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That sucks!

I wanted to see Tyson get that lame looking tattoo all bloodied up! Oh well, maybe he will fight Evander again and get his ass flattened for good!!!

By the way Tar, what happened in the Tonya Harding fight? Wasnt it on the same card?

Mag

I watched the prelims but didn't see any Harding fight...

I heard it was canceled, but don't quote me on it...

No promises, but a friend of mine is a huge boxing fan. I'll check with him and get back to you if I find anything.

the thing is with tyson...hes not a boxer...hes a street brawler. he cant box. thats why lewis beat his ass and evander beat his ass...he had to bite his ear in aggrevation because he couldnt hit him. tyson is washed up and he is a punk that deserves his ass beat bad!

I do not follow Tyson, and do not give one happy damn about the criminal, sex offender that the American public keeps dumping millions on to support his follies!

Charlie

Rick, George Foreman in his prime would have flattened Tyson. Half of Tysons success was due to the fear put into his apponents. Foreman feared nobody, punched harder than Tyson and fought when the heavyweight division was the most talented Div in boxing.

His loss to Ali was because of Ali's boxing skills, and elusiveness. Tyson never had those skills. Tyson didnt have to deal with guys like, Liston, Louis, Ali, Fraiser, Quary, Norton, Holmes, Cooney, and others that escape me now.

For pure punching power, I believe Cooney was stronger too. He lacked in other skills though.

That was when heavyweight boxing was in its prime. When there werent so many Titles around but the WBA & WBC.

Tyson can punch very, very well. But cant take an equally powerful punch when on the recieving end.

Mag

PS I think I have Highlites of the fight you want. Its on a tape I have called "A documented history of the heavywieghts". You may be able to order it through a video store.

I beg to differ, Mag and others, on the skills question (though these kind of questions are even less resolvable than our politcal debates!). When he was young, Tyson mastered the peek-a-boo style, a great defensive as well as offensive technique. No one could get to him. In his younger days, Tyson would have flattened Lewis early.

When young, and even now, Tyson has a speed in punches that very few, if any, can master. Could he beat Ali in Ali's prime? Foreman in his prime? Not sure. They'd be great fights, though, and I'd pay to see them...but wouldn't place a bet.

I also think Tyson has a better chin than he's given credit for.

Tyson is clearly a deeply troubled person. Watch an interview with him. It is both frightening (he has such pent up violence) and sad (he has no sense of self-worth, almost suicidal sounding). I hope he gets his head straight. He has a long life to live.

I also want to object to Cooney being on that prestigious list! No! He was palookaville all the way! Gerry the Punching Bag!

Ah, sports debate. There are few that are as eternally unresolveable.

John

Something has to be said about a record of 50 - 4 with 43 KO's.

John

I agree that Tyson had very good defensive skills earlier in his career. The bobbing & weaving of his head reminds me of Smokin Joe Fraiser's constant head movement.

We all know what Foreman did to Fraiser! Remember the uppercut Foreman hit Fraiser with, that had lifted Fraiser off the canvas! Hehe! Then shortly after KO!

I would love to have seen a Tyson/Foreman match-up with both in their prime!

As far as what you say about Cooney on the list. He was a Great puncher! He at the time, had more body shot KO's than any other heavyweight in recent history! He never was champ, but was a very dangerous fighter.

Larry Holmes had the perfect style to beat Cooney. Until then he looked real good! He was the only good white heavyweight at the time. He was only a punching bag in that fight. Do you remember what Cooney did to Ken Norton? He almost knocked him into the next century! Hehe!

Well, its all speculation, but its fun to talk about. We can talk about boxing anytime!

I have a very good collection of Boxing memorabilia & autographs. I've been to many, many live boxing matches. One of the best fights I went to in person was the Boom Boom Mancini vs Alexis Arguello fight! That was awesome!!

My dad took me & my Bro to boxing matches when we were kids. I've seen Jerry Quary live as a kid about 10 yrs old.

John Maddan is a big boxing fan. Saw him at a title fight. My wife & I sat a few seats over from him at the Civic Auditorium in San Jose. He's a cool guy! I got his autograph there.

I gotta stop, I could ramble on and on about boxing!

Hog, you are right about Tyson. At this time he is a joke, and bad for boxing. Did you hear that there is talk of a reality show, where the winner fights Mike Tyson? Proof he is crazy. His acquiring a tattoo just before a fight, also shows his lack of seriousness about it any more.

Mag

Pound for pound I think Tyson(in his prime!)could easily whip Ali's ass(in his prime)! I don't recall ever seeing Ali punch a man so hard that it lifted both of feet off the ground. When Tyson would weave with both hands up to his jaw...just hit the floor, because that's where everyone ended up!

Once Tyson got married to that kook and her mother, he wasn't the same. The "charge" of rape against him was a trumped up accusation in order to get a quick payday! She thought she'd get an out of court settlement, and when it went all the way to trial Tyson got sentenced. I'm not saying he's a brute or mentally imbalanced, but in the ring...he was the best I'll ever see(in his prime!)!

Someone else mentioned some of the best fighters that Ali had to go through, and it was a VERY impressive list. George Foreman was quoted by Ali as having the hardest punch he ever had hit him. Michael and Leon Spinks were missing from the list, as well as Earnie Shavers. Ali wasn't afraid to defend his belt, and it showed. Something that's lacking today!

For the kind of money they're doling out to stand in a ring with Tyson...I'd get in there! I'm sure I could at least run around the ring for a minute! Hell, facing Tyson I'd probably just kick him in the nuts and then beat his ass silly! Imagine the SI cover!

One other thing about the earlier years.

They used 8oz gloves and went 15 rounds. Since the Du Ku Kim fight, with boom boom knocking Kim out, and Kim dying later, fights started getting stopped earlier, and it went to 12 rnds in the WBC, and a little later the WBA.

Boxing was more brutal in the old days. The fighters we are comparing dont have equal equipment. The chins of the old day fighters had to be better to survive due to the much lighter gloves.

This also changes Tysons power too. He would have been more devastating with 8oz gloves. He also could be in chin trouble himself, getting hit with less padding.

Hard to say for sure, but very interesting.

Mag

There was another. Rocky Marciano.

1984 Olympic Boxing...

Mike Tyson = http://search.biography.com/print_record.pl?id=6786

Evander Holifield = http://search.biography.com/print_record.pl?id=24512

his is short and does not talk about the 84 Olympics at all... he through a Punch at the Bell and was Disqualified from the Match and lost his chance at the Gold.. the Punch he through Knocked his Apponent Out...
it was very contraversial because in the replays the punch was thrown before the bell rang.. but they let it stick and as a result he lost the Gold... was the first time I seen him fight and I told my Ex Wife at that time... this guy is going to be heavy weight champ someday.... not once but 3 times like Ali...
Sad thing is... Don King Owns him Now.....

Hog

Hog I remember that very clearly.

The croud was very loud, Evander didnt hear the bell, at least that was how it was precieved at the time. His last punch was said to be after the bell. His apponent, who won by disqualification, went on to win the gold. Evander won the Bronze. Evander was clearly the superior fighter.

That was very unfortunate. I really like Evander Holyfield. One of boxing's Greatest Warriors.

I believe he went on to beat Dwight Braxton(Mohammad Quowi) to win the Cruiser weight title. Later moved up to beat Tyson for the Heavyweight Title.

Good memory Hog!

Mag

I saw Marciano. It was a long time ago. He looked indestructible and had a punch that would stop a semi. I thought Tyson was going to be another Marciano, but something went terribly wrong with the lad.

LLT, that is really cool. Was it in person or closed circuit? In those days it usually wasnt on regular TV. It was on the radio or like I said closed circuit. Thats before PPV was even dreamed of.

Mag

Yes I do remember that one... that was during the time Evander was still coming up in the ranks as a heavyweight contender... dokes yes had about 30-40 pounds on him... man I wish I could find these fights ... I once rented the 84 olympic boxing fights on vhs or maybe it was the Beta tapes... I remember at that time we had both type players LoL... anyways my first vcr wouldn't record or I would have kept that one!!!! I have not found it since in rentel stores....
I did recently see the Ali movie and it brought back memories big time!!! My Dad used to Drink Allot... he was Abusive to my Mom and to us kids... he always told us boy's that if we ever lost a fight he would Kick our A$$'s himself... I was the Youngest of the 3 Boy's out of 6...I seen him beat my brothers and I always did my best to stear clear of him... then it became a game with my brothers and there friends to Instigate fights for me... there was a Family who lived up the Block.. they were Philipino... and Philip was my age... we used to play stick ball... and about every week Philip and I were beating the crap out of each other... Dad never found out about this but from my Bruises and stuff I always feared he knew... Only one time it was in my front yard we were going at it... and Phil had the best of me this time... well Dad pulled up... he sent philip packing and stomped my A$$ and grounded me for a month... it was Ok though to go out to Peoria Square Gardens and pay 10 bucks and enter me into the amiture golden glove fights... and when I lost... he would do the same... I always hated him for that... But to look back on it Now... it was my Dad's way of trying to raise us boy's up to face anything in our Lives...Phil Lives in California and He came back to visit in 1990 that was the last time I seen him... Boxing and losing money on the Cubs was a way of growing up in my world... LoL
Jack Dempsy... if not mentioned before was also a Great!!!
LL didn't marciano lose to Joe Louis? and that ended his carrier? not for sure??
Hog

Marciano won the title fron Jersey Joe Walcot, in 13 rnds. They had a rematch that went only 1 round.

Mag

The debate comparing fighters from different eras has raged on for a long, long time ... what if we COULD somehow see Dempsey, Louis, Wolcott, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Foreman, Frazier and Tyson all in their prime at the same time ... that'd be one hell of a series of matchups is all I can say.

Since we can't actually see it ... we'll just have to debate it to death ...

Thanks Mag... I couldn't remember... Grandpa and my Dad were always discussing/debating the Boxing when I was growing up LoL...

and SteveS that would be a Pay Per View that would pay off the War Debt and put a hell of a dent on the Deficit in this country!!!


ahh the Memories!!!

Hog

Cool Will do.. Thanks!!!

Hog

LLT, thanks for the info. It must have been very exciting!

Mag