting the people who die at home. Be consistent. And no, I don't mean consistently repeating the fox-news line.

teedubbya Offline
#30 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 2:51 PM EST
Joined: 08-14-2003
Posts: 95,637
Those damn cars. No one is immune from them, they are impossible to control and magnetic. And if one simply gets close to a other forget about it. And to top it off it’s all at once!

If only the press focus more on that than this silly virus. The press is to blame. It’s pretty comparable but the chose to run with one over the other. You know the orange hoax.

And we know for sure there are a lot of unidentified cases but no deaths that were not identified. I’ll calculate my own rate dammit. I had geometry and stuff.



tonygraz Offline
#31 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 4:05 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2008
Posts: 20,253
Back in the 60's there were around 60,000 traffic deaths a year, so we are getting safer with even more cars on the roads. And with the partial economy shut down accidents are more infrequent, even influencing some insurance companies to issue rebates of premiums paid. The real suffering is on the low income folks that live from paycheck to paycheck.
HockeyDad Offline
#32 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 4:12 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,134
The low income folks are the lab rats in the safer at home/wait for the vaccine game.
Dg west deptford Offline
#33 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 4:21 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
^vic, my LLC. Can crush that, just can't get permits so all I can do is get you to rough in with no completion date.
Got a couple such jobs goin.
Working solo for now
victor809 Offline
#34 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 4:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Hehe... there's probably some Dr's who really could use a home set-up like that.
Dg west deptford Offline
#35 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 4:27 PM EST
Joined: 05-25-2019
Posts: 2,836
Maybe I could somehow trademark The Castle Decon rm.™ design with package options franchised nation wide
But wait there's more act now
victor809 Offline
#36 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 4:29 PM EST
Joined: 10-14-2011
Posts: 23,866
Get a modular premolded fitting.
Brewha Offline
#37 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 4:39 PM EST
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,175
Ok Guys - we can all relax about this. The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES has commissioned a special counsel to advise about The Re-Opening of America.

And just to make all the Left Wing Hoaxers dry their crocodile tears the Magnificent Seven on the counsel will be lead by the formidable wisdom and insight of Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner!

So go have a drink.

Make it a double.
rfenst Offline
#38 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 5:22 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,323
tonygraz wrote:
Back in the 60's there were around 60,000 traffic deaths a year, so we are getting safer with even more cars on the roads. And with the partial economy shut down accidents are more infrequent, even influencing some insurance companies to issue rebates of premiums paid. The real suffering is on the low income folks that live from paycheck to paycheck.

That might be something over 50% of our country's folks.
DrafterX Offline
#39 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 5:25 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
Ivanka's resume needs some more padding if she's gonna be President some day... Mellow
rfenst Offline
#40 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 5:31 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,323
Does she have nice tits?
DrafterX Offline
#41 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 5:31 PM EST
Joined: 10-18-2005
Posts: 98,551
Yes.. yes she does... Mellow
Speyside Offline
#42 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 5:38 PM EST
Joined: 03-16-2015
Posts: 13,106
On that we can agree.
delta1 Offline
#43 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 6:05 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
victor809 wrote:
Hehe... there's probably some Dr's who really could use a home set-up like that.


doctors, nurses, orderlies, cleaning crews and other medical facilities staff that are exposed to high volume of corona virus everyday...

senior assisted living staff...those places seem to be petri dishes because some of the aides move from site to site to site during the day...
MACS Offline
#44 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 6:07 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,779
Brewha wrote:
Ok Guys - we can all relax about this. The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES has commissioned a special counsel to advise about The Re-Opening of America.

And just to make all the Left Wing Hoaxers dry their crocodile tears the Magnificent Seven on the counsel will be lead by the formidable wisdom and insight of Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner!

So go have a drink.

Make it a double.


Saw that... and believe it or not had a similar reaction. What the hell qualifications do they have??
delta1 Offline
#45 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 6:08 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,788
Brewha wrote:
Ok Guys - we can all relax about this. The PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES has commissioned a special counsel to advise about The Re-Opening of America.

And just to make all the Left Wing Hoaxers dry their crocodile tears the Magnificent Seven on the counsel will be lead by the formidable wisdom and insight of Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner!

So go have a drink.

Make it a double.


WTH...what about Chelsea Clinton? or Jenna Bush? or Barbara Bush?
engletl Offline
#46 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 6:09 PM EST
Joined: 12-26-2000
Posts: 26,493
MACS wrote:
Saw that... and believe it or not had a similar reaction. What the hell qualifications do they have??

One sucks and one blows maybe???

Whistle
MACS Offline
#47 Posted: Mon, Apr 13 2020, 6:15 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,779
In Ivanka's case I'm gonna need a private demonstration. Whistle
rfenst Offline
#48 Posted: Tue, Apr 14 2020, 5:21 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,323
delta1 wrote:
WTH...what about Chelsea Clinton? or Jenna Bush? or Barbara Bush?

Jenna was cute.
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Back to Top