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Poll Question : Favorite US Supreme Court Justice?
Choice Votes Statistics
Sonia Sotomayor 0 0 %
Amy Coney Barrett 1 6 %
Elena Kagan 0 0 %
Ketanji Brown Jackson 2 12 %
Brett Kavanaugh 1 6 %
Neil Gorsuch 0 0 %
Clarence Thomas 7 43 %
Samuel Alito 1 6 %
John Roberts 4 25 %
Total 16 100%

Favorite US Supreme Court Justice?
HockeyDad Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,156
Favorite current judge….
Mr. Jones Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,433
Jackson...

Only because she's the biggest bull****ter and GRIFTER
ON THE ENTIRE BENCH ...BAR NONE...
SHES WORSE THAN POCAHONTAS FROM VERMONT?
THE AMERICAN INDIAN...ALLeDgEdLy

Jackson used every avenue( legal, illegal, stretching the troof, outright fraud, or whatever) to further her career...
And got away with it.. ALLeDgEdLy
8trackdisco Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,084
Today, I like six of them equally.
RayR Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,912
In the affirmative action case, Jackson thinks racial discrimination through affirmative action policies at colleges is cool.

Thomas wrote., "As she sees things, we are all inexorably trapped in a fundamentally racist society, with the original sin of slavery and the historical subjugation of black Americans still determining our lives today,"

ALLeDgEdLy, Ketanji Brown Jackson still doesn’t know what a ‘woman’ Is because as she said during her confirmation hearing, “I can’t. … I’m not a biologist,”
ZRX1200 Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
Laughed my ass off watching the pearl clutching and swooning cries of despair. Then going to two “legal expert” white broads that were leftist kooks followed up by that shiny beacon of thought and purity Donna Brassiere.

My daughter couldn’t understand my laughter and name calling at the TV so I had to walk her through racists crying over their perceived racism. And how Asians have been getting ****ed by these people because not all POC are equal POC.
8trackdisco Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,084
A great day for a concept I hold dear….. Equality.

Now there needs to be a Supreme Court challenge to hate crime legislation.

Judy another unequal way of distributing justice.

Speyside2 Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,405
I think the 14th amendment has been abused for a long time. I wholeheartedly agree with this decision.
BuckyB93 Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,212
I might be in the minority but I would also agree with this decision. Equality is the goal of how this country should strive to be based on.

MLK Jr. pretty much summed it up with his "I Have a Dream" speech after the march on Washington. Even though it was basically about color of skin and such but his words should also apply to gender, religion, and so forth.

"...one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal... I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
BuckyB93 Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 07-16-2004
Posts: 14,212
NINE!
Abrignac Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,306
8trackdisco wrote:
A great day for a concept I hold dear….. Equality.

Now there needs to be a Supreme Court challenge to hate crime legislation.

Judy another unequal way of distributing justice.



That and the talk of reparations. As any payout would clearly be based on skin color if done consistent with the current, but idiotic, discussions currently being had on the subject.
8trackdisco Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,084
BuckyB93 wrote:
I might be in the minority but I would also agree with this decision. Equality is the goal of how this country should strive to be based on.

MLK Jr. pretty much summed it up with his "I Have a Dream" speech after the march on Washington. Even though it was basically about color of skin and such but his words should also apply to gender, religion, and so forth.

"...one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal... I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."


Right with you, Buck.
8trackdisco Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,084
Abrignac wrote:
That and the talk of reparations. As any payout would clearly be based on skin color if done consistent with the current, but idiotic, discussions currently being had on the subject.


If any reparations are due, start with Africans (specifically Egyptians) making sure every penny due the Jews is paid.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
BuckyB93 wrote:
I might be in the minority but I would also agree with this decision. Equality is the goal of how this country should strive to be based on.

MLK Jr. pretty much summed it up with his "I Have a Dream" speech after the march on Washington. Even though it was basically about color of skin and such but his words should also apply to gender, religion, and so forth.

"...one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: ‘We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal... I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."


AMEN!

This is what we were taught in school and this is how I've lived my life.
ZRX1200 Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
More pearl clutching and moaning this morning, SPECIAL REPORT!!!

LMAO…..so upset that Bido’s overstepped authority forgiving student loan debt didn’t work out.

And free association and speech upheld for web designer not being forced into LGBTQ.

Oh the huge manatee!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
ZRX1200 wrote:
More pearl clutching and moaning this morning, SPECIAL REPORT!!!

LMAO…..so upset that Bido’s overstepped authority forgiving student loan debt didn’t work out.

And free association and speech upheld for web designer not being forced into LGBTQ.

Oh the huge manatee!



Frying pan Frying pan Frying pan

You can see where the mindset was going to go right off the bat with this one if it "flew".

Car loans, home loans, medical bills...you signed up for something...received the benefits of said item...and now you want someone that had either gone a different route or never fell into the traps to pay for it????

Life doesn't have any "safety nets" and people better figure out Freedom fast because it's like a skid plate on a baja racer. Once it's gone, you're done. Race finished before you ever cross the real finish line.
RayR Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,912
The LEFTIES are taking a beating. More 6-3 decisions.

I can hear the calls for packing the court again.



RayR Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,912
It's true, Joey B. is unhinged from real history and current reality. He should have a nice little room at Shady Acres Rest Home where he can wallow in his fantasies.

Biden’s “Normal”: The President’s Constitutional Takes are Becoming More Unhinged from History

The decision of the Supreme Court to end the use of race in college admissions was not unexpected. Indeed, the rulings in cases involving Harvard and the University of North Carolina ended decades of muddled 5-4 decisions. Yet, President Joe Biden seemed to go into full attack mode and actually claimed that the Court gutted the constitutional guarantee that “all men and women are created equal.” In declaring that this Court was not “normal,” Biden further insisted that these admissions decisions and the Dobbs abortion decision reversed the gains that “we fought a war over in 1860” to secure.


In an interview on MSNBC’s “Deadline: White House,” President Biden accused the Court of ignoring what “the Constitution says: We hold these truths to be self-evident, all men and women are created equal, endowed by their creator.” That is actually the Declaration of Independence, but it was the substance of the point that was so baffling.

In barring the use of race in admissions, the Court believed that it was protecting that very guarantee. It erased what the Court viewed as a glaring anomaly in its cases in the treatment of racial discrimination in education as opposed to employment. It was the capstone opinion for Chief Justice John Roberts who in 2017 declared: “The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” In 2006, Roberts added: “It is a sordid business, this divvying us up by race.”

The Court was enforcing what it saw as the “self-evident” guarantee referenced in the Declaration and later protected in the Fourteenth Amendment. The Court reaffirmed that all men and women are created equal and will be treated equally in both education and employment.

More...

https://jonathanturley.org/2023/06/30/bidens-civil-war-the-presidents-constitutional-takes-are-becoming-more-unhinged-from-history/#more-206887
8trackdisco Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,084
The Supremes went 3-0 this week?

Time for them to take the summer off.
8trackdisco Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,084
DrMaddVibe wrote:
Frying pan Frying pan Frying pan

You can see where the mindset was going to go right off the bat with this one if it "flew".

Car loans, home loans, medical bills...you signed up for something...received the benefits of said item...and now you want someone that had either gone a different route or never fell into the traps to pay for it????

Life doesn't have any "safety nets" and people better figure out Freedom fast because it's like a skid plate on a baja racer. Once it's gone, you're done. Race finished before you ever cross the real finish line.


I do wish there was a healthcare safety net. Richest country in the world should be able to provide a level of healthcare that at least doesn’t drive people into poverty. Of course the devil is always in the details.
Mr. Jones Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 06-12-2005
Posts: 19,433
Totally agree with 8 trk #19 post

++1

RayR Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,912
^ Bunch of LEFTIES. Progressivism drives people into poverty, so they want more socialism. Frying pan


COMMIE VAN JONES is devastated Boo hoo! He says those 3 BAD Trump judges are remaking America (based on the Constitution?) instead of 50 years of Progressive precedents Sad
What will happen with da DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION? 😢 ⚰️

CNN’s Van Jones Has Meltdown Over SCOTUS Rulings, Claims Trump Appointed Justices Are ‘Remaking America’ (VIDEO)

By Mike LaChance
Jun. 30, 2023 10:22 pm

Quote:
CNN’s Van Jones reacted to the new rulings from SCOTUS on Firday and he is not happy about it.

He claimed that the Trump appointed justices on the court are remaking America. He sounds completely conspiratorial as he claims that this was an operation that had been in the works for decades.

The funniest thing is that his CNN colleagues look absolutely destroyed as a result of these decisions. The atmosphere in the studio is like a funeral.

More...

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/06/cnns-van-jones-has-meltdown-scotus-rulings-claims/
rfenst Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,345
8trackdisco wrote:
I do wish there was a healthcare safety net. Richest country in the world should be able to provide a level of healthcare that at least doesn’t drive people into poverty. Of course the devil is always in the details.

Yes.
RayR Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,912
"healthcare safety net" - LEFTY EUPHEMISM FOR MORE SOCIALISM by fans of COMMIE VAN JONES.

"Richest country in the world" - LEFTY catchphrase used to justify MORE SOCIALST PLUNDER as a way of life

When plunder becomes a way of life, men create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it. — Frederic Bastiat
MACS Offline
#24 Posted:
Joined: 02-26-2004
Posts: 79,809
rfenst wrote:
Yes.


Healthcare was affordable when the government didn't interfere.
8trackdisco Offline
#25 Posted:
Joined: 11-06-2004
Posts: 60,084
MACS wrote:
Healthcare was affordable when the government didn't interfere.


Unfortunately, I worked in healthcare on both the insurance company and provider side as well.
It is so woefully inept and at the same time corrupt, it would blow your mind.

Truly wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t believe some of the stuff I’d share.

Those industries are my sweet spots. And few if any, smell worse.
RayR Offline
#26 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,912
MACS wrote:
Healthcare was affordable when the government didn't interfere.


Despite the Affordable Care Act and other LEFTY innovations, LEFTY still says that U.S. heathcare is expensive, complicated, dysfunctional, and broken and there are high numbers of underinsured or uninsured people who risk bankruptcy if they develop a serious illness.

LEFTY SOLUTION - MORE OF THE SAME, MORE SOCIALISM fog
ZRX1200 Offline
#27 Posted:
Joined: 07-08-2007
Posts: 60,626
Medicare and Medicaid are massive expenses.

I’ve seen first hand insurance companies charging more for a copay than a vendor charged for the service.

Public and private insurance both have massive issues.

I would support an overhaul of chronic care, and I support an overhaul of Medicaid.
RayR Offline
#28 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,912
Adding to MAC's historical observation that, "Healthcare was affordable when the government didn't interfere."
When there are government SOCIALIST or FACSCIST interventions into what should be free markets (education, healthcare etc...), they always turn into grossly expensive rackets.

rfenst Offline
#29 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,345
8trackdisco wrote:
Now there needs to be a Supreme Court challenge to hate crime legislation.

Nothing but confirmation you have ever been the victim of one
RayR Offline
#30 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,912
rfenst wrote:
Nothing but confirmation you have ever been the victim of one


I heard there is a legal tradition, where there is only a thing called CRIMES.
HATE CRIMES are a recent LEFTY innovation invented for political purposes, where a criminal offence, is motivated by bias toward gender identity, ethnic background or race, where the perpetrator selects their victim because of who they are, or who they are perceived to be.
rfenst Offline
#31 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,345
RayR wrote:
I heard there is a legal tradition, where there is only a thing called CRIMES.
HATE CRIMES are a recent LEFTY innovation invented for political purposes, where a criminal offence, is motivated by bias toward gender identity, ethnic background or race, where the perpetrator selects their victim because of who they are, or who they are perceived to be.

State of Mind (motivation for a crime) has always been a an element of proof of every crime.
It has always been a factor considered when a penalty is decided.
Just look at the state of mind differences between 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree murder. ..


RayR Offline
#32 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,912
rfenst wrote:
State of Mind (motivation for a crime) has always been a an element of proof of every crime.
It has always been a factor considered when a penalty is decided.
Just look at the state of mind differences between 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree murder. ..


Sooooo...what's the point of making HATE a crime in itself which carries greater penalties in addition to the ORDINARY CRIME? HATE has never existed as a separate crime outside of recent times. I strongly suspect that the motivation for all violent crimes includes some level of HATE. Just guessing you know. LOL LOL LOL LOL

THOUGHT CRIMES will be next if they aren't already a thing.

This imaginary creation called HATE CRIMES is also selectively applied by its LEFTY originators.
Examples:
If a BLACK PERP assaults or commits some other crime against an ASIAN VICTIM nobody on the LEFT goes out screaming IT'S A HATE CRIME, HIS MOTIVATION WAS HATE!
But if it's a WHITE PERP committing a crime against a BLACK VICTIM then the RACE BAITING LEFTIES will be screaming a TWO MINUTES HATE— CHARGE THAT WHITE GUY WITH A HATE CRIME TOO!

In 1984, Orwell writes: "The horrible thing about the Two Minutes Hate was not that one was obliged to act a part, but that it was impossible to avoid joining in. Within thirty seconds any pretense was always unnecessary. A hideous ecstasy of fear and vindictiveness, a desire to kill, to torture, to smash faces in with a sledge hammer, seemed to flow through the whole group of people like an electric current, turning one even against one's will into a grimacing, screaming lunatic.”



frankj1 Offline
#33 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
RayR wrote:
Sooooo...what's the point of making HATE a crime in itself which carries greater penalties in addition to the ORDINARY CRIME? HATE has never existed as a separate crime outside of recent times. I strongly suspect that the motivation for all violent crimes includes some level of HATE. Just guessing you know.

This imaginary creation called HATE CRIMES is also selectively applied by its LEFTY originators.
Examples:
If a BLACK PERP assaults or commits some other crime against an ASIAN VICTIM nobody on the LEFT goes out screaming IT'S A HATE CRIME, HIS MOTIVATION WAS HATE!
But if it's a WHITE PERP committing a crime against a BLACK VICTIM then the RACE BAITING LEFTIES will be screaming a TWO MINUTES HATE— CHARGE THAT WHITE GUY WITH A HATE CRIME TOO!




Actually, charging/prosecuting differently based on singling out some especially vile reasons for otherwise everyday common violence is not new to the world...

"The indictment of 24 Nazi government officials and organizations was filed on October 18, 1945 by the four chief prosecutors of the International Military Tribunal: Robert H Jackson of the United States, Sir Hartley Shawcross of Great Britain, Francois de Menthon of France, and Roman A Rudenko of the Soviet Union. The jurisdiction of the Tribunal included crimes against peace, war crimes, and crimes against humanity. The IMT defined crimes against humanity as "murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation...or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds." "

Also, without research at hand, I'm pretty sure you are incorrect about your examples of the limitations and unfairness of how hate crime charges are applied.

Clearly not all violent or (even nonviolent) crimes committed by White people against Black people/Asian people/Jewish or other religions are charged as Hate Crimes. As Robert tried to point out, state of mind is a major factor.

And clearly there are crimes committed by nonwhite people against white people that are Hate Crimes as well for the same reasons.


edit: https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/crimes-against-humanity-international-law
this might lend insight into at least some historical precedence that shows these "new fangled crimes" aren't really an invention of modern day sissies...
Whistlebritches Offline
#34 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
When you kill or maim anyone, regardless of skin color,race,religion or creed ,I think you have to have plenty of hate in your heart.Honestly I have always thought the hate crime laws are bullschit. A crime is a crime is a crime..........................
RayR Offline
#35 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,912
Agree Whistlebritches. Hate Crines are BS.

The theory is that to be a hate crime, it has to be racially motivated.
Even when it's obvious that a crime was racially motivated, it seems prosecutors sometimes say they can't find the evidence of racial hatred or maybe don't want to.

Frank wanted examples. I refer to Robert's favorite Newspaper

Asian-Americans Are Being Attacked. Why Are Hate Crime Charges So Rare?

Several recent attacks have not been charged as hate crimes, fueling protests and outrage among many Asian-Americans.

By Nicole Hong and Jonah E. Bromwich
Published March 18, 2021
Updated Oct. 26, 2021

Quote:
On a cold evening last month, a Chinese man was walking home near Manhattan’s Chinatown neighborhood when a stranger suddenly ran up behind him and plunged a knife into his back.

For many Asian-Americans, the stabbing was horrifying, but not surprising. It was widely seen as just the latest example of racially targeted violence against Asians during the pandemic.

But the perpetrator, a 23-year-old man from Yemen, had not said a word to the victim before the attack, investigators said. Prosecutors determined they lacked enough evidence to prove a racist motive. The attacker was charged with attempted murder, but not as a hate crime.

The announcement outraged Asian-American leaders in New York City. Many of them protested outside the Manhattan district attorney’s office, demanding that the stabbing be prosecuted as a hate crime. They were tired of what they saw as racist assaults being overlooked by the authorities.

“Let’s call it what it is,” said Don Lee, a community activist who spoke at the rally. “These are not random attacks. We’re asking for recognition that these crimes are happening.”

The rally reflected the tortured public conversation over how to confront a rise in reports of violence against Asian-Americans, who have felt increasingly vulnerable with each new attack. Many incidents have either not led to arrests or have not been charged as hate crimes, making it difficult to capture with reliable data the extent to which Asian-Americans are being targeted.

More...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/18/nyregion/asian-hate-crimes.html



The Case Against Hate-Crime Laws
By Michael S. Rozeff

August 18, 2006

Basics of hate crime law

Quote:
The term "hate crime" is new. The laws against hate crimes are new. Are they a good development or not?

Hate crimes seem superfluous. Why should the traditional crimes such as assault or arson be supplemented by new crimes such as hate-assault and hate-arson? The victim receives the same injuries in either case. If the damages are greater and juries know this, the remedies can be altered accordingly. Why go through the added difficulties of proving that the motivation of the crime was to injure someone because of hatred? Is anything gained beyond labeling the criminal as a person who hated?

Hate crimes carry greater penalties. Hate in and of itself becomes an additional crime when it occurs in conjunction with an ordinary crime. Arson is a crime. The new crime is Hate + Arson. If you intend arson, don’t do it because you hate the person who owns the building. Do it because you like fires or want to collect insurance money. Hatred is deemed punishable whereas liking fires or wanting to collect insurance money fraudulently are not punishable. Does this make sense? Why is hatred special? Why should the law punish hatred?

More...

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2006/08/michael-s-rozeff/the-case-against-hate-crimes-laws/






DrMaddVibe Offline
#36 Posted:
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
Whistlebritches wrote:
When you kill or maim anyone, regardless of skin color,race,religion or creed ,I think you have to have plenty of hate in your heart.Honestly I have always thought the hate crime laws are bullschit. A crime is a crime is a crime..........................



But...when you wanna put that tad bit o' English on it...that unreturnable serve with spin...BLAMMO...git ya some Hate Crimes! Why, I hear tell that HATE SPEECH is the next big thang...just ask our stuttering dolt in office...Remember for those playing with the "At Home" version that he was elected to be a "Uniter". Let that melt like butter on that filet you jus' pulled off da grill!
Whistlebritches Offline
#37 Posted:
Joined: 04-23-2006
Posts: 22,128
DrMaddVibe wrote:
But...when you wanna put that tad bit o' English on it...that unreturnable serve with spin...BLAMMO...git ya some Hate Crimes! Why, I hear tell that HATE SPEECH is the next big thang...just ask our stuttering dolt in office...Remember for those playing with the "At Home" version that he was elected to be a "Uniter". Let that melt like butter on that filet you jus' pulled off da grill!



True..........with that Johan touch.LOL
Abrignac Offline
#38 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,306
Count me on the side of hate crimes being bullchit. WRGAF if someone commits a crime because of some idealistic reason. Since damn near every crime labeled as a hate crime in of itself carries either a life sentence or death does it really matter?

Besides last I checked idealism is a form of expression. So in a way it should be protected speech. Much adieu about nothing.

No offense to my Jewish brethren, but I don’t really see the need to have prosecuted the Nazi for crimes against humanity other than to call attention to the atrocities they committed. As it were the “actual” crimes they were found guilty of warranted a death sentence. It’s not like they could be put to death for genocide, revived and put to death again for crimes against humanity.
frankj1 Offline
#39 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
Abrignac wrote:
Count me on the side of hate crimes being bullchit. WRGAF if someone commits a crime because of some idealistic reason. Since damn near every crime labeled as a hate crime in of itself carries either a life sentence or death does it really matter?

Besides last I checked idealism is a form of expression. So in a way it should be protected speech. Much adieu about nothing.

No offense to my Jewish brethren, but I don’t really see the need to have prosecuted the Nazi for crimes against humanity other than to call attention to the atrocities they committed. As it were the “actual” crimes they were found guilty of warranted a death sentence. It’s not like they could be put to death for genocide, revived and put to death again for crimes against humanity.

as for me, of course no offense taken. you know me well enough.

Anyway, I didn't take a personal position in my post that referenced the Nuremberg Trials. I was merely providing one example for rayr of how the concept of Hate Crimes is not a new liberal feel good thing.

Don't know if the data has changed over the years since I first learned it but I have long been led to believe that the vast majority of murders (and probably violent crimes) takes place between people familiar with each other...eg married couples, friends, family members...so yes, absolutely, virtually all of these crimes occur as sudden violent reactions to situations or depression/rage caused by life events or heat of the moment passion. Maybe rage?

A robbery of a random stranger gone wrong is obviously not an emotional state of mind toward the victim. Maybe panic?

Hearing voices commanding one to maim or kill...maybe mental illness?

I think you may be pretty close by saying at Nuremberg they were calling "attention to the atrocities". But those atrocities came from hatred of a defined group of humans, where the other categories do not seem to fit that definition...not of "hate", at least in my mind.

I guess I don't agree with the common belief that all murderers and violent perpetrators "hate" the specific victim.
Deep down I feel it's an especially repulsive emotion that motivates one to act out on their beliefs of other's races, religious beliefs, etc. This separates those despicable characters from the guy who "lost it" when he caught his wife cheating, or finally had it up to here with the idiot next door, or thought God told him to do it, or even needed money fast for drugs...

Despite all that, I'm really not even 98.2% convinced that we need an additional legal process for "Hate Crimes".
I'm really not sure. I'm totally open to all the opinions leaning that way above.

But, I just want to say, maybe due to personal religious history, I'm also not 98.2% sure that the guy dragging a human by a rope from the back of a pick up truck simply because of the victim's skin color doesn't deserve some kind of special acknowledgement for his actions, if only to "call attention to the atrocities" of such crimes and to keep that in front of the eyes of Society...?

rfenst Offline
#40 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,345
I got the chit beat out of me real bad by two older kids I did not even know when I was in grade school- solely because I was a "Kike." They must have used that and other slurs 10 times while holding me up and pummeling me and then kicking/stomping me while I was on the ground. Should their punishment merely have stopped at the penalty for fighting?

Neo-Nazi's spray painted the outer walls of my synagogue with swastikas and anti-Semitic threats/slurs. Should their punishment (conviction) have been solely for damage to private property with graffiti?
frankj1 Offline
#41 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
without most realizing it, there has been a slight trend toward opening "that" door in this country in recent years.
Ignoring it doesn't mean it isn't alive...and deadly.
Speyside2 Offline
#42 Posted:
Joined: 11-11-2021
Posts: 2,405
For a very long time I thought a crime was a crime plain and simple. Over time my point of view has changed. There is hate, and then there is hate. One can hate an individual and perpetrate a crime against them due to that hate. Here I see no hate crime.

When one hates a specific group and commits a violent crime against someone who is part of that group, then I believe a hate crime has been committed. To me this is obvious, yet I understand to others it is not.

Each person's opinion matters and has equal worth in this great country. If you want call me wrong, but never ever expect that your opinion is sacrosanct. What happened to Robert was assault. It also was a hate crime. I do not think I can fully understand what Robert felt, as I am not Jewish. I can though say this, I have never tolerated behavior such as that.
HockeyDad Offline
#43 Posted:
Joined: 09-20-2000
Posts: 46,156
rfenst wrote:
I got the chit beat out of me real bad by two older kids I did not even know when I was in grade school- solely because I was a "Kike." They must have used that and other slurs 10 times while holding me up and pummeling me and then kicking/stomping me while I was on the ground. Should their punishment merely have stopped at the penalty for fighting?

Neo-Nazi's spray painted the outer walls of my synagogue with swastikas and anti-Semitic threats/slurs. Should their punishment (conviction) have been solely for damage to private property with graffiti?


Punishment is an outdated concept. We should be looking at rehabilitation, education and training.
frankj1 Offline
#44 Posted:
Joined: 02-08-2007
Posts: 44,223
HockeyDad wrote:
Punishment is an outdated concept. We should be looking at rehabilitation, education and training.

so then, I should vote for Jackson?
Abrignac Offline
#45 Posted:
Joined: 02-24-2012
Posts: 17,306
rfenst wrote:
I got the chit beat out of me real bad by two older kids I did not even know when I was in grade school- solely because I was a "Kike." They must have used that and other slurs 10 times while holding me up and pummeling me and then kicking/stomping me while I was on the ground. Should their punishment merely have stopped at the penalty for fighting?

Neo-Nazi's spray painted the outer walls of my synagogue with swastikas and anti-Semitic threats/slurs. Should their punishment (conviction) have been solely for damage to private property with graffiti?


We’ve had this conversation before. I live by the mantra of “my rights begin where yours end.” So I will always believe that no one has the right to dictate how someone else should feel. If someone wants to hate someone else because of the color, creed, sexual preference or whatever so be it. That’s their right.

Would the a$$ beating have hurt any less if they called you Robert instead of a kike while pounding you? Probably not. Would the paint inside the synagogue been easier to remove if it said “dine at the y” instead of being swastikas? Doubtful.

At the end of the day the punishment should fit the crime. We shouldn’t allow emotions to arbitrarily enhance or decrease the severity of punishment because we get in the game of chasing a dog by the tail trying to meet different expectations based on some unmeasurable degree of severity.
Gene363 Offline
#46 Posted:
Joined: 01-24-2003
Posts: 30,834
Abrignac wrote:
We’ve had this conversation before. I live by the mantra of “my rights begin where yours end.” So I will always believe that no one has the right to dictate how someone else should feel. If someone wants to hate someone else because of the color, creed, sexual preference or whatever so be it. That’s their right.

Would the a$$ beating have hurt any less if they called you Robert instead of a kike while pounding you? Probably not. Would the paint inside the synagogue been easier to remove if it said “dine at the y” instead of being swastikas? Doubtful.

At the end of the day the punishment should fit the crime. We shouldn’t allow emotions to arbitrarily enhance or decrease the severity of punishment because we get in the game of chasing a dog by the tail trying to meet different expectations based on some unmeasurable degree of severity.


Agree, Instead of society facing the devil of hate in the mirror, it's easier to hide it in the courthouse.
rfenst Offline
#47 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,345
Abrignac wrote:
We’ve had this conversation before. I live by the mantra of “my rights begin where yours end.” So I will always believe that no one has the right to dictate how someone else should feel. If someone wants to hate someone else because of the color, creed, sexual preference or whatever so be it. That’s their right.

Would the a$$ beating have hurt any less if they called you Robert instead of a kike while pounding you? Probably not. Would the paint inside the synagogue been easier to remove if it said “dine at the y” instead of being swastikas? Doubtful.

At the end of the day the punishment should fit the crime. We shouldn’t allow emotions to arbitrarily enhance or decrease the severity of punishment because we get in the game of chasing a dog by the tail trying to meet different expectations based on some unmeasurable degree of severity.

Anthony, the beating and the graffiti were more than offenses to person and property. They were intended to stoke and instill life-long fear and disrupt peace and security in civil society. A chilling effect, if you will. That is a hell of a lot different than the right to hate.

Likewise, they were more for me to deal with than just physical pain that just needed a short time to heal and some graffiti on a wall that just needed to be painted over. They created concerns and fears that last forever- much, much greater than just a childhood beating on the playground or the need to paint over a concrete wall.

Are you implying we should just go back several hundred years to a limited number of common law crimes created solely by the courts and not the people via legislature? If so, that just bring us back full circle to the issue of law and societal rules and norms as they currently exist and tailored to modern reality vs. that's the way things were then and therefore must the same now. We argue about this dichotomy with respect to the Constitution all the time...

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