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what if Cipollone...
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frankj1 Offline
#1 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 2:29 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
might not reveal much at all but what if...

1) he verifies Hutchinson's testimony?
Hard as it would be to admit being conned, would righty put the country over the Donald finally?
Would righty finally drop the election fraud charges and believe Team Trump actually tried to steal the election ?

2) discredits Hutchinson's testimony?
Would that put and end to the investigation and lefty admit it was based on personal bias?
Would lefty start to question the trustworthiness of the media?
Would unrelated criminal investigations end?

or...?
delta1 Online
#2 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 4:10 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,797
he will mostly corroborate Hutchinson, but will not sway the right or the left...

facts don't matter to the right...

left thinks right plays by same rules
MACS Offline
#3 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 4:12 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,800
Yeah. Trump tried to "steal" the election...

And 81 million people voted for Biden. GTFO here with that crap.

Ballots appearing in the middle of the night... dominion voting machines... the fix was in.
delta1 Online
#4 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 4:24 PM EST
Joined: 11-23-2011
Posts: 28,797
he's still trying...

numerous audits demanded by Trump and the right, and lawsuits filed by the same in nearly every state and the Supreme Court, showed no evidence of widespread fraud...facts

Dominion's defamation lawsuits are proceeding
RayR Offline
#5 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 6:06 PM EST
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,898
Delta is probably one of those 2000 Mules I heard about.
frankj1 Offline
#6 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 6:40 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
MACS wrote:
Yeah. Trump tried to "steal" the election...

And 81 million people voted for Biden. GTFO here with that crap.

Ballots appearing in the middle of the night... dominion voting machines... the fix was in.

remember the Rudy line...we have lots of theories but no evidence...you just listed a few of them that seem believable to you, make sense to you, you want to be true more than anything, and yet all have been disproven repeatedly...
They are exactly the stuff I'm asking if righty would have to swallow as having been conned if Cipollone corroborates other testimony.

I'm asking about Cipollone corroborating testimony, if he does, you'd actually question him too?

He was probably Trump's top attorney/legal mind in the White House and has allegedly said he repeatedly warned Trump and Meadows (Hutchinson's direct boss) they were risking big trouble. Why would he advise that?

If he did, if it leads to proof that Trump & Co ignored the election truth, lied to you and everyone else, it wouldn't get you to admit you bought the Big Lie?

BTW, Dominion just might be awarded zillions for having the claims about their machines absolutely discredited in every single case.


And before you ask, if it all turns out to be a big conspiracy, I'll be at the front of the line saying I bought a story...
Hey, I was shocked, shocked...that Clinton really did lie under oath about a ****.
frankj1 Offline
#7 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 6:43 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
lie about a B. J.
MACS Offline
#8 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 6:59 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,800
frankj1 wrote:
lie about a B. J.


And that was all it was, too, right? Just a Beej? He never tapped it?

The problem I have, Frank, is all these mother f---ers do is LIE to us. Again, and again. They lied about Russian collusion, they lied about the Steel Dossier, they lied about the phone calls... remember when Schiff had the smoking gun? And it never materialized?

You believe it because you want it to be true, no?

If they have rock solid, no BS... can't be refuted evidence, yep... I will say "Sonofabeotch... they got me".

Problem is... it ain't gonna happen. The dog and pony show will continue.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#9 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 7:36 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,669
You rang?

Oops, guess not. Close tho
Speyside2 Offline
#10 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 7:40 PM EST
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,397
Hey guys, here is a pretty good article about how a lie can become someone's truth.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20161026-how-liars-create-the-illusion-of-truth

There is another great article from NIH, but the math is BGZ and Celtic Bomber type of stuff.

The article simply talks about humans. It is not about politics or religion.
frankj1 Offline
#11 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 8:41 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
MACS wrote:
And that was all it was, too, right? Just a Beej? He never tapped it?

The problem I have, Frank, is all these mother f---ers do is LIE to us. Again, and again. They lied about Russian collusion, they lied about the Steel Dossier, they lied about the phone calls... remember when Schiff had the smoking gun? And it never materialized?

You believe it because you want it to be true, no?

If they have rock solid, no BS... can't be refuted evidence, yep... I will say "Sonofabeotch... they got me".

Problem is... it ain't gonna happen. The dog and pony show will continue.

good enough for me, knowing you as I do.

So, my next question is: would Cipollone saying it happened do the trick?

btw, Mark Meadows was registered to vote in three states. Does that discredit anything he says?
8trackdisco Offline
#12 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 8:42 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,082
Mind numbing.

The margins are so tight and both left and right wingers so locked into their "knowledge" of the ALL situations, all the facts in the world (if the truth even moderately favored one side or the other) it wouldn't matter.

The extremists will simply continue to rip and tear us apart. Mind numbingly stupid and short sided.

Step on the gas- let's become Syria as soon as possible. That is the path we are on.

Let's get good and weak so when Gavin surrenders California to the Chinese, we get learn Mandarin on our mandatory Tic-Tok phones.

Brick wall
frankj1 Offline
#13 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 8:53 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
8trackdisco wrote:
Mind numbing.

The margins are so tight and both left and right wingers so locked into their "knowledge" of the ALL situations, all the facts in the world (if the truth even moderately favored one side or the other) it wouldn't matter.

The extremists will simply continue to rip and tear us apart. Mind numbingly stupid and short sided.

Step on the gas- let's become Syria as soon as possible. That is the path we are on.

Let's get good and weak so when Gavin surrenders California to the Chinese, we get learn Mandarin on our mandatory Tic-Tok phones.

Brick wall

I hope you're wrong!
I don't feel like a winger.

Maybe Robert can tell me that I'm over thinking things by assuming Cipollone's testimony could make or break either side.
HockeyDad Offline
#14 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 8:58 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,142
frankj1 wrote:
I hope you're wrong!
I don't feel like a winger.

Maybe Robert can tell me that I'm over thinking things by assuming Cipollone's testimony could make or break either side.



Yeah…you’re a winger!

Hey, who’s Cipollone?
borndead1 Offline
#15 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 9:14 PM EST
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,216
MACS wrote:
Yeah. Trump tried to "steal" the election...

And 81 million people voted for Biden. GTFO here with that crap.

Ballots appearing in the middle of the night... dominion voting machines... the fix was in.



And the 80+ judges who heard (and dismissed) all the claims were all in on it, too?

Here's the one question you need to ask (and it's really the only question to ask of ANY conspiracy theory): How many people would it take to keep it a secret? If the answer is more than 'a few', there's probably nothing to it.

Just one example of how a state can flip: Trump won Michigan in 2016 by just over 10,000 votes. Obama won Michigan in 2012 by 450,000 votes. So the idea that MI only went back to blue because of vote stealing is ridiculous.

And Dominion has either won their defamation lawsuits or had their lawsuits greenlit to go forward by several courts. They couldn't have done that if there was actual evidence that they committed fraud.
8trackdisco Offline
#16 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 9:16 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,082
frankj1 wrote:
I hope you're wrong!
I don't feel like a winger.

Maybe Robert can tell me that I'm over thinking things by assuming Cipollone's testimony could make or break either side.



You are an unreasonably reasonable person. Maybe you are a Cleavage Guy on a discount cigar website where 98.2% of the people posting in the Politics section are suckling exclusively on either the right or left nipple while damning the other breast.

Us motorboatin’ sumbichtes may prefer the right or left breast, but we aren’t cutting the other off.
8trackdisco Offline
#17 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 9:18 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,082
borndead1 wrote:
And the 80+ judges who heard (and dismissed) all the claims were all in on it, too?

Here's the one question you need to ask (and it's really the only question to ask of ANY conspiracy theory): How many people would it take to keep it a secret? If the answer is more than 'a few', there's probably nothing to it.


Generally, I agree. The exception would be the JFK assassination. The whole Warren Commission really believes that report?
borndead1 Offline
#18 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 9:25 PM EST
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,216
8trackdisco wrote:
Generally, I agree. The exception would be the JFK assassination. The whole Warren Commission really believes that report?



The JFK assassination is actually one of the examples I use to illustrate my theory.

Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that the earth really is flat. How many people would it take to keep that a secret? It would take every person who has ever worked for any space agency, in any country on earth, ever. That's how many people it would take to keep that a secret.

Now, contrast that with the JFK assassination. That could have been planned and executed by fewer than 10 people. Realistically, fewer than 5 people.
8trackdisco Offline
#19 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 9:30 PM EST
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,082
borndead1 wrote:
The JFK assassination is actually one of the examples I use to illustrate my theory.

Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that the earth really is flat. How many people would it take to keep that a secret? It would take every person who has ever worked for any space agency, in any country on earth, ever. That's how many people it would take to keep that a secret.

Now, contrast that with the JFK assassination. That could have been planned and executed by fewer than 10 people. Realistically, fewer than 5 people.


Planned and executed by 5 or 10 people. Let’s say you are right. How do those 5 people do a job so messy, with so many loose strings (until the witnesses died) that they were able to leave rage the 20? People on the Warren Commision.

That puts 25 people in on the sting. It is still what is pushed as the end of the story, with a larger dose of Nothing to See Here, Move Along.
borndead1 Offline
#20 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 9:45 PM EST
Joined: 11-07-2006
Posts: 5,216
8trackdisco wrote:
Planned and executed by 5 or 10 people. Let’s say you are right. How do those 5 people do a job so messy, with so many loose strings (until the witnesses died) that they were able to leave rage the 20? People on the Warren Commision.

That puts 25 people in on the sting. It is still what is pushed as the end of the story, with a larger dose of Nothing to See Here, Move Along.


Politicians generally defer to 'the experts', especially when cameras are on them. It's a sort of 'get out of jail free card' for them.

Or, possibly, the core group of conspirators had leverage on a few people on the Warren Commission. I do believe that sh*t happens. There's video somewhere of someone saying that every bedroom of the Playboy mansion had cameras in it. I'm sure Epstein's hotel was set up the same way. Even in these cases, it would only take a small handful of people to put the screws to 1 person.

I'm talking about the number of people required to pull off a major heist (for lack of a better term). Perpetuating the lie is definitely related, but it's sort of a different discussion.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#21 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 10:10 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,669
Behind every angry woman is a man who has absolutely no idea what he did wrong.
frankj1 Offline
#22 Posted: Thu, Jul 7 2022, 10:25 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
waaaay back in time, Woody Allen said he was working on a non-fiction version of the Warren Report.


But now we know what happened.
Ted Cruz's father did it...according to Trump...well, that's what "he heard".
bgz Offline
#23 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2022, 12:44 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
borndead1 wrote:
And the 80+ judges who heard (and dismissed) all the claims were all in on it, too?

Here's the one question you need to ask (and it's really the only question to ask of ANY conspiracy theory): How many people would it take to keep it a secret? If the answer is more than 'a few', there's probably nothing to it.


I've tried to argue that to some of these guys...

They don't listen. Suspected scratcher buyers.
frankj1 Offline
#24 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2022, 11:29 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
I always forget to add Sidney Powell to the list with Rudy.
She came up with a lot of the unbelievable voting machine conspiracy theories that were believed by millions, and still are.

btw, I must repeat this: Hugo Chavez died 7 years before the 2020 election and his family did not own any of the voting machine manufacturers.
So, there went several states people think had illegitimate counts...two years ago!

I dunno, I seem to be the only one excited to learn what Cipollone says...likely it will be severely limited in substance, but I'm feeling like it's a potential John Dean Watergate moment.
That's an exciting time to live in political history, regardless of one's sympathies.
Speyside2 Offline
#25 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2022, 12:29 PM EST
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,397
There was no voting machine fraud. If there was why would NewsMax have settled? Why have the courts only dismissed a couple of charges?
rfenst Offline
#26 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2022, 1:25 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
MACS wrote:
Yeah. Trump tried to "steal" the election...

And 81 million people voted for Biden. GTFO here with that crap.

Ballots appearing in the middle of the night... dominion voting machines... the fix was in.

Allegations are salacious, but show us the proof, Rudy, where's the proof?
rfenst Offline
#27 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2022, 1:42 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
frankj1 wrote:
I hope you're wrong!
I don't feel like a winger.

Maybe Robert can tell me that I'm over thinking things by assuming Cipollone's testimony could make or break either side.

It could break some of the right politicians' opinions of what happened. If he demies what Hutchinson said in a major way, her testimony is tainted a bit. But remember, some of what she testified to she personally observed and heard

What I find interesting is that CIPPILONE IS NOT TRUMP'S LAWYER and owes him no (zero) duty of confidentiality unless it concerns the Presidency/Presidential Office- not the man. His job is to guide and protect the Presidency to protect the institution.

Still, he might take The Fifth or claim privilege(s) which are both easy to get around. If, for example, Cippilone was granted immunity, he would be compelled to talk or sit in jail until he does. If he claims Executive Privilege, well... Bidden has or will waive it as he has already done.
HockeyDad Offline
#28 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2022, 3:31 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,142
rfenst wrote:
Allegations are salacious, but show us the proof, Rudy, where's the proof?


If I make a dossier you’ll automatically believe it, right?
rfenst Offline
#29 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2022, 3:35 PM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
HockeyDad wrote:
If I make a dossier you’ll automatically believe it, right?

No.
But, there isn't even a dossier (or a file, specific pleadings, depositions, testimony, documents, digital evidence, etc., etc.).
HockeyDad Offline
#30 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2022, 3:43 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,142
rfenst wrote:
No.
But, there isn't even a dossier (or a file, specific pleadings, depositions, testimony, documentary, digital evidence, etc., etc.).


I can whip one up. Everyone like dossiers. It’s a French word!
tailgater Offline
#31 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2022, 4:13 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
delta1 wrote:
he will mostly corroborate Hutchinson, but will not sway the right or the left...

facts don't matter to the right...

left thinks right plays by same rules


Look at the Jan 6 committee. How it was formed. Who formed. WHY they formed it. The way they're disseminating the information.

You're correct about one thing: The right doesn't play by the same rules.
And thank God for that.

Using TDS to put an exclamation on 45's tenure is self serving for those currently in power. It's sad you feel otherwise.
tailgater Offline
#32 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2022, 4:15 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
might not reveal much at all but what if...

1) he verifies Hutchinson's testimony?
Hard as it would be to admit being conned, would righty put the country over the Donald finally?
Would righty finally drop the election fraud charges and believe Team Trump actually tried to steal the election ?

2) discredits Hutchinson's testimony?
Would that put and end to the investigation and lefty admit it was based on personal bias?
Would lefty start to question the trustworthiness of the media?
Would unrelated criminal investigations end?

or...?



You realize that there is no "verify or discredit" here, don't you?
He'll say something vague enough for both sides to run with it.
And the left have a way of running with more gusto.
You know. Because there are good people on both sides...
frankj1 Offline
#33 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2022, 6:13 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
tailgater wrote:
You realize that there is no "verify or discredit" here, don't you?
He'll say something vague enough for both sides to run with it.
And the left have a way of running with more gusto.
You know. Because there are good people on both sides...



well, I did mention up front it might not reveal much at all, so I was posing a what if type situation, and to both sides.
Thought we could run with scenarios...wrong.

What if this or that gets said or clarified, would you still cling to what you want to believe regardless?

Sounds like "nope".
Sunoverbeach Offline
#34 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2022, 10:13 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,669
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.
MACS Offline
#35 Posted: Fri, Jul 8 2022, 10:31 PM EST
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,800
frankj1 wrote:
good enough for me, knowing you as I do.

So, my next question is: would Cipollone saying it happened do the trick?

btw, Mark Meadows was registered to vote in three states. Does that discredit anything he says?


Full disclosure... I don't know who that is. I ain't been watching... I did see clips of the Hutchinson broad lying her ass off, though.

I worked in a jail for 13 years, buddy... I can spot a liar.
rfenst Offline
#36 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2022, 6:01 AM EST
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,336
MACS wrote:
Full disclosure... I don't know who that is. I ain't been watching... I did see clips of the Hutchinson broad lying her ass off, though.

I worked in a jail for 13 years, buddy... I can spot a liar.

Whole clips?
Wow!
tailgater Offline
#37 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2022, 3:09 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
well, I did mention up front it might not reveal much at all, so I was posing a what if type situation, and to both sides.
Thought we could run with scenarios...wrong.

What if this or that gets said or clarified, would you still cling to what you want to believe regardless?

Sounds like "nope".


And what do I "want to believe"?

This committee is a joke. The fact that you give it credence explains your belief far better than it explains mine. The committee is a joke.
This is akin to Trump trying to drum up proof of a stolen election. If he and the GOP put together a committee with 7 like-minded republicans and 2 weak kneed democrats, would you be convinced by anything they "revealed"?

Every new smoking gun is based on conjecture and hearsay. Innuendo is their best friend. They hate Trump, have severe TDS, and want something to stick long enough to sway the public.

This committee is a joke.
tailgater Offline
#38 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2022, 3:10 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
rfenst wrote:
Whole clips?
Wow!


Based on her testimony, I'd say you spelled "hole" wrong.
RMAN4443 Offline
#39 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2022, 7:04 PM EST
Joined: 09-29-2016
Posts: 7,683
HockeyDad wrote:
I can whip one up. Everyone like dossiers. It’s a French word!

like derriere ?Think
HockeyDad Offline
#40 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2022, 8:10 PM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,142
RMAN4443 wrote:
like derriere ?Think


The French influence is strong in our vocabulary.

Sunoverbeach Offline
#41 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2022, 9:03 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,669
Je m’en fous
frankj1 Offline
#42 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2022, 9:57 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
I'm not focused on the committee's interpretation of the testimonies, I'm listening to the testimony being given under oath by mostly those very close to Trump.

Re: #35, Shawn...Cipollone defended Trump at the Impeachment (I can't believe you don't know who he is!)...that's why I centered on what he verifies and/or discredits.

You think he's been flipped?
That's nuts.
Sunoverbeach Offline
#43 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2022, 9:59 PM EST
Joined: 08-11-2017
Posts: 14,669
En Francais, s'il vous plait
frankj1 Offline
#44 Posted: Sat, Jul 9 2022, 10:05 PM EST
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,222
tant pis
HockeyDad Offline
#45 Posted: Sun, Jul 10 2022, 2:27 AM EST
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,142
Did Ciopino release the HockeyDad Dossier?
Speyside2 Offline
#46 Posted: Sun, Jul 10 2022, 6:40 AM EST
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,397
Yes, it is rather danming, it seems he was your fixer.
bgz Offline
#47 Posted: Sun, Jul 10 2022, 8:12 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
MACS wrote:
Full disclosure... I don't know who that is. I ain't been watching... I did see clips of the Hutchinson broad lying her ass off, though.

I worked in a jail for 13 years, buddy... I can spot a liar.


When you spent your life in a sea of lies I question your ability to see the truth.
tailgater Offline
#48 Posted: Sun, Jul 10 2022, 8:39 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
frankj1 wrote:
I'm not focused on the committee's interpretation of the testimonies, I'm listening to the testimony being given under oath by mostly those very close to Trump.

.


Please.
Look what's happening here.
Everyone is trying to save their own skin by distancing themselves from Trump.

This joke committee is going to "trial" with thrice removed hearsay. When called to task, they offer an innocent "well, anyone is welcomed to testify".
They're a joke.
They let the lies float out there. You can't un-hear them.

tailgater Offline
#49 Posted: Sun, Jul 10 2022, 8:42 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
bgz wrote:
When you spent your life in a sea of lies I question your ability to see the truth.


He clearly stated that he recognizes the lies for what they are, rendering your "question" invalid.
Reading comprehension. Google it.
bgz Offline
#50 Posted: Sun, Jul 10 2022, 9:09 AM EST
Joined: 07-29-2014
Posts: 13,023
tailgater wrote:
He clearly stated that he recognizes the lies for what they are, rendering your "question" invalid.
Reading comprehension. Google it.



If everyone you encounter is a lier... how can I trust that you would know honesty when you see it?

Take your own advice maybe?

Seriously... I can write this n + 1 ways...
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