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Last post 24 months ago by BuckyB93. 50 replies replies.
Recycling EV Batteries
frankj1 Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Ascend, a Westborough, MA company is pioneering one of a few ways being developed to recycle worn out electric car batteries...

"Founded in 2015 by scientists from Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Ascend uses a blend of water and acids to extract nearly everything of value from old lithium-ion batteries, in a process that consumes little energy and leaves behind no toxic waste."

..."while other recyclers end up with metal oxides that must undergo further processing, Ascend converts the recycled metals into brand-new cathodes, ready for use in new batteries."

They are building a plant in GA with plans to be running this year.

Today's (May 31) Boston Globe Business section.

Sunoverbeach Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,665
That's out of Wor-ches-tur you say?
frankj1 Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Sunoverbeach wrote:
That's out of Wor-ches-tur you say?

better check wif Bucky, he lives closer.
Tailgater was a pollywog out that way last century
Brewha Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,173
frankj1 wrote:
Ascend, a Westborough, MA company is pioneering one of a few ways being developed to recycle worn out electric car batteries...

"Founded in 2015 by scientists from Worcester Polytechnic Institute, Ascend uses a blend of water and acids to extract nearly everything of value from old lithium-ion batteries, in a process that consumes little energy and leaves behind no toxic waste."

..."while other recyclers end up with metal oxides that must undergo further processing, Ascend converts the recycled metals into brand-new cathodes, ready for use in new batteries."

They are building a plant in GA with plans to be running this year.

Today's (May 31) Boston Globe Business section.


So you are saying they are an enemy of the people for not Making America Great Again?

Green solutions are Kryptonite for the MAGA crowd, and many here on The Bid…..

You know that green solutions are “ecological disasters” right?
Like LED bulbs, recycling, EV’s, or (god help us) composting.
frankj1 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
I know, but I'm an optimist...not an ophthalmologist.

Brewha Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,173
frankj1 wrote:
I know, but I'm an optimist...not an ophthalmologist.


Ok, the this is a myopic crowd. Try to know the audience….
Brewha Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,173
BTW, got a VIN number on my new EV today.
I look forward to Cbid shame as I drive for 20 cents on the dollars and hopelessly out class them…..

Herfing
ZRX1200 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
Great to hear (OP not Brewha, picking on poor kids in Turd world countries dirty mining rare earth metals.
frankj1 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
could be one of a few technologies coming soon...




















Sunoverbeach Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,665
What’s worse than overcooked steak?
Death.
HockeyDad Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,130
Brewha wrote:
BTW, got a VIN number on my new EV today.
I look forward to Cbid shame as I drive for 20 cents on the dollars and hopelessly out class them…..

Herfing


Your driving a car powered by coal and natural gas. You’re a menace to the planet.
frankj1 Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Hey op...

wrong forum, noob!
MACS Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,774
Sunoverbeach wrote:
That's out of Wor-ches-tur you say?


It's pronounced WUSS-tah.
BuckyB93 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,188
Looks like the Westboro facility is near the technology park where I worked when I first moved out here.

Without knowing anything of their process or looking into it, they probably take in old batteries and shred them up or get in shredded battery scrap from another player. Then, my guess is, they do a series of separation steps like mechanically sifting the scrap through a series of screens to get out the out the "fluff" (any plastics and paper and such - throw that $hit away). Collect larger shreddings like foils that didn't shred well and siphon that stuff off for further processing/recycling. Maybe some magnets to pull out iron (magnetic) compounds - recycle that on site or send it out to a third party.

The fluff and other shreddings they are not interested in are probably put in a scrap barrel or made into a bale and a third party buys it off of them.

The leftover stuff is is what they really want: lithium, cobalt, manganese, nickel. These are primary elements needed for lithium batteries which are all tied up together in a few compounds of the the battery anodes and cathodes. These compounds tend to be rather brittle so probably can be pulverized into "sand" or "dust" during the shredding process. Then either dissolve this stuff in solution and selectively try to precipitate it out as a salt, oxide, or carbonate or maybe sludge. Another way would be to try to pull it out of solution via a electro-chemical method (electroplate it out of solution).

This is the reclaim process where, unless you are an idiot, you get higher purity of the stuff you want from the junk you put into it. With that said, you still have waste that you'll need to dispose of - the crap that you don't want or need.

I didn't do much work with Li other then when we were using it as an alloy addition with silver help increase the mechanical properties of the silver we were using. Problem, for our product, was Li really likes oxygen... like REALLY LIKES oxygen... it would "getter" oxygen and starve the main reaction of oxygen that we need in other parts of the wire composite. It ended up as a no go for our situation but we did land a handful of SBIRs to work on it. Used Lithium, Aluminum, and Mercury as alloy additions but none of them panned out too well.

My favorite was Gallium. I loved working with that $hit. Researched a ton of old write ups and patents. Spend many days in the Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI) library (Whoopie as they call it here... it's Central MA version of MIT). Found some tech articles and patents dated back to the 40's on using Gallium to heal cracks on the Aluminum skins of WWII planes when they returned from combat. We were able to take that knowledge and adapt it to our niche need for a project we were working on.

I'm all for recycling, repurposing, composting and all that stuff. If one can make a profitable business doing so, then go for it.
BuckyB93 Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,188
MACS wrote:
It's pronounced WUSS-tah.


This is the correct pronunciation.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,665
I'm aware of that. Just being difficult
Brewha Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,173
HockeyDad wrote:
Your driving a car powered by coal and natural gas. You’re a menace to the planet.

You call that shaming?
frankj1 Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
BuckyB93 wrote:
Looks like the Westboro facility is near the technology park where I worked when I first moved out here.

Without knowing anything of their process or looking into it, they probably take in old batteries and shred them up or get in shredded battery scrap from another player. Then, my guess is, they do a series of separation steps like mechanically sifting the scrap through a series of screens to get out the out the "fluff" (any plastics and paper and such - throw that $hit away). Collect larger shreddings like foils that didn't shred well and siphon that stuff off for further processing/recycling. Maybe some magnets to pull out iron (magnetic) compounds - recycle that on site or send it out to a third party.

The fluff and other shreddings they are not interested in are probably put in a scrap barrel or made into a bale and a third party buys it off of them.

The leftover stuff is is what they really want: lithium, cobalt, manganese, nickel. These are primary elements needed for lithium batteries which are all tied up together in a few compounds of the the battery anodes and cathodes. These compounds tend to be rather brittle so probably can be pulverized into "sand" or "dust" during the shredding process. Then either dissolve this stuff in solution and selectively try to precipitate it out as a salt, oxide, or carbonate or maybe sludge. Another way would be to try to pull it out of solution via a electro-chemical method (electroplate it out of solution).

This is the reclaim process where, unless you are an idiot, you get higher purity of the stuff you want from the junk you put into it. With that said, you still have waste that you'll need to dispose of - the crap that you don't want or need.

I didn't do much work with Li other then when we were using it as an alloy addition with silver help increase the mechanical properties of the silver we were using. Problem, for our product, was Li really likes oxygen... like REALLY LIKES oxygen... it would "getter" oxygen and starve the main reaction of oxygen that we need in other parts of the wire composite. It ended up as a no go for our situation but we did land a handful of SBIRs to work on it. Used Lithium, Aluminum, and Mercury as alloy additions but none of them panned out too well.

My favorite was Gallium. I loved working with that $hit. Researched a ton of old write ups and patents. Spend many days in the Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI) library (Whoopie as they call it here... it's Central MA version of MIT). Found some tech articles and patents dated back to the 40's on using Gallium to heal cracks on the Aluminum skins of WWII planes when they returned from combat. We were able to take that knowledge and adapt it to our niche need for a project we were working on.

I'm all for recycling, repurposing, composting and all that stuff. If one can make a profitable business doing so, then go for it.


though not a deep dive into the process, the article does cover their process better than the couple of quotes I pulled from it.
Not sure how to find it to post but it was from The Globe. Would mean more to you than to me, probably.
RayR Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
MACS wrote:
It's pronounced WUSS-tah.


So the residents are then called Wussies? Think
frankj1 Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/05/26/business/mass-startup-has-better-way-recycle-ev-batteries/?p1=StaffPage

Hope this works. Looks like it was posted on 5/26 but not printed in the Boston Globe newspaper until 5/31
frankj1 Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
RayR wrote:
So the residents are then called Wussies? Think

still better than being from Old Shamokin!*





*adapted without permission from original work by Allan Sherman, My Son The Folk Singer
RayR Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
I suppose they are building a plant in Georgia because they don't want to bury all that toxic waste anywhere near the green state of Massachusetts?
BuckyB93 Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,188
Couldn't dig up the patent on a quick search but did run into this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwtmDFwL_Lk


Looks like they shred the incoming material, sive (screen) out the stuff that they don't want and harvest what they do want. Then take that stuff and, through a wet chemistry process, dissolve it into solution and precipitate out the nickel, cobalt, lithium, etc... Then use that stuff as refined feed stock to make new anodes and cathodes for new batteries.

Seems like locating a plant in GA was both for economical reasons and strategic reasons. I'm sure labor costs and building costs in GA are much cheaper than here in MA (economics). Much of their planned feed stock for their recycling process will come from reclaiming scraps from the battery manufacturers themselves (virgin scrap) along with shredding up old batteries (post consumer scrap). Then sell the reclaimed/recycled raw materials back to the battery manufacturers... so locating a plant in the areas where batteries and vehicles are made makes strategical sense.

The guy in the video mentions this type of partnership near the end of the video. They have partnerships with Honda USA, LandRover, and a battery manufacturer in GA. As he describes it, it would be a "closed loop" situation where they (Ascend) collects, recycles and refines their scrap then sells the refined material back to them.
ZRX1200 Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,599
Still need to clean up the front end of the process.
BuckyB93 Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,188
ZRX1200 wrote:
Still need to clean up the front end of the process.


True. Any mining and harvesting raw ore from the ground for materials like this is a dirty process.

This is where creating and developing Replicants comes in. Then we'll Blade Runners and stuff, that's a whole different industry yet to be tapped.
Stogie1020 Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,327
Worcester... 'nuff said.

I do like their sauce, though.
frankj1 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
great in a Bloody Mary
I bet you even know how to say it.
Stogie1020 Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,327
frankj1 wrote:
great in a Bloody Mary
I bet you even know how to say it.


Yup. I got in trouble a few times in at Clark U.
frankj1 Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,221
Stogie1020 wrote:
Yup. I got in trouble a few times in at Clark U.

you're a cou-gah?
Stogie1020 Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,327
Nah, they hosted a "Model U.N." program for high school kids and our school went every year.
BuckyB93 Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,188
Dr. Robert Goddard was a prof at Clark University.

Launched the first liquid fueled rocket in Auburn, MA back in 1926.
Mr. Jones Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,421
#4 brewha

Hey...

Dude....

I compost...still do...

Been doing it since the 1970's when is was wide spread and a normal solution to yard waste....

Then the 1980's came around with grass bags , grass bagging mowers and GLAD TRASH BAGS ...
RICH REPUBLICANS DEMANDED LANDSCAPERS TO BAG ALL CLIPPINGS ....

""ALL GRASS CLIPPINGS MUST GO TO THE LANDFILL SO MY GLAD BAG STOCKS SKYROCKET IN VALUE" was the elephant party line....

HENCE THE DECLINE OF COMPOSTING TURNING IT INTO A COMMUNIST THREAT....
RayR Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
Brewha don't compost nothin'. He prolly wants all that yard waste buried in a landfill like all NIMBY libs where it goes anaerobic and puts out methane gas and adds to causing climate change they complain about.
Brewha Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,173
Mr. Jones wrote:
#4 brewha

Hey...

Dude....

I compost...still do...

Been doing it since the 1970's when is was wide spread and a normal solution to yard waste....

Then the 1980's came around with grass bags , grass bagging mowers and GLAD TRASH BAGS ...
RICH REPUBLICANS DEMANDED LANDSCAPERS TO BAG ALL CLIPPINGS ....

""ALL GRASS CLIPPINGS MUST GO TO THE LANDFILL SO MY GLAD BAG STOCKS SKYROCKET IN VALUE" was the elephant party line....

HENCE THE DECLINE OF COMPOSTING TURNING IT INTO A COMMUNIST THREAT....

Right, so I was being sarcastic.

People always seem to throw a hissy fit when society tries to make a change for the better. Remember when seatbelt became a law? people would not STFU about their rights. Heard the same crap when the govmut phased out incandescent bulbs. Now people are "outraged" because windmills are killing bald eagles (I guess regulars eagles are ok).

I got 6 grandkids, so yeah, I like to not screw up the environment.

Oh, LED bulbs rock - almost the whole house is converted.
HockeyDad Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,130
RayR wrote:
Brewha don't compost nothin'. He prolly wants all that yard waste buried in a landfill like all NIMBY libs where it goes anaerobic and puts out methane gas and adds to causing climate change they complain about.


That’s illegal here. Even food scraps can’t go in the landfill.
Stogie1020 Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 12-19-2019
Posts: 5,327
I have a garbage disposal. It's like a butthole with a grinder in my sink. Am I good for the environment or bad?
Brewha Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 01-25-2010
Posts: 12,173
Stogie1020 wrote:
I have a garbage disposal. It's like a butthole with a grinder in my sink. Am I good for the environment or bad?

Disposals need to eat too!
RayR Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
HockeyDad wrote:
That’s illegal here. Even food scraps can’t go in the landfill.


I heard pert near everything is illegal in California. If not they are working on it.
HockeyDad Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,130
Stogie1020 wrote:
I have a garbage disposal. It's like a butthole with a grinder in my sink. Am I good for the environment or bad?


We have a drought here so they hate garbage disposals.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,665
What did the little boy do in the cold weather?
He put his coat on.
rfenst Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,304
Stogie1020 wrote:
Worcester... 'nuff said.

I do like their sauce, though.

GREAT stuff on the Italian-like Spanish salad dressing on 1905 salad at Columbia restaurant's in Ybor City?
(Waiting for Hockey Dad, JOJOC or MadVibe to chime in on this one!
RayR Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
Don't the Wussies pronounce "Worcester" as Wuuusster?
BuckyB93 Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,188
There is no "r" so its more like "Woustaa"

"Wou" as in "wood" or "would"
"taa" as in "taadaa"

Woustaa

R's are saved to add to the end of other words like "Honder" - the make of a car.
RayR Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
Ok, got it. No R's with them funny talking New Englanders except if they replace an "A" with an "R" at the end of a word.
HockeyDad Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,130
RayR wrote:
Don't the Wussies pronounce "Worcester" as Wuuusster?


It rhymes with rooster.
HockeyDad Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,130
rfenst wrote:
GREAT stuff on the Italian-like Spanish salad dressing on 1905 salad at Columbia restaurant's in Ybor City?
(Waiting for Hockey Dad, JOJOC or MadVibe to chime in on this one!


I make that salad prolly at least twice a month. Worcestershire is the secret ingredient. Well it’s not really secret since they publish the recipe!
RayR Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,888
HockeyDad wrote:
It rhymes with rooster.


But "rooster" would be pronounced Woosta. Right?
HockeyDad Offline
#48 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,130
RayR wrote:
But "rooster" would be pronounced Woosta. Right?


Correct.
BuckyB93 Offline
#49 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,188
RayR wrote:
But "rooster" would be pronounced Woosta. Right?


Kinda sorta... not much difference... but determining whether your talking about the animal or the city there is a little bit of a difference in the inflection of your voice and the context of the conversation.

If talking about the animal you'd add a little bit more of the "r." Like "rouxsta." As in roux - a mixture of flour (flowa), water (wata) and fats for a thickening agent in soups and stuff.

If talking about the city it would be more "woo"

"They won't let me own a rouxsta within the city limits of Woosta"


Four tee NINE!
BuckyB93 Offline
#50 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,188
https://www.masslive.com/entertainment/2016/08/10_commonly_mispronounced_city.html
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