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Last post 21 years ago by cwilhelmi. 22 replies replies.
US to punish German 'treachery'
smithbw Offline
#1 Posted:
Joined: 09-01-2001
Posts: 2,444
Peter Beaumont, David Roseand Paul Beaver
Sunday February 16, 2003
The Observer

America is to punish Germany for leading international opposition to a war against Iraq. The US will withdraw all its troops and bases from there and end military and industrial co-operation between the two countries - moves that could cost the Germans billions of euros.
The plan - discussed by Pentagon officials and military chiefs last week on the orders of Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld - is designed 'to harm' the German economy to make an example of the country for what US hawks see as Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's 'treachery'.

The hawks believe that making an example of Germany will force other countries heavily dependent on US trade to think twice about standing up to America in future.

This follows weeks of increasingly angry exchanges between Rumsfeld and Germany, in which at one point he taunted Germany and France for being an irrelevant part of 'old Europe'.

Now Rumsfeld has decided to go further by unilaterally imposing the Pentagon's sanctions on a country already in the throes of economic problems.

'We are doing this for one reason only: to harm the German economy,' one source told The Observer last week.

'Our troops contribute many millions of dollars. Why should we continue to support a country which has treated Nato and the protection we provided for decades with such incredible contempt?'

Another Pentagon source said: 'The aim is to hit German trade and commerce. It is not just about taking out the troops and equipment; it is also about cancelling commercial contracts and defence-related arrangements.'

The Pentagon plan - and the language expressed by officials close to Rumsfeld - has horrified State Department officials, who believe that bullying other countries to follow the US line will further exacerbate anti-Americanism and alienate those European countries that might support a United Nations resolution authorising a war.

German industry earns billions of euros every year from supporting the US Army Europe which, although reduced from its Cold War heights, still totals 42,000 troops and 785 tanks - almost three times as many as the British Army owns. Many of these soldiers and their fighting equipment, including Apache helicopters, have already been sent to the Gulf.

German industry is heavily involved in supporting the US presence. Among the defence companies which stand to lose out are missile-maker Diehl, aerospace and defence giant EADS Deutschland, armaments maker Rheinmetall and vehicle maker Krauss-Maffei Wegmann.

There is also a US Air Force contingent of about 15,000 service people with bases at Bitburg, Frankfurt-am-Main and neighbouring Ramstein, where the commander doubles as part of the Nato command. This force includes nearly 60 F-16 fighter-bombers and a squadron of A-10 tank-buster aircraft.

Rumsfeld and his staff have made no attempt to hide their fury at Schröder's 'treachery and ineptitude' over Iraq. Last week Schröder leaked to reporters a Franco-German plan for avoiding war by increasing the number of UN weapons inspectors before informing his American counterparts.

'After this, Germany is finished as a serious power,' one of the sources added. 'This is simply not the way to conduct diplomacy at a moment of international crisis.' One diplomatic source said Rumsfeld was 'furious at Germany. He is a bruiser and it looks as though he means to do it'.

Under these plans, the US would move its troops in Europe eastwards to countries such as Poland, the Czech Republic and the Baltic states, all of which have strongly supported America's line against Saddam Hussein. It is likely that the overall size of the deployment would be reduced, as the US military changes its priorities for a long-term and disparate engagement with international terrorism.

Although Rumsfeld had already been considering a redeployment of US troops around the world after a war in Iraq to save money and respond to new threats, the plans now under consideration go far beyond what had been discussed.

It is likely that future years will see a sharp increase in the proportion of special forces troops able to deploy rapidly across the globe.

Germany would suffer considerable financial loss if US forces were withdrawn from the country. The bases provide jobs for local people as everything from administrators to cleaners, and are huge customers for dairy products and bread.

Special report
Germany
Charlie Offline
#2 Posted:
Joined: 06-16-2002
Posts: 39,751
Payback is a bitch!

Charlie
divnmyk Offline
#3 Posted:
Joined: 06-07-2001
Posts: 461
So, when will you be pulling out Billy?
And what will you do with all of those spoils you have secured?
;-)

M
usahog Offline
#4 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Good


Hog
Spiny Norman Offline
#5 Posted:
Joined: 09-04-2002
Posts: 899
It's a two way street.


http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/politics/german_us/facts.html
RDC Offline
#6 Posted:
Joined: 01-21-2000
Posts: 5,874
USA
USA
USA
USA...
smithbw Offline
#7 Posted:
Joined: 09-01-2001
Posts: 2,444
John,

I hope that we will stay a while longer here in Deutchland (Germany). I am really happy here. If (or when) it happens we are prepared to go back to the land that I love - USA. Of course, I will be shipping only the legal cigars back - Did I hear someone say European Herf?

=)

Regards,


B
smithbw Offline
#8 Posted:
Joined: 09-01-2001
Posts: 2,444
Oops Sorry Mike...

=)
THL Offline
#9 Posted:
Joined: 10-22-2002
Posts: 3,044
Billy, as much as I'd love to see us pull out of Germany, it ain't gonna happen. I have no inside info. If the report is true, the threat is a bluff. It's probably the invention of some press agent or journalist.
tarheel4lyf Offline
#10 Posted:
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
Que Lastima
xrundog Offline
#11 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
So we are gonna take our ball and go home. If we don't need the bases and troops there than by all means save a buck. That article really makes Rumsfeld appear capricious and meanspirited. Time to burn some bridges I guess. Maybe the European market isn't very important to our international trade. I sure hope it isn't. I wonder what impact this will have on NATO?
usahog Offline
#12 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
what Impact has France, Germany, Russia and the others already made on NATO??? and the UN for that matter....
as the artical reads these bases can be disiminated to other Allied Country's such as Poland... and allot of the Job markets will come back into the USA along with the Money's spent in country's who don't want to support the US as shown in this time with UN and the event of War with Iraq....

I think its about time we had some people in Office who stands up to the BS... Time to call in the Markers Boy's and Girl's!!!!!!!

Look at what happened when Panama wanted us out and we Abliged them...and the bases in the Philipeans (sp)

Before long that Bite there trying to inlfict will get infected... On themselves!!!!

Hog
tailgater Offline
#13 Posted:
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
This report is a hoax.
But I wish we would consider some variation of the above on a smaller scale. They're biting the hand that feeds them, so it would be Germany that is burning bridges, not us.
And France simply sucks.
eleltea Offline
#14 Posted:
Joined: 03-03-2002
Posts: 4,562
Pulling back troops from around the world seems like such a good idea to me that it wouldn't matter if it were done for spite.
xrundog Offline
#15 Posted:
Joined: 01-17-2002
Posts: 2,212
I'm glad it's a hoax. The idea doesn't bother me as much as the way it was presented.
Spiny Norman Offline
#16 Posted:
Joined: 09-04-2002
Posts: 899
I'm not so sure it is a hoax.
The article originated at a legitimate news source in the UK http://www.guardian.co.uk/0,6961,,00.html , (although their editorial stance is clearly against the war. This is true of most of the UK press at this time.) I'm not ready to write this one off just yet. Has anything come out of the Bush admin refuting the story?
usahog Offline
#17 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
I'll Surf and see!!!!! LoL


Hog
tarheel4lyf Offline
#18 Posted:
Joined: 09-23-2002
Posts: 2,543
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/2/21/101935.shtml
usahog Offline
#19 Posted:
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Thanks Tar... Also did you see the link for France being in worse shape then Germany on there?? I'll post it LMAO!!!!
I'm going to sign up for 4 months publications... and I didn't even have to leave my Chair to Protest LMAO!!!!!

Hog
Homebrew Offline
#20 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
It is my opinion that the American people could do more than our government can, against Germany. If you drive a BMW, sell it, refuse to buy another. Buy a caddy.
Just a thought
Homebrew
Homebrew Offline
#21 Posted:
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
oh yeah, buy A Harley instead of a beemer as well.
Didn't want to leave out the bikers.
1957 Indian Chief myself.
Homebrew
Santyth Offline
#22 Posted:
Joined: 11-17-2002
Posts: 107
Yes, it looks like a hoax to drum up more anti-american feelings in Europe.

It also fails to mention that that French and German "plan for avoiding war" was rejected by Iraq.
cwilhelmi Offline
#23 Posted:
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
I wonder who would want to buy the weapons that we currently buy from Germany, and who could take advantage of the defense companies that we are taking our business away from??

Capricious and meanspirited is right xrundog, a foreign policy nightmare is another good description... Actions like this solidify our reputation as a worldwide bully who will rebuke our help if countries don't always agree with us.
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