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Last post 4 months ago by RayR. 8 replies replies.
WSJ Opinion: Against Immunity for Trump
rfenst Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,335
Attempting to interfere with the vote counting was re-election activity, not part of his official duties.



Opinion: WSJ
The U.S. Supreme Court last week denied special counsel Jack Smith’s petition to consider Donald Trump’s immunity claims on an expedited basis. It may not matter. The lower courts are moving quickly, and Mr. Trump could still face a trial by spring.

What’s undisputed in the case is that on Jan. 6, 2021, then-President Trump sought to interfere with the counting of the electoral votes by pressing the vice president to set aside some votes for Joe Biden from states that Mr. Trump disputed. If his plan hadn’t been foiled by the courage of Mike Pence, the U.S. would have descended into an unprecedented constitutional crisis.

Mr. Trump contends that what he did was “at the heart of his official responsibilities as President,” making him immune from prosecution. The Constitution requires that the president “take care that the laws be faithfully executed,” but there is no specific provision that prohibits the current president from interfering in the election of his successor.

Since the Constitution was ratified, the American people have assumed that each president would accept defeat and leave office voluntarily—and all of them have. The Constitution’s remedy for what Mr. Trump did on Jan. 6 is impeachment, but Mr. Trump was acquitted in the Senate.

That leads to Mr. Trump’s other immunity claim: that the charges against him amount to double jeopardy in violation of the Fifth Amendment, because of his previous impeachment trial in the Senate. But Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution provides that when an official is impeached and convicted, he can still be tried criminally. That implies there is no double jeopardy—an impeachment trial is a distinct process that doesn’t preclude criminal prosecution. In the late 1980s, Judge Alcee Hastings was impeached and convicted of bribery after being acquitted in a criminal trial.

The more difficult question is whether Mr. Trump was acting legally, within the generous scope of his office, when he tried to overturn the 2020 election. In Blassingame v. Trump, the former president was sued in a private action by members of the Capitol Police injured in the Jan. 6 riot. The U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia concluded that Mr. Trump wasn’t acting “within the outer perimeter” of his duties, so he could be liable for injuries caused by his actions.

The D.C. Circuit affirmed the trial court’s decision that on Jan. 6, 2021, Mr. Trump was engaged in re-election activities, not presidential duties: “When a sitting President running for re-election speaks in a campaign ad or in accepting his political party’s nomination at the party convention, he typically speaks on matters of public concern. Yet he does so in an unofficial, private capacity as office-seeker, not an official capacity as office-holder. And actions taken in an unofficial, private capacity cannot qualify for official-act immunity.”

The Supreme Court could ultimately hold otherwise, but the case is strong that Mr. Trump should be denied immunity. There can hardly be a more serious crime for a president than to use the power of his office corruptly to prevent his successor from becoming president through a valid election.



Mr. Wallison is a senior fellow emeritus at the American Enterprise Institute. He served as general counsel of the Treasury and White House counsel in the Reagan administration.
rfenst Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,335
How Trump critics are using the 14th Amendment to try to kick him off ballots


WAPO

Courts and election officials around the country are considering challenges to former president Donald Trump’s ability to run for office again. In a historic decision on Dec. 19, the Colorado Supreme Court barred Trump from running in the state’s March 5 presidential primary after determining that he had engaged in insurrection on Jan. 6, 2021. Here’s a look at how the legal cases are playing out across the country.

What’s the legal argument for keeping Trump off the ballot under the 14th Amendment?
The 14th Amendment, ratified in 1868, includes a provision meant to keep those who sided with the Confederacy during the Civil War from serving in office. Specifically, Section 3 states if someone took an oath to support the Constitution and then participated in an insurrection, he or she cannot hold certain offices.

Trump’s opponents have seized on that part of the Constitution with lawsuits that contend he cannot run again because of his efforts to overturn the 2020 election and his role in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.

Where are the cases happening?
The 4-3 ruling from the Colorado Supreme Court to bar Trump from the state’s primary ballot marked the first time a court kept a presidential candidate off the ballot under an 1868 provision of the Constitution that prevents insurrectionists from holding office.

The Colorado Republican Party has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to review the decision, but it will be up to the justices to decide whether to take the case. Scholars have said only the nation’s high court can settle the issue of whether the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol constituted an insurrection and whether Trump is banned from running. Maine’s secretary of state on Wednesday found Trump was ineligible for that state’s ballot. Trump can appeal the decision to state court.

In separate cases, the top courts in Minnesota and Michigan declined to remove Trump’s name from the primary ballot in those states. Meanwhile, a Texas tax consultant has gotten no traction with a string of lawsuits he has filed on the issue.

Who is involved?
The legal theory that Trump cannot run is backed by an unusual mix of conservatives and liberals. Voters are bringing lawsuits with the assistance of watchdog groups like Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington and Free Speech for People.

In most cases, the suits are being filed against election officials because they are the ones responsible for deciding who appears on ballots. Election officials in many cases have tried to stay out of the fray and asked courts to decide the matter without taking a stance on whether Trump can run. Trump and branches of the Republican Party have intervened in some of the cases.

What is the timeline?
The lawsuits must move quickly because election season is approaching, with Iowa’s caucuses scheduled for Jan. 15. Many courts may rule after then, but the cases become more politically complicated as more caucuses and primaries are held through the spring. The Republican National Convention begins July 15, and all sides hope to have the issue resolved well before then.

What happens after the initial rulings?
Some challenges were filed with election officials, some with state trial courts and some with state supreme courts. Rulings by state supreme courts can be appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court. The U.S. Supreme Court can take cases if it wants but is not required to do so.

Will the U.S. Supreme Court get involved?
The Colorado Republican Party appealed the Colorado Supreme Court’s decision to the U.S. Supreme Court, and Trump has predicted that the high court would toss the state court’s ruling. Three of the nine U.S. Supreme Court justices were appointed by Trump, and the court has a 6-3 conservative majority.

Has this issue come up before?
Section 3 has gotten little consideration since the era just after the Civil War — until recently.

Last year, Section 3 lawsuits against Reps. Madison Cawthorn (R-N.C.) and Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) failed to keep them off the ballot. (Cawthorn went on to lose his primary; Greene continues to serve in Congress.)

But a judge in New Mexico last year removed a county commissioner from office after the official was found guilty of a misdemeanor for trespassing on the Capitol grounds on Jan. 6. The state judge determined Couy Griffin, an Otero County commissioner and the founder of Cowboys for Trump could no longer serve in his position as a county official because he had violated Section 3. It was the first such ruling since 1869, according to those who brought the lawsuit.

What are the arguments against Trump?
Courts will be scrutinizing the words and history of Section 3, which in full states: “No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.”

To kick Trump off the ballot, those bringing the lawsuits need to prove Trump meets every aspect of the section. That gives Trump and his backers many arguments against the legal theory. Some of them are below.

Section 3 prevents some people from holding office, but does it prevent them from running?
Section 3 does not say anything about running for office, and Trump’s supporters argue election officials and judges can’t prevent him from getting his name on the ballot. If he wins, it will be up to Congress to confirm he can serve, they say.

Does Section 3 apply to the presidency?
Section 3 says it applies to senators, representatives, presidential electors, state offices and federal offices “under the United States” — the last one being the only one that possibly applies to the presidency. Trump’s backers argue those offices are for military officers and postmasters, not presidents. Those bringing the lawsuits say the presidency is clearly an office under the United States.

Did Jan. 6 amount to an insurrection?
Trump’s opponents say Trump cannot serve in office because he fostered an insurrection, failed to put it down quickly and cheered on the Capitol rioters. Trump’s backers say the attack on the Capitol was not an insurrection, noting he has not been criminally charged with insurrection and was acquitted by the Senate after he was impeached by the House for inciting an insurrection. They argue that even if it was an insurrection, it was not one Trump “engaged” in because he wasn’t at the Capitol at the time.

Should Congress decide the issue instead of judges?
Trump’s supporters say Congress is the body that should determine who is fit to be president, not judges. They note Section 3 gives Congress the ability, with a two-thirds vote, to find an insurrectionist eligible for the presidency. Courts can’t block Trump from running because Congress could vote in the future to stipulate that he can serve, they argue.

Can Section 3 be applied on its own?
Trump’s supporters say Section 3 is not “self-executing,” meaning it cannot be used unless there is a federal law implementing it that spells out how and when it is applies. There is no such law, so there is no way to deploy the section, they argue.

Trump’s critics say Section 3 is clear and can be used, either on its own terms or through state laws that give election officials and courts the power to determine who can be on a ballot.
RiverRatRuss Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 09-02-2022
Posts: 1,035
I'm waiting on the US Supreme Court Rulings... for the life of me, I was thinking all 50 states would have to run this issue through their states before a Ruling from the Top could proceed... Mental Block I Guess!!! d'oh!
rfenst Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 06-23-2007
Posts: 39,335
RiverRatRuss wrote:
I'm waiting on the US Supreme Court Rulings... for the life of me, I was thinking all 50 states would have to run this issue through their states before a Ruling from the Top could proceed... Mental Block I Guess!!! d'oh!

No. There is no such requirement.
All that is necessary here is a single ruling on a federal law that is appealed.
They punted once. Will they again?
RiverRatRuss Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 09-02-2022
Posts: 1,035
rfenst wrote:
No. There is no such requirement.
All that is necessary here is a single ruling on a federal law that is appealed.
They punted once. Will they again?


I don't know? The Colorado Courts already put into Motion the Domino Effect? I think the State of Maine was a second in line to follow suit? Thus my thoughts of each state would have to weigh in before the matter reaching the Supreme Courts. Hell I'm still dealing with my local leaders on Ethics Violations over the years.. In Which tonight is our community council meeting and once again I'm going on Record to more recent violations by a Council Alderman over not acquiring a permit to repair his damaged wall and also building a retainer wall on another person's Parcel. whether he got permission or not from the owner. it clearly states in the zoning books you cannot do so. meanwhile 36 months of Discoveries are headed to our State Police for further review and possible action(s)?? So Sue Me!!! That is what our Mayor told the clerk last month to see if he could for bringing to light his irresponsibility's as a community leader.
https://youtu.be/qsqxyhlAcUI Herfing
RayR Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,893
I heard Trump is the reincarnation of Jefferson Davis. fog
RobertHively Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 01-14-2015
Posts: 1,848

Colorado Bans Trump From Running Over Concerns Usual Election Rigging System Could Fail

DENVER, CO — Facing critics over their 4-3 decision to remove Trump from the presidential ballot in 2024, Colorado's Supreme Court insisted it was a necessary step due to concerns the usual election rigging system could fail.

"I know we have all the normal rigging techniques available to us, but we're worried that Trump's lead could grow so much that those efforts will fail to protect our democracy as they did in 2020," said Justice Richard Gabriel. "Rest assured, we will not rest until we save democracy by making it completely illegal to vote for Trump. You're welcome, America!"

Pollsters confirmed that even with classic rigging measures like hackable voting machines, unmonitored drop-boxes, illegal immigrants, ballot harvesting, and universal mail-in voting, it may still not be enough to stop Trump from being reelected. Experts are urging unelected Judges to put additional measures in place.

At publishing time, Trump had responded by vowing to build a wall around Denver.
RayR Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 07-20-2020
Posts: 8,893
^ That was a pretty funny Babylon Bee piece.
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