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SPACE SHUTTLE
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RICKAMAVEN Offline
#1 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 1:48 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
this is a little long, but sadly, worth the read.

August 25, 2002

Office of the President of the United States
Mr. George W. Bush
Subject: Executive Order for a Moratorium on Space Shuttle Flight
Mr. President,
I am a recently retired NASA aerospace engineer and it is my duty to inform you that our space
shuttle astronauts are in eminent danger. Your intervention is required to prevent another
catastrophic space shuttle accident. NASA management and the Aerospace Safety Advisory
Panel have failed to respond to the growing warning signs of another shuttle accident. Since 1999
the launch system has experienced the following potential disastrous occurrences:
July 1999 - Space Shuttle Columbia delayed by hydrogen leak.
December 1999 - Space Shuttle Discovery was grounded with damaged wiring, contaminated
engine, dented fuel line, and paper work errors.
January 2000 - Space Shuttle Endeavor is delayed because of wiring and computer failures.
March 2000 - Space Shuttle Atlantis main engine must be replaced because of paperwork errors.
August 2000 - Inspection of Space Shuttle Columbia reveals 3,500 defects in wiring. Wiring
defects plague entire fleet.
October 2000 - The 100th flight of the space shuttle was delayed because of a misplaced safety
pin and concerns with the external tank.
April 2001 - NASA failed to keep adequate watch on safety operations of a major contractor.
July 2002 - The inspector general reports that space shuttle safety program not properly
managed.
April 2002 - Hydrogen leak forces scrub of the Atlantis flight.
August 2002 - Shuttle launch system grounded after fuel line cracks are discovered in all the fleet!
Mr. President, as you are painfully aware NASA management has been lacking for a number of
years. Unfortunately, your new NASA Administrator has failed to recognize the eminent space
shuttle danger and has accepted the consul of the pre-existing NASA shuttle management. These
managers still pursue a management philosophy that has stagnated the safety upgrades efforts
and perpetuates the staggering launch costs.
The space shuttle or any space transportation vehicle without crew escape modules will never be
safe to transport humans. To incorporate crew escape modules in the space shuttle requires that
the piloting function be removed from the vehicle. Unfortunately, the background of the shuttle
management is that of former flight controllers and astronauts. They have been trained to never
trust automated flight control systems. Therefore, they are adamantly opposed to automation of
the space shuttle. Efforts by NASA engineers and contractors to automate the shuttles are met
with stern rebukes and reprimands in some cases.
Mr. President, to prevent another shuttle disaster it is requested that an Executive Order be
issued that places a moratorium on space shuttle operations. This moratorium must limit shuttle
missions to flight crews that do not exceed four members. The moratorium must remain in effect
until crew escape modules can be incorporated.
This moratorium will serve as a catalyst to kick-start the resisting NASA management into action.
The lives of our astronauts and the future of our space program must not be ignored. The warning
from the Thiokol engineer was ignored and the Challenger exploded. The terrorist training warning
from FBI agents was ignored and we had the 9-11 disaster. When the next shuttle explodes...and
Murphy’s Law says it will, we can exclaim with pride a loud "YES!" as the crew escape module
carries our astronauts to safety... or if this moratorium is ignored...we can watch in horror and
shame as the astronauts face certain death.
Don A. Nelson
Retired NASA Aerospace Engineer

Reply from the President's OSTP: "I do not think that it is appropriate for the President to issue a
moratorium on Space Shuttle launches at this time" Dec. 4 2002.

Comment: Dec. 12, 2002 another Shuttle propellant leak found!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#2 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 4:28 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
You're not that nieve enough to belive that the President answers ALL of his email on his own are you? It's screened 3-4 times before a message can even get close to him. FoxNews reported on this last night, and this message was referred to the Science Adviser.

http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77414,00.html

IF you watched, you'd be better informed!
DrMaddVibe Offline
#3 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 4:36 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
Don't politicize this incident. These brave astronauts knew the dangers and took the risks. NASA would NOT send any of it's "family" into harm's way for some political endeavor.

To look back in hindsight on this tragedy is a mistake. NASA has proved time and time again that it will correct any defect to it's missions. Some of the brightest minds work day in and day out analyzing risks,data, and structural designs. Many have died so we can explore space, and it would be a gross mistake to say that these will be the last in that cause.

Most of them are service members and know that they're "general issue". The advances that they're researching impacts our daily lives, and will continue to do so. After this latest tragedy, I can only hope that they restrict flight into space for officers only and do away with any civilians. We were lulled by the shuttle's sucesses that it was as safe as flying to Chicago or LA, but we know now that it's not the case.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#4 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 5:04 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
Those that don't know the oath, here's what they swear.

For Officers...


The Military Oath of Office

I (FULL NAME)
All that signifies my individuality. A personal reference to no one else, which implies that I accept full responsibilityfor my actions.

HAVING BEEN APPOINTED
An historical event signifying the accomplishment of
some requisite evaluation and/or training. An act conferred by a ruling authority.

A CADET (2Lt/Regular Officer/Permanent Professor . . .)
A position of esteem, respect, privilege, and reward that carries with it professional responsibility.

IN THE UNITED STATES AIR FORCE
A branch of our nation’s military that has a unique role to play in military operations and defense of American values and interests.

DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR
An oath to be taken seriously. One to which I offer my
full allegiance.

THAT I WILL
An active call. One that demands my energy, my time,
and if necessary, my life.

SUPPORT AND DEFEND
A directed call. My activity is to be both offensive and defensive.

THE CONSTITUTION
Not the parchment, but the principles—the ideal of liberty for all men and women.

OF THE UNITED STATES
It isn’t just anybody’s idea. It is ours! Tried by fire and found to be genuine, lasting, and valuable.

AGAINST ALL ENEMIES
There is inherent risk involved in my work. It is a call to arms and a call to sacrifice. The stakes are high. It is life we are supporting and defending and it is life that it may cost—-whether supremely or on a moment-by-moment routine basis.

FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC
No matter the foe we are ready, even if he arises among us.

THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE TO THE SAME
My complete loyalty—my heart—is tied up in this commitment.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#5 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 5:05 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
For Enlisted Soldiers...

I, {insert name here}, do solemnly swear, or affirm, that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter.

So help me God
RDC Offline
#6 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 5:32 AM EST
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
Let me guess, if this tragedy had happened while Clinton or some other Demoncrat was in office the article would have read... I, President _______ am acutley aware of the underfunding to NASA and have worked very hard to increase funding for our brave men and women, but those Republicans keep the filibusters going and stop it at every chance they get.

Gimme a break.
DrMaddVibe Offline
#7 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 7:13 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
It cuts BOTH ways RDC. That slant doesn't hold water!
Tobasco Offline
#8 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 7:44 AM EST
Joined: 02-08-2003
Posts: 2,809
RDC, what filibusters are you speaking of. I'm pretty interested in knowing where you heard about those, or did you just make that up, as I suspect.

Mag
RDC Offline
#9 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 7:47 AM EST
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
That is why I said "if"
Charlie Offline
#10 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 7:56 AM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Way to go Rick, I guess if the Leaning Tower or Great Pyramids fell today, you would find some way to push the blame towards GWB!

Every bad thing that happens is not the fault of the President!

Charlie
DrMaddVibe Offline
#11 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 8:20 AM EST
Joined: 10-21-2000
Posts: 55,489
When any soldier takes the oath they're not doing it for a political party or President. IF isn't anywhere in the oath. 99% of our astronauts are soldiers. They know what they're doing and trust the system.

While I think it's admirable that someone is "whistle-blowing" or trying to bring awareness to a situation there is a right way and a wrong way. Following the chain of command is what this individual should've done.
JonR Offline
#12 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 8:35 AM EST
Joined: 02-19-2002
Posts: 9,740
" The Buck Stops Here " ... President Harry Truman
CulleyJC52 Offline
#13 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 2:17 PM EST
Joined: 09-25-2002
Posts: 369
Maybe this needs to be forwarded to Clinton, it was his administration that started cutting NASA allocations, Again Rick think you need to do little more research before making you political forum. I also agree with the good Dr. on this one, don't need to drag this tragedy through the mud, even though it was the first thing the democrats did after the tragedy they were all lined up on Sunday Morning programming, what idiots.
Charlie Offline
#14 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 2:38 PM EST
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
If those 7 Astronauts could help give the Democrats a bump in the polls---watch out they would be all over it pointing blame everywhere.........uh oh, they are doing that aren't they!

Charlie
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#15 Posted: Tue, Feb 4 2003, 6:18 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
i remember after the 9/11 tragedy, pictures of george in air force one, contemplating his navel, being distributed as propaganda by the republicans.
tailgater Offline
#16 Posted: Wed, Feb 5 2003, 3:36 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
What you call "propaganda" was an attempt to show the nation that the government DID care, and their humanity was comforting in a time when we all needed it.
Your letter above is nothing more than an attempt to discredit the administration in a time that should be used for grieving. The letter was written by a disgruntled former employee who has serious issues with himself. It's evident on his website.
There is undeniably great risk in space travel. The astronauts knew that and went anyway. For that, they are hero's.
You're attempt to make them look like victims belittle's their efforts and shows your true bitterness towards athority. Grasping at straws is not very becoming.
tailgater Offline
#17 Posted: Wed, Feb 5 2003, 3:39 AM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
beware of excessive typos and misspelled words in the previous post...
jamesconnors Offline
#18 Posted: Wed, Feb 5 2003, 6:23 PM EST
Joined: 11-02-2002
Posts: 378
guys dont you know already that rick is a bleeding heart liberal. the same one that BLAMES G.W.B. that he knew about the 9/11 attacks...of course the same liberal would speculate the the president knew the challenger was doomed from the begining but let it happen anyway. rick for a supposed "wise" old man really a "confused" old man.
usahog Offline
#19 Posted: Wed, Feb 5 2003, 6:58 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Rick you ain't got some of these Parts for sale on EBAY do ya??? if you do Uncle Sam's gunna be at your door in the AM... see they Belong to the US Military and thats a Federal Crime to try and sell them....
Say go to Hell O to John Walker while your in there will ya!!!

Things a guy will do for a Cigar nowadays Sheeeesh!!!

Hog
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#20 Posted: Wed, Feb 5 2003, 7:29 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
tailgater
propaganda is propaganda. how does a posed, pensive george, show that the government cares?

usahog
what in the world are you talking about?

jamesconnors
you wouldn't know a "bleeding heart liberal" if one bit you on the neck.


a theme runs through all of these last posts. you have in common, the ability to conclude or make up something about me and my observations, then attack me and my ideas, that you have invented.

mass hysteria, only if you form a mob, like "the ox-bow incident"

mass misdirection, possibly you're all following the same shell with the pea under it.
it ain't under that shell.

you all listen to limbaugh and watch the o'rielly factor (the new joe pyne show) and watch fox news because you want "fair and balanced" news.


if you would read and digest websites oppossed to your viewpoint (that's not plural) you might be better able to defend your own view (again not plural).
tailgater Offline
#21 Posted: Wed, Feb 5 2003, 7:59 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Rick,
you see the world and look for the evil in it.
I see the world and know that most people are good.
When I applaud our leaders, it is out of pride and/or respect. When I challenge them, it is out of concern.
Negative speculation is the sign of bitterness, and you have cornered the market.
Don't blame Fox or Limbaugh. It is within yourself.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#22 Posted: Thu, Feb 6 2003, 3:32 AM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
tailgater

as a matter of fact i see the world as a pretty nice place and most people as pretty nice people. you have as i mentioned others have done before, attributed to me "you see the world and look for the evil in it" and then criticize me for your own opinion of me.

logic doesn't work that way. you have to quote some of the things i have posted that you disagree with and explain why, assuming you care too.

look at usahogs chain of thinking. i don't agree with rick, therefore i don't like him personally, therefore he is selling spacecraft parts on ebay, therefore he should go to jail and say hello to john walker.

i'm hoping you can put aside you personal feeling about me or any posts i make that you don't agree with, and follow the logic.


the more interesting part is that some of the guys that really HATE the stuff i post, have traded with me and we both make the trades with the idea of being more then fair with the other. the posts really don't represent us as people. look how nice i was treated at the last herf even by people that disagree with me with passion. off stage and out of this spotlight, we just sit and smoke and enjoy each other's company.

what makes the boards so helpful to everyone, is the ability to speak, albeit, with a keyboard and not get interrupted in the middle of a sentence or a thought.
in normal face to face banter, some people never get heard, and others like me never listen, but simply wait for whoever is talking to finish so i can continue with my diatribe.

besides who uses words like attributed, albeit, or diatribe in conversation.

the sun is just coming up from the east. time to get back in my coffin.
usahog Offline
#23 Posted: Thu, Feb 6 2003, 11:34 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
See Rick you did understand what I was Saying... and where did I say I did not like you??? in my previous post above I was using one of your Tactics... if you can not Dazzle them with Briliance... Baffle them with Bull S^*T.... and for awhile there it worked...

LMAO!!!!!

Hog
usahog Offline
#24 Posted: Thu, Feb 6 2003, 11:41 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
and I seen on the News that they Picked up the ones who were swiping the parts of the Shuttle... can you believe they were Military Members??? must be because of that pay raise Cindy Williams B!T*Hed about.... I knew the Russians were selling all there military Items off on Ebay... but to think even US Military members were following suit... thats apalding....
there probably Guilty of shipping Medical Records off to different parts of the world also??? LMAO!!!!

Hog
tailgater Offline
#25 Posted: Thu, Feb 6 2003, 6:11 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
Rick,
Don't be so thin skinned.
I never criticized you based on my opinion of you (whatever that means). In fact, I did not give my opinion of you.
I applaud your ability to spark debate. But when you bash our President ad nausium during trying times you should expect a retort.
Deal with it.
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