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Last post 21 years ago by RICKAMAVEN. 21 replies replies.
Pledge of Allegiance Question?
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cwilhelmi Offline
#1 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 11:43 AM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
There have been many discussions here regarding the Pledge of Allegiance and the legal actions that have surrounded the "under God" phrase contained in the pledge. One fact that I wanted to bring up is that this phrase wasn't even in the original pledge written in 1892 by Francis Bellamy, it was added by congress in 1954.

http://history.vineyard.net//pledge.htm

Just wanted to see what you all think about this and how it impacts your views of people like myself who choose to leave that phrase out of the pledge.
C
usahog Offline
#2 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 11:44 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Why was it Added?

Hog
cwilhelmi Offline
#3 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 11:50 AM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Because the knights of columbus wrote a bill and congress passed it.
usahog Offline
#4 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 11:55 AM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Isn't that getting into the Issue of Seperation of Church and State???

Hog
cwilhelmi Offline
#5 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 11:59 AM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
yes, but it was a different time back then. Do you think a bill to remove it or add it(if it hadn't already been added) would pass today, I don't.

C
usahog Offline
#6 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 12:11 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Cwil, it is already in the works to do just that... I am not sure where I had seen this... maybe on the NAACP web site... but it was a couple months back....
go to Snopes.com (Thanks for that Link Spiny) and type it in and see if it will pull anything up on this....
I know some states have modified this... we discussed this awhile back...

Hog
SteveS Offline
#7 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 12:42 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
The phrase "under God" was added to the pledge to emphasize the differences between this country and the Soviet Union, an officially atheistic state.
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#8 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 4:31 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
SteveS

there is no such thing as an atheist.

the denial of "god" connotes there is a "god" to not believe in.
tailgater Offline
#9 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 5:46 PM EST
Joined: 06-01-2000
Posts: 26,185
The addition of the phrase brought America together.
The removal will do the opposite.

cwilhelmi Offline
#10 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 6:00 PM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
It will hurt the nation only because of the battle that will ensue. Having it in the pledge does nothing to make the nation better; it just makes people more comfortable in their beliefs since the government affirms them, even though it's contradictory to the constitution.
jgjam Offline
#11 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 6:56 PM EST
Joined: 05-16-2002
Posts: 909
The last I checked... a couple of minutes ago... my money as issued by the United States Government stated "In God We Trust"... now I don't know if the various currencies used during our history have always included this phrase. Does anyone know??

John
SteveS Offline
#12 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 6:59 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
Rick ...

In my second post in this thread, I tried to correct myself but might not have done so too well ... it is not free speech or difference of opinion that I'm against ... far from it ... you and I, for example, are friends, yet do not agree on any number of political issues ... each of us has the right to express our opinion and each has the right to disagree with the other ... neither of us has traveled to the capitol city of a country with whom the US was at war and there, posed with the military personnel of our enemy, admired their weaponry and spoken in strong negative terms about the US troops (such as saying in plain English that those troops were war criminals) ... that sort of action IS treasonous by definition and that person should have been charged and imprisoned, not honored and given awards after returning to the US ...

I might not understand the thinking of those who make what I see as clearly ridiculous claims that a war with Iraq (if it comes) is somehow "about oil" or "finishing daddy's business" ... the problems are as clear as they can be and the parallels between Saddam and Hitler are very apropos ... for the life of me, I do not understand how Marge Schott saying Hitler wasn't all bad ... look at the positive things he accomplished" (the Volkswagen, maybe?) caused her to be forced out of owning the Cincinnati Reds and no one called it free speech, yet there are seemingly no end to those who are claiming Saddam isn't all bad, despite the strong evidence that he is, if anything, worse by far than Hitler was ... one cannot find any trace of "positive" things to claim on his behalf ...
SteveS Offline
#13 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 7:04 PM EST
Joined: 01-13-2002
Posts: 8,751
In God We Trust has been on US coins since well before the turn of the last century, and perhaps since the beinning ... however, you might be surprised to learn that "In God We Trust" was added to the paper money during LBJ's administration ... not on the paper currency before then.

Joke at the time was that it was added to the paper money because the government under LBJ stopped backing the currency with silver and we were accepting the paper strictly on faith ...
usahog Offline
#14 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 7:46 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
for Cwil,
The separation of church and state

The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the 1st Amendment erected a "wall of separation" between the church and the state (James Madison said it "drew a line," but it is Jefferson's term that sticks with us today). The phrase is commonly thought to mean that the government should not establish, support, or otherwise involve itself in any religion, though it is more accurate to say that the 1st Amendment prohibits the government from establishing a national religion, and protects the individual's right to worship, or not worship, however the individual sees fit.

Hog
efm Offline
#15 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 8:12 PM EST
Joined: 01-23-2001
Posts: 499
We humans create God in our own image. Thus, God is whatever an individual says He/She/It/Them is (or isn't). God is an intangible concept. As for the Pledge, I think it's a charming and harmless tradition to add the words "under God". A few people take offense but you can't please everyone.
rayder1 Offline
#16 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 8:59 PM EST
Joined: 06-02-2002
Posts: 2,226
Frankly, if you are of the opinion that the phrase "Under God" should not be part of the pledge, then when it comes to that part....don't say it.

Easy, quick, no need to instill one's belief upon others. Just a personal statement, (or in this case omitment) to say you don't want to use the phrase.
E-Chick Offline
#17 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 9:11 PM EST
Joined: 06-15-2002
Posts: 4,877
God help us...
jd1 Offline
#18 Posted: Sun, Feb 23 2003, 9:21 PM EST
Joined: 02-14-2001
Posts: 3,118
Amen
Homebrew Offline
#19 Posted: Mon, Feb 24 2003, 11:34 AM EST
Joined: 02-11-2003
Posts: 11,885
SteveS
?????? "Saddam Worse than Hitler???????????????????
I believe that the jury is still out on that one.
Ask the Jews.
Homebrew
cwilhelmi Offline
#20 Posted: Mon, Feb 24 2003, 11:47 AM EST
Joined: 07-24-2001
Posts: 2,739
Homebrew - I would agree...
usahog Offline
#21 Posted: Mon, Feb 24 2003, 1:48 PM EST
Joined: 12-06-1999
Posts: 22,691
Yes Ask the Isreali's

but IMO he is Equalivent to Hitler...To Be Continued...

Hog
RICKAMAVEN Offline
#22 Posted: Mon, Feb 24 2003, 6:26 PM EST
Joined: 10-01-2000
Posts: 33,248
usahog

damn, you do know your stuff.
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